Things have been tough this evening. H is self-centered to a certain extent. Jennifer actually stated this to him tonight to a certain extent. H is not a bad person, yes he loves the OW, and the OW and him talked about marriage. Still can't understand this situation since I am the BS and am trying to live day by day. IT is difficult to hear him say he has no remorse or guilt about having the affair. Said for 6 months it was only a EA and then lays the bomb on me that it was PA too. I can't get over this, and am having a hard time that he had sex with another woman and is not sorry. I am tired of hearing about her. <BR>

OK -I just wrote a great response and somehow lost it....<BR>Anyway, I've been giving your H S*** for the last few days. He is so much like my H, except that he will actually admit it. I really appreciate his input cause then I can see why my H is acting so irrationally... anyway, I want to give you the same advice I gave him...I finally remembered the movie...Field Of Dreams..If you build it, they will come... get off the computer and GO HOLD YOUR HUSBAND.... both of you DOG GONE IT... He says that you are two feet away on another computer... Stand up... look at eachother and just hug, long and hard... see where it goes....<P>hugs...<BR>

HI thinker,<BR>Consider yourself hugged. I'm sure you must be tired. I give you much credit tho. Glad that you are both getting counseling.<P>Hmmm... Was wondering tho, maybe it is not so much that SnL is not sorry that he hurt you as he feels that he would have done everything the same way if he had the opportunity again, considering his state of mind and the state of your marriage prior to the A?<P>He seems to me to be VERY caring of your feelings and that is why he has not left, you know? But as far as the affair, I think that he feels like what's done is done and he can't go back and redo.<P>Your feelings do matter and I could be totally wrong trying to speak for SnL, he can definitely speak for himself, but just trying to empathize here.<P>I'm sorry you are hurting. Can you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep moving forward? You might not see it, but I think you guys have made progress. Just my thoughts...

and yes snl - sometimes it can be as simple as that...

Woo Hoo! Neither of you have responded for like 15 minutes. Pleeeeeeeeeeese, I hope you heeding my advice..... HUG!@!!!!!!!!

EyesWideOpen - Have not responded, H and I talked about feelings. I will continue to do Plan A and try to be a loving wife. H seems to get moody after counseling with Jennifer. We need to view the situation with caring and thoughtfulness towards each other. He does do caring, but on the computer too much. I love this man very much! I feel he is still in a deep fog. Would love to see some of the fog lifting, would be a prayer answered deeply.<P>I have worked very hard at being a caring and thoughtful BS. H even confirmed this with Jennifer in counseling tonight. Compromise is a great asset. That is where POJA works well and provided the couple with insights into each other. I know H feels computer is quite helpful for him. But POJA would be really nice.<P>BINthereDUNthat - yes, I am tired physically and mentally. Counseling has been good for us. H feels sorry that he hurt me and the family. So here I am trying to deal with H words and I feel like a pingpong ball. <P>Being a BS is a massive HURT! I really don't feel that the WS really sees the HURT the BS experiences. The scars left and the healing that takes place is long. Emotions are raw and seeping during this healing process. <P>Just want to vent, Life continues on and hope to do better tomorrow. We will see in a few hours.<p>[This message has been edited by thinker (edited August 30, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thinker:<BR><B>...Being a BS is a massive HURT! I really don't feel that the WS really sees the HURT the BS feels. They seem to express some concern, but it feels like they tell you they had an EA & PA so get over with it and move on. Don't they realize the scars left...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I hear you, but I suspect those are scars that only God is capable of healing, deep inside of you where no human being is capable of reaching, ever... The hurt goes way too deep, beyond comprehension, and very personal to you, and you alone, thinker... <P>I think WSs fail to identify with BSs pain because they are on such an emotional high from their OPs, you know, feeling "alive again" as they put it. (And this doesn't necessarily mean that the OPs are "in love" with WSs either!!!) Identifying with BSs emotional pain is probably very difficult for WSs when WSs are in an extremely opposite state of mind, you know, feeling all those endorphins that stem from infatuation... <P>I know, it doesn't sound great to hear all that, but just my take on possible WSs side of things in general... You know SnL better than anyone, so only you can really know where he is emotionally.<P>When will he feel your pain? Maybe never? Which is why you have to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get a plan, woman! What do you want from your life--with or without the man? Do you know? Have you ever thought about it? Or, does your life revolve around him? If so, then might I ask how come? And further, if your life does tend to revolve around him, do you believe this is healthy for you in the long run? You know, to allow his moods to dictate your happiness? Just wondering?<P>Not expecting answers, just throwing out questions to think about. I suspect that all us wives should think about our own lives and what we want to accomplish with or without our husbands. Might bring about a more healthy approach to our lives and less resentment when they disappoint us... Just some rambling thoughts to ponder...

