I have never had contact with ow. I never want to have contact with ow. She should not have become involved with a MM. Specifically my H. I have absolutely not respect for her. I don't care what she is feeling. She needs to stay out of my life. I wouldn't even feel bad if she dropped dead. She means nothing of value to me.

If I didn't have to take the OW to court for harassment, I would have never had any desire whatsoever to see, talk to or have any contact with her.<p>My marriage/divorce/relationship with my H is none of her business. It's between my H and I regardless of what my H has shared with her, it's our private business and she was a symptom that intruded to the point I had to go legal on her. A real preditor.<p>The idea of her wanting to talk to me to redeem herself, apologize, make nice, etc. makes me physically sick. There would be nothing of value she would have to say that could change my feelings regarding anything. I would look at it like she needed to unload her guilt, and that's between her and her Maker.<p>Perhaps time may change my mind one day, I do know better than to say "never". <p>
Jo<p>[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Look, I had contact with the OW because I needed to...she does NOT want to talk to me...because she is not sorry...she freely has said she "loves" my H,she will wait for him forever.I Needed to know what I was dealing with...Conclusion, this is a sad lonely, desparate woman...She has left her own H and children and is living in another state,LEFT her children...
The last time I talked to her online was May 01...and I will not initiate contact again because I said every thing I needed to say to her. I told her she could move in NEXT DOOR and it wouldn't matter...My H is BACK to himself and still can't figure out quite how he got where he was.My motives for contacting her, upon reflection, were NOT pure. But I needed to put this thing BEHIND me and part of that is confronting that which offended me. I have finished that and have NO wish to let her back in to MY life. I truly beleive it IS my life,again.And she has no part in it...

notheard, <p>Who better to give a perspective than those who have actually been through the experience themselves. There truly is nothing to gain by doing this. I contacted the OM the day after my DDay and had a very direct conversation with him. I did not want to be his friend...I wanted to make it perfectly clear that I wanted to save my M and my family and I would do WHATEVER was necessary to accomplish this. He apologized at that time and said he would never contact my W again.<p>Guess What???? He lied....go figure. He not only continued to contact her but supplied her with toll free numbers that would transfer to his cell phone.<p>After I found out about the continued contact I contacted his W and she didn't know about it. She was obviously stunned by the news. But apparently this was not his first affair. The scum bag has a pattern of doing this. <p>The next day he contacted me again to apologize...can you imagine??!! I don't know what the hell he was trying to accomplish. I told him apology NOT accepted and why should it be. He is a lieing sack of [censored]! I told him to take the energy that he has used to spin this web of deception to destroy two families (along with my W) and focus it on fixing his family for the sake of his W and kids as they had suffered enough. It also gave me the opportunity to tell him that if he EVER crossed my path again....EVER..I would make it my mission in life to make sure his life was a living hell.<p>If this is the kind of discussion someone wants to have with the OP W than go ahead and call, just don't expect it to be a curiousity fulfilling experience. She does not owe it to her and she doesn't trust her...What's the point?<p>WW4L

After much reflection on this topic since yesterday I do think taht notheard has a point here.<p>His wife may or may not know who scarlet is. She may or may not know that her H had an affair. For all Scarlet knows she is not the only one he had an affair with. He sounds like a person with no moral fiber what so ever so I would not be surprised if this were the case.<p>I think it is up to his wife if she wants to know more and if she wants to speak to Scarlet. The letter notheard suggested might be a good idea. It's simple and does not attack the wife in any way. It is only informative and offers contact if the wife wants it. Any further move is up to his wife.<p>One of the reasons I responded as I did originally is that I believe that Scarlet wants to meet her for her own reasons... not to turely help his wife with her recovery and to ask true forgiveness.<p>But the letter is about as unintrusive as possible.<p>In my previous marriage I believe that my ex-H had at least a four year affair with Kathy. He was also seeing others. Seems he was able to keep Kathy in the dark for some time. Then he had an affair with Ortensia, a friend on mine and the mother of my son's best friend. But again there were others at the same time. My H has never admitted to any of these affairs. The OW'en have never admitted it to me either. This dispite all the evidence I have. I still have it somewhere in storage in a box. My ex-H has continued to tell me that I am crazy and jealous. Has anyone here heard that one before?<p>After thinking about this all day. And after all of my spouting off about it yesterday, I think I would really like it if one, or all, of his OW'en would contact me. It would help me to heal in that I would finally have the pieces I need to get rid of the feelings of uneasyness, the feelings that maybe, just maybe he is right... maybe I am crazy and jealous. <p>So, after reflection, I think the letter is a good idea. She does have the right to know if she wants to. Just realize that she may never contact you. It is her choice.<p>Z

