Well after the events of Friday night I was an emotional mess all day yesterday. I cried practically all day. H called and I screamed at him, cried all the ususal stuff. He said I blew things way out of proportion as ususal. It just amazes me how they always try to throw it back on us. Anyway during one of our phone conversations I was saying how foolish I've been, naive, gulible and he said you are none of those things I am the fool. He came over and we talked a little bit and i said it's now or never you either come home and we begin counseling together or it's over we're finished you stay away from me and I'll stay away from you. So he is suppose to give me his answer by the end of the day today. We briefly talked about OW his friend and he still says that he has not slept with her they are friends that's it I really don't buy it I'm not that stupid. I told him that I really hope she does press charges against me b/c I will finally get to meet her H and he will know everything he said you're not going to be arrested. I said I was really looking forward to that you see I have no record not as much as a parking ticket so if charges were filed I would probably have to pay a fine or get community service. She probably is shaking in her boots wondering when I'll be calling next.
So last night H tells me that he is either going to the movies alone or going to a bar for a few drinks. I said wait a minute you don't drink and he said maybe I need to. I was kinda pissy about that so he said what do you want to go out tonight? B/c before Frday night we had plans to go out. So we ended up going to dinner and a movie. I can't believe it. My life is like a really bad talk show a step short of Jerry Springer!
So today he is suppose to give me his decision I've said everyhting I've had to say. If he's not coming home then it's finished. I need to be really strong and stick to it this time. I know I have to.
Would really appreciate some feedback.
Thanks, C

Hi Cybil<p>Personally, I don't agree with ultimatums in these situations. Not that they don't always work, but, sometimes you don't like the reaction. It isn't always the reaction you are looking for.<p>I read your other thread, please believe me when I say I understand your pain. I really do. I don't think anything hurts more than an affair.<p>The affair has to die a natural death. It won't stop just because WE know it should. It has to stop because he wants it to and he no longer has a curiousity with ow. It is my opinion, that he will continue to sneak around (maybe not as often)until he is truly ready too. It could be that he does want it to stop, yet he can't quite control himself yet. It doesn't mean that he doesn't love you.

cybil - I had a big long reply to you typed and then lost it when I tried to submit it without logging in first. Poop.<p>No matter, briefly what I recommended most of all is for you to try your hardest to get control of your emotions whenever you communicate with H, OW, or OW's H.<p>Why?<p>Because if they can brand you as an out-of-control nut case, they will. They will quickly award themselves "victim" status and demonize you as justification for what they're doing. We BSs unwittingly give them lots of ammunition to twist around to their benefit any time we LB or step off the moral high ground by making threats or accusations.<p>Yes, please think about Plan B.<p>No, don't try to hurt her (OW) physically or emotionally. Remember, this is stepping off the moral high ground. She is hurting herself just fine.<p>Yes, continue to try to contact OW's H. But if you do and get rejected, stop. Don't give HIM any more reason to award his W victim status.

Patient1, WAT thanks for the replies. Patient1 I know ultimatums aren't always the best way to go but you see my H is here nearly every day or every other he spends time with us on the weekends and I've been allowing him to do this I can't do it anymore. It has to be all or nothing at this point.
WAT, thanks I always appreciate your words of wisdom. I am going to continue to try to contact her H unless my H decides he is coming home. I will not make myself look like a nutcase b/c that certainly won't help mattters and you're right she will then look like the victim. How are things with you and your W? Tahnks again.

