Hi all.<BR>I need to clarify some things in my mind. Maybe those of you "further along" can help with this.<P>Old-timers, you know my story, so no need to tell it again. Lately, phone talks w/WH have been very nice. We talk, laugh, etc., very nice, almost "loving" on his part. He says things, sounds like he wants to "take care" of me, or cares if things are OK with me. I told him my printer stopped working properly, he's looking for a GOOD one for me, a "custom" printer - like I like.....I mean, if you're going to look for a printer to help me out, just find the cheapest, little ADEQUATE thing and be done with it! But, noooo. He's talking about a top-of-the-line model, JUST LIKE I ALWAYS WANTED! What is this? Guilt?<P>See, he'll talk to me for an hour, if I continue with him. Always, sweet, light, fun. Always expresses concern, etc. for problems, if they come out in conversation (how's the car running? Get it in for oil change). Can the fog be lifting, or am I making more out of this than it is?<P>Remember, he was GONE (totally no contact) for 3 months, so this willingness to talk to me freely has only happened in the last 4-5 weeks, and there seems to be NO barriers between us (except we DON"T talk about A), and talks about our M are strained (I only tried that once!).<P>My fear is that he is just being "nice" so that he can get what he wants (ultimately: d.) without having me LB all over the place. He <B> sounds </B> "normal", well-balanced, happy, secure, planning for his future (without me) etc. LOTS of things I wish I didn't hear in his voice. Can it be that he REALLY does "know what he's doing" and be happy with the decisions he's making?<P>It's making me doubt we can ever reach reconciliation when he's acting like his life is so good now. This fits the reports that I've gotten all along: that he acts "NORMAL" and seems "fine" with where he's at. The ONLY sign I have that things are NOT "fine" are his willingness to talk to me at length (which didn't exist in the beginning), AND his hints of my calling him when she's not home. He gave me his <B>and her</B> work schedule, AND his cell phone #, and said he answers it ANYTIME, 24/7. (She works midnight shift, he gets home @ 10PM - he has told me twice that she leaves the house for work at 10:15). I haven't taken him up on the offer for a late night conversation yet only because I don't want to appear too "eager".<P>Any clues into the mind of a true, foggy, WH? TIA<P>Lupo

Hi Lupolady,<BR>I don't really know your story, but from what you wrote here it struck a chord in me so I'll try and take a stab at it. Your H sounds to me like he is trying to cover all bases...just in case. Am I right in assuming that he is living with the OW? If so, then he is sending you a message that it's ok for him to 'cheat' on her w/you. Sounds weird, doesn't it? Otherwise, why would he give you both of their work schedules, and all that other info? <P>Now, I'm wondering if this goes back to the "if I don't initiate it, it's no contact" thing. That is, if YOU call him, then he thinks he's blameless. That was just another side thought I had (my mind flies off in all directions!). At any rate, my H waffled a lot over this past year, too. One day I was pure poison, the next day, he 'wanted to do the right things by me' and almost assume the role of dutiful husband--but not quite. <P>As time went by, I continually Plan A'd, and believe it or not, there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel for me and it's not an oncoming train (I hope!). It just sounds to me like your H might be paving the way for a clean, unmessy, non-uncomfortable divorce--or, he is uncertain in what he really wants. There is really no way to tell at this point. You are right in words not lining up with actions. That is always a signal that something is out of whack. <P>I wish you the best and hope that he is having second thoughts about the OW, and that that is what you would really like to have happen. Keep us updated, ok?<P>Hugs to you,<BR>Winny<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Winnytoo:<BR><B> Am I right in assuming that he is living with the OW? If so, then he is sending you a message that it's ok for him to 'cheat' on her w/you. Sounds weird, doesn't it? Otherwise, why would he give you both of their work schedules, and all that other info? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi, Winny,<BR>Thanks for your thoughts. I kinda agree with your thinking. First of all, let me say that his "cheating on her w/me" is a hysterical picture!! I love it!! I hope it continues!! I have no idea why he gave me his AND HER work schedule, except for me to call when he's alone. BUT the other side of that coin is: HE knows when he's alone, so why not call ME?? Ah! If this were easy, we wouldn't need to be here, would we?<P>I also suspect SHE called HIm to initiate this whole messy A, because there's NO evidence that he ever contacted her, so this is in line with his past behavior. So I guess I'm just doing to HER what SHE did to me!! Only diff is, HE"S MY H!!!!<P>Thanks again for your reply!<BR>Lupo<BR>

Youre right about why he wants to buy you an EXTRA nice printer- its GUILT! Go ahead and let him get it for you though- my H bought me a top of the line Compaq new computer and I LOVE it! If your H is still living with OW it could be that she is starting to LB with him and/or wanting more of a firm commitment from him - thats what my H"s OW did- which will certainly work in YOUR favor. Thats why this is the time to keep things friendly but casual though I know you want more dont talk about your 'relationship' that just adds more pressure to him now and wont help. He may even be at the start of the withdrawal stage or thinking about breaking it off with her once and for all. Dont ask though. Be patient! Time will work in your favor. Take care- lifeismessy

