H2Y my friend....<p>You are not, I repeat NOT giver'd out!! If you were, you would only be thinking of yourself! You are still thinking of how to protect your kids (all of them), protect your family, even your W, who may be a lost soul! I, for one, am proud of you!! You road continues to be the higher ground.<p>As for the rest of the dilemma, I think, if it were me, I would pack em all up, even W, and take em away. I would tell her that I want to spend the rest of my life with her and my family. I would tell her that the OM is out, and if she needs to leave to go back to him, she does it without the kids, without your blessing, and so long. You and your kids deserve a life....a real life, and if she doesnt want to be a part of that...so be it...it is HER choice. Your choice is to protect your kids, your love for her, and her, if she chooses to fight for her M. If not, it is not healthy for your kids to be anywhere near OM. You are totally correct that in 6 months to a year, she will be alone again, destitute, searching again for the "love of her life", when she had it all along. OM will end up in jail again, for a longer stretch this time, and she will have a baby on her hands that she can't care for. YOU must be the strong and stable force and show those kids unconditional love, no matter what MOM chooses to do. Trust me, they will be far better off with you and your struggles than they ever could be with her. Pack up the truck/car, head home or any other direction you choose, just away from OM. Take her with and let her decide where she belongs....with a strong stable man willing to nurture, love and protect her or with an unstable, abusive user that can only see his own selfish desires....but then again...this is just my thought process...I am sure there are others here that prolly think a bit more clearly than I do, more objectively about MB principles. I think you have done all the Plan A you can, and it is time for some finality to this. You are strong in your resolve and love for yourself and your kids....and the post from pammy shows the depth that others feel for you! Truly, your W is so fogged she can't see the sun shine through.<p>Take care my friend!!<p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart

Thanks TrueHeart I'll be thinking through yours and everyone elses responses.

H2Y,<p>Wish I was there for you man. This is gonna be a hard time for you. Nobody can tell you it's the right time for Plan B. Only you can know. <p>However, here's my thoughts on the subject for you.....<p>It's the time when being a Safe Harbour is no longer enough. It's the time when she chooses the rough waves of the storm as opposed to the shelter that you've offered. It's the time when you know these are HER decisions but these aren't right for you or the boys. It's the time that your love for her is draining fast and the pain of dealing with what you are asked to deal with is getting on top of you. It's the time when you can let her go and equally accept her in your life but she decides. It's the time to say, it's ok, our paths may be different.<p>I have no idea if that helps you H2Y - but you've been one hell of a good guy. Maybe it really is time for you to move on with your life. Everything else that trueheart has said is on the nose.<p>take care good buddy, keep in touch and take care<p>- Freddy

H2Y,<p>The instability of your kids'lives with just their mother (or worse, with the OM around) is frightening. They need you. What does the attorney say about your getting custody if things don't work out? Are you on your youngest son's birth certificate as the father? Was he born in Texas? I think that in Texas, you are the legal father no matter how DNA tests turn out. Maybe I'm wrong. Hope not. <p>I guess that if you apply the protective order, you need to be ready for W's negative reaction and what it might bring. But, I would do everything that I could to keep OM away from my kids. He is dangerous. IMO, not a LB, but a loving father protecting his children.<p>What I see in you is a man who deserves to have a woman who loves him without conditions and without worry about what hurtful thing she will do next. I cannot imagine the anguish of fearing leave someone who is not respecting you because you may risk you relationship with your children.<p>You have to decide, H2Y. I'm concerned that you will hurt either way. I do believe that you can keep your relationship with the boys. Surely, the courts will see to that. I hate to see you so beaten down by W being so disrespectful to you. In an ideal world, W would devote herself to her relationship with you and the kids, and you would settle back into family life. I will pray for that for you. <p>Estes

