Here is my current situation. My H has finally started counseling and goes again on Thursday for his 2nd appointment. He is in the process of getting tested for bipolar disorder, which I am sure he has.<P>He tells me that he just wants to be by himself for a while and go get counseling. He has 4 weeks before OW comes back, so he believes he doesn't have to make any decisions about her before that. He is not in contact with her, but he is also not NOT in contact with her, so pretty much he is free to do what he wants during this time. OW is currently 5 hours drive away, but that doesn't mean anything as far as I'm concerned.<P>I told him, I cannot wait for him any longer. I need to feel protected, he needs to protect me. He said he didn't understand. I explained that I need protection from OW to know they are not getting back together in September and protection that they are not in contact now. He just didn't answer. Even though he told me the other day they are "definately over", now apparently he is having mixed feelings again. He doesn't know what he wants.<P>I don't know what to do. On the one hand I try to understand what H is going through. He's trying to deal with the fact that he has bipolar disorder, which in itself is a total roller coaster ride. He's trying to deal with the horrible things he has done and the pain he has caused, and he has this OW that is thrown into the mix, confusing things even more. He is finally going to get help, dealing with his disorder, and there is a good chance of no contact between him and OW while he is in therapy for that month. He has actually set this as his timeline for figuring out what he wants.<P>So, I should be happy, right? Yeah, he is finally getting the help he so desperately needs. 2x a week at that (you know there has to be a problem if they let him go twice a week). But, I'm not. I can't plan A because he just doesn't give me what I need, he won't completely end contact with OW. <P>I can't plan B because he is a master at getting me to break it and I am weak, I suppose. I try to set up visitation and he just says he can't because his schedule changes so often and he says that in reality if we were to divorce then he wouldn't have a visitation schedule, we would be on civil terms for the kids and we could work around his schedule so he could see them when he wanted. Everything I do in plan B is seen as an LB to him. He says, I am making this all about me because I am trying to get him to commit and end it with OW before I'll be there for him.<P>It's like if I'm not there for him he takes it as this huge LB, but he says he's fine with it and it doesn't bother him. I mention divorce and how much I don't want it, but he isn't giving me anything to feel like it is worth trying, and he just says I'm threatening him and if I recall he's the one that wanted a divorce in the first place.<P>UGH. So, I don't know what to do. Plan B just makes him mad and makes him think I am abandoning him. It makes him think I am using the kids against him because I am trying to enforce a visitation schedule. And, all I keep thinking is, he's finally going to counseling, the couselor will make him realize what he is doing, the counselor will get him to go on medication and get help for his disorder, so I should wait it out and see what happens.<P>BTW, this all happened in our conversation yesterday when he called me at work to find out if our daughter had this certain N64 game... He says he only called to talk about her so it was okay.<P>Tell me again why I should wait and keep trying to do plan B instead of filing.<P>Those with bipolar, can you help me understand what he must be feeling inside right now and why I should wait to see if he gets help for his problem? I know the whole world is spinning and he just can't make it stop no matter what he does. Ups and downs all the time, no control, so he tries to get control through me. He tells me yesterday that he keeps thinking of the good times we had and he wants them back, but then he thinks of the bad times and it makes him want to run...<P>I've been thinking alot about that. I honestly cannot think of any REALLY bad times. I mean, I really think he's talking about his lows or voids that he would have. The depressed part of his bipolar. I try to think back, and the only bad times was when he would start to get depressed for seemingly no reason, it would get worse and worse, he would emotionally abuse me, then poof it's better. I have to believe this is what he's talking about and the counselor will make him realize where the bad times came from. <P>I really need help trying to figure out what I can change as well. I try and try, but so much revolved around his bipolar that I don't even know anymore what I was doing that upset him. I have asked for a list but he has yet to give it to me.

Hi there-<P>I know all about Bipolar, so if you have specific questions or want advice about it, I'd be more than happy to help you out.<P>Feel free to post and I will get back to you ASAP.<P>AmyZ

amyz,<P>What EXACTLY is bipolar and what are the symptoms? I am very curious! The things hurtbyhubby posted about her H. sound alot like my H. and I have been wondering about bipolar....<P>Thanks!

HbH:<P>You are facing a double whammy here. Not only must you counter an affair (via Plan A), you have to deal with your H's mood swings. A very, very difficult proposition.<P>My exW is bipolar. It was a huge factor in her having affairs, and after discover, a huge factor in her not seeking help nor desiring to work on recovering the marriage (and all this happened <I>before</I> I knew about MB and Dr. Harley's work).<P>So, in addition to your Plan A and marital counseling, it is imperative that he get professional help for this condition.<P>For those not familiar with Bipolar Affective Disorder, below are some links on the topic, but first (courtesy of MSN) a definition of the condition:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A mood disorder characterized by mood swings from mania (exaggerated feeling of well-being) to depression.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>MSN: <A HREF="http://content.health.msn.com/content/asset/adam_disease_manic_depressive_illness" TARGET=_blank>http://content.health.msn.com/content/asset/adam_disease_manic_depressive_illness</A> <BR>Psychiatry 24x7 <A HREF="http://www.psychiatry24x7.com/education/detail.jhtml;jsessionid=DQTUVOSX5PU4LQFIBYHSF3Q?key=nonprofbackbip015" TARGET=_blank>http://www.psychiatry24x7.com/education/detail.jhtml;jsessionid=DQTUVOSX5PU4LQFIBYHSF3Q?key=nonprofbackbip015</A> <BR>Mayo Clinic <A HREF="http://www.mayohealth.org/home?id=5.1.1.2.14" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mayohealth.org/home?id=5.1.1.2.14</A> <P>Hope these help. For even more links, do a Web search using bipolar disorder as the search topic.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

H is blaming you for his affair, you are blaming H for your not being able to stick to a Plan B. Something's got to be done, except giving each other excuses of why I can't and why I won't. It does seem you are forcing your H to hurry up and chose you or else. You are getting frustrated because he isn't making a decision before the OW returns to town. You feel you can't continue Plan A because you are angry at H for not doing what you wanted HOW you wanted. You can't do a Plan B because it upsets your H. Seem's like a lot of need for Control to me. Nothing is wrong with that, we all want to control what seems to be out of control, we all want the OLD WAY of life back, when everything felt comfortable. But you can't have it both way's. Either you are Plan A'ing and taking care of you in the process, or you are in Plan B there are no in between's.

If your H is able to keep appointments with others then he is able to keep appointments (visitations) for your children. It is a matter of whether he chooses to make this of the same or more important priority. My H also said, he had a variable schedule. This is true but he was able to keep appointments with many others. The fact that he used this as an excuse became just that, an excuse. <P>Let your H know that you are aware of his schedule but that he does have the ability to keep appointments. IMHO, this reason is an excuse your H is using (knowing or unknowing to him) that he is trying to manipulate you. My H said virtually the same thing. <P>So I presented to my H that if his child was important he would make the time to see them (make an appointment) just as if he needed to go to the doctor, meet with his boss, finish his work, whatever else was important enough into scheduling for the day. Hm.....even more than his 'appointments with OW'. <P>HbH, learn to recognize when your H needs help vs his manipulations and 'lovingly' bring it to his attention that you are aware that his particular action is being viewed as manipulation not a legitimate problem. This may be hard to do at first, comes easier over time. <P>L. <BR>

Hey, Guys--<P>Bipolar DO is typically characterized by manic episodes with alternating depressive episodes. It typically has an onset prior to 30 yo. During manic episodes, people may engage in risk-taking activities (sexual promiscuity, gambling, drinking, drugging, stealing, et...), need little to no sleep, have a ton of energy, have an elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, flight of ideas, inflated self-esteem, grandiosity, distractibility. During a a depressive episode, the person generally acts as one who is clinically depressed--lots of sleep, little appetite, apathy, lethargy, etc...<P>It is important to note that these episodes can comingle with one another and that people may be rapid cyclers. Also to note is that there is a very large genetic loading for Bipolar. If someone is truly Bipolar, it is likely that they have a relative with the same DO.<P>Hope this helps.<P>AmyZ

I am bipolar. I never had an affair during my marriage. My alcoholic husband chose to run amok, then blamed my moods on his behavior. That's bullhockey because I take care of myself, stay with my meds, go to counseling and support groups, and see my pdoc every month. I worked my butt off to save my marriage, but not even marital counseling could untie the knots of deceit that ruined our relationship. <P>I instituted an emergency Plan B due to all the rancor and contentiousness between us. It was the only way I could have any peace. It was hard getting this started, and it's still hard to maintain this plan, but I do it. I suffer immeasurably, but I know all too well that rollercoaster we rode in our marriage was a lot worse than any lone BP trip I will ever take. Plan B, done textbook fashion, may be just the thing for your husband. He'll crash big-time without his codependent "supports" in place. He'll either straighten up and come back, or he'll maintain his distorted thinking and go to the OW. We all want to preserve our marriage. As painful as it is, sometimes we're better off clearing away our own fog than waiting for the WS to do the right thing. Most of us can't wait that long.<P>In perspective, bipolar is my normal. I don't have bipolar; I am bipolar. When I am not under the horrible stress and strain of a failed marriage or a difficult job, it makes me a rather fun and affable person. It brings me copious amounts of creativity, and I can write artful stories and poetry at will. It is sometimes called a disorder of the intelligent because so many sufferers were notably gifted and talented like Edgar Allen Poe, Emily Dickinson, Axl Rose, Ernest Hemmingway, Curt Cobain, Burgess Meredith, Patty Duke, and Virginia Woolf. <P>If you do any research, you will see that there are several different types of bipolar, with types I, II, and rapid cycling the most common. Type I is the smallest, but most manic group because of their aberrant and sometimes psychotic behavior. Type II bipolar is the largest group, sometimes called the silent sufferers. They are depressed for the most part, with occasional bouts of mild mania. Rapid cyclers can go through many manic/depressed phases in a month, week, day, or hour. The depression that many bipolar people go through IS clinical depression in every sense of the diagnosis. They are at an extreme risk for suicide, having an alarming success rate. They also have a high divorce rate along with substance abuse and alcoholism.<P>Bipolar is not curable, but it is very, very treatable. Lots of type I's love their mania so much they are noncompliant with their meds and treatment. This is problematic in a marriage. It takes a special person to live with a bipolar spouse. My husband complained bitterly that I did not accept him for who he was. Now that I'm nearing divorce court, I see the projection is actually reversed. He could not cope with the needs I worked so hard to keep in check, that I guess it was easier for him to make his claim. <P>Please don't pigeonhole us in what you read as typical characteristics or deviate activities. I guarantee you meet people every day who are bipolar, but you would never know it. Bipolars are extremely sensitive, and we are aware enough of ourselves to keep our actions in check. If you talk to anybody with a disability, handicap, or crippling disorder, they will tell you how much they want to be normal, just like anybody else. There are support groups for bipolars as well as their SO's.<P>Nell

