Ok, now that I've got my wife's attention, I'm not kidding. If you've opened this thread, please don't read it. I know it's VERY tempting, just like the thought of reading your journal was tempting when you moved back in.... but I didn't. There are thoughts and feelings here that I'm not ready to express to you. There are things here that I fear will affect you, one way or the other, and I DO NOT want to do that (for good, or ill). If you REALLY must know, ask me and I'll share as much as I feel comfortable. If you respect me at all, and I believe you do, PLEASE close this thread NOW!<p>That being said, here's the update that I need to make.<p>I'm hoping that someone can explain to me exactly what's going on inside my head and heart.<p>As far as the update part goes, there's not much to be said. W moved out last Saturday (two weeks to the day from when she moved back in). I've seen her once, and spoken to her once or twice in the last week. No talk about anything significant, and that's ok by me.<p>The problem (at least I THINK it's a problem) is that I'm becoming comfortable with the idea of being "single." For the first time in YEARS, I have a clear conscience, and actually feel GOOD about myself. I'm out of the darkness of my depression, I'm confident, I'm working out and look good again..... quite frankly, I'm quite a catch! I know that sounds pretty cocky, but that's the ME that's been buried for so many years. I KNOW I'm a good and attactive person, I just haven't shown it for years.<p>I desperately wish I'd shown my wife this side of me years ago, but I didn't. Now, she's basically forced me to re-find myself and I'm thankful for that. I DO love her tremendously, but I'm coming to the conclusion that she's mad her decision, and I'm coming to accept that.<p>This is what I've feared all along. I'm sorry that I'm a good judge of character (particularly my own), and that when I am SO sure about a particular outcome, it often comes to pass...but, maybe that's just a gift of clarity that I've been given. I've begged my wife to not force me to have to make the choice to let her back into my heart after I've closed her out. That's what I fear is beginning to happen (the closing out part).<p>As each day passes, I become more self confident, I notice the many wonderful women out there that I COULD be with. I realize that it's not too late for love for me. I fear that I may never have children if not with wife, but I know that that's based in some childhood issues that I have. My dad was a broken down old man by the time I was a teenager, and I don't want to be that man. I realize that his blue collar life and my white collar life would probably make a huge difference in that, but it's still a fear that I have.<p>Steve asked that I schedule my next meeting with him if something changed, and I think that W moving back out probably qualifies. But I also think I know what he'd have to say..... If my love is waning (which it may very well be doing), then go to plan B; if not, then continue in the best plan A that I can (which has very little to do with W, anyway).<p>I'm not trying to overthing this (which I'm often guilty of), I just see where things are going, and I'm a little afraid...but slowly accepting it.<p>Is this normal? I have no idea, that's why you all are here. Is it normal for me to CONSIDER finding a girlfriend of my own? I'm pretty sure it is. But I realize that that'd do ABSOLUTELY no good, and I won't do that based purely on my conviction to NEVER commit adultery again. Part of me thinks maybe that'd shake W out of her fog, but I know that's absurd. It'd only give her MORE reason to leave our marriage.<p>I thought about Orchid's reply to Boppo's request for happy endings (I believe). It was a link to Susan what's her name's site (divorcebusting.com) and the particular page was regarding walkaway wives. I don't think that anyone could have described our marital relationship more appropriately. I hope W will read that thread and check out the link. MAYBE it'd give her a little hope, a little understanding that we're NOT completely unique in our situation.<p>I guess my point is that I'm settling into resignation. I know that the next move will be made by my wonderful wife and I have no control over it. Right now, I love her, and would try my absolute best to reconcile and meet her every need.....but I know that that opportunity has a limited time and is slowly diminishing.<p>Your sage input is more than welcome.<p>Take care all,
Kev<p>[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

((((Kev)))))
First of all lots of hugs.
I know how you feel, for some reason I was feeling like that a couple of weeks ago. I was regaining my self-steem, my independance, I was me again and I did like that.
I liked not having to think about my H and his A all the time. I liked to be away, and I even considered a life without him, dating even [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>But alas I am lucky, and my H is still here and plan Aing me, what else could a girl want?<p>My advice to you... hang in there, let HER make the decision, don't let yourself do it and then regret it down the road.<p>Yes you love your wife, but she is a grown up, and I can tell she is a very intelligent one (her posts tell me so). She has the power to know what will make her happy, and she will let you know if she is a good human being.<p>On the mean time, continue to work on yourself, you have come a long way from the Energizer Bunny days.<p>Lots of luck.