Your other pals here posting have the right idea. We must NOT, not ever give them any ammo for their consciences. They will think they have the "right" or are "justified" in doing their illicit activities. I also agree w/you in that I'm also living in JerrySpringerLand, w/o the trailer parks, chair throwing, and missing teeth. Please do your best to stay in control of it. You said you had been to a counselor. How about an MD? For me, a mild anti-depressant seems to be doing well. I no longer continually obsess about the hurt and pain. What just seems to eat me alive from the inside/out is the utter lonliness of having to deal w/all of this and keep a home, and look for a job, and be a mom, and keep my sanity, all the while, he's living this cool, bachelor-like existence, using our credit cards, dressing like a million bucks, and I'm actually even scared to go out & buy a new outfit or two just because I'm so unsure of both the present and future finances. <p>Please pray about starting Plan B. It is a drastic step. Why not accept that we do and are still going to have very horrible, down days and yes even whole weekends, but we do not have to give up yet. That's what his "special friend" is hoping you'll do. Don't buy any more rounds for her ammo to use on YOU. <p>First of all, you have not truly proven, although we know and all on this page here know it's the truth, so you must take away that false ammo they're using against you. Combat w/truth, love and hard, cold, facts. Consider a private investigator. That way you can confront OW, H, and OW's H with truth. Your conscience can also rest assured knowing the truth. Just like my situation, a man (or sometimes even us women) will separate. My counselor says that rarely do they ever truly leave for just the concept of peace, tranquility, and future greener pastures. Usually, they are grazing in an amazingly green spot, which is also amazingly right above a sewer line. Hee Hee. When he finds out what she's really all about, then someone's (your H) is going to actually hit that sewer line when he starts to dig a little too deep in their relationship (how about lie fest instead?) and the sh*t will really begin to fly. Our WS leave because there is someone else. Unless we are drug or alcohol addicts, supremely abusive, or are totally unable to cope living as an adult, they're actions to leave have no merit. Even those w/serious addiction and emotional problems sometimes have their spouse's help and support during their time of need and aren't always abandoned. Now is the time to get logical here.<p>Confirm their A. Either hire a pro or have someone you know do the legwork for you. In the meanwhile, don't contact her. She is poison. She is seriously disturbed. Keep on praying, asking God for direction and to reveal truth to you. Do not contact her or let anything she does hurt you. Change phone #, change codes, whatever you can do foil her actions. If she bothers you, YOU be the one in control. Tape or record her messages/conversations when SHE calls (not you) and then turn those over to police. Let her use her own evil against her. It's like mental kung-fu or ju-jitsu. Then, or even now, you can obtain a restraining order. Just make sure you & your children are safe from her. Please do not contact her or her H. Wait to contact her H when you have concrete proof of their hanky-panky. That way, you are yourself ACTUALLY and TRULY in no way perceived or are an emotional basket case and can truly be IN CONTROL. Just hum the Janet Jackson control song to yourself....<p>Am truly praying for you right now. Please continue, and I do from my heart, thank you and all who are praying for me, my WS and my son right now. I'm living this right along with you, my friend. What I'm attempting to do, and so far it's working for me, is a distant plan A. Anytime I have contact w/ him, I show him just how much I love him and are trying to understand him. At the same time, I am not attempting to overly contact him, bombard him anymore w/cell phone calls or telephone calls. Also, am not going to speak, write, email or contact OW in any way for now. If I have to ever in the future, I'll leave that for the professionals to handle. I am not putting myself anymore at risk by appearing to be the one w/real problems here. I am seeing a counselor to deal w/past issues in my younger life (verbal & abuse) and w/how I could have lead to adding stress or problems to my marriage in any way. In doing so, I'm working on me and addressing the REAL relationship problems. I'm taking responsibility for me. Doing the best I can. So can you. If your H does not ever come out of his F and mine remains there with you H too, then we can have the peace knowing that we have done all we could do. There will be no peace for OW until she comes before God, confesses her sins, and most importantly--TURNS AWAY FROM IT. Jesus forgave women of ill-repute and told them to go and sin no more, not to give in a little now and then. If our H's or OW truly want peace in their lives and love in their hearts, they must turn from this horrible problem. <p>There is a real sickness in their souls right now. They probably suffer from self-hate also, even though to us we believe them to be living it up, doing as they want. I could not ever imagine to live for months at a time just seeing my son or my H for a few hours (overnight in the case of my child). It would be my undoing and I would in any way, shape or form try to heal the pain. That is why I truly