My H and I had our second visit with our counselor yesterday. It went pretty good I think. The way she say my H's list of questions was that this list was an ultimatium to me. Basically tell me everything that happened during the affair, before the affair, why I left, why I did the things I did. My H didn't like the word ultimatium but the counselor stated that it could be a good thing. My H wants to find out everything now to be able to work on us. He doesn't want to find out one thing now and then more to things in 6 months or a year from now. He isn't sure that if he finds something out 6 months from now that he could deal with it or want to deal with it. If he asks a question of me, he wants an honest answer from me, he doesn't want me to deny anything and then have him find out that I lied to him sometime down the road. So basically his list of questions is an ultimatium without being and ultimatium. His list of questions is a good thing for us and for him to process everything that has happened.<P>We also talked about why I don't open up and talk with my H. One of the biggest things I said yesterday was that I was scared that if I gave him the answers he wanted he would take my daughter and leave me forever. I don't want to be without my H or my daughter. I did answer all of his questions because I know that is something he needs to be able to heal. But how do I open up and spill my guts when I'm so scared of losing him? I'm the type of person who care about what people think. I don't want to say something that may hurt him more or the slow progress we have made. He has said that I need to tell him things he feels he needs to heal regardless of what it is or if it may hurt his feelings. I just can't seem to get this through my mind. <P>Why am I the type who cares about people's feelings? Why can't I just say okay here is everything that has happened in the last year with me do what you need to do with that information? I know that I need to be completely open and honest with him and if he leaves me he leaves me. I just don't want that to happen. I guess him leaving me is the risk I take by opening up to him and being completely honest with him right? <P>I just hate being this scared little girl who needs to grow up and face her responsibilties. I need to take responsibilty for all the mistakes I have made in my life, answer all the questions with honest response and not hide anything from the man I love. I need to tell him everything and let him sort out this information for himself. If he feels he can't take anymore then it's for the best for everyone in the situation right? I guess I just need to get over this feeling of being scared. It's the only thing that is making things hard for my H and I right now. <P>Anybody have a recking ball to tear down this wall of fear that I have built? I think I need it.<P>

hopeful, yep, I think you do need to be totally honest with him; he needs this in order to alleviate his own doubts and fears. Sometimes the imagining is worse than reality. You're being scared is exactly the way I felt, couldn't imagine losing my H or my children. This is normal, when you love your spouse, to be scared of the hypothetical outcome. I really think that if you, at the the point of full disclosure, can be loving, supportive, show him you care about him tremendously and maybe outline a plan for recovery (and make future plans), it will help him to realize that it won't ever happen again, and you are serious about your commitment. Reassure him of your love, at this point, he's most likely afraid that it could happen again (my H said this), and having the truth regarding details is going to hurt him, no getting around that. Honesty is so important right now to him, he needs it (we all do). Also, ask him what you can do for him that would help him through this. That helped me and my H. From that foundation, complete honesty, you can start to rebuild on a more solid ground. Good luck to you.<p>[This message has been edited by Madelyn (edited September 10, 1999).]

Hopeful, I was the one who was betrayed, but I also had trouble about worrying if I was going to say or do something that would hurt someone else. Take it from me, being honest will bring you closer together. This will be one of the most difficult things you will ever do, but you need to do it for him. I know you have probably already have done this, but tell him how scared you are and tell him you want to trust that no matter what you say he will stay. The bottom line is hopeful he has stayed with you through alot already, I don't think he will leave you now. I didn't with my H, yes it was hard but we are so very close now. There were things from my past I never told him, that I finally shared it was like a door flew open for us. When you tell him some difficult things hold his hands, tell him that is how you felt at the time, but not how you feel now. I learned that with my H, things he said didn't make sense to me, but he explained that was how he felt at that time. Also understand that he still may not be able to make sense of it, I'm still trying and it's been over a year. Hopeful, there is no doubt in my mind that your H loves you dearly, trust in that love. When you start opening up to him, you may start flowing like a broken dam, but he's looking for that from you. Everything you are doing now is right, just keep moving in that direction. You are very strong and telling the truth and opening up will only make the two of you stronger. One more thing, when my H finally opened up to me some things he said hurt and I would get angry or defensive, and he very calmly would say to me, you know I'm telling you the truth and I'm doing this because I love you, please don't be angry. Wow, how could I be angry at him? Keep me posted, and I'll be thinking about the two of you!

Hopeful, this isn't about your fear of your H, it's about your fear of your mom.<P>Remember I told you about critical parent/adaptive child? And about how I no longer act out that "Please don't be angry with me I'll do anything but please don't be angry with me" thing with my mother -- but I act it out with my H?<P>It's an old pattern for you. When you feel this way, you're that scared little girl who's afraid of what Mommy will do to you.<P>I don't have any answers for you, because I'm working on the same problem. But I don't think you're afraid your H will leave you, because if he was going to, he would have. You're re-living an old pattern until you learn a new one.<P>I do the same thing. And my H just doesn't understand. He wonders what he's done to make me so frightened, and there's nothing I can do to explain that it's an old pattern.

Hi all - I'm nowhere near this point in my situation with my wife, but I guess maybe you might be able to open up easier in a less threatening environment...like maybe in front of your therapist? Just a thought.<P>I agree with Madelyn..you must be TOTALLY HONEST with him at all times. DO NOT HIDE ANYTHING! He already is incredibly hurt and your credibility probably can't be any lower with him. Lies of deception or lies of ommission will only cement his distrust of you.