Yeah, the guilt thing...my H FINALLY bought me the piano I always wanted , and also a very expensive bracelet...I left the bracelet with him, but the piano is coming with me!!! I wanted that thing too darned long!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lifeismessy:<BR><B>Youre right about why he wants to buy you an EXTRA nice printer- its GUILT! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That is exactly my "intuition" - thanks for saying it!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>If your H is still living with OW it could be that she is starting to LB with him and/or wanting more of a firm commitment from him - thats what my H"s OW did- which will certainly work in YOUR favor. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, he is with her. SS "tries" to <I>tell me stuff</I> without really <B> telling </B> me, know what I mean? I think he secretly wants us back together, but doesn't want to feel like he's <I> betraying</I> his dad by saying it!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Thats why this is the time to keep things friendly but casual though I know you want more dont talk about your 'relationship' that just adds more pressure to him now and wont help. He may even be at the start of the withdrawal stage or thinking about breaking it off with her once and for all. Dont ask though. Be patient! Time will work in your favor. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm trying! I'm trying! It's sooooooo hard!! Especially when you see POSITIVE things, and you want SOOOO much MORE!! And you want it all at once!! You guys have to help HOLD ME BACK! <P>I do believe he IS at the "withdrawal" stage w/her - because of some of the stuff he said to me (AND what SS "almost" says to me). He asked for computer games. Ahem, excuse me? YOU want this GREAT NEW RELATIONSHIP to work, BUT you want to monopolize your time (like he was with ME at "the end") by playing on your computer all the time????? Hmmmmm. <P>Time, patience. Thanks! YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST!! I just need to be "held back" once in a while when I get IMpatient.<P>Lupo<BR><p>[This message has been edited by lupolady (edited October 03, 2001).]

Lupo- I'm so glad you appreciated my advice- thanks for saying that!!! As you know I have been thru all the stages that you are going thru currently so I hope I am helping you figure out where your H might be at this point. One thing that really helped me be patient thru this was relying on God's timing for the future of my marriage rather than trying to force things to move faster. I am impatient by nature like you but if there is ever a time for patience and restraint it is NOW for you. Waiting could save your marriage- and even if the end result is not that, Jeremiah 29:11 says "For I know the plans I have for you..." I committed that verse to memory. God will not throw you into an uncertain future that he has not planned for you. I hope these thoughts help you. I spent alot of time in Bible studies to get thrut his difficult time. lifeismessy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lifeismessy:<BR><B>Lupo- I'm so glad you appreciated my advice- thanks for saying that!!! As you know I have been thru all the stages that you are going thru currently so I hope I am helping you figure out where your H might be at this point.</B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Life...,<BR>I DO appreciate your help. I know you have been where I am...that's why I LOVE to hear your advice. And I mostly follow it, really I do!! I hardly ever LB, and I stay away from "relationship" talks - even tho it's what I want to talk about most of all!!! <BR> <B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>One thing that really helped me be patient thru this was relying on God's timing for the future of my marriage rather than trying to force things to move faster. I am impatient by nature like you but if there is ever a time for patience and restraint it is NOW for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>I have a very good friend who has been "through this" and who constantly reminds me, "Do you want it fixed QUICK or do you want it fixed RIGHT?" OF COURSE I want it fixed RIGHT!! I just get soooooo impatient. I guess that goes with the territory. I can SEE daylight (and I don't think it's a freight train coming again either!!) and I want to "be through" this worst part (right now it feels like the worst part!) so that I can really "practice" my MB principles' teaching on him. I am soooo impatient! Thanks for reeling me in, so I don't mess this up!!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> Waiting could save your marriage- and even if the end result is not that, Jeremiah 29:11 says "For I know the plans I have for you..." I committed that verse to memory. God will not throw you into an uncertain future that he has not planned for you. I spent alot of time in Bible studies to get thrut his difficult time.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have been spending A LOT of time w/the Lord, and praying and studying and reading. I was more able to do this during the summer because I had the whole summer off. I am a teacher, and my H left about 4 days before school let out. This was a blessing AND a curse! I could stay "depressed" and all alone all summer without jeopardizing my job, BUT I "could stay depressed and all alone ALL SUMMER!!!" <P>I could also read and study my Bible about an hour to an hour and a half every day. Now, I'm lucky to find 15-30 per day, so my "alone w/God" time has suffered.<P>Anyway, this post is getting WAAAY too long! I wish we could converse privately....so everyone on this list wouldn't have to be subjected to all of this, too. I am glad for the company, but some people don't want to read all of it!<P>Thanks, everyone, for your input.....it helps to know all of you know HOW this feels, and where it's (hopefully) headed.<P>Lupo