H2Y,<p> My friend, only you know if you will be able to live with the possible consequences of these actions. I think back to the H2Y I remember in Houston. I think back to the friend that told me I was making a huge mistake, if I left my W at that time.<p> God knows you have done your best to regain your marriage and the love your W once had for you. Someone recently made the insightful comment that my love for my own W was almost a blind love. Well, I can relate to that. And I say the same to you H2Y. <p> What you and I have went through is WAY more than anyone should have to endure. You have done this for more than 3 years, I less than 1(9months). I have felt on many occasions that I should just end it all(Plan B, my marriage). And, while it makes me look SOOO very weak, each time I have allowed myself to either be talked into continuing Plan A, or fooled into staying, by my W herself. If I dig below the pain and, yes anger, I must say I have not regretted continuing.<p> I have erred in many things and in many ways as I am sure you have. Still, WE are at a crossroads you and I. Something has got to give. We do ourselves little justice by staying with this just for the sake of staying with it. <p> The time is here H2Y. For both of us. We either continue as we have, or we decide that we have suffered enough. We put ourselves in Gods hands and let Him be the Judge. If we have suffered enough the He will see that our lives change for the better. With our wives or without them.<p> I, for one, think it is time for US. Time for YOU H2Y. You and your children. <p> jd

Well,<p>Which one of my angels out there reached out and B* slapped my WS?<p>She comes in from work goes straight to her room and doesn't say a word. I eventually joined her on the bed and she started balling hysterically. <p>She doesn't want to go to hell. Her conscience must have really been bothering her. She seemed really depressed and unhappy with the way things are. Her crying and complaining about her life stopped and she went to sleep. I let her sleep for an hour and she gets up bathes. She sits at the table and eats dinner with me and the boys. The baby was already at the OM's house, she left a little later and goes to OM's house 2 doors down. She is gone 45 minutes and comes home with the baby. <p>I'm on the couch watching TV and my 6yo comes in from her bedroom where all the boys and her were talking, and he sits by me. My 6yo says "mom said, who wants to live with her in a new house, without you (me) and OM. I got up off the couch and walked into her room where all of them were and asked what 6yo said was all about. She told me that I need to talk to the 6yo and tell him to stop being my little spy. I told her he wasn't my little spy and asked if he was lying about what he had told me. She didn't want to answer the question. The kids left the room and eventually she talked about it. Talk about fog... she then said she wanted to move back to Houston and into the 2 bedroom trailer for a few months. So I ended up getting my regular 20 to 30 minutes of discussion with her and she falls asleep again. We never get a chance to talk because of the kids always being around. Her sleep patterns are erratic, so there is little time for 'us', or should I say 'her' and 'I'.<p>I don't know what I'm going to do. I failed to mention this yesterday, because it was a bullet to my pride... but I was notified by the Background Investigator my application had finally been rejected. The Officer didn't say why, but I have my assumptions is marital related / morals related because of the affair. The 3 phone calls I had from the Officer last week regarding my W and the address of the OM and the incident reports that the OM was suspect on over the last 2 years and her continued contact with him may have been the demise of my application. I'm trying to get a straight answer from the department before I apply with them again or another agency. So I'm back to no employment and being a good dad. <p>I'm tempted to pick all 3 boys up, fill the car with gas today and going straight back to Houston. Yes a rash sudden decision. I'm going to contemplate Plan B over the next few days, or week(s). I suppose that Thanksgiving, her Bday in December and Christmas will be determining factors that will Push me into Plan B. Feburary 2002 will mark the 3 year A DDay. I don't plan to be in plan A when that day comes.<p>Thanks for the advice, as always. This chapter/thread is still open... as I decide what to do on the RO/PO and DNA test.

Hello Empty/h2,
Yes, the acceptance stage is nearing for you.
Times have been very tough in the past, and they will be tough again. But you know you have the strength and stamina to make it.
(((((hugs)))))

CL.. Et Al,<p>Okay... someone tell me what happens when you get near or to the acceptance stage? I didn't realize that I was encroaching on that shore, CL, until you mentioned it. But that is what I'm feeling.<p>I had a pretty rough weekend. SOS (same ole ****) I've been pretty angry for the last week, becoming bitter somewhat. Still trying to be her safe harbour when I can. Alot of solitude this weekend.<p>Restraining Order is coming, its presence will rock the boat. W and I had SF Friday night...she initiated by asking me if I would. Next morning she wanted to be honest and W told me that her and OM have been having sex, but its been awhile..., at the neighbors house, 2 F'ing doors down, while I was here at the house, on her lunch hour...supposedly. OM wanted time with her this weekend.. and tossed rocks on the roof of the house..half of the night Saturday night. Denied throwing more than one...She never woke up..., but I didn't sleep. I retrieved 12 rocks from the roof and yard, skirting the house, all the same kind of rock not indigineous to our yard or landscaping. I showed her the rocks. She wasn't amused. W invited OM to Thanksgiving Dinner, when W assumes that I am going to see my mother when my mother comes to visit a friend in the Dallas area. She didn't ask me when I was going to see my mother... but it was going to be the day after Thanksgiving, due to my mothers plans for shopping.<p>W told me she wasn't going to OM's christmas party and that she was going to her's alone. Should I sit here at home and babysit?<p>DNA test was performed on Monday of last week by OM and baby. Without my approval or knowledge. I told W I don't want to or need to know who's the father. I already am named on the birth certificate. <p>Has anyone ever heard of filing a Restraining Order against the DNA clinic from releasing the information? RO on the OM is coming, but needed to know if I should have also included the clinic.<p>Alot on my plate this week, and it isn't turkey.<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Husband2you ]</p>

