I posted this in "Recovery" too, but was hoping for insight whereever I can get it.<P>This whole recovery thing is tougher than I thought. Has anyone else found that to be true?<P> My W (WS) moved back in mid-August. We have been in counseling together since mid-September. <P> I guess I expected to get more credit for what I did while we were apart, that is keeping my focus on us and hanging in there &#8216;til the fog lifted and we could begin to work on our marriage. I kinda thought that she would come home and be appreciative of that and acknowledge the pain that she had caused for me and be willing to make it up in whatever way she could. That&#8217;s not really happened the way I envisioned it.<P> On some fronts we are doing OK. We have developed a normal routine and we tell each other we love each other (which I know is true). We communicate fairly well and have done some things together (travel etc).<P> But&#8230;(you knew there would be one, right?) When it comes to affection and love I am missing that big time. I feel very love starved&#8230;can anyone relate? I noticed a thread earlier this week on kissing and the lack thereof and I am getting less of that, too. Some pecks goodbye and goodnight but that&#8217;s it. No hugs, very little touching.<P> I feel like I have gone through enough rejection and I feel very vulnerable so I haven&#8217;t initiated much. Our C says it really should begin with my W and my W agrees but so far she hasn&#8217;t been motivated to action. I really miss the physical part of our relationship. Knowing that I am still attractive to her and desirable--I don&#8217;t feel that now. We have talked about it and she has acknowledged this but we can&#8217;t seem to move forward here.<P> She does say that we will get there and it all takes time. She says to be patient. I am trying.<P> Any advice from those going through something similar or who have gone through and have some idea that there can be light at the end of the tunnel would be greatly appreciated.<P> I guess I am just frustrated and it really is bothering me a lot.<P> Thanks for your help.

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I can relate 100% to this! My husband could really care less if there is any affection at all right now! His last contact with the OP was Sept. 11. I don't have any advice to give, but I definitely sympathize with you! I just keep my hopes up by reading anything Dr. Harley has to offer! SAA is an excellent motivator if you haven&#8217;t read it! I guess what keeps me going is the fact that he is here and not with the OP. From different things that I have read, it can take sometimes take several months for the WS to come out of the fog and have feelings of affection towards the BS again. Frustrating for us, but I am just hoping that some day, he will appreciate what I have gone through to keep our marriage and family together! My husband has been very honest with me and sometimes that hurts. He admits that he doesn&#8217;t have any feelings of guilt right now even though he knows he should. He also is not remorseful at all right now. I really hope these feeling change as he comes out of the fog! It is very hurtful on top of everything else!

Elad, as we started in on recovery (started d-day, June 13, 2001) we seemed to be affectionate and loving (mostly) but then he would say something and all the affection would seem phony. Such as "I think our marriage was a mistake." I don't think my husband's affection for me was a total lie, but I think he thought I expected it and he better give it, so he did. Then when he said something like that I nearly died all over again. I know it isn't very comforting, but at least when your wife begins to show signs of love to you, she will mean it.<P>It has taken us all this time to begin to fall in love with each other again. I hope that's your experience soon, too.

I guess I'm one of the luckier ones as we've been affectionate and passionate from D-day (9/23) to the present. We have had a few days of distancing, but then mainly I confront it, we fight about it, and so far we have ended up making up each time, though while it is happening we're right about to head for divorce again.<P>As the BS, it really surprised me that I was able to receive his physical affection. I thought I would be totally grossed out and it would take me a long time to get comfortable with it, but I melted into it pretty quickly. I guess it was because, like you said, I'd been starved for it for so long. While he was out getting his, I was here all alone trying to figure out how to save the marriage.<P>I don't know if this will work for you, but I have been very aggressive about it. If I need to be held, I go wherever he is and crawl into his arms. If I want sex, I initiate. I figure all of this is long past due to me, and I am darn well going to have it, especially since he is not meeting my needs in other areas (honesty and openness, no contact with OW). Fortunately, he is responsive and accommodating, so this works for me. Anyway, I don't wait for him anymore like I used to.<P>I have found Ellen Kriedman's books helpful for getting ideas for increasing romance and affection. You can try some of the ideas in "Light Her Fire" and "The 10-Second Kiss" to see if your wife is responsive. You can start with suggesting a 10-second kiss each time you reunite after being apart and as a good-night kiss. MUCH better than pecks! See if she'll agree to that.<P>Conqueror

YES!!! <P>I can't get no affection....he rolls his eyes when I reach up to kiss him...or he turns his head away. He barely suffers a hug...<P>But we have more SF now than pre d-day...it boggles my mind...<P>I would just about give anything for him to say "I love you." ...for HIM to kiss ME...for him to even SMILE...<P>not only starved for affection...but TIRED!<P>Cali

Boy this thread hits home. I feel the same way. I am the BS and would give anything to hear I love you. Sometimes when I ask he will hug or kiss me, but nothing more. And for SF that is almost noexist. I too feel I need affection. I don't understand.

