The OM is controlling my wife..<P>everything she just told me went mirrored this list.. I deleted the things that didn't pertain.<P>****<P>ISOLATION<BR>---------<P>Controlling what she does, who she sees and talks to, where she goes, who she calls, seperating her from her children<P>ECONOMIC ABUSE<BR>--------------<P>Trying to keep her from getting or keeping a job. Making her ask for money, giving her an allowance, taking her money.<P>INTIMIDATION<BR>------------<P>Putting her in fear by: using looks, actions, gestures, loud voice, smashing things, destroying her property, threatening to destroy his property, calling CPS<P>USING CHILDREN<BR>--------------<P>Making her feel guilty about the children, using the children to give messages, toying with the childrens minds and making her the bad person for not giving him what he wants.<P>EMOTIONAL ABUSE<BR>---------------<P>Telling her that she isn't making the right decisions, and forcing his views upon her. Putting her down or making her feel bad about herself. Making her think she's crazy. Mind games, SOO Many mind games.<P>SEXUAL ABUSE<BR>------------<P>Making her do sexual things against her will. Coehercing her to perform sex and oral sex through angry outbursts and threats of destruction of property, telling her family that she's not treating him respectfully. Telling her that he is going to commit suicide, take the baby and never come back. <P>USING MALE PRIVILAGE<BR>--------------------<P>Treating her like a servant. Making all the "big" decisions. Acting like the "master of the castle". Makes her get off of the phone, follows her to work, spys on her, announcing his presence in a controlling manner.<P>THREATS<BR>-------<P>Making and/or carrying out threats to do something to hurt her emotionally. Threaten to take the children, commit suicide, and report her to welfare, call CPS so that she will loose her children.<P>*******************<P>I'm going to be sick. She is trying to get him out of the house.. and let him out gently.. for her protection. She told me that any other way and I'd have to come and get her body for burial. She's afraid and doesn't know how to get out. She knows he is going to come to her work, he has on several occasions.. stirred things up until he got his way.. <P>He even called the Domestic Hotline and told them that SHE was abusing him.. when she stands her ground he pulls a Domestic Violence card for VICTIMS that says.. "I will be respected, I will not be dishonored.. etc. etc.. " he reads this to her.. OMG.. <P>I sit and listen, I make mental plans in my mind.. THIS sh.it is killing me.<P>The hell with my marriage.. this is the mother of my children and my very best friend...<P>How can I help her.. save her..?<P>------------------<BR>Semper Fi,<P><B>Husband2You</B><BR>«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»<BR><I>···In the valley of the blind the one eye'd man is King···</I><P>· E-mail: <B> husband2you@petroleum.org </B> · ICQ: <B><A HREF="http://wwp.icq.com/1206499" TARGET=_blank>1206499</A></B> · Formerly: <B>E m p t y</B> ·

Has she, or anyone, called the police or have a restraining order placed on him? Is there anyway you can talk her into leaving there? Coming back home? Does she know that she is welcome back home? (I assume she is?)

deb.. her sister lives in the house with her.. her mother lives 15 mins away.. she wont tell them whats happening.. she only tells me and a lady at her work.

Well then you must talk to her about calling the police. If she is being physically abused and there are children involved, something MUST BE DONE NOW dog gone it. Have you noticed how so many innocent relatives of people with bad realtionships have been killed recently??? Take Sacramento, take LA. These are your kids, right? They must be removed from this abuse and I mean now.

I'll be back in about an hour.. sorry gotta run.. <P>there isn't any physicall abuse yet. she never resists to the point where he gets that way.. but one day.. he's going to lose it again.

Ok so you're saying she is being mentally abused? And the kids are there witnessing it? Something still has to be done. Can Social Workers or the County or anybody help?

