I have not posted here for quite a while, but would like some advice. For a brief review, my husband entered into an affair with a co-worker approximately 16 months ago. The reasons for him doing this stemmed from low self-esteem to a need for feeling "important" or powerful. My husband has always maintained that he never had feelings for the OW, and that the relationship started out with just being friendly and helping her with her problems by listening to her and offering advice. To make a long story somewhat short, she offered more and he bit. He states that after meeting her for the second time, the enormity of what he had done to me and our marriage hit him, and a fear like he had never known set it; a fear of me finding out and a fear of him losing everything he loved, me, his family, his home, his job. He had just recently been promoted at work, ironically, and he was also very afraid the OW would tell someone at work, and he would lose his job, as his bosses were very straight-laced. My husband said in just a few short weeks he realized OW was emotionally unstable and she began acting very possessive and needy, constantly wanting to talk to him and have him meet her. Mistakingly not trusting my love or power of forgiveness, he began a big cover-up with the goal of me not ever finding out, and the OW getting fed up with him not being available, and she'd back down and figure he wasn't worth the effort. After refusing to meet her repeatedly and her constantly calling his cell phone, he agreed to meet her after work for a few minutes in her or his car to talk. This went on for a year with two more episodes of him meeting her at a motel, and a few encounters of her giving him oral sex in the car. He states she was out of control and acting desperate, and everything he did was to buy more time in order to try to figure out how to get out of the mess he was in without me finding out. He realizes how stupid this thinking was, and how he made everything worse by continuing to meet her. He understands now that it would have been much easier for me to forgive one or two encounters with her, rather than a year's worth, but he wasn't thinking rationally, nor did he think I would or could forgive him. By the way, he wasn't her supererior at work, they worked in two different roles there. He has always maintained that he never met her at night, he never gave her cards or gifts, never told her he loved her or would be there for her. He said he always advised her to try to work things out with her husband, as she would be hurting alot of people needlessly. Anyway, as it got closer to the summer, OW started calling our home to see if he would answer the phone. She always called on her cell phone so that I wouldn't see her name on the caller ID. I was so blissfully unaware that I never suspected a thing. Other than this horrible secret, my husband was everything a woman would want. I never at any time felt unloved, unwanted, or that something was going on.<p>DDay for me was October 12, when OW told her husband about the affair, and he called our home. It was the worst shock of my life. Apparently, my husband couldn't take the lies and deception anymore, and he emphatically told OW he would not meet her or talk to her ever again, except when he had to at work in order not to be conspicuous. She flipped out and told her husband, I guess to be spiteful. To make matters worse, I was on the verge of finding out if I would need emergency surgery within the next few days. As it turned out, the surgery was able to be put off for a month, and my husband and I spent the worst of many weeks going over and over how this could have happened, etc. He says he always loved me, was in love with me, and could not believe he could do such a thing. He swore he only continued to meet with her because he felt trapped, and as the weeks and months went by he just kept getting sucked deeper and deeper into this dark hole, with no way out without me finding out. He says he felt used and manipulated by her. When he finally had the courage to tell her it was over, and couldn't stand himself anymore, she did was he feared she would do.<p>My husband and I have worked very hard over the past several months to try to heal from this horrific mess. He takes complete responsibility for what he has done, and has been very, very remorseful, doing everything he can to make it up to me. We've read all sorts of books on infidelity, and talked and talked, and talked some more. I have had a very, very hard time dealing with this. One of the things I wanted my husband to do was to write the OW a letter explaining why he got involved with her in the first place. I felt unsettled in the fact that he never told her he didn't want to be with her because he loved me, and he didn't want to meet her because he didn't WANT to, not because he couldn't. He says he never told her those things because he was so afraid she would retaliate by telling me, so he tryed to appease her by saying they shouldn't meet, he couldn't meet her, he had to go home, etc. I needed her to know that he didn't want to meet her, and he wanted to go home, etc., because he loved me and wanted his life with me. I hated the fact that she might be walking around thinking he was pining away for her, and only was with me because he