I'm a lot like ES and could compose a "list" for 3 different affairs, but I know H will not even attempt to answer. Affairs shatter trust and create a major chasm between the two spouses, w/each person on one side w/their own "truths". Loads of things to sort out to close that "gap". For many betrayed, complete honesty (although knowingly hurtful) is a major step to closing the gap and allowing the betrayed to take the steps toward you. On the other hand, when that honesty is not forthcoming, the betrayed is left to wonder and can get "stuck". Its very damaging to know that your spouse has the answers but just refuses to give them to you. I understand the betrayers reasons for withholding (protection, guilt, etc.), but at a time when you are trying to recover from deceit, it is tough for the betrayed to understand your unwillingness. Just as the betrayer chose to have the affair w/o consent of spouse, withholding answers "appears" to be yet another "selfish" choice. <P>What encourages me about you is that you are taking the time to really understand your apprehension. I often wonder if the betrayed withhold to out of selfishness or fear. In your case, its fear. But as someone else suggested, ES most likely doubtful and fearful also. The only way around a problem is through it. Take a chance...I think you'll be happy you did!<P>Good Luck and God Bless!

Hi Hopeful -<P>Glad to see you making threads and posting again!!! Guess the storms have passed through your area..<P>I agree with everyone - you have to be honest. I understand your fears but the biggest part that you should have been afraid of is past. If ES is still there and wants so much to work things out after finding out about the affairs then any words or thoughts are not going to send him running now!!<P>I'm sure that ES knows that there were reasons why you did what you did - he just needs to know them and then you both can clear the air about any mysteries that could linger and fester.<P>By telling him everything - it would be out in the open and both of you might pick up on what needs attention in your marriage and in yourselves.<P>BE NOT AFRAID!!!! This is good for healing and rebuilding. It will not tear things down further.<P>I also think that Dazed had a very good point with the substituting ES for mom theory. Think on that. It could be very beneficial for you to recognize for yourself.<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Anybody have a recking ball to tear down this wall of fear that I have built?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How's this . . . I love you hopeful. I have every intention of spending the rest of my life with you.<P>Is this a big enough recking ball?<P>I LOVE YOU

Hopeful,<BR> I also want my H to open up to me. The fact that he won't (although he finally admitted his one-night stand) only serves to reinforce my fears that this happened more than once.<BR> He has agreed to go to counselling with me--to try it out, although he doesn't "believe in that stuff." I had to tell him that if he wouldn't go, then I was through. I'm hoping that he will somehow come to understand that I NEED to know everything in order to work it out. Right now, he thinks that because I've told him that I forgive him for the affair, that should be it--no more discussion, no talking about it. I've tried to tell him that even though I forgive him for the cheating, I'm still hurting from the years and years of lies and mistreatment from him (maybe because of his guilt--to justify cheating? I dunno.)<BR> Anyway, I know that it is probably very painful for you to talk about it, but it is also so very painful for ES to not know the things he needs to know.

Thanks for the responses. I know that I still have some doubts though about openning up all the way. I feel that there is 100% garrantee that I won't same something that won't make him throw his hands up and walk away. He told the counselor on Thursday that he feels I haven't told him everything. I can't think of anything that I am hiding from him. I did answer all of his questions on the list. I tried to answer them as honestly as I could.<P>Dazed - I understand what you are saying about this unable to talk because of the crap I went through with my mom. But my H isn't my mom. He wants to take care of me but not like my mom wanted to. I feel that by saying I had problems with my mom and that I was scared of her being mad at me that I'm blaming her for the way I am. I feel that I'm trying to blame her for everything that's wrong in my life. I feel that it isn't all her fault, its mine because I was trying to please her without hurting her or make her mad. I feel that is what I'm trying to do with my H. Make him happy by telling him what he wants to hear or do what I think he wants me to do but without making him angry or hurt him. I guess by not talking is hurting him and that is something I don't want to do. Silly me. I guess I'm just helping myself by writing here huh?<P>I have a question. Is it normal to feel guilty while my H and I heal? Is it normal for all the guilt that I felt in the past for what I have done should come rushing back everytime my H brings up something from the past? Like the other night we say a lady at Wal-Mart buy over $300 in food most of it canned food and hamburger helper. On the way home my H brought up the fact that when I left that was mainly all that was in the house was canned food. I felt soooo guilty for everything that I have done to him. I know that certain things need to be brought up for us to heal but does everything have to make me feel guilty and I regress back to beating myself up for the mistakes I have mede?<P>Here I am rambling. I guess I should just not worry about every little thing and just let my feelings come out and be a lot more open and honest. I just hate this feeling. I guess I'm just to concerned about what people think about me, I want everyone to like me. Big conflict avoider. I even hate debates. My H doesn't care all that much about peoples opinions, if they like him great if not oh well. Wish I could be that way. <P>Empty Shell - Thanks, I think I needed to hear that. I love you too!<BR>

Yes, it's totally normal to feel guilty, I feel guilty still to this day, but it's lessened, the more you heal, the less guilt you feel, and that's a good thing. It's not because you've forgotten, it's because you are now progressing to the stage of healing and moving forward. Please know that there are others that have been where you are, it's not at all unusual to feel that way. I feel guilty about the smallest things, but like I've said, it's gotten better, the more we heal and come together (in the marriage) the better it gets. It's like traveling a road, the farther you get down it, the closer you know you are to your destination. Take care