Bump... need some more answers, please

I'm picking my brain trying to come up with the MB way to deal with your situation... and I'm stumped. All I can think of are MY automatic reactions, and I'll admit, I'm not thinking of the possible consequences to what MY actions would be.<p>I would not babysit the kids while your W goes to her work xmas party. Did she even ASK you to do that? If she does, that's one thing. If it's an assumption on her part that you will, I would make plans for yourself that night, and arrange for a babysitter that you can both split the costs of - 50/50 (if you can afford that).<p>I don't think you should call the DNA lab to see about a RO there. What is the point of that? If they're going to find out who the biological father is, then it's going to happen one way or another. I can understand your fear in the results though. But remember... you consider the boy yours, no matter what the tests say.<p>I think her assumption for Thanksgiving day was very rude. Not at all 'fair', and VERY self serving. How did that go anyways? What happened?<p>I see you about to blow. That won't be good. Start on your plans (or get them finished is more like it), and move yourself out of the situation. Take your 2 sons (or more if they'll go and it won't cause police involvement), and get out of the situation you're in. Obviously, invite your W to go with you. Give her some time to think about it (a couple of weeks? would that be enough?). But put a time limit on it, and get out of your situation and into plan B!!! (obviously, no plan B if your W comes with you).<p>I really don't know how you've managed to get through so much. I really admire you for your committment to your family. It is really such a shame that your W can't see what she's put you through and the hurt she's causing so many people. ((((((((((((( H2Y ))))))))))))).<p>I hope you get more responses. I'm pretty sure that some on here might be afraid to make statements b/c they aren't overly familiar with your story. I'm not suggesting that you repost it all... if anything, I'm saying to the 'lurkers' of this thread, "say anything to H2Y. He needs input from all angles to help him to make some decisions".<p>Take care of yourself... and email me at topie25@hotmail.com if you need to talk.<p>Karen

What!?!?!? Invite the OM to dinner? Like inviting a thief to dinner? Hm.... I don't know H2U, my gut is telling me you should get out of this situation, she is using you again. As far as her Christmas party, let her find a baby sitter. <p>The DNA testing thingy, well you might as well wait and find out the results. If it is the OMs baby, then maybe he owes back pay. <p>You and your children spend family time with family. The ones you are happy around. I am soo sorry this is how she is treating you. In all of this what is her sister doing?<p>L.

Hi H2Y, WOW! First I'd lke to say how much I truly admire you. You have been through so much. No one and I mean no one deserves to be put through all the S*** you've been through. You are a heck of a guy. I wish your W could see the man that we see. You and only you can make the tough decisions that need to be made. We all know how much you love your W and those boys. You deserve to be happy. You've struggled for 3 yrs. I give you alot of credit b/c I don't know how you did it. Yes you may have made some bad decisions along the way, we've all been there. The important thing is that you are a better person today. You have grown and changed so much. I have nothing but respect for you and hope that you do find true happiness and peace in your heart
no matter what the outcome of your situation is.
All the best to you H2Y,
Love and Payers,
C

H2Y, I am speechless on your dedication to M. I think it is time to do plan B but take your time and plan it well.