RE: "there isn't any physicall abuse yet. she never resists to the point where he gets that way.. but one day.. he's going to lose it again."<P>Lose it again? does this mean that he has been physically abusive of her? If there is physical abuse going on in the home and the children are there someone can call child protective services. They will remove him from the home. <P>If he hits her, take her to the doctor. The doctor must report it to the police. Charges will be filed and he will be removed from the house.<P>INTIMIDATION “gestures, loud voice, smashing things, destroying her property, smashing things, destroying her property” The message in this is that next time it will be her that is smashed/destroyed. <P><BR>SEXUAL ABUSE “Cohering her to perform sex and oral sex through angry outbursts and threats of destruction of property” Abuse is actually a very soft word to use here .. this is called rape in reality. <BR>This behavior alone is enough for her to seek protection from him. And the police and courts should back her up on this.<P><BR>Short of doing something like the above it will take her realizing that she is in trouble and that she needs to get out of it. There are some places that give free counceling to abused women (and men too). Why not call the abused women's hot line in her area, they can give you some tips on where she can get help.<P>It is a very frustrating thing to watch someone go through this, watch them slowly fall apart and not be able to get them to take the steps they need to take on their own.<P>Z<p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited September 06, 2001).]

H2Y,<P>You know your W, this cycle has been repeated. How can her family (sis and M) not know? How could others at work not know? <P>Something here does not ring clear. I understand you should be worried but if it is 1/2 as bad as you say, as a mother, she should leave and cut her losses. What else is being held over her head to make her put up with such things. Or is she making you stress then making you watch her situation? <P>H2Y, I am worried about the effect this is having. Yes on your W but even so, more on you and your boys. You see, she is there by choice, you watch on the side and somewhat helplessly by force. So does your family. <P>H2Y, please let your W know how this is distressing you. If she will not take immediate corrective action, use her family as her protection and leave him now, you will have to decide if you will sit and continue to be a participant and watch this painful episode continue past the point of no return. What is she truly waiting for? She had opportunities to leave but past them up, why? What control does he have over her? <P>H2Y, these are just questions, you know like the others, we are concerned for the welfare of you and your family. You do not owe any answers to us. But you do owe them to yourself and your family. Please make sure she is not in some way stringing you along. <P>I don't mean to be harsh, it just hurts too much to see you stress over this when the way out has been made and passed over several times. <P>Maybe the final simple question is, what is the most valuable thing in her life? <P>L.

Orchid,<P>Please don't take this the wrong way, but I know how hard it is to get away from someone who is abusive. I was physically, verbaly and emotionally abused by my ex for 10 1/2 years. <P>It's not easy. In the end, I wasn't even the one to leave, he was. And if he hadn't, I would probably still be with him. You see, I had very little self esteem. He made sure of that. I didn't think I was capapble of being on my own with 3 kids. <P>An abused person doesn't need "tough love" (I know, not your words) because then who do they have to turn to? They need as much support as possible. The victim will decide when they've had enough and will leave. Sadly though, it differs with each person. <P>Mitzi <P>

Kevin, are you here man?<P> I'm on ICQ if you wanna talk.<P> jd

Hi Mitzi,<P>Maybe I am taking it wrong but the abusive person here appears to be the OM. In previous instances, the WS has taken the side of the OM over her own family. <P>It is just painful to see the family suffer while a WS chooses to take abuse from an OM. It is hard enough when it is from a family member, but from a non family member? <P>The thing that bothers me here (excuse me H2Y), is that the WS allows this while her own children and other family members watch and suffer. Maybe there is no logic to this action, but it is abuse to the children as well. Who will watch out for the children? <P>L.<BR>

Orchid,<P>Who will watch out for the children? Well, in my case, I did.<P>I have 3 sons and my 2 oldest ones saw way too much. Their saw their father abuse me every way he could except for sexually. There were also a couple of times that I had to get between my ex and my oldest son. I was an adult and I could take it, my son couldn't. And I know that if my ex had hurt any of my sons, I would have either killed him or left. <P>I understand H2Y's situation. It is hard for the family to watch this going on. And I do agree that H2Y should do everything possible to protect his children. As for his wife though, it's going to be hard for him to protect her unless she wants his help. It's almost the same as an alcoholic or an addict. You can't save them, they have to save themselves. But you can be there to help them and support them.<P>Mitzi

