I know I'm new here, and my "subject" might offend some of you, but I need some Christian viewpoints here. My H has been addicted to porn for quite some time. We've never had a good marriage, and it just gets worse and worse. I could give details, but that's not the point of this post. We've done counseling, and it has only produced temporary short-term changes. Recently, my pastor (who counseled us once, although my H doesn't go to church) approached me and asked me how things were going. I gave him an up-date, and he told me that since my H continues to be addicted to internet porn, and that I am neglected sexually in the mean time - up to 10 months at a time - that I have a Biblical basis for divorce. Please don't think I'm just trying to jump ship and get out of a terrible marriage. I'd like to think it would work, but H has proven time and time again that he is not really willing to change. And my pastor is one of those people who does not suggest divorce readily - he goes strictly by the Bible. I was very shocked when he told me that he believed I had a Biblical basis for divorce. Since pornography is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, I do believe that it is something that has to be studied and it becomes an "interpretation." Other thoughts/insights appreciated.

Isn't adultery of any kind an OK reason for D with most churches? I don't necessarily think it means you should D though, just that it's ok if that's what you want.

MAEZY<BR>Yes, adultery is grounds for divorce in most churches. But I don't know if most churches would think that pornography (even to this extreme) is equivalent to adultery. I do know that when I found out about it, I was crushed and felt that it was equivalent. It's been quite some time since I found out, and it doesn't really hurt anymore...but the love has been gone for years. And I don't know that I want divorce, but at this point, I think it would be best for the kid - I know that's hard to believe, but what the kid is seeing and hearing now is much worse than divorce. I'm struggling with all of it.<BR>So Very Confused

You do have biblical ground, I agree, yes. Does that mean you have to? No. It says many many things in the bible on marriage and divorce and infidelity, I studied them intently while I was going through my worst times. Yes, looking upon another woman to lust after her is infidelity, in my book I don't see where it says that means it has to be someone in the same room, it's just that when that was written the technology wasn't there to take pictures and live video feeds into the phrasing.<P>I highly doubt if Jesus were here today he would say, oh, it's ok to have a stack of Hustlers and cyber sex. BUT, I know many disagree with me on this. If your H is neglecting you sexually for almost a year at a time, there is definitely a problem there. Do you divorce? Tough call, and strictly your choice. I don't think anyone would say they blame you if you did, but then again, the savior very much is in favor of keeping our commitments too. If you can find it inside yourself to try to work through this and make it through it and make your marriage better, it would be to your credit too.<P>My first question is, does your H wish to change? Willing to try to change? Getting couseling currently? Are you willing, able to wait until he does? Is your love for him still strong enough to keep fighting?<P>As someone elquently stated recently, you can be right, or you can be married. Sometimes being right is not always as important a reward in the end. You know your H and your situation best. If you decide to stay commited, we can help you here with support, advice and encouragement while you try to push down what is definitely the tougher field to plow. If not, there is support, advice and encouragement for you on the divorced/divorcing board.<P>Either way, this board can be tons of help, and I encourage you to use it, it helps alot. The choice to make the commitment or not though, that is most definitely the place to start, and it is your decision. Do let us know what you decide, and if you have any other details you would like to share, you might be surprised to find out you are not the only one who has gone through this. There is a wide wealth of wisdom and experience here.<P>

<"And I don't know that I want divorce, but at this point, I think it would be best for the kid - I know that's hard to believe, but what the kid is seeing and hearing now is much worse than divorce. "><P>This scared me. we must have been posting at the same time. If there is any type of sexual abuse going on, run don't walk to the lawyers and get out now. I hope that is not what you are saying.<P>

Scriptural D because of Pornography is Bible based. <P>Matt 5: 27 & 28 - "You heard that it was said, 'You must not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."<P>Pretty plain to me. <P>L.<BR>

Even though you may be religious, and your hubby is not. Can he not respect the home? Why can he not view this kind of material at work? Or could it be that he may get fired for something like this? Most workplaces do not tolerate this behavior. So why should you? If it makes you feel uncomfortable, he should respect you. Just like there are people who smoke, or drink, or whatever. He can have the common courteous not to do this. He needs to find some other hobby or do it at work.

Oh, SVC...<P>I empathize. To know that he is looking at a woman who is not you and feeling what you want him to feel for you...or do you?<P>My first marriage, I went ballistic when the whole porn issue came UP.<P>I humiliated, I belittled, I cut down.<P>A few years later, and perhaps more mellow, I came to a different point of view.<P>He looks at this woman. He does not have to come home to her. He does not have to pick up his clothes for her. He does not have to support any EN for this woman. She is a face. She is a body. She is not human, not to him. He has no responsibility for this picture, this MPEG, AVI, etc. Do you really want what he feels then for her for you?<P>Can I admit the second time I was still upset? However, I attacked it differently...I flooded his email with the most graphic images I could find on the web to desensitize him.<P>Was this right? I don't/didn't know.<P>Did we come to the point in conversation where I could ask him if this kind of woman was the kind he would have birth his children and stay by his side? <P>Yes. <P>And he said, no. I was right. This was only an image to whom he had no connection. About whom he could think whatever he wanted.<P>Is it adultry? <P>Does it feel like adultry? <P>Worse. Known demons can be battled on level fields.<P>Without airbrushing and liposuction and collagen injections...is the field level?<P>No...far from it.<P>I do not sit in moral judgement, however. All must make peace in own houses.<P>I feel for you, SVC. <P>I hope you come to a place where you are comfortable with or without the porn. <P>I have been to both places and cannot tell you where is better. Both have their own merits.<P>Many Hugs.<BR>LibbyDoe

Hello Confused,<BR>Forgive me. I don't know your whole story so I hope that I don't come on too strong. I need to back up a little bit and ask you how you, a Christian, ended up married to a non-Christian. Did you become a Christian after you got married or did you knowingly marry an unsaved person? Just wondering.<P>Because my thoughts regarding your situation slightly differ, depending on your answer. IF you both were non-Christians when you married, then your husband is sanctified by living with you and his salvation could depend on your patience (willingness to endure), and prayers and lifestyle as God's representative in his life.<P>IF you were God's kid prior to getting married and you knowingly married one of the enemy's kids, someone with opposing values or no values, then basically you set yourself up for a disaster. Still, there's hope for you. There is always hope in our living God. <P>If your husband is fine with staying, then everything I said above still applies. You might be the only godly example that ever will mean anything in your husband's life.<P>Forget about sex for a minute and consider his eternal salvation. If he has a change of heart, then the porn will go. The porn will go away because his conscience will come alive. As someone who is basically governed and controlled by evil forces, he is just doing what comes naturally to a non-believer. There's nothing to be shocked about regarding his behavior. BUT, if he has a change of heart, then God's character will be imparted to him and your marriage can be healed from the inside out.<P>Are you willing to stand in the gap between GOD and your husband? His eternal soul depends on your willingness to stand up to the circumstances in this case and take authority over your home. I'm not saying that everything will be perfect overnight, in fact, it might get worse. But if you change your attitude, the whole climate in your home could change. If you take your Christian stand, and choose to walk in love, then half the battle is won. The rest is up to God! Keep the faith!

SVC,<P>I understand what you are feeling. I have been down the pornography road myself. <P>The word adulterate means: To make impure by adding improper or inferior ingredients.<P>Your H is making your marriage impure by adding pornography. What you choose to do with this is strictly up to you. I do believe however, that you can make him see that what he is doing is wrong. <P>I read a book called An Affair of the Mind by Laurie Hall. I found it at a christian bookstore. It is about her fight against the devastation of pornography on her family. <BR>The book states that men that look at pornography find it a rush. The longer they look at it the more desensitized they become. The more desensitized they become the more graphic it has to be to get the rush. <P>I have read alot about porn since my d-day. My h started out surfing porn on the net without my knowledge. Having it emailed to him by co-workers and searching it out himself. He ended up having cybersex with the OW. Nude pics were exchanged by both. He considered this to be the same as looking at pornography. I beg to differ. The proverbial sh-t hit the fan! He told me that he would have never gone any farther than he did. I told him that 2 years ago he wouldn't have believed he would be doing what he was doing. He agreed. I think that porn destroys the minds of men. They look at women differently. It horrified me to know that my h could look at a pic of a nude woman and not see a living, breathing human being.<P>Read the book that I have spoke of. I read it and I also read parts of it out loud to my H. He says that he never thought about it the way she explains it in the book. He now says he will never look at it again. I'm not sure if I believe him. Time will tell.<P>Good luck and God Bless<P>NM

SVC,<P>I understand what you are feeling. I have been down the pornography road myself. <P>The word adulterate means: To make impure by adding improper or inferior ingredients.<P>Your H is making your marriage impure by adding pornography. What you choose to do with this is strictly up to you. I do believe however, that you can make him see that what he is doing is wrong. <P>I read a book called An Affair of the Mind by Laurie Hall. I found it at a christian bookstore. It is about her fight against the devastation of pornography on her family. <BR>The book states that men that look at pornography find it a rush. The longer they look at it the more desensitized they become. The more desensitized they become the more graphic it has to be to get the rush. <P>I have read alot about porn since my d-day. My h started out surfing porn on the net without my knowledge. Having it emailed to him by co-workers and searching it out himself. He ended up having cybersex with the OW. Nude pics were exchanged by both. He considered this to be the same as looking at pornography. I beg to differ. The proverbial sh-t hit the fan! He told me that he would have never gone any farther than he did. I told him that 2 years ago he wouldn't have believed he would be doing what he was doing. He agreed. I think that porn destroys the minds of men. They look at women differently. It horrified me to know that my h could look at a pic of a nude woman and not see a living, breathing human being.<P>Read the book that I have spoke of. I read it and I also read parts of it out loud to my H. He says that he never thought about it the way she explains it in the book. He now says he will never look at it again. I'm not sure if I believe him. Time will tell.<P>Good luck and God Bless<P>NM