BtDt,
You know, the hardest part about my posting over here is that sometimes I feel flamed by errant assumptions. Were I to post the truth I think that it would be mean and hurtful to those reading here. I understand that you are trying to provide me with your unique POV. I understand that you are attempting to be helpful. I would VERY much like to have a private dialog with you to spare the more tender hearted of the BS's here.
katiescar@hotmail.com<p>Estes,
I'm pretty sure that she knows. However, i'm sure that he's lied about it. I think that she's probably in the battle of gut instinct vs. what he says. There in no question that she knows my name. First and Last.<p>The main reason that I will not contact her is that if she, as the BS, is looking for me to beg forgiveness or anything like that, its' not going to happen. I could walk away and leave her to wonder. I'm POSITIVE that she does. I just think that she has a right to know. <p>I'm sorry that it went on for so long. I'm sorry that I have had so little regard for her feelings. I'm sorry that she's living in the fog of trying to sort this (and many other things) out. I'm sorry that I chose to believe lies about her. Espically when believing those lies fit my needs.<p>I think that I would go mad with so much not adding up for so long. My mom was the BS (when I was a baby) and the one thing that used to drive her nuts was trying to sort it all out, with nobody speaking the truth. In my mother's case, EVERYBODY knew, but NOBODY told her.<p>His W deserves to know. Granted it does not have to come from me, but she deserves to know.

The ow and I had contact, not because she initiated it, but because I did. I sat all three of us down and said, "no more BS". Basically, he stuck up for his OW, told me he hated me, and then he came back. The OW contacted me again at home, to bring me a letter, then after which she told my h., "if you hear anything..I was just being nice". If she were still around I'd slap her again. Actually, having truths between all of us made my h. really mad, but then I knew. Of course, after having contact, now my h. expects me to see all of the wonderful things she does, and how wonderful she thinks I am. Well, I don't care, she saw me before she started a relationship with my h. and I still had my ring on, so if he told her we were waiting for a legality on our d., then it was her stupidity. She had to move out of town because she got so depressed that my h. chose to ignore her and pretend to be with me. I was glad to have the initial contact, but now all I wish is that both of them would have left me the hell alone. Sorry if this is venting and rude, but I've had a s**t week. Write her a letter if you must, but don't go to her in person, apologize, only, only, if you mean it. Are you sad you had an a. with her h.? If not, leave her alone.

Hi, Katie Scarlett. The worst moment in my life was when my husband's OW called me and said "Rose Red? *long pause* This is your husband's girlfriend." I didn't have any suspicions at all at that point. The trauma was terrible, especially because she went on to say a lot of self-serving garbage about how it always bothered her that he wasn't honest with me. Apparently it bothered her not at all to be sleeping with a cheating husband and trying to take him away from his children, but wasn't it awful that he didn't tell me?? (She was trying to get him to move in with her.) To be patronized by the person who collaborated in destroying the relationship I valued above all others was just salt in the wound.<p>Nevertheless, I feel strongly that she did me a favor. Their affair was pretty much over and she claimed to be calling me to make sure it was over, which makes me marvel that my misery was just a useful tool for her. My husband, however, would have never told me about his affair, as he had never told me about a ONS four years ago. Without that knowledge, I would be continuing to live with someone who took advantage of me and used me, without understanding what situation I was in. She gave me some power in my life, although she did it by crushing me under her heel, which hurt like hell.<p>I hate this woman for who she is to me, I hate that my husband ever gave his body to her, I hate that she has experienced an intimacy with him which he promised to be mine alone forever. I hate him, too. But we have children, and I can't just consult my own wishes here.<p>I vote for notheard's letter. That way the W knows and your relationship will definately die, but it would be a kindness to spare her a humiliating confrontation. <p>Rose Red

Wow! I knew I wasn't the ONLY one who felt this way. Sometimes I wonder if I am crazy. Sometimes I wonder if the whole world is crazy and I am the only sane one. <p>My pastor says that opinions are like armpits - there is usually two of them and they both sometimes stink. I think that definately applys to this issue. <p>Thanks Rose Red for posting.

Here is the letter that I sent her this morning (via snail mail):<p>W,
There is no easy way to write this letter. I have gone round and round for a VERY long time about telling to the truth and the timing of it all.<p>The facts of the matter are simple. Since 1994 H and I have had, what I now understand to be, an inappropriate emotinoal relationship. In 1998 that relationship became physical.<p>I hope that you understand that this letter is not easy for me to write, but has become a necessary part of my healing process. Hopefully, in time, it will hasten yours.<p>I will not offer you any shallow apologies as I knew that he was married and continuted the relationship despite that fact. It's been a journey for me to arrive at a place of willingness to let him go. With this letter I assure you that I have arrived.<p>It is my sincerest prayer that we all find a way to heal the past and move forward from here.<p>God Bless.
My first and last name
(my e-mail address)

I think you did the right thing. I am glad you had the courage. <p>Now that the wife knows who her husband is and she doesn't have to sift through who he wants her to think he is...she can make her own decision on where to go from here based on the facts. It may confirm in her mind her sanity. When you are lied to so often you begin to think your crazy cause the facts and words don't match and you want to believe the words but the actions don't match. All that leads to confusion and just plain crazy thinking. <p>I believe that once it is all out in the open it is a real turning point - they can use it to grow together or let go. But staying in the same place where they were is a useless, nonexistance.

notheard,
I really and truely hope that it is!