didn't want to hurt me, or it was too inconvenient to leave me. Anyway, my husband was adamantly against writing the letter to the OW. He said he can't stand even thinking about her, let alone communicating with her. I tried to explain to him that I needed him to do this, that it was for me. We had several horrible fights about it, and then I dropped it for awhile. Last week though, after a terrible weekend with me crying all the time, I asked him again to write the letter, and he agreed. He let me read it and then I mailed it. In the letter he explained to OW that he always loved me, he still loved me, and that he got involved with her not out of a need of wanting her or wanting to be with her, but for various other reasons that she had no right to know, but of which I now know. He explained why he allowed the affair to go on for so long, about his fear, etc.<p>I have to tell you that I did contact OW a few days after DDay to question her, and she told me some very hurtful things, which I verified as for the most part lies or truth with embelishments on her part to hurt me more. I also wrote her two letters, the first one to tell her that I am a real person who she hurt very badly, and that I would not give up on my husband or marriage, and that I did not hate her, but felt sorry for her, because obviously she was a very misguided person and, the second one to ask why she had to tell and hurt all these people, me and her husband included. After both letters she called me at home to tell more more misconceptions and half-truths, and to act like she was the victim. All in all, it was a very bad thing for me emotionally to have ever contacted her at all, as she is not a nice person and it was not a healing experience for me like I thought it would be, but after my husband wrote her his letter, I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. It was the first weekend I spent without crying at all, and actually feeling somewhat happy and hopeful for the future. It was extremely helpful for me to know that OW now knew exactly where my husband was coming from in his relationship with her. She also called me a few weeks ago to tell me that she had just come back from her therapist's and that she had to call me and tell me she was very sorry for what she did to me, but that she was a mess because I didn't know what my husband did to her "emotionally". I said "okay", and then hung up. My husband was furious when I told him this. He maintains that he tried everything he could to let her know he did not want to be in this relationship short of actually saying it in those words, because he did not want her to tell me and he did want her to end it on her own. I have copies of phone bills from the past year showing how many times she called his cell phone, and the calls were never longer than a minute or two. He says she would call begging him to talk or meet her, he would say no, he couldn't, and hang up. She even called our home at the end of the summer and left a message that sounded like she was drunk, in which she said, "I feel like dying without you". I thought it was just some crazy person calling a wrong number, but he recognized her voice. Apparently she was calling from vacation with her husband. My husband says he also always talked at work about what we did recreationally, where we went, weekends away, vacations, our home improvements, etc., to show her that he had a life with me and was very happy. He says she always got up and left when he was talking about me or our life together to all the co-workers. He says he never misguided her or led her to believe anything different.<p>Anyway, I mailed my husband's letter to OW last week, and yesterday when I got home from work I checked my e-mail, and there was one from her to me! I stupidly gave her my e-mail address with the first letter I wrote her so she could reply to my questions in case she didn't want to talk on the phone, but she never used it, she called me instead. In this e-mail, which she didn't even use a salutation in, she says, "I guess you had your surgery and it went fine. I hope all is well". What is that all about?? Obviously she got my husband's letter. She knew about my surgery because a few days after I initially found out, she approached my husband at work to ask him to meet her to "talk", and he told her "no, I love my wife and I'm trying to work things out with her, and I suggest you do the same with your husband", and he also told her that he hopes she is happy that I found out right before I needed surgery.<p>She took a leave of absence from work a few days after DDay for "mental health reasons", and hasn't been back since, and my husband just started a new job, thank God, so he hasn't spoken to her other than the letter I asked him to send, since then, which was in October. <p>Why do you think she e-mailed me now? My husband again is pointing out that she is crazy, unstable, dangerous, and up to something, which he says is why he did not want to write the letter. I'm wondering, do you think she could actually be remorseful and feels guilty, or do you think she's trying to find out if I'm still around? Should I reply to her and ask her not to contact me again, or should I just ignore it? Why doesn't she now just go away once and for all? Any words of wisdom out there?