Thanks all for your replies...<P>I guess this is one of thsoe deals about this whole thing I don't understand but is yet one more cross to bear for the BS....<P>I just hope my W figures out how important this is (yes I have told her...many times) before it affects my feelings negatively...<P>It has been seven months plus since d-day and two months plus since she moved back home so maybe it is something that needs more time...Our C says plan on a year...<P>This is so hard on us BSs and it sure would be nice if the WS would recognize and acknowledge it at some point.<P>Big SIGH...in the meantime...like the good little troupers we are, it seems like we BSs continue to be the rock of the marriage with little thanks and appreciation.<P>Thanks for letting me vent.<P>E

Elad,<BR>Have you read SAA? In the book, Jon doesn't get the appreciation he wanted either. Its a long hard road. The idea though is to go forward, start over, and build a better relationship. Try not looking back. Its so difficult if the spouse is not cooperating.<BR> Like Conqueror, I am also one of the lucky ones. H wants to be "hanged on". He wants to know I love him. We kiss and hug often. We snug on the couch, hold hands in the car. Are very careful of how we talk to each other by not LB-ing. He wants to know I miss him in bed when he's not there. You know what? I do miss him. I've become dependent on him, this scares me too. It makes me restless, I don't know what to do with myslef. Even the 5yo said something at dinner the other day. "Oh great, there you go again, before you never kissed and now you do it all the time, oh brother!!!" Translation: what the H*ll happened? Very astute for a 5yo. LOL.<BR> Also like Conqueror, I have been very aggressive with SF. I have talked to him about it and asked if he minded. He just smiles and says no. He can't believe me. Its not that I ever held S*x back from him before, just wasn't the aggressive type. Now everything he says I turn into something sexual. Anyway, one is his needs is attention and admiration. I try to give it to him. I also tell him that since he was feeling like giving it away, I'm going to make darn sure he is too tired to do that by my wearing him out. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<BR>What are your wife's greatest needs? Try filling them and maybe the other part will come. GO another step further, you are already vunerable but tell her you need to have more frequent hugs and kisses. Tell her you need her help. This has to be done in a way which doesn't come across as begging though. My counselor said whatever I do, don't beg.<BR> Myself being the BS, this was hard for me to do initially, (not the not begging, but reaching out when I felt I was already the one destroyed) I felt it was being too "needy", which I never liked to be perceived as. One of my faults is always thinking that I have to be as self-sufficient as I can be. This doesn't help H as he needs to be needed. Here I thought I was doing him a favor. I have had to let that go and allow myself to become more vunerable. It hurts. Its despairing at times, and on top of it all, its very frightening. We BS already feel beaten down by the betrayal and then we have to open ourselves to more vunerability? Impossible you say. For me, it became a "do or die" thing. <BR> Just my thoughts.<BR>Hang in there. It takes TIME. Patience.<BR>Mikkey

Mikkey<P>Thanks for your thoughtful reply...<P>You are right...a very astute observation for a 5 YO...I laughed...<P>I have read lots and it is one thing to read and comprehend that this takes time and patience, it is another thing to live it.<P>I am trying very hard to move forward without looking back...again very hard to do ...and you are right. It is a long hard road.<P>What is helpful for us all is to hear from others how they made it through or how they can relate to what we each are going through at a particular time in this whole process.<P>I will admit that I have not been the one who would usually intiate sex...that whole rejection thing I guess. Maybe that's something I have to consider and put that fear of rejection and all its attendant meanings somewhere in the back of my mind.<P>You are also right in that none of us looks good being needy and begging, but perhaps there is a way of getting what we need without seeming to be weak...<P>As I said before...I will just keep on keepin' on...<P>Thanks lots for the input.<P>E

Elad,<BR>The affection does come back, and I think we BS hunger for outward signs of affection so much...well it seems like forever.<P>I do know that once I set my mind on being his friend, doing things together we enjoyed, letting the relationship stuff take a backseat, he did start to loosen up. Laughing together is a catalyst towards liking each other again.<P>Hang in there.<BR>T