Hi Lupo,<P>I'm not going to give you the MB good, tride and true advice that you're not supposed to worry or try and analyze what your H's actions and words mean because most of us are not able to do it! (mostly ME) lol<P><BR>From reading your question, I would say it could be either:<P>~ Your H is being very sweet and caring of you because he loves you and he's conflicted and doesn't want to lose you over this and hopes you will hang until he makes a firm decision on what he wants ... OR<P>~ He hopes you won't fight him on a D so he's being nice.<P>I lean toward the first bullet, and here's why. From my experience on MB most WS want their BS to LB them so they feel justified in what they're doing, so they are anything BUT nice to them. Now this is not a hard and fast rule, but it is the trend. <P>Hey Lupo ... why don't you start calling him for those late night phone calls now. He has given you everything but an engraved invitation ... in one of Harley's books it states if the WS starts lying to the OP, then the whole dynamics of the A changes .... most times the situation does a 360 in the BS's favor . So, how about giving it a whirl? ohhhh ... there is one other thing that's a by-product for you if you and H start making it a regular late night phone date, OW will probably eventually find out and LB ... wooo hooo!<P>BTW: Answering your original titled question "When the words and actions don't match?" ... well when they do start jiving is when you'll know H is ready to recover.<P>Love to you, Lupo!<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 03, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><B>~ Your H is being very sweet and caring of you because he loves you and he's conflicted and doesn't want to lose you over this and hopes you will hang until he makes a firm decision on what he wants ... </B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My H IS a very sweet, caring person over all. HOWEVER, he turned into a monster, and screamed at me A LOT just before he left, AND then left a NOTE, and then told everyone we were "separated, and only conversing through our attorneys" - that hurt a lot. I believe he IS conflicted, I believe he had been conflicted, I believe he has tried to "make it work" because he THOUGHT he knew what he wanted, and went for it whole hog. NOW, however, I think he's rethinking some of it and/or she IS LB'ing, and I have reasons to think that, based on SS's conversation w/me, and what he DIDN"T tell me (but wanted to!!) I posted it about a week ago, so you can search and find it (I'm taking up WAAAY too much space here today).<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>OR<BR>~ He hopes you won't fight him on a D so he's being nice.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><BR>I originally thought that, too. But essentially - he's already given me "papers" and he's leaving me EVERYTHING, so there's not a real good reason to fight. He hasn't hurried it at all, BUT has gone along with when the attorney tells him to go to the next step in the process (in other words, hasn't "stopped it, either)(Hmmm, maybe a little prayer in this area is needed?). I am wondering if he is "giving me everything" cause he's curious if I would "fight" him because "I want him" rather<BR>than to fight him on "things." THIS IS MADDENING!!!<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I lean toward the first bullet, and here's why. From my experience on MB most WS want their BS to LB them so they feel justified in what they're doing, so they are anything BUT nice to them. Now this is not a hard and fast rule, but it is the trend. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><BR>I answered this above. Yes, we HAD the time of fighting and nastiness, but not since we started talking. The other thing that came to my mind is that he hasn't "asked" for his things.....like his grandmother's antique vase. He KNEW he didn't take it with him when he left, cause he looked for it for a few days before he left, had me look for it. He SAID he wanted to "display it in the bookcase" (we had just moved), but he didn't find it. Turns out, it was "hidden in plain sight" - I found it in a box on top of the washing machine after he left!! Maybe he found it, and then forgot to pack it? Or maybe it's some sort of "Fruedian slip" type thingy. I don't know. I've thought about it all summer. It makes me nuts! He hasn't asked about it or anything else at all in any conversation. I still have the title to <B>his</B> truck. I mailed him the registration so he could renew his tags this month, and called him to make sure he got it, but he never asked about the title. You would think that would have been the perfect opportunity to ask for it.....<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> why don't you start calling him for those late night phone calls now. He has given you everything but an engraved invitation ... in one of Harley's books it states if the WS starts lying to the OP, then the whole dynamics of the A changes ....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><BR>I intend to call him.....it's just that our schedules are almost as opposite as his and HERS! I go to bed about the time he's getting home from work, and by the time SHE leaves her house, I AM asleep!! I WILL call on Friday night, tho, and see how that goes.....then take it from there. It <B>DOES</B> seem like "an engraved invitation" - doesn't it? That's what's sooooo maddening!! It sounds like he WANTS me to call him. I haven't yet, only because I'm not sure what he's likely to want to say. Whatever it is, he wants to do it <B> when she's not around.</B><P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ohhhh ... there is one other thing that's a by-product for you if you and H start making it a regular late night phone date, OW will probably eventually find out and LB ... wooo hooo!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><BR>I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK!!!!! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B>Answering your original titled question "When the words and actions don't match?" ... well when they do start jiving is when you'll know H is ready to recover.</B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> Thanks for this, Jo. It's exactly what I was looking for...<P>Lupo

Lupo- remember the example of the husband in the harley book Surviving An Affair? how long he had to wait before his wife was finally ready to resume their marriage? Most people wouldnt be that patient but it CAN be the one thing that saves marriages in the long run. I remember reading about that H thinking I could NEVER be THAT patient- well I ended up in a similar scenario !!!! I had to learn that God controls my life not me- as my pastor says its like God is in the drivers seat actually DRIVING the car while we are in the backseat with a toddler's playtime steering wheel THINKING we are steering! Give up the need for control and your anxiety will lessen. I think this was what God was trying to teach me as I waited. lifeismessy