Have you read the book "Surviving an Affair"? If you have not, I highly suggest that both you and your H read it. In it there is a no contact letter. It's simple, short and to the point. Your H needs to send that type of letter to her.<p>I can understand how his letter to her makes you feel better. But I fear that it has opened a hornet's nest. Why did she email you? She's poking at you to see where you are vulnerable. Expect some repercussions from her now. IMHO it would have been better if your H's letter had been written for your sake but never mailed. Dr. Harley does not suggest this type of letter at all.<p>Remember that communications can only continue if both sides interact. By sending the letter, your forced your H to have continued contact with her.<p>I understand your anger with her. But your issues are with our H, not with her.<p>Please take a look at the book. Then you and your H need to write the no contact letter, as in Surviving and Affair. Then you, your H and she need to stop communicating. <p>As for her email. I’d send her a reply stating that you have no desire to communicate with her and that any further communications from her will be interpreted as harassment and dealt with in a legal manner. I understand that there is a part of you that needs to reclaim your place as his wife and to show her that he loves YOU. But it’s done now. Leave things well enough alone. Unless of course your intent is to hear more ugly, distorted garbage from her.

Teresa,<p>I don't know why she sent the email, but I would leave well enough alone and not reply or contact her again. You have said your peace, so has your husband. There is nothing more to say or discuss. I would avoid her like the plague from here on out. I think she is a loose cannon and the slightest provocation could set her off and end up causing harm to both you and your H. Please avoid her at all costs, there is nothing more to be discussed.<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</p>

Teresa - Please avoid the temptation to read anything this woman sends you. Delete it before you open it!<p>Consider that every word she says is a poisonous seed intended to hurt you and your husband. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not; if you expose yourself to it, you get the poison and it might not be felt for a while, but eventually, the poison will do it's dirty work and grow toxins in your marriage. <p>Believe me. I've been there. Done that. NEVER EVER AGAIN.<p>I even figured out how to block the OW e-mail from even getting to my e-mail box. It can be done in the server's e-mail software program, and it can be done in Outlook Express. <p>I like the legal threat warning too. She needs to know that you will not tolerate stalking in any form. If you don't get that message across to her now, she sounds unstable enough to do more than just plant poison seeds in your mind...

Thanks for the advice, zorweb. I guess my husband was right about not sending that letter. It's just that it felt so good to know that OW now has no illusions as to what my husband and her relationship was. My husband definitely felt sending the letter might open a "Pandora's box", but I strongly believed it would help me heal, as it tortured me to think she thought he was only with me out of loyalty or something. I actually for the first time in months wasn't obsessing over the affair. I don't understand why that letter though can't be interpreted as a "no contact" letter since he emphatically stated that after explaining things to her he would never contact her again? I didn't want to reply to her e-mail for that specific reason alone. I don't have the book "Surviving an Affair", but will order it today. Thanks.<p>MelodyLane and KaylaAndy: Thanks, I will definitely take your advice. My husband was so uneasy last night. He says OW is like a cancer that just keeps spreading. I am going to e-mail her right now to tell her that all that needs to be said has been said, and that there is no need to contact each other again, and then I will figure out how to block her e-mails. When I initially opened her e-mail, I didn't know it was from her, and it actually took me a few minutes to figure it out, I thought it was from someone else who has the same condition that I have and who I had spoke to briefly through an e-mail in the past, until I remembered that her name wasn't the one signed. OW signed it only with her first name. Isn't it a shame that WS' don't have the foresight to recognize unstable people in the first place. Then again, isn't it a shame that miscommunication between spouses causes circumstances like this to ever have to happen. My husband can't stop saying enough times how sorry he is that I have to go through this.<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: TeresaT ]</p>