Kev,<p>Well I don't know about sage advice. But I can offer you some insight about having children a bit older. I didn't marry until I was your age. My youngst is just 15 and my oldest is now 21 almost 22. I am almost 57. I still play basketball with them, and still go backpacking with the youngst in scout outings. Did a 3 day 150 mile bike ride last summer, and then hiked, kyaked (sp) for 4 days.<p>Further, since I am older I am done with the corroporate climb. When he or other children play a sport I am there. When the two older ones went to college, the money was there. I have a lot more patience with them than I would have at 30-40.<p>In short, you are not even close to being too old to have children and be active with them.<p>As for seeing other woman, smart call. You are married and remember that. As for your W and your feelings you are now seeing the benefit of the Harley plan. You cannot really lose. YOu have done your best to save your marriage, but you have also had time to address your short comings and hers. You are coming to understand her and yes, yourself.<p>You can rebuild or you can leave and do this with much less pain than before. I see this as the essence of the method. You are eventually prepared no matter how it turns out.<p>Personally, I hope you W sees the light. I do think you are now ready for plan B. YOu have done your best plan A and it did it's job. YOu have planted seeds in your W's mind. Now step back and see if they grow. If not, the next step is much smaller.<p>Sorry, I could not give you any sage advice, but I do see a positive change in you.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

kevco how nice to read such a positive update about you. It seems you are finding a part of yourself that has been lost. Getting strong and finding your self confidence is a wonderful thing [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>One suggestion though, a woman, any woman, your wife, a girlfriend, isn't the answer to the question that is within your heart. There is no woman who can make you whole. You need to become the man you want to be with or without a woman in your life. <p>Just my humble opinion but you are relatively new in adjusting to your wife's A and all the fall out that goes along with it. Go slowly and become the best you that there can be. I keep remembering part of a poem a friend sent me.<p>"You learn to build your roads on today
Because tomorrow's ground is too uncertain for plans,
And futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight
After a while you learn that even sunshine burns if you get too much
So you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul
Instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers
And you learn that you really can endure
That you really are strong and you really do have worth"<p>You can't make someone love you, you can only become a person who feels worthy of being loved and the rest is in God's hands. Good luck and God bless

First!<p>Hi Jill!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] hehe I would have read it too. hehe... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Kevin,<p>Finding out that you will not crawl in a hole and die if she doesn't come back, and that you like this new found independence and can be happy with you being alone is a good thing.<p>I do think Jill better know what she's doing she's losing a great man for some guy that I think has very little chance of truly making her happy. I think she knows this too.<p>Take care and c'ya,<p>ANNA

Kev,<p>See my previous post: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=015264<p>Yeah - kind of sounds like what you're going through a bit, no?? I feel for you, and as you can see, I'm "getting there" too.<p>In other words - I think it's normal! Don't feel bad about it (as much as you can anyway).<p>As for Jill reading this stuff - in the end, whether she knows about Plan A, B or C - who cares, really? She doesn't own your soul - and you'll make the decisions that make sense for you, when they make sense for you. And since they're designed for YOU, it doesn't really matter what she thinks (no offense, WS's out there!).<p>You (and I hope I) have changed a lot, learned a lot and grown a lot, and so, yes, you (and I) will make someone very, very happy someday relatively soon. I think everyone knows this - even our WW's - if they can't accept it, it's their loss. We've certainly tried.

Oh Kev!<p>You've reached the point of great things! No, it's not abnormal. I got there too, but I think I got there sooner than you did. When Louise was threatening to file for D, I was steadfast. I told her "I have no off button as far as our marriage goes." I was wrong. She filed, I cried, then I faced "the facts." I thought to myself, "she's quit. There's not a damn thing I can do about it except move on in the strongest and most graceful way I can." So I kept working on me. And I started trying to focus on the positives in the cr*ppy situation I was in. I'm not sure how it fits into Harley's plan, but I think of it as sort of a modified Plan B. But my focus wasn't "let her see the new better me and maybe she'll come back." It was more like "move on Bill!" She had told me a few times in the period of a month that she didn't want a divorce (the divorce she filed for). But I didn't trust her (she'd already asked to try again once and then split a month later). <p>I still don't know what changed (in her or in me). But I do know that we're VERY strong now.<p>But Kev, Just Learning hit the nail on the head. You've learned a lot here. You've learned things that still just might save your marriage. You've also learned stuff that will make loosing your marriage bearable, if that's what comes to fruition! Not good, but not the overwhelming disaster it could have been. Let Jill do whatever Jill is going to do. Let God guide you. DON'T DATE!!!! Not yet. You'll only end up hurting yourself and the girl(s). If Jill wants to divorce, then wait until it's final, then wait a few months (the experts say 1 - 2 years...yeah right!). I never did date when Louise and I were separated, but I wanted to. Think how hard and cr*ppy it would have been to start dating some girl, find out that there's hope for my marriage and then have to discontinue the other relationship. What a terrible thing to do to some nice person. "I know I said we were definitely getting a divorce, but uh…I was wrong."<p>One question, someone said that Jill has posted here. What's her user name?<p>Take it easy Kev. Stay strong, enjoy life.