I agree that it needed to be done, but I seriously question the timing of it.<p>You will forever taint the holidays for her.<p>I wish I had caught on to your intent before it was a done deal.<p>My advice would have been to wait until January or February.<p>Whats the rush now? So that she can get it a week before Christmas and be devasted? <p>Selfish on your part I think.

Well I guess Lexxy in a perfect world this whole deal never would have gone down at all.

Hi KS,
I've been reading your threads, kept out of them because I'm on the other side of a very similar situation. I'm the BS in a marriage where my FWS married me during his ongoing relationship with another woman. He had been involved with her for 10 years when we got married; 5 years in realtime and 5 years in a virtual relationship after she emigrated, and despite her three engagements to other men during that period, and his involvement with another woman. It's a long story; basically they were going to love each other forever, though marriage "would have been a disaster" in my H's words. Both of them were cakepeople; their lifestyles and even their personalities are incompatible, just as you describe your relationship with your MM. Throughout his courtship of me my H was continuing an extremely emotional, passionate, romantic affair with her by email and phone. I started getting uneasy the day after our wedding, when she started leaving provocative voicemails on our home phone, and when she phoned my H both at home and at work 10 times in 5 days - from Tasmania.....I got very hard proof 20 days after our wedding day. He broke off the EA with her 6 months later, had open "just wanna be friends, she's been in my life so long contact" with her another 8 months. Finally they broke off all contact, as her actions were not exactly friendly.<p>The guided tour is just to put you in the picture. I'd like to say upfront that I rather like you, the way you come over. You seem strong, open, and genuinely seeking to build yourself a strong, healthy, happy life that will not hurt anybody else. Nothing of what I'm saying should be taken as a flame. It's my insight from the other side! <p>As the BS in this situation, where my FWH married me because he wanted to spend his life with me, because we're so compatible, because we fit so well - but basically gave me his body and his mind, and the corners of his heart, I was devastated by my discovery that I'd been lied to, married under false pretences and had information that was vital to my happiness and welfare with-held from me. I was cheated and betrayed, made a fool of and totally humiliated. The initial discovery was bad enough, but the real damage was done by the 7 months ongoing emotional affair after discovery.<p>What it comes down to is "good faith." I'm still in therapy for acute clinical depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. What my therapist said that gave me healing is that I have nothing to be ashamed of or guilty about because I married my H in good faith, in full commitment, because I loved him and I meant every word of the vows we spoke - vows, by the way, that we wrote together and which I now feel have no validity whatsoever - so I still sometimes wonder if we are actually married! The piece of paper, after all, is only the visible symbol of the commitment. So if the commitment was a lie, the paper is worth only its recycle value.<p>Our marriage is in recovery; I regret (no longer resent) that we will never have the innocence and pure joy that a brand-new marriage should have had. I'm in IC and we start couples counselling in January. Like you, my FWH has taken full ownership of his share, for what happened, and he is taking responsibility, and -at last- taking ACTION to repair the damage. But while XOW was in the picture, he couldn't. It is not up to you to do anything to "fix" the marriage, but you can avoid sabotaging it by your mere presence. I think you did the right thing by sending that letter; it is a great help to simply know the truth. <p>KS, please don't enter any relationship unless you can do so "in good faith." Just as you would not enter into a business contract unless you intended to follow through, unless you were committed to the project. Don't cheat yourself. That way you'll never cheat or hurt anybody else.

If by chance you are on the receiving end of a letter like that, you will realize how callous it sounded. She needed to be told but not like that.

Agreed that it isn't a perfect world, but why must you contribute to it being so?<p>Get over the past and look at where you are right now. This action was about YOUR need. And the timing stinks.<p>I believe you have some altruistic feelings for the wife, but had you put further consideration towards her you wouldn't have done this NOW.<p>Its been going on for 10 years. A month woulda killed ya?

oops -- dup<p>[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Lexxxy ]</p>

jso,
Thank you for your response. It is amazing to me how UN-unique my story is.<p>There have been several poster here that I thought were his W. And several people that could have been me. Very strange!<p>Anyway, I feel like I made the best decision that I could. And plan to stay away from him. I don't know what will happen in their marriage and to a large degree I really dont care. There was a time in my life when I thought we'd be a happily unmarried couple for all eternity. <p>From my POV that's neither possible or desireable! If for no other reason than the fact that they have 3 kids I hope that they work it out. The one fact of this that has ALWAYS been crystal clear is that those kids have lived through hell!!!!!<p>When it's all said and done, I really hope that everyone finds healing.