that is quite a story teresa, I think every bs wants to think the op is some crazed lunatic that practiced mind control on their ws, who really is, if not a perfect spouse, almost so....but the fact is your H demonstrated a whole bunch of very bad behaviours too, including using this woman, and not having the strength of character to deal with it honestly (leading this woman on for a year, to protect his own butt (and make no mistake, he was not protecting anyone but himself, that is how losers work, and they excuse it a million different ways you wanna hear so you will forgive em). So what if he gets fired, so what if his wife leaves him, those are the consequences and a man owns up to them, and accepts his lumps, not scurrying about in the dark trying to hide the truth. Is interesting the thing about straitlaced bosses, your H is willing misrepresent himself (lie) to them by concealing the truth about himself...instead of admitting his mistake, and regret, and seeking their assistance (since worked with ow). I doubt you will ever know the full truth teresa, a year is a very long time, not to mention repeated sexual episodes after he supposedly wanted to break it off, I don't believe he tried that hard, and had she been less clingy, and made a good mistress, might have gone on a very long time, for reasons I doubt your H even wants to face. Hence his inappropriate responses when you stir things up. IMO is fine to forgive him, and I do think people can have an eppihany from time to time, but if he hasn't, he needs to dig a lot deeper, and talk a lot more about how all this happened, and kept happening, until full understanding is reached, not just forget it and move on....It seems now the basis of his good behaviour is what he risked losing, that is a very poor motivator, or reason to be married, and hardly makes you feel safe. <p>Teresa, I would suggest you quit blaming the ow, she had no special control over your H, he did what he wanted to do, and shifting blame to her is a big red flag IMO. I think you know that, and is why you were insistent on closing the loop, you seem to be an introspective person, and you knew this did not all add up right, and your H behaviour not jiving right with what he is saying. Even if the ow is an emotional wreck, all the more reason your H should not have allowed this to continue. I suspect if you could wear her skin for a day, you might see this is not quite all it seems. Even if he does not admit it, your H led her on too, encouraged her too, by his behaviour, and if your H is more stable, it was his duty not to take advantage of her instability, that is the way life works. I can only speak for me, but I (if in a similar situation) would find out everything I could about op, so I can fully understand what happened....but then I value truth above most all else, and cannot function well when I am missing pieces. So I do not think there is anything wrong with your interactions (assuming you can handle it) with the ow, she is just a person, and it really makes no difference what she did with your H, all that is really important is deep down in your secret places, do you believe, and trust your H? And part of getting there is understanding what happened, and obviously the ow and her rendition of the facts is critical to that understanding. But it is a judgement call, you will pay a price for your interactions (as you have found out), and there is some risk with keeping ow in your life too, but IMO clarification usually makes such things worth it. I doubt very seriously I would be likely to give a spouse a second chance, but if I did, I would need to know everything, from all parties, and then I would assess what that means in terms of marital success. I would not simply accept an apology and let's move on (counsel, follow principles, etc.), I pretty much view affairs as fatal to a marriage, cause it says alot about the ability of two people (in the marriage) to bond, to ever be the safe nurturing place intimacy should be.<p>You can ignore all this if you want teresa, I only wrote my opinions cause you have said you value such things. I am not knocking your H, this is simply an alternative focus. I wish you and your H well.<p>as for her return email I would answer it, and ask her what her intentions are. It is unlikely I would express much anger, or vindictiveness, mostly I would be intensely curious about this person who affected my life, and you never know what value you may find in the interaction, life is funny that way. But if you ascertain she is certifiable, then IMO that would be the end of it, there is little value in dealing with actual crazy people. Frankly I don't think you got the whole story, I think you got the story your H wants you to believe, and I think you know that....heck as time goes on, he will even start to believe his own lies, but from what you have said here (assuming you are accurate) something in the patterns does not add up, and that is what is behind your insistence on the letter, and the followup, trust your instincts teresa [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Good luck.