Thank you for your replies once again.<p>She and I talked last night and I have decided, with some intervention from Faith to remain in Dallas for a little longer. <p>There are reasons behind my 'needing' to stay here.<p>1. Her lease is up in Jan.
2. Her sister will renew the lease.
3. The OM will have to move from the neighbors house 2 doors down, because the house is being forclosed on.
4. W found two houses next door to one another, a 3 bedroom and a 2 bedroom.
5. W wants the boys to stay with her and wants me to move in next door.
6. W says she doesn't know what OM is going to do or where he is going.
7. I am still unemployed, with domestic support being the grounds for it.
8. I won't be 'allowed' to move in with her into the 3 bedroom, unless she feels that 'I don't / won't have a place to go'.
9. If Houston is my destination then she wants me to reside with her.
10. W doesn't want me to leave her side.
11. I don't want to continue to have to share her.
12. W wants me to be stable, employeed and have a place all my own.
13. W doesn't want me to initiate any type of no-contact with her (plan b/divorce).
14. W wants to raise the kids together, but not as divorced parents.
15. OM is becoming increasing tired of the roller coaster as well.<p>So, Faith and I talked and decided on a means of taking any forthcoming job that will support the boys and I. Moving out of her house before her lease is up, and taking the children with me, showing stability and employment. Letting her see the boys on a consistant basis, and maintaining contact with her. Removing the boys and I from the vicinity of the OM, will be good for the boys and I. Maintaining Plan A for another month or so, showing her that she 'isn't' going to lose her children, as she suspects. Going to Plan B sometime near the three year mark in Feburary 2002.<p>Now that I have a plan, tenatively, what do you think?<p>Orchid, Topie.. anyone else.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi H2u,<p>Wow the test of patience resides in your court and you are passing with flying colors. Wait until Feb? You are amazing. <p>What your W is saying sounds conflicting. Her lease is up in Jan but she found 2 houses side by side? Who is paying for those houses if you are SAHD? H2U are her calcuators working? Just a thought. So if OM has to move out of his place, where is he planning to relocate? Next door to you? <p>I don't know. I think you need to get work as you are planning and settle the boys into a routine that they can adjust to. Your W's in and out schedule with you and the boys needs to settle down. Her words needs to match her actions. I sure remember how frustrating that was and how you helped me through those rough times. <p>As always, I will be available as much as possible. Let me know what you need. <p>Logic in the fog. What a challenge....... I don't want to undermine the progress you and Faith have made to help you. If my mouth is running off too much just tell me. Ok? I just don't want to see you taken advantage of anymore. You are way too nice of a guy for that. Now that OM is another subject. I have a lot of ideas on what to do with him..... LOL!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

A local with a outspoken mouth.. NEVER.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] O, as always your wonderful to me. Keep up the good work, you help me see many things also. Thank you

OK, now... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Don't blame me... I didn't make this plan... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>Seriously... lemme add a little here.... I threw it out as an option, and we agreed it was a possibility - based on H2Y's confidence in his ability to Plan A for 2 more months (Dec and Jan), and his ability to Plan B in Dallas starting in Feb. This will give him 2 more solid months of filling all EN's possible. (This will make 5 solid months of Plan A in Dallas, and he Plan A'd for 2 months long-distance.) Her main complaint now is his unemployment. If he feels he cannot Plan B in the same city with W and OM, then he should scrap this plan and go back to Houston and get a job there - now - or in a couple of weeks when school is out.<p>Anyway.... Just some more thoughts..... H2Y has several options, and I think any of them can work. We can all help him figure out which will have the greatest chance of salvaging the marriage, along with keeping everyone safe. As long as the danger factor can be kept under control, H2Y still has enough love in his love bank to continue Plan A.<p>Orchid [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , or anyone else, please don't hesitate to voice your thoughts, opinions, and WONDERFUL wisdom. My only place has been to help H2Y think through his thoughts and options.<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

darn scapegoat with a keyboard [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

h 2 u<p>I posted a reply on this thread....<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=002095<p>Hope you are hangin' in there - {{{h 2 u}}}<p>tnt

H2Y...<p>I would say that your think tank is working overtime!! I am, as others, indeed impressed with your *stickativity* and commmitment to working things out. Just be careful!! The unknown factor here is OM's temper and reactionary impulses. Keep yourself and the kids at a safe distance so that if you have to snatch em into a car and get outta Dodge, you can! As far as the W "coming clean" about her and OM having sex, protect yourself in that area too, my friend. This rather unsavory character doesn't have the "cleanest" history, if you catch my drift. Have you made other plans for what is going to happen after Feb or March? What if you get this house next to W and OM "decides" hes movin in with W and she doesn't stop him? Are you then locked into a long term lease with this unbearable situation? I dont mean to roadblock your plan here, but gives you somemore to think about in protecting yourself!!<p>Have a great day!<p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart