I'd lke to know your opinion.<P>When a person lies for years to another person, their spouse and really no one else, and they "move on" to another person (Significant Other) ... does their lieing stop. IOW, do they only find it necessary to lie because of the dynamics between themselves and a specific person? OR ... is it something IN THEM that carries to every significant other relationship? <P>Jo<P><P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

IMO, they will lie to them too. If not now - later anyway.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

I think that lying is a bad habit that can become a character flaw.<BR>I do think that a person who lies can change with a certain amount of effort. <BR>I know people though, who lie so much that it becomes second nature. They end up believing their own lies.

My husband is the WS. I never thought I would have to deal with a husband that lies. He still lies to me to this day. You wonder how they think the BS can be so stupid. I would love for my WS husband to be honest with me and start the path of trust. As long as they lie there will be no trust. Going through counseling with Jennifer Harley, the lies hurt so much, and they will continue until they have made the committment to start on their marriage. My husband has not, he still is communicating with the OW. Therefore, he is a habitual lier every day. This hurts, and I feel there is no hope at this time. I live hour to hour, wondering what lie will be placed before me and what I should do about it deep inside. The hurt and pain are so severe, I would love to trust my H, but as of today there is no trust. Lieing is a sort of way of not dealing with every day living. It is a cop out for them, they seem to feel secure in their lies, and there is no remorse. I hope to God, I will never do this or be like this.

Amen, Thinker. You just wrote out my thoughts exactly. My answer was short and sweet above, but I could just ditto you exactly. thanks <P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

I understand there are people who lie just for the sake of lying. I think maybe too much is made of ws lying. I can only speak for myself, but the reason is not so complicated. I lie to avoid confrontation. If I was certain my bs would not get angry, sad, or interfere, I would tell the truth.

My H never outright lied to me until his A. There were small lies of omission that I would discover...but never the blatant...I must have STUPID written on my forehead...ones he told the last two months.<P>That is part of why I knew his A could NOT last long, nor could he remain 'in love' with OW for long. She is a liar, a manipulator, a cheat and has been for A LONG time. (I think that she has had 4 marriages is telling.) <P>I also knew my H could not live with himself for long if he continued lying...it was toooooo out of character...<P>So I guess I am saying that the depth of the character of the person is what you have to look at more than the lies....for some it is part of their character...for others it is the dynamics of the situation.<P><BR>Cali

Hi Jo,<P>When spouses lie...... well, if they weren't good liars when they were with us, then the OP certainly help them become better at something.... lying. My H is a very bad liar, that was one of his outstanding characteristics. That also was one of his A downfalls. OW tried so hard to get him to lie to us (me especially), yet demanded that he be truthful only to her. YUCK!!!! The result? He lied to both of us. All of us and even himself. But he could not live with that constant lying and living in fear of getting caught. <P>So would they continue to lie with the OP? Why not? It was one of their favorite passtimes? How to lie is covered in Fogese 1A. The very beginning of the A book. How to become a better liar in just 1 A. Personal 1 on 1 training by the OP. Can be learned over the internet, on the phone, in hotels, on voicemail accounts, letters, secret P.O. Boxes, you name it the OP will find you. Hm.... we tell our kids to watch who they are associating with, what about our spouses? <P>Probably the hardest one to lie to is the spouse. It is easier to lie to the OP. The OP should expect it but they usually act shocked. You know they have relationship with the OP built on that funny kind of trust. Hm?!?!?!<P>L.<BR>

1 corinthians 15:33<BR>bad company corrupts good character<P>at first i saw om as the bad company corrupting W to lie to me, but i am beginning to see that they are corrupting each other, living in the fog and their little fantasy world trying to justify their actions so that they can carry on in their sin. i guess this is part of being the BS. my W is such a bad lier that she had to move 1200 miles away to avoid looking into my eyes when she fabricates her stories. i feel like i'm starting to get bitter, i'd better stop, i love my W and want to see this family reconciled and restored.<P>

I'm not so sure if you can actually separate a LIAR from their LIES. It would be like trying to separate an ADULTERER from ADULTERY, or someone who STEALS from being called a THIEF.<P>I firmly believe what we do does not make us who we are, because people can truly repent and turn away from their sins, but at the same time, it is very difficult to believe anyone whose actions do not align with their gestures.<P>Character is what we do the 3rd and 4th times...

sad_n_lonely,<P>You said, <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If I was certain my bs would not get angry, sad, or interfere, I would tell the truth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So are you saying you lie to protect yourself from discomfort, and from not being able to do what you want do do? I must say that sounds rather selfish. <P>What is so awful about having someone angry at you? Certainly it is not fun, but how can it be worse than the guilt induced by lying? Several months ago I told a stranger who came to look at something that I was selling that my H was away on business, because I didn't feel comfortable having him know that I was living there alone with the kids - and I still feel a bit guilty about that. I have never lied to my H, my kids, or my parents - I don't think I would ever get over the guilt. <P>If I had a dollar for everytime my kids were angry with me, I would be richer than Bill Gates. I would much rather have someone angry at me than have them lie to me or try to hide their anger. I would much rather know where they stand. What is so terrible about confrontation? Sometimes I wonder why it is that my son is a conflict avoider, while my 5 daughters are not, as a rule. As a matter of fact, some of them go out of their way to create conflict. <P>My son, who has also lied to avoid confrontation, has admitted that when someone is angry at him he believes that at that moment they do not love him. Nothing I can say will convince him otherwise. Is this a common belief of conflict avoiders, that anger can not coexist with love?

The reason to lie is to avoid confrontation! What happened to standing up to what you have earned, if it is reprimand - take it, if it is saddness - accept what you have done is going to make your spouse unhappy as well as the family, as far as angry - being a WS is going to cause bad feelings and why shouldn't it the BS isn't going to be happy for your unfaithfulness, as far as interfere - why not, the WS didn't have any remorse about interfering with their family seeing a parent having a lover outside of their marriage.<P>As far as the OW, in my case, she is not telling her husband she had an affair with my husband. Talk about the OW<BR>telling a lie. Is that the type of person a WS wants to have in their lives? Someone who cannot have the guts to tell their spouse they are having an affair? Someone who cannot own up to their own failures? <P>In the long run, GOD knows who is lieing and who is being hurt and having to live every day in pure H***!

"I lie to avoid confrontation, if spouse wouldn't get angry i would tell the truth". B*&$S(&)! You lie because it sounds better to you, to believe that you and OW are just victims of circumstance, instead of 2 people in a fantasy and don't want any outsiders to tell you that your so called "true love" is based on nothing but dirty talk via phone, and/or email to keep the fantasy going. If you and OW told your spouses the truth and were finally able to be together, you wouldn't last beyond 2 years!

My H is the WS and quite good at lying. I believe lying is a way of life for him.<P>My H's grandmother said these words to me about 6 months before we married: "if you can get past the lies you'll do okay"! I was so blind. I knew my H had told little lies to me, but never did I think lies about infidelity would ever be something we'd deal with.<P>I never pressed this woman, but since she said it I'd have to say the lies will continue no matter who they're with.<P>I did ask my H this a couple weeks ago, if it was just ME, and he said no, it's him and he would have done it to anyone he was with. Oh joy! <P> <BR><P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>

I agree with everyone above and do not want to repeat them. I do want to say that the lies will not end, you are a different person than the last, however he is the same person. What compells a person to lie is not the person they are with, but something within themselves.<P>It is like having an affair with a married person. What makes you think, they will not do it to you down the road? Your chances of survival together without lies and infidelity are less than 5%.

Lying is an addiction as bad as any other. My mom has always being a lier, she used to have us cover for her for stuff she would lie to my dad about. Now I find myself doing the same thing and though is very sad... is very very difficult to overcome. Granted is, some times we just lie to stay out of trouble, but there are instances where I just lie out of the blue just because I am so used to it.<BR>It's a very bad thing, but to answer your question: yes your spouse will continue to lie unless he/she really really admits to how wrong this is and puts a lot of effort into changing. Hope this helps, Lady Dante

Thank you for your responses.<P>I have been struggling with images that my relationship with my H caused him to lie. That I may have not made it a safe place to tell the truth. I don't know what I could have done differently. As I look back, it seems that he had been lieing quite a bit, and I think he'd say it was to "keep the peace". I use to tell him that there were several reasons he shouldn't lie, I told him when you lie to someone they base their decisions on those lies and are eventually dissapointed. He would say that he "HAD" to lie because the truth would hurt me too much, and I'd say "then quit doing things that would hurt me". Obviously this fell on deaf ears.<P>My intentions for this thread was not to cause anyone more heartache or start a controversy, I just wanted to hear from you all on whether or not you believed lieing was something engrained in the person, or if you thought it was a relationship dynamic.<P>My instincts tell me my H will deceive and lie to his OW, altho I hoped he would have learned something from the many years of lieing to me, knowing it caused so much pain and strife in our lives, and ultimately he was never really successful because eminently the truth always did come out and I was always hurt two fold (Lies and the Deed he tried to cover up).<P>Thank you again for your help. I'd still like to hear from more of you out there (K, Tootrusting, Buffy, WAT, WhoDat ... etc???)<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 20, 2001).]

Just dropping in from the pregnancy/child board.<P>I know that everyone lies little lies all the time. "Oh I like your new hair cut." "No thanks, no more lasagne for me. I'm full" when what you really mean is it was horrible.<P>But at some point, somehow you cross a line where the lies are no longer innocent, they become the basest form of manipulation. When my H did not tell me the truth of his A and let it go on for 7 years, he manipulated me into staying with him. I think that such lies of such magnitude are a form of abuse. He took away my right to make fully-informed decisions about my life. If he had had the courage to tell me of his A, we might have been able to end it together before it ended in the tragedy of a child born of the affair and $20,000 worth of child support a year for the next 18 years of our lives.<P>Mrs. Job