Dear Teresa,<p>I`ll tell you why she`s trying to contact you, for the same reason my H`s OW tries to contact me.<p>My H made it very clear to her that he wanted nothing more to do with her and so now she tries to contact him through me. Now she doesn`t come right out and say that but that`s exactly what she is doing. We were friends before this happened so she does have a bit of leverage in that sense but my H sent a no contact letter, I sent a no contact letter and then my H again sent another one. We should have just stuck with just one no contact letter. She`s still trying to contact us. We are no longer responding. Now what she`s up to is getting asking a friend of hers to call our home (a 17 year old woman that H and I don`t know) and having her ask for my H to drive her to a nearby town. My H and I have discussed these phone calls, H and and confronted the young girl`s father TOGETHER, TWICE and let him know the score and asked him to have a talk with his daughter. The phone calls have stopped. I KNOW my H doesn`t know this girl. We both think it`s the OW trying to worm her way back in by using this silly young girl to get my H alone. <p>The OW has sent ME several letters saying that she is in dire straights, is going to prison, has lost her children to child welfare, and is going to kill herself. I don`t answer these letters. She addresses them solely to me. She gets it now, I know who she is and what she`s up to and for her to be able to worm her way back in she`ll have to go through me. Since that hasn`t worked she has enlisted a twit to help her see my H alone. <p>Our H`s OW`s are sick twisted puppies. They always have been always will be. They are both borderline stalkers. The best thing to do is IGNORE them. H and I are very open with one another about her attempts to contact us. If one of us spots her in public we let the other one know immediately. This is a team effort. Neither one of us wants anything more to do with her. Completely ignore any more efforts of hers to contact you. Even negative attention will egg her on. I can`t tell you for sure how much longer your OW will keep trying, 18 months later our OW is still at it but at least her attempts at contact don`t work me into a frenzy any more. <p>I have no control over our OW or what she does but I do have control over my reaction to it. She is nothing more than an insignificant piece of biological debris. She no longer has ANY power over me or my H.

btw teresa, I said loser in my post in reference to the 1 year long behavioural pattern, is was loser behaviour. very self-serving...not that your H is a loser himself, but he does have a lot to answer for. An affair that is more or less a friendship gone awry is bad enough, but to continue for a year with an ow as you have represented doesn't say a whole lot for your H.

Dear snl:<p>Thank you for your reply. I have to tell you, you are almost 100% correct in the way I feel. I have no misconceptions in thinking this was only the OW's fault, and I am not placing the blame on her. Her and my husband were both equally at fault. He knows it and admits it, and everything you said to me I said to him, from him leading her on to taking advantage of her. I felt that everything he did was to save his own butt, more than protecting me from finding out the truth. Yes, I do believe he did not want to lose me or want me to find out, but I have always maintained and still do that he should have taken the high road and immediately confessed to me what he had done and taken the consequences and lived with them. He feels that unless I have felt a fear like he did I will never understand, and he is right. He likens it to being blackmailed or turning traitor, and then all further actions build on that until there is a wall of lies and deceptions. You're also right in that I will never know the whole truth, no matter how much I dig and delve. So what to do? I love my husband, I believe he loves me, and I think he has enough great qualities to want to stay with him. Do I trust him? What choice do I have if I choose to stay with him? Let's just say that my eyes are now "WIDE OPEN", and I have become a great detective. Never again will I blindly trust anyone. If I have any inkling of something not being right I will act on it. Never again will I think I have a perfect marriage or a perfect husband, as that was dangerous thinking in the past. I do have to give him the benefit of the doubt in that I believe he will never put himself in a situation like this again. I think he and I have learned a terrible lesson. As for the OW, I actually did try to get to know her and find out what was going on in her life to allow herself to get involved with my husband, and to let her know that I did forgive her and wanted all of us to get on with our lives, but she couldn't or wouldn't be completely honest. She out and out lied to me several times for no other reason than to be hurtful. I decided that I had to stop communicating with her because I no longer knew what were lies and what were truths from what she was telling me. In one breath she was telling me she was sorry and the next acting like I should feel sorry for her. As for my husband, he knows he still has more work to do to figure out why he would have done this. We really have dredged alot of painful things up from his past to the present. Also, I have to admit that I am not without fault also. Not that I'm responsible for him having an affair, but that some of the things I said or did may have contributed to his feelings of low self-worth, even though I didn't realize that is what I was doing. One of the things my husband said to me which is helping me to heal is that it isn't that he didn't love me, but that he didn't love himself.