Having also been the victim of an abusing marriage I can see how hard it would be for her to leave this man, to tell her family about what is going on especially if she left you for this man. She would have to admit to herself and the world what she put herself into, what a mistake she made. That's hard to swallow.<BR>She also has to come to her own when it comes to leaving this man but she will have to have a plan, a good solid plan. It's hard to just up and leave a controlling violent man.<BR>You can try and help her formulate this plan but don't pressure her. Talk to her but don't judge her. <BR>I'm sure by now she has lost her self esteem, questions her abilities, questions whether or not you could ever really love her again even though you might tell her you do I doubt she strongly believes this. She probably feels trapped, not so much physically but emotionally. Abused women are made to feel they can't leave not because they will be physically stopped, but your sense of worth, self, and power are stripped from you.<BR>I'm sure it must be devastating for you to watch this and be so helpless but you can't control this situation, she has to try and work it out within herself.<BR>I did finally just up and leave my abusive X. Took the kids, left him everything else. I had no money, no job and really no place to live. I took a chance and called his bluff, not a smart thing to do but I was at the end of my ropes. I survived and thrived but I put up with it for years before I got to the point that I knew I deserved better. I had to come to that on my own. When I look back, as twisted as it may sound, his abuse came from his own insecurities that I would leave him. The more he thought about me leaving him the more controlling and abusive he became until I did leave. Then when he saw I could make it on my own he changed, he became weaker and I had the control and self esteem and self respect to let him go.<BR>Be patient with her, be there for her, help her come up with a plan, get the kids out, and take care of yourself.

I'm kinda wonder like orchid does, this doesn't really add up. If h2y was the abuser, and she was writing about him..then ok. But how does someone leave a H and kids for om, and within just a few months develop all the pathology of battered wife syndrome? Instead the disillusionment with the om should have driven her posthaste back to h2y, or home to FOO. There is a huge piece to this puzzle we don't know, and h2y has not told us (whether on purpose, or cause he really doesn't realize it either). So in no particular order I am just gonna throw out any conjecture I can think of, then make a couple suggestions.<P>1. h2y was an abuser/controller also, and w left him for om, but because of her issues chose one with similar temperament. She has been "trained" to fill the abused wife slot. Now she is with another controller, and one who is better at it. Plus she has a baby now, which needs her more than her older kids, so is "harder" for her to leave om (afraid of losing baby). If anything like this applies at all, it is a huge mess.<P>2. The w has some secret she does not want revealed, and om knows it, so uses it to keep her.<P>3. Her FOO of origin is even worse than the om (for some unspecified reason, maybe she was an abused/molested child).<P>4. The w is mentally ill, and her reality is not our reality. Maybe religious overtones of some kind, good/evil, possession, satan, whatever. Or is sexually messed up,and likes the attention of 2 men fighting for her.<P>5. She does not trust h2y (whether fair or not), and her assessment of the 2 men is that om is the better choice. Maybe even she "needs" to torment h2y for past ill treatment (in her mind).<P>6. Maybe she is pregnant again, and for psychological reasons feels she should remain with the father. (along with the first baby).<P>I could probably come up with a few more, but the point is something we don't fully understand must be happening here, h2y's rendition of events is almost nonsensical. So he is either seriously overstating/interpreting/omitting information, or his w is seriously messed up. I am gonna go with the latter and make a suggestion...<P>This is almost like someone in a cult, or trying to catch a psychopath, you have to get in their mind, h2y seems to need the services of a forensic psychiatrist, one must take all the info possible, presented as accurately as possible, and formulate a profile of his w, and from that profile, will emerge a strateg to effect a change...ie leave the om. But since he does not have such assets, the best he can do is think long and hard about this, talk to us, and give it his best shot.....so maybe this would work..<P>Since your wife has a history of leaveing for om, maybe you should become the om. Quit acting like a H, and more like a secret om, clandestine phone calls, clandestine meetings (if possible, then clandestine sex), be an attentive friend, listen/commiserate with her troubles, give advice, emotional support etc. etc. <P>By all means also avail yourself of the legal facts re the baby (if I remember right, she has a baby that is the om), I think from some of your posts I gather she is highly focused on the baby and not losing the baby, and om uses this lever a lot. You can then advise your wife re this (when the time is right). <P>All this could backfire of course, maybe just being the changed, plan a'ing H is the way to go, or maybe there is some other response dictated by a proper understanding of where she is psychologically....maybe you should just get her pregnant, I dunno. But something here does not make sense. But then again, I have concluded in matters of the heart (or the biochemistry of mating) craziness, and confusion, are actually the norm. Good luck. (btw no offense with anything, just letting my mind wander).