Thinker, and SnL too if you're peeking.<BR>This whole feelings thing came up early on in our post-A battles. It's hard to listen to someone else's feelings, especially when you're in an intimate relationship and not take them personally. We have an old (from the 60's) marriage encounter workbook that had a section on feelings. The whole concept is that someone's feelings cannot be judged by another..feelings just are. The deal with couples is expressing feelings honestly and accepting them non-judgementally. Not an easy thing to do.<P>Anyway, we decided to try the exercise. Here's the deal...you get a jar, a pile of scrap paper and two notebooks. On the scrap paper you write "HDIFW" (stands for how do I feel when) and then you fill in the blank and stick 'em in the jar. Fill out as many as you want and about anything...some examples..<BR>HDIFW....the bathroom is a mess<BR>....my partner spends too much money<BR>....my partner doesn't do as he/she promises<BR>....spends time on the computer<BR>....doesn't look at me when we talk<BR>....spends time with the kids<BR>....says I'm too contolling<BR>....laughs at my mistakes<BR>....sends me a card<P>See you can, and should, put down things that bother you or things that you appreciate about each other. And not neccessarily about the A, but more about your relationship. Anyway, decide on a time(3-4 times a week for us at the beginning, now maybe 3-4 times a month), pull out a few and decide which one to tackle. You take your respective notebooks and start writing exactly how you feel about the subject at hand...(remember, feelings are not wrong)Write in sentences, statements, or list words that describe your feelings. When both are done, you read your journal out loud to your partner. It helps to touch and make eye contact during the reading.<P>I'll admit, when we started out, we picked easy, appreciative stuff..sort of tested the waters...after a while, we started hitting the hard and heavy emotional things..<P>It was very hard for me to listen to some of the ones we had that concerned my shortcomings, but it gave me invaluable insight into how it made him feel, and how those feelings translated into behavior. And vice versa. It's extremely hard not to interrupt with a "but I only did that because...". This is not about reasons or blame..it's about honest feelings. You'll also learn about yourself. I can't remember the subject, but we had one where my feelings of inadequacy and resentment totally blew both of us away. Even I wasn't aware of how deeply I felt about that subject.<P>Anyway, it only takes about 30-45 minutes each day, a good way to spend time together.<P>Think about it.<BR>Hang in there,<BR>T

BINthereDUNthat - thanks for the hug! Learned to hug about 10 years ago from a neighbor friend who brought her kids to the bus stop. Wished I was a big hugger before that, the hugs are wonderful.<P>Yes he is sensitive about our feelings, and yes things need to move on. He is here some progress has been made. Just the hurt is still there and takes time to heal from the wounds endured. Been really tough knowing about EA for 6 months and then the PA for about 3 or 4 weeks. Seems would of been easier to handle if knew all at once, maybe not, don't wish this on anyone! I am trying to pick myself up and dust off, and repair the tears in the clothes. Time is of essense in healing.<P>God I know is the one to heal the pain. Yes the pain is deep and no human can enter the pain and mend the wounds we feel. Yes infatuation and euphoria seems to be a drup of its own, a powerful drug.<P><BR>My life isn't dependent upon H, we have many years of togetherness, some quite happy and some not so happy. When one in the family is upset it does affect the whole family. H does state that he has a wide mood range now, and doesn't like it. I prayed to God last night that H mood swings would level out. Haven't been praying much in the last few weeks just trying to survive. God probably doesn't view this as being very positive. Changing this survival and handing it to God, he's the one we christians love.<P>Twyla - We did something very similar to this with a marriage group called Retrouvaille. It is a christian oriented group, to talk about feelings and how to relate to each other. With no criticism, no buts, no whys, no judgmental statements. Was difficult to start, but I think we eventually did pretty good. Doing this on our own might be a good way to talk about feelings, and might produce some POJA. My biggest feeling right now is H spends too much time on the computer. This is how H met the OW and escalated to an affair. The computer is a good machine, but it has scarred our family. Have expressed this with Jennifer and H. We are trying to POJA on amount on the computer per day, no agreement so far. H does acknowledge that he spends too much time on the computer. H does acknowledge my feelings of this is how he met the OW. Therefore, I would love to beable to sit and read all that he posts, but there is not that much time in a day. I basically said to myself, I love him, maybe this is good for him. There is the raw hurt, that he is going to get involved again. Yes, H says he will never let it happen again. But at this stage of his thinking and emotions you can't be sure of anything. <P>Thanks for the advice, trying to hang in there, life is difficult and tearful. Thanks to both of you.

Dear Thinker:<P>I am sorry I do not have any advice to help you right now. I can extend a hug and a great deal of empathy.<P>I will pray for that you and your H receive the healing you are both looking for.<P>My best to you and your family.<P>