Dear Daisy37:<p>Thank you for your reply. I feel for you, really I do, as it feels as if our lives will never be free of these OW, doesn't it. My husband tried over and over again to explain to me that our OW has a stalker mentality, but I refused to believe it. I just felt she was being vindictive and spiteful because of being hurt, but now I'm beginning to change my mind. There was no reason for her to send me that last e-mail than to stir things up. I think she is very unhappy and won't rest until I am as unhappy as she is. I think the only thing I can do, as zorweb and others suggest, is to ignore her completely. Hopefully she'll let me do that. My husband is afraid she is going to show up on our doorstep.

<<<I think every bs wants to think the op is some crazed lunatic that practiced mind control on their ws, who really is, if not a perfect spouse, almost so....>>><p>SNL, I hate to burst your bubble but a lot of us BS have had to deal with a psycho OP. Of course are WS are not perfect, the then again no one is. Most of us are more than aware that our Ws did horrible things and told lies. When my H left me for the OW he did believe he loved her. Then he realized her had made a mistake. It happens all the time, even in dating relationships with single people. After he ended the affair and she was no longer able to contact him she focused her energy on me. I don't for a second think that she "practiced mind control" on my H, but I know for a fact that she didn't let her true colors show in the beginning. Lots of people don't. That's why new relationships are so great, everyone is on their best behavior. Once she focused on me, in a desperate attempt to still be some part of his life, you should have heard her. She told me numerous times that she wished I was dead and that she had prayed every day that I would miscarry my baby. She also said that I ruined her life. Interesting. I had never met her, but yet I ruined her life. She very willingly entered into an affair with a man she knew was married (she admitted to me that she was the one who had asked him out on numerous occasions), but somehow it was MY fault. I was the only person not consulted and not given a chance to make a choice and it was MY fault.<p>
<<<< with your interactions (assuming you can handle it) with the ow, she is just a person>><p>Yikes! People can be dangerous. I was actually starting to fear the xOW.<p> <<< and there is some risk with keeping ow in your life too, but IMO clarification usually makes such things worth it.>>><p>There is a lot more than "some" risk. This woman needs to be severed from your life like a tumor. Any interaction with her will only encourage her.<p><<<I pretty much view affairs as fatal to a marriage, cause it says alot about the ability of two people (in the marriage) to bond, to ever be the safe nurturing place intimacy should be.>><p>Lol. No kidding SNL. It's amazing then that some of the strongest happiest marriages I know of have had an affair in the past. Sometimes people really do have an epipiphany about what they almost lost.<p><<You can ignore all this if you want teresa, I only wrote my opinions cause you have said you value such things.>>><p>Just so you know Teresa, SNL's agenda is that all marriages that have had infidelity should end and that any that continue are basically shams. <p><<<as for her return email I would answer it, and ask her what her intentions are. It is unlikely I would express much anger, or vindictiveness, mostly I would be intensely curious about this person who affected my life>><p>Curiosity killed the cat. I answered the phone because I was curious too. What a mistake.<p> <<<<but from what you have said here (assuming you are accurate) something in the patterns does not add up>><p>I do agree with SNL on this part. Somethign doesn't add up. But the OW may very well tell lies also. Heck, ours even hatched a truly bizarre, completely amateurish and obviously unsuccessful, scheme to try to set my H up for selling drugs (which he was NOT doing, nor did he possess any drugs). It's too weird and complex to even attempt to explain but that's when there was no doubt in my mind that she really was a psycho. So while the Ws may very well not be completely telling the truth to save his own butt, that doesn't mean that the OP isn't also a looney tune. There can be a combination of factors at work in these situations. Very few strong, mentally healthy women would knowingly get so deeply involved with, and expect so much from, a man who was already married. I found out from someone else that my H's xOW had a history of becoming obsessed with every man she dates. Some people are like that, I know afew. They seem normal enough until they feel the guy start to pull back and then it's Fatal Attraction time. One girl I used to work with drove 60 miles to a guy's workplace to return a grubby T-shirt that he'd left at her house just to have an excuse to see him again after he finally stopped returning his calls. He had security escort her out of the building and then she called him and left messages on his answering machine asking why!!!<p>I would cease any further contact except possibly, as I believe Zorweb suggested, to let her know that any further attempts to contact you will be considered harassment and dealt with in a legal manner. The xOW finally left us alone when she was told that a restraining order was the next step. Any personal attention from you or your H, even negative attention will probably just encourage her to keep contacting you.<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>