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but I've been having a problem with my internet connection, and getting into the Forum. Thank you all for your replies. I'm going to try to answer all of your questions. First of all, my H claims to be a Christian, but there is absolutely no "fruit." To give you an idea of how far he's gone, when we got married, he had thoughts of becoming a preacher. He would still say he is a Christian but won't even go to church because he doesn't want to be a "hypocrite." Any of you have any idea how hard it is to answer a six-year-old's question: "Why doesn't daddy come to church with us?"<P>There is no child abuse; at least not physical. I guess it would depend how you feel about a father hanging up (on the phone) on his son...telling me and his son to "just get out of the house," and since he knows I'm considering divorce, asking his six-year-old son if he wants daddy to move out or if he wants a "new" daddy. He does say most of this "in anger" but to me there is just no excuse for the behavior.<P>We did counseling - with two different counselors - two years ago. He made minor, temporary changes. After now 15 years of marriage, I'm getting tired of all of it. Although he denies it, he is a very controlling person, and can't handle the fact that I am no longer under his control. I finally admitted to myself that I no longer loved him two years ago, and that's when we first did counseling. Now we are to the point that he no longer loves me. He is willing to do counseling again, but I really see no point in it. It didn't last before, why should I believe it will last this time? And I believe he quit the porn for about a year or so, but I believe it started back up again about 9 months ago.<P>And he can spend all the time he wants on the internet at work because he owns his own business - and spends many a night there. He does not view it at home - at least not anymore.<P>When I first learned about the porn, I felt very belittled and humiliated. I am no beauty queen, but most people would say I'm attractive; I'm not at all overweight, and I try to take care of myself. He complains that I don't initiate, so for six months, I initiated, but he never did. Before two years ago, I has rejected many a time, and initiation is a scary thing. He, on the other hand, was rejected only occasionally, and that would have been only when I was really sick.<P>And I know I have never "competed" with another woman, but to me the porn is worse. I cannot compete; I do not need lipsuction, I do not want breast implants, and I am happy with the way I appear (okay, so I'd like to lose 5 pounds, but most people think I'm nuts to want to lose that). But he can access these women on the internet 24 hours a day, and evidently, he enjoys them more than he does me. Even though there is no love there, it still hurts. He even told me this weekend that I was boring in the sex area - maybe I am - I don't know - but I do know that the porn he views can surely make me appear boring, even if I'm not.<P>I even asked him about switching internet providers to prevent it, and he wasn't wiling since the internet provider is a client. Sounds like a good excuse to me. Then he said maybe if I "gave" something first, he might; but that's been a big part of our problems. I've given for years, and he's given almost nothing in return - a typical giver/taker scenario.<P>Hurting and Still Very Confused

Hi there,<BR>I'm so sorry you and your son are going through this.<P>This is only my opinion and thoughts but usually when someone is heavily addicted to porn, then masturbation is very much in the picture. You can find some Harley articles on this site that will give you more insight on how interconnected porn is with masturbation and it could explain his sexual 'weirdness' for lack of a better word.<P>Consider yourself hugged. Your husband sounds like he needs a lot of prayer and it's nothing to be discouraged about because prayer changes things and prayer changes people. Keep the faith!<P>If my kid(s) wondered why daddy didn't go to church with us, I would just say "I don't know, honey?!" Then I would ask them to come on and let's pray for daddy that he would have a desire for more of God in his heart. Then leave the rest up to God. It won't be your problem any more, it will be God's problem. Then just try not to say anything negative about your husband to your son no matter how bad you may feel. You're going to make it!

Get out and get out quick... Your pastor obviously has seen the big picture and is probably experienced enough to realize that you both are just not compatible. You can never change someone, he has to learn to change for himself. He probably doesn't see anything wrong with what he's doing and in his own mind has justified his doings. It is also apparent that you are not sexually compatible. He has an appetite that only someone in his level could satisfy and you will never lower yourself to that, and should not have to. Just let him go, the faster you start the D, the faster you start the healing...Good luck. ~FLgal~

BINthereDunthat,<P>Thanks for the hug, I needed that. I agree with everything you've said, but I don't think I can do that anymore. It's gone on for too long. I posted under a new topic last night because I stopped by his office (he wasn't there) and found his porn computer media file. I was, and still am, appalled by what I saw.<P>FLgal,<P>Your words are exactly how I'm feeling right now. <P>SVC<p>[This message has been edited by So Very Confused (edited July 16, 2001).]