Bill,<p>If Jill has posted here, I don't know about it. Maybe the person was referring to the "letter" that I thought Jill would write if she were to post here. I wrote that probably about 5 or 6 weeks ago. <p>She's said that she's been tempted to (and even wrote a draft) log on using my ID (cookied on our home PC) and berate all the folks here that seem to know oh so much about her. I keep telling her that sure, there are some folks here that are in too much pain, or are too self centered, or just think they know too much to be of much help. But like any advice we get ANYWHERE, you have to weed out the bad and build on the good. At least the people here KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Any advice I may have given in the past regarding infidelity and marital problems was just so much hot air, I can't even believe it.<p>I'm just a little uncertain right now about what I even WANT. I'm so angry at her for putting me through this. On many levels, I think that her affair was SO MUCH worse than mine (but I realize that there may be some gender differences there). I resent her for giving up on me; us. I resent that she won't even listen to what I have to say when I KNOW that I'm probably right. I'm SO angry for her not figuring it out by now. <p>Right now, tonight, I'd gladly take her back with open arms. But tomorrow, or the next day.... who knows. I'm fast getting used to the fact that I may well be single soon (it's WAY TOO easy to get divorced in this state). And that fact really doesn't bother me all that much. Sure I'll miss having Jill to hold and to share the many wonderful things that life has to offer, but I do see the potential to share that with others.<p>I think Jill and I are a very well matched couple (at least we COULD be and once were), but I know that there are others that I'd get along with just fine.<p>I guess what I'm saying is that I'm in no great hurry to accept her back right now. I don't want that to be taken that she should just go out and continue with her affair. I would much rather she deal with US first. She has a lot of anger and resentment towards me (how much of that is deflecting her own guilt away from herself, I don't know and won't guess at). But my conscience is clear. I've laid it all out on the table for her to choose, and while she's deciding..... tick tock, tick tock. My countdown clock is running.<p>Jill, if you're reading this, and I hope that you aren't, then I don't want for you to take that as me saying that if you just hold out, I'll be the one filing for divorce. I don't believe that we SHOULD get a divorce. I don't think that the problems that we have warrant us walking away from God's contract, and our marriage; not like this.<p>Take care all, I'll update in a week or so. In the meantime, I do read the boards, and I'll post to folks if I think I might be able to help.<p>Kev

Hi Kev,<p>1st off, it wasn't my post to Boppo. I couldn't find who it was. Can't take any credit for that one. But hope it helped. <p>2nd, yep the BS does wonder about wandering when the BS learns they are not the ugly orgre monster person they have been made out to be. That is when the endurance test really begins. Part of the recovery cycle for many. Especially those of us dealing with difficult recoveries. <p>Hang in there buddy. I hope your W eventually will post. There have been some couples posting that have been helpful and other couples where after a few trials and blind spots have learned they actually have a better chance at recovery than those who don't post. It is a hard place to be when you are a WS but it can also be a healing place. <p>With that said, I wish you well and strongly suggest to keep your eyes straight ahead of you and don't look down. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

It's normal, that's part of what plan A is about, getting yourself back to the person you love.<p>It's scary, but re-assuring at the same time. You have already said you are not going to act on anything, and since coming to MB, you are aware of what an EA is, so you can prevent that as well...<p>You'll do okay.<p>I hope she comes around soon as well. Like you said, "you are quite the catch". [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>HbH

Kev, I started thinking about the possibility of dating lately too... it actually sounds and seems a little fun, compared to all of this bs, right? <p>I am not going to,but guess it is a good sign for both of us, that we feel desirable again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] , just don't go for it!<p>I know it is hard...<p>Keep trying... and do things for you, so that you are Ok all by yourself without someone else for a while... give your W time... time heals.<p>HONEY