Dear fairydust:<p>Thank you for your reply. snl's reply did seem a bit one-sided, as she doesn't know my husband, and based her reply only on what information I gave. Obviously I can't post all the conversations my husband and I had as it would take forever, but suffice it to say that I made him tell and retell the details of the past year over and over again, with me pulling out every little detail that didn't add up and me questioning and requestioning everything until I felt I had as many facts as I was ever going to get. I've come to realize that no one is perfect, and the people whom we least expect to hurt us sometimes do, beyond belief. I have been hurt by others in the past whom I know love me, and I've forgiven them, so why not my husband? If I felt he was playing me for a fool now I'd be out of here in a second, but I know he is hurting also. He is the one who has to live with the fact that he almost destroyed me and our marriage. He is the one who has to look at himself every day and know what he did. He has to forgive himself also, and he can't do that if I continually remind him of what a horrible thing he did. He knows it, he has to live with it. Also, although I am not a "holy roller" by any means, I do believe in God and the power of forgiveness, and if Jesus could forgive his betrayers, who am I to hold this against my husband forever? My husband has answered every question I have had I think as truthfully and to the best of his ability as possible. He has told me things that have hurt me immensely, that I'm sure he would not have told me except for the fact that I stated I would only stay with him if he told me the absolute truth about everything involving OW. She verified what he told me when I asked her the same questions, although I did not tell her I already asked him, mainly about how many times they met for sex, etc. I know my husband didn't have an affair with her because he wanted a relationship with her, or even because he thought she was this irristible person he had to have, but because of many more complex reasons. Why he let it continue for so long has been my biggest issue to deal with, but one I am trying to understand. Alot of people like to think it is because he wanted to continue the relationship with her or for the sex, but I honestly don't believe that. In a year they only met four times for sex, and I think if he really wanted to be with her he would have found more time than that to be with her. Also, as I said, the phone bills reflect calls of only a few minutes, with her calling him, as cell phones record who the call is coming from. If he was so enthralled with her, wouldn't he have wanted to spend as much time talking to her as possible? Also, he was always home from work within a normal amount of time, so I know the car encounters didn't last more than a few minutes either. I just believe that when people truly want to be in each other's company they will find a way no matter what. So I do believe my husband on that matter. Am I a fool and think that he didn't find her sexually appealing? No, I'm not stupid, but I don't believe that was the catalyst for the affair. Do I believe that she played up to his ego by making him feel important, sexy, etc.? Absolutely! Am I taking responsiblity for not meeting his emotional needs and him subsequently having an affair? No, but I am taking responsibility for whatever I contributed to his feelings of unimportance, or not recognizing that he felt sad or depressed. I was too involved in what was going on in my own life at the time. Am I holding him responsible for not letting me know he needed more from me emotionally? Yes.<p>Getting back to the OW though. I do now believe she had many personal issues prior to getting involved with my husband, and when he showed her kindness and support she latched on to him emotionally and could not let go. I really do believe that. What woman in her right mind would want a man who only met her for a few minutes a couple times a week, and barely acknowledged her otherwise for a year!! Not me. I would have told him to hit the road. But that is because I am a strong person and believe in myself, and believe I deserve more. Obviously she did not. Why would she still be trying to make contact? I think she must have very poor self-esteem issues or enjoys living in a fantasy world. At times I truly do feel sorry for her, except I'm a little afraid of her to. There is no way I will ever have contact with her again. On this I now agree with my husband completely.