Dear H2Y,<P>Wanted to let you know that in No Way is anyone suggesting that you are a bad H or father. OK? <P>Maybe you can not be the direct one to help your W at this point, but someone can. SIL or MIL? Is there a way they can get her help? Her situation sounds serious and dangerous. Unless she is playing games with you and your family, she needs help. Even if she is playing games, she needs help. This is not funny!!! <P>I know all this is really getting you down right now. Should it? Yes. Will it keep you down? No. NOw the hard part is getting you back up on your feet. Reassure you and your family that you are loved and many do care for you. <P>Easy to say, hard to do. Ok H2Y, it is easier to keep you on the sane road than working with your wife. Now let's put our heads together. What resources are available in her area and what persons are available that can help her? Does she have access to a doctor for a good physical? Sometimes mothers go through a blues period where being rational is difficult. I am reaching for reasons here but I think you can see where this is going. I am not saying to have her committed or anything but just get her help. <P>A doctor, women's shelter, battered women's clinics, etc. are available in many areas especially the bigger cities. I think Cali or someone had some lists before. Check out the web sites under those subjects and see if there are listings in her area. It is hard for some of us to understand your situation. You know it better than anyone.<P>Kevin, I hope you are not upset at my comments. You need support and encouragement, it is here for you. You have been a great help to many here and in turn you deserve that and more. <P>I truly wish there was more I could do or say for you and your family. I will keep you in my prayers. <P>Take Care lil' bro,<P>L.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. You can't force her to a batter's woman shelter, you can't force her to leave, you can't force her to do anyting she isn't ready to do.<BR>In the years I was being abused by my H, I too picked only one or two people to talk to about it. As much as they offered me a way out, I didn't take it. I had to come to my own to leave. When "I" was ready and willing.<BR>I'm sure more people know than she thinks but who wants to pry into someone elses life like that? People question what right they have to ask such personaly questions. They know they stand the chance of offending someone. And, it is also failry easy to cover up the abuse too.<BR>If at some point in h2y's wifes life, before him, she was abused then it is easy to fall into the battered woman syndrome. She would have some of the characteristics to begin with and being with this abusive man manifested all those "weaker" feelings. If her parents were abusive and she witnessed this she could also already have the same feelings. It doesn't take long to develop these kinds of feelings. My X had amazing control over me after just a few months. You don't even realize it happening at first cuz they cover it up with "love" and "passion" and false "compassion". <BR>It's really hard to explain if you've never been in the situation.

retracted<p>[This message has been edited by Husband2you (edited September 07, 2001).]

I had initally responded to one of the theories posted in one of the previous threads and have decide on the council of several of my close friends here at MBers to retract it.<P>I know as well as those who truly know me here that I am not the controlling and abusive husband that was theorized about.<P>------------------<BR>Semper Fi,<P><B>Husband2You</B><BR>«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»<BR><I>···In the valley of the blind the one eye'd man is King···</I><P>· E-mail: <B> husband2you@petroleum.org </B> · ICQ: <B><A HREF="http://wwp.icq.com/1206499" TARGET=_blank>1206499</A></B> · Formerly: <B>E m p t y</B> ·

hmmm...I missed it, but surmise despite my disclaimers may have upset you, was not my intention. If I did, once again let me say was not analysis of anykind re your person, was simply anything I could think of that might apply with the facts as presented. Sorry if that did not come through, or if it was just too hard to read. I did debate with myself for sometime before posting it, but opted for full disclosure of anything that could potentially be helpful, the stakes are too high to leave any thought unturned. Did I err in the decision to go forward?

I want to thank the women who have responded that understand where my wife is at. Its not comforting where you've been, but apeasing to know that you made it out of hell. SnL thanks.<P>------------------<BR>Semper Fi,<P><B>Husband2You</B><BR>«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»<BR><I>···In the valley of the blind the one eye'd man is King···</I><P>· E-mail: <B> husband2you@petroleum.org </B> · ICQ: <B><A HREF="http://wwp.icq.com/1206499" TARGET=_blank>1206499</A></B> · Formerly: <B>E m p t y</B> ·<p>[This message has been edited by Husband2you (edited September 08, 2001).]