Thank you Nell, I have no doubt that someone with bipolar DO that is on treatment (as yourself), is no different than anyone else out there. One of my good friends is also bipolar (just found out due to H's problems)and I treat him with the utmost respect. <P>My H has gone to the counselor and was told he has "frequent bouts of depression", and the counselor is sure he does not have type I bipolar. The counselor says it is normal for people to feel like this. I disagree and tend to think the counselor is just buttering him up so as not to scare him away. Once the counselor finds out the truth, I don't see how he can classify his depressive episodes as "normal". I already knew he did not have type I, but my husband felt a need to come tell me so I would know he "wasn't crazy". So stereotypical... I wish he would just read and get some research on it.<P>The counselor is still undergoing tests and won't make a diagnosis for sometime (or he already has and my husband just isn't telling me yet for fear I will blab to everyone that he is CRAZY). So stupid. <P>I am just glad he is getting help. I mean, even if it's not bipolar, he still have frequent bouts of depression, which needs treatment in itself, and which I still think is classiified as a mental DO (although I better not tell my H that or he will RUN and stop going to counseling for fear he is crazy)...<P>Thank you all for this information and help. Nell, I have the utmost respect for you and am sorry that your husband has chosen to treat you with such little respect. <hugs><P>HbH

Nell/et al.:<P>Maintaining yourself via medication is the most effective way of dealing with this disorder. It is when the condition is not addressed that behavior patterns become erratic; with often spectacular mood swings.<P>As an example: My exW (four years before our divorce) and I were enjoying a pleasant talk and watching a football game together (a pastime we both enjoyed sharing). She asked me to make her a cup of tea during a commercial break.<P>I walked to the kitchen (15 feet ... approx. 10 secs.), got a tea bag, placed it in a mug of hot water (approx. 30 secs.), nuked it (1 minute 35 seconds on the microwave), added sugar (10 seconds), and returned with her tea (10 seconds). Total elapsed time: a little more than 2 and a half minutes; the commercials were still on.<P>As I handed her the tea, she began ranting and screaming at me, cursing and making vile statements. A total personality change! Something had flipped her bipolar switch.<P>Shortly after, I convinced her to see her doctor (manic depression and alcoholism are common in her family). She went and was eventually diagnosed as being bipolar. However, after a half-hearted attempt to use medications, she gave up ... long before the doctors could come up with an effective treatment protocol.<P>The children and I spent the next four years walking on eggshells around her, never sure when she would "freak out" again or what would trigger it.<P>As her children and I pulled back from her, she sensed that, and it sent her into a bigger downward spiral. One that saw her begin drinking excessive amounts, become addicted to gambling, and eventually drug use as well, and ultimately into a series of affairs to seek the love she felt she was no longer getting at home.<P>Effective treatment is very important. Had she sought the proper treatment, the erratic behavior, the impact on the children, and ultimately the divorce, would most likely not have happened.<P>Prior to the onset of Bipolar Affective Disorder, we had a model marriage: friends, family and acquaintances were amazed by how rock-solid, loving and giving it was. They were as shocked as I as her behavior manifested itself in destructive ways.<P>So, to make a long story short: it is very, very important to seek help for those who suffer this malady. Trying to deal with Bipolar Affective Disorder <I>and</I> an affair is stretching the capabilities of Plan A (and/or Plan B) to the maximum.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<P>[ps: had to edit ... too much time in the hot desert sun ... I missed complete words in there ... LOL]<BR><p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited August 12, 2001).]

To all-<P>I did not mean to offend anyone by my "textbook" definition of bipolar. Of course, some very wonderful, famous, and creative people are BP. And, yes, it is often manageable with meds. Certainly we do meet people everyday with BP and you would never know it.<P>Please accept my apologies for my brevity and simplicity of my previous explanation.<P>AMyz