believe they are suffering from some sort of mental and spiritual disease. Here on this site, it's coined "fog". Good analogy though. There is truly only one cure for their problems and their ego's have to be willing to be put aside temporarily in order to do that. This is why I truly, in my heart, believe this to be a mental and spiritual disease. Their ID's and EGO's are out of control. Devouring whatever is in their path w/little or no consideration to anyone else around them. After praying this morning and thinking over my morning cup o' coffee, something dawned on me and I wanted to share this w/you and Orchid. Both of them are suffering from this disease. Before church, I got into my interactive NIV CD and found out that not only in earlier cultures and even in religions other than Christianity and Judiasim, that adultery was considered not just a sin, but a crime punishable with serious consequences. In those cultures, they chose the punishments to fit the crimes--stoning, etc. I think part of the problem is that everyone in this world just glosses over adultery. That because no one (at last is ever charged w/adultery and gets a lethal injection or life sentence) that it must be ok. What's so sad is that others w/criminal, sexual crimes such as molesters, not only get convicted, but are usually given some kind of therapy once behind bars. Not only do some spouses never get any reprimands for their deeds, but will never seek any help or get any mentaly/spiritually.<p>That's why we gotta get outta the game. NBA says "Get in the Game." I say, let's get out before it takes us down too. Stay loving. Let H know you're there for him, want to understand him, but are not going to feed the lies, the garbage. That's showing love too. Read the love chapter in Corinthians and take it apart piece by piece. That is why you must also seek and confirm truth about their A. It's so funny, I thought joining a sorority in college, being around the right people, trying to look and dress my best, choose a cool major, all of that would make me happy and give me a happy life. Was just a stupid band aid on my real hurts as a kid. Now know that healing and true "coolness" comes from the wisdom which comes from God. I ran from the ultimate power. Seek the truth period. Within you, within your H and the A. Know that staying away from OW will only help your situation. There's a book, The Prayer of Jabez. It changed my whole way of thinking. I pray it for my family, my H, my son, my friends, and myself daily. It goes something like this, "Oh, that You would bless me indeed, that You would increase my territories, that Your hand would be with me, that You would keep me from evil that I may not do harm." Remember the part about keeping you from evil that you may not do harm. REALLY think about that part. God knows that when we react, through anger, betrayal, scorn, hurt, we are like an animal beaten down and herded into a corner. Our only way out is to fight, hurt, bite. Ask God to keep us out of the line of fire, to avoid it totally, so that we do not hurt ourselves and our reputations in the process by having to fight our ways whether verbally or physically out of a stupid situation. My prayers are there for you--please have a good day. <p>Tonight, I am going to a neighborhood prayer meeting in my subdivision. Outside for the kids they are cooking on a fire hot dogs and marshmallows and telling bible stories. Inside, us grownups are going to have our own little fun. That's my excitement for the day. Oh, besides writing you and reading all friends here. God bless you and all who seek healing here.....<p>"Therefore, put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes you may be able to stand your ground; and after having done everything to stand." [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Cybil<p>Why could you not become less available to him? Don't always be there when you comes over, if you are there, take advantage of his visit and go and do something for yourself. He doesn't have to know what you are going to do. You could say that you have some errands to run or your going to take this opportunity to visit a friend. He doesn't need to know any more than that. Let him wonder what you may be up to.<p>Have you thought about working out a schedule with him, rather than him pop in when it's convenient for him? I don't imagine this is very convenient for you. You may be able to be a little more prepared when he visits.<p>I think by doing this rather than an ultimatium it still give you space to make adjustments if you want to. At the same time you are still on speaking terms.<p>[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Patient1 ]</p>

Hey Cybil ~ <p>I'll have to go along with the trend here...<p>You are in pain, and its understandable that you are reacting this way.<p>However, your screaming at him is an Angry Outburst. Your ultimatums are Selfish Demands...and even your insistence that he agree that his relationship is an affair when he disagrees is a Disrespectful Judgement.<p>Love-busting won't get your H back.<p>Your emotional, hysterical behavior simply enables and justifies his choices.

Hi Cybil, Sorry for your pain but I to agree with everyone on this thread, be strong you can do it look how you have helped people on this site. Try to stay away from him as much as possible and don't call him I know its hard but he needs to make a decision on his own not with you LB, okay heres a hug (((((cybil))))) take care Hon. Love Sally