Yes, yes, yes! It's a tough road ain't it? 99% of the time I initiate everything - the kiss 'hello' and the kiss 'bye-bye', the hugs, the cuddles, the hand-holding, the 'I Love You's'. BUT - the 1% of the time that HE initiates is very special and I cherish those moments...<P>There has been no 'thanks for believing in me', no 'thanks for forgiving me', no 'thanks for being so strong for us'. No real apologies either - in fact it's impossible for him to comprehend exactly HOW MUCH pain he caused me, and yes, I would like him to be able to recognise that. There are triggers every day - there is still pain every day. The only thing we can do is to remember how much of it we've been able to survive so far, and keep trudging steadily forward! We can do it!!! <P>love Paint

Thanks Paint<P>I hadn't seen much from you here in a while and wondered how things were going.<P>Sounds like we have a "normal" complaint in this process, yet not an unreasonable one on behalf of BSs.<P>I hope things continue to work well for you.<P>Take care (Time & Patience is what everyone says will help.) <P>E

Love and affection starved sounds like the appropiate phase. It was true before d-day and after as a BS. <P> The only difference was before I didn't know the true conflict and after I decided that if WS left he would be able to just jump into the sack. So I decided that before he left I would take advantage of WS and live all my sexual fantasies, nothing held back, because if WS left I would probably have a drought on SF. I find I can truely enjoy it if I can be the aggressor, WS is easy. I have a harder time when WS wants sex, when it feels like there is no sincere affection or touch, (it's just a physical need). C said my "taking advantage of him was so out of character" it made him stop and re-evaluate. I was having fun, no work responsibilities, D-20 was at college & son 15 did some summer work where he stayed during the week. <P> Times were good during temporary no-contact of 2 weeks, 1 month, and now 3 months. During contact with OW he gets distant. D-day #1 Oct. 2000, D-day #2 & current - July 4, 2001. It was getting difficult for him calling Ow at work (LB), so OW suggest 3 month no-contact until Dec. 29. To many people at OW's work place was suspicious. OW is also married. I have been planning on moving to plan b in Jan. 2002 if he could not make a no contact commitment.<P> Only thing, I was to love starved and careless one time, after 15 years and never any problems now I am pregnant. It took 6 months trying with other 2 kids, now 15 & 20. I have told WS & Dr office, no one else.<BR>I have had many thoughts and was looking forward to adult kids only. I was careless during a time when I had made some expectations which were not being meet. I know BS's are not to have expectations during the WS "fog". <P>Mikkey - I too thought I was doing my WS a favor by not being to dependent. I think he does like to see my vunerability. He has now said many times WS is sorry, but I think he is saying it in response to the pregnancy, because he knows I was really looking forward to a time without kids.<BR>I don't think his ADD will ever let him realize the pain of the OW on me or the kids.<BR>(They know).<P>I know he is tormented between being foot-loose & a child again. God is giving me strength.<p>[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Exploding ]

My husband (WS) sometimes gives affection (never enough) and always returns an "I love you too" when I say it first. But then<B>every week at counseling, he says that none of it is coming from his heart right now and he is only doing it for me</B>.<P>I don't know if this is good or bad, but I can't seem to be able to tell him to stop until he means it! I think it would be worse not getting anything! Maybe I'm just trying to live an illusion?<P>Le<P>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Moving Forward ]<P>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Moving Forward ]<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Moving Forward ]

I can certainly relate to being "love-starved". I want/need this so badly now because of what my WS has done to me and our relationship. I need to be held and hugged and caressed by her to feel secure. The problem is that she doesn't really want this..she wants distance because of the fog. She knows that i want these things (which neither of us did in the past), but can't give me nearly as much as i would like. I would like even a decent kiss that wasn't like she was kissing her father. <P>It is the little things during a day that gives me hope for our future. As far as SF goes...forget it. That was also a big problem before in our marriage. Sometimes I feel so unloved during all this work when she's putting so little effort into it and not meeting my needs. I try so hard to meet her EN, yet alot of times she won't accept my efforts. <P>So yes i can relate to this and sometimes just want a hug from SOMEONE...anyone to show that they love me and care for me because i am ME !!

SD<P>Just to know you are appreciated is such a big thing...My W said it onec when she moved back in...that she appreciated me hanging inthere...but hasn't said much about it since then...<P>reassurance is what I need...in the form of affection, words and actions....I have told her that a number of time...she says she understands but it doesn't show up in action...<P>BIG SIGH---I just keep on plugging away and hope that it will come some day...<P>E