Thanks to all who responded to my recent posts. The "fog" is starting to lift, for ME. My W doesn't want to be married to me anymore. Whether it's because she doesn't love me or because of OM, it just doesn't matter. She's made her intentions clear and I'm just waiting for her to file. I will continue to plan A and be as kind and as loving as I can be, but I need to begin to move on with my life and stop obsessing about her and our marriage. <P>I would like to believe my W is in the "fog" and will come out of it someday, but I don't know if that's true or if it will happen. The only thing that gives me hope is that she hasn't filed yet, although I expect her to very soon. I'm not giving up or closing the door on our marriage, but I've got to prepare myself for life without her. I will try to be strong for myself and my daughter. She will need me more than ever. <P>I will forever be in my W's debt for giving me such a beautiful little girl. She is the most precious thing in my life and the inspiration for everything I do.<P>Goodbye for now.<P>sad dad<BR><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 07, 2001).]

I always thought, why would anyone want to be married to someone who didn't want to be married to them? And then one day my husband said he was leaving and he didn't know if he ever loved me. I had to take my own advice and think about it, you know, what would be my next step and what my attitude would be. I still loved him.<P>Briefly, he decided not to leave, but in the meantime, I decided that if I was going to be a single parent of 3, then fine. Nothing could ever change the fact that God's hand was upon us all and we were all on our way to heaven. The devil couldn't change that fact about any of us so HA HA DEVIL! But still, it hurt me that he felt that way about me and said those things.<P>My heart goes out to you.

Sad I am truely sorry for the pain that you are feeling. Have you considered moving to Plan B. I have read a lot of posts lately, but just have not been able to make myself post to any until now. I have done the Plan A thing, I have done the anti-depressant thing (am now off of them) and I am currently doing the Plan B thing. I have been where you are now and when I got to the point I felt like a D was inevitable, Steve H. told me it was time to try Plan B. <P>I know how you feel, but please keep in mind that she has not filed. My H told me he was going to file and that was almost three months ago. I have not seen any papers yet, although like you I still wait and expect them to come. I think that as long as you expect them you are safer from further hurt (it never will be totally painless). If they come, you expected it anyway; if they don't, what a pleasant surprise. <P>I will not lie to you and tell you that Plan B is a cake walk. There were times at the beginning that I felt like I could not breath because I needed to hear his voice. Find yourself a strong friend (or friends) that you can call instead during those times. Get a string of friends you can call in case the first one or two are not available when you need to call. <P>I have some friends here that truely saved me during those times. Your W needs to feel what it would be like to go through with the D, and Plan B is the best medicine for that. It will also let you feel that as well. I don't think I started to heal until about six weeks into Plan B. It will be 12 weeks on Saturday and guess what I am still breathing, I am feeling better, I am taking care of myself and from what I hear from some friends he is starting to come out of the fog.<P>But you know what, if h does not come out of the fog, I am stronger, happier and a better person. I will be ready to conquer the world at the end of this whether it be with him at my side or on my own. <P>You are a brave person for trying to save your marriage, everyone here is. If your family is anything like mine you may have been called crazy, but don't listen to them. What you are doing is what God wants and He is with you. He is with all of us who are trying to cherish a vow we made in front of him how ever many years ago. If she comes back, you will be stronger for it and so will you marriage. If she does not come back, you will be stronger for it. Live your life for you and your daughter right now. Everything else will fall into place. Let your daughter see a happy fun-living dad who can make it through the worst of times.<P>Hang in there!

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

Man, what a perspective... maybe it is us BS's that are in the fog, convincing ourselves that our WS's are in a fog and will just snap out of it someday. I tried that state of mind and I was a mess.<P>Now I don't think about my wife as in a fog. She's really in love with this guy. She used to be in love with me, but the love we had pales in comparison with what they have. It pisses me off, yes. But I am not going to keep throwing myself at a brick wall. That is how it feels when I make love to her. She's far away, and might as well not even be there.<P>But I am also a patient man. I love my wife so powerfully, that I am willing to put all those emotions aside and present myself as a willing and loving husband to her, should she decide I am worth keeping.<P>Coming to grips with reality is an awesome thing. It clears your mind and helps keep a healthy perspective. But a word that seems to be going around here is hope. Keep expectations low, but hopes high. <P>Maybe after you finally release yours and your wife's intertwined fingers and slowly let them go, to go her own way, she will feel that lonliness you feel. You were united as one, and when you break that unity, there is pain. She will feel it. The only question is that if the pain will be enough to bring her back and try to heal.<P>But that should be enough to at least keep that hope.

sinkingfast,<P>Plan B is not an option at this point. We are still living together. Also, plan B is difficult when small children are involved. I just can't bring myself to leave my daughter and my home. Leaving my W at this point would be easy. We need to be away from each other.<P>lan,<P>I fear I am going to be in your situation. Neither of us will leave, even though it would be for the best. It seems I will be going through a D while living in the same house. I don't think I can handle that.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 07, 2001).]

saddad, I know that you are very down right now, but please do not give up. I know it seems like you've been going through this forever, but your wife is still very deep in the fog. I have heard the things that your wife is saying for 16 months now.<P>Please just try to hold on for a little longer. Right now your wife may think that she doesn't want to be married to you, but we will all be praying that she realizes soon that she really does.<P>Please be strong for you and your daughter.....

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

sad dad,<BR>I COMPLETELY understand how you feel. Don't apologize to us about it. I think you are making a healthy decision for yourself. Let her go. Take care of yourself and your little girl, and Plan A gently. <P>You know, I've said before on here, I wrote my H a Dobson / Plan A letter that completely relieved 1000 pounds off my shoulders. It was "I know you want your space. It's probably best while you are figuring out what you want. I love you and miss you and I believe we can put our marriage back together. I am open for reconciliation when you are ready, but only for a time." Of course my H had just moved out, and your W is still living with you. But my point is, I let him go in my mind, just like you are. And I told him I was not gonna bug him anymore. But I Plan A as much as I can. Not desparate - not begging - not pushing, but being his friend when he'll let me. <P>YOu can do that too, ok? It's still a Plan A, because one of her needs right now is space and "thinking time". Don't give up HOPE, just give up EXPECTING. Hang around with us, and vent when you need to.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

dup<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 07, 2001).]

..<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 07, 2001).]

sad dad,<P>This saying has stuck with me and it's kinda what I live by. If it's ok with you, I'd like to share it with you - maybe you even know it already:<P>"It's better to have loved and been loved than never loved at all. It's better to have tried and failed than never tried. "<P>Hold your head high knowing that you've tried - nobody can ask more of themselves. Good luck.<P>

Sad Dad,<P>Yes, indeed. I have come to think "W and I were in the fog all along, and now OP is lifting the fog for her..." it is me that's still in the fog.....<P>I don't know what to think anymore. Do I want the fog to return to her, or do I want the fog lift off myself...<P>grrr... what a mess...<P>Freddy,<P>"It's better to have loved and been loved than never loved at all. It's better to have tried and failed than never tried. "<P>How hard do we try? How much can we love?<P>"Is it better to have loved more? Is it better to have tried harder?"<p>[This message has been edited by Humper (edited August 08, 2001).]

humper,<P>The problem with loving is that it often hurts. You have to open yourself to somebody else and in doing that you become vunerable. I believe this is what Harley is getting at when he describes protecting your marriage. If you are a pain avoider you'll probably avoid falling in love. But then you'll never experience the joy of being in love. So, it's better to have loved, isn't it. <P>If you've really tried then you'll know when it's time to turn the page. You'll do it without regret or remorse and with full acceptance of what the future holds. If there's any doubt in your mind or you're thinking that there's something you could still do - then why give up? this is where sad dad is at and I really respect him for that. He's still Plan Aing and he's still holding that door open.<P>Nobody ever said that marriage was gonna be easy when we signed up for it. So, I'm Plan Aing my buns off too and it's exhausting !!!!! But I ain't giving up.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited August 08, 2001).]

Freddy,<P>Thanks for the smack, ouch! I needed that to get out of my self-pity mode.<P><BR>

sad dad- I can certainly understand how you are feeling at this time. Unfortunately affairs that have a heavy emotional component are the most likely to lead to divorce no matter how hard the betrayed spouse tries. One book I felt has helped me alot to understand how this happened to me is Emily Brown's Patterns of Infidelity. I bought it off Amazon.com. She talks about all the types of affairs in detail - Your wife may be in an exit affair or a split- self affair- the two most destructive kinds. You would probably learn alot from reading this book even if you decide to throw in the towel. Keep posting and let us know how you are feeling. Take care- lifeismessy

I'm back and my emotions have leveled off. Thanks to all for your support, encouragement and advice.<P>Freddy said it best:<P>"If you've really tried then you'll know when it's time to turn the page. You'll do it without regret or remorse and with full acceptance of what the future holds. If there's any doubt in your mind or you're thinking that there's something you could still do - then why give up?"<P>It's not time for me to turn the page. I really only have two options. I can continue to plan A, spend as much time as I can with my daughter, and hope the fog lifts or OM gets impatient. Or I can give up and leave, but leaving may affect my chances for custody so that really isn't an option. <P>I'm still very puzzled that my W hasn't filed yet. She's been talking about it for 3 months and still hasn't taken that step. She wanted me to help, but I refused. She said it's very expensive, but she could always borrow the money. Something's holding her back and that gives me reason for hope. But I have a feeling it will happen soon and that's OK. Maybe getting the process started will help her see the emotional, financial and spiritual toll to be paid and the risks involved. <P>For now, I'll just wait and take care of myself and my daughter until I get to the point that Freddy talked about.<P>sad dad<P><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 08, 2001).]

Sad Dad,<P>I too feel that its not time for me to turn the page. And that’s exactly the reason I feel so hopeless at the moment, I feel there is something I could do, but just don’t know what. <P>I agree with others to plan A as best you can. <BR>

Humper,<P>Let me know if you figure out what you should do. If OM wasn't involved I'd probably give up, but knowing that he is makes that difficult. I still hold out hope that A will die out on it's own. My W hasn't filed yet (which is a good sign) and if/when she does it will probably take several months so time is on my side. I keep thinking that my W may need to have a full out relationship with him before it can fail (if it does), but she won't do that while we're married. If she could, she would have already.<P>So, like you, I sit and wait. Something will have to give sooner or later. <P>sad dad <p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 08, 2001).]

GodlyMan and others.. Please see <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011048.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011048.html</A> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Romantic love is the weakest, the basest, the most primitive of love. It is the infancy of love. It is that hear-fluttering, pulse-quickening feeling you get around the other person. It's not REAL love. It feels good, and a lot of times, we miss that feeling when we've been with the same person for a long amount of time.<P>However, what many people forget is that love is an ever-changing emotion. As it matures, it moves from that fleeting excitement to a more steady, comfortable safety/security feeling. Many people think that when the "passion" subsides, the love dies. They don't realize that the passion comes and goes, sometimes leaving for a long while, only to return stronger than ever. They think they've fallen out of love and they go looking for the excitement they once had, thinking that is real love.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>GM and Others.. the WS is not IN love as they think and as your thinking. IMVHO<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GodlyMan:<BR><B>Now I don't think about my wife as in a fog. She's really in love with this guy. She used to be in love with me, but the love we had pales in comparison with what they have. It pisses me off, yes. But I am not going to keep throwing myself at a brick wall. That is how it feels when I make love to her. She's far away, and might as well not even be there.<P>But I am also a patient man. I love my wife so powerfully, that I am willing to put all those emotions aside and present myself as a willing and loving husband to her, should she decide I am worth keeping.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>GM you are worth keeping.. the OM isn't willing to put those emotions aside because he doesn't have a basis to even know what the heck they are. Yes she is far away.. but the romantic love will end.. and you need to use the mature love you have in your heart to be there and catch her when she falls.<P><I>original topic at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011446.html[/i" TARGET=_blank>]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011446.html</I></A> <P>New topic started as a discussion off of this thread at: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011506.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011506.html</A> <P>------------------<BR>Semper,<P>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' O-Town<p>[This message has been edited by Husband2you (edited August 09, 2001).]