Daisy37, BINGO!<p>That's exactly the only motivation that they could have for wanting to contact the wife! To somehow send messages round-about to their ex-boyfriend. <p>In fact, in my situation the OW (an emotional, not physical affair) now calls me a LIAR in capital bold face letters - she insisted that I share her e-mails with my husband - every single word. And while I didn't keep anything from him I certainly wasn't going to force him to read her messages. She wanted assurance that he was reading her stuff. I didn't tell her that he chose not to read her stuff. So I'm a LIAR. What does that make her????<p>He craved NO CONTACT - and her behavior once we insisted on no one-on-one contact in any form, went total nutsy. She ripped me apart and I allowed it by trying to salvage our old friendship. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] (I know - I took stupid pills!) If she couldn't have the relationship she wanted with my husband (which she claimed was NOT inappropriate - she loved him "like a brother" - she was not attracted to him "THAT" way) [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] she didn't want a relationship with me obviously. Then she went around on a pity party that her friends had abandoned her...<p>Sorry - venting again... She's gone on about how nobody cares for her and how afraid she is to speak her feelings on a recovery board that hubby and I used to frequent...

Be careful, you may not want to email her back, my thoughts are with you. HONEY

teresaT, I think I am getting my teresa's a bit mixed up, hence my tone more of a you know where I am coming from (several teresa's at the moment it seems)....for the record, I am a wsh, with a strong lifelong interest in human behaviour...in my case I have had one (and the will be the last) affair after 23 years of marriage (and lots of conflict therein). I have posted alot on my personal circumstances as a ws for whoever may benefit, and for feedback on myself, but I also post alot about the psychological nature of human bonding, sometimes this irritates folks, other times leads to discussion. I do not believe that marriage should be saved at all cost, I think it should be about the emotional health of the participants...and on the scale of what one will settle for, I am fairly radical, I think the degree of "work" in a marriage is a direct function of how healthy the marriage is, in that sense I think infidelity is a time when one should take a very hard look at who you are really married to, and the likelihood the marriage is a healthy place for the two individuals, more times than not, it isn't, IMO.<p>However, that does not mean one cannot recover from infidelity, I just wonder alot at the the reasons given for doing so. Quite often it seems to be more fear of starting over (so to speak) than anything else, and settleing for what one has, instead of taking the risk to do a better job of mate selection (not in the sense of saying anything wrong with ones spouse, but in the sense of psychological compatibility).<p>btw, I am in full agreement one stay away from nutso op, once one has determined that is actually the case.<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Hi Teresa,<p>Take it from someone who's x-H's OW boiled bunnies as a past time - DO NOT CONTACT OW IN ANY FORM<p>I was in therapy when OW was harassing with vile and vulgar answering machine messages. My Therapist told me to not respond in any fashion. To ignore her, to tape all her spewing and save the tapes, which I did. The idea behind it was my intentional NON-participation was supposed to diffuse her abuse. Well, it seemed to make her madder, she was very angry. <p>There are some OW out there that are VERY unstable. They just don't have all their ores in the water. And when the MM won't do what they fantasized, the W somehow becomes the target. <p>I don't mean to frighten you or sound paranoid, but from what I've read your H's OW sounds very SCARY. Do not discount what she is capable of, you know what they say about a woman scorned. I've experienced it and it is very disturbing.<p>My suggestion is "IF" she contacts you again in any form, together as a team you AND YOUR H file a restraining order. <p>Take good care, Hon.<p>Jo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong><p>There are some OW out there that are VERY unstable. They just don't have all their ores in the water. And when the MM won't do what they fantasized, the W somehow becomes the target. <p>Jo</strong><hr></blockquote><p> So true. The xOW had herself convinced that I spoiled her party and that if I didn't exist she would have been walking down the aisle with my H and a big ole diamond ring on her finger. Yet he broke up with her without there ever being a D-day or my "forcing" him or any of that. She was, at the time, a nonentity to me. There are some things I know for certain about my H, and I could guarantee that if he had been single and I had never existed he still probably would have dated her, but their relationship would have lasted 3 months instead of 6. Only the drama of it being an affair kept it going as long as it did. Talk about 2 people who had nothing in common....

Hi Teresa<p>Something bothers me about all this. You say you found out about the A through OW's husband, right? So when was your WS planning on telling you, or was he going to tell you at all - or just carry on with the A or what??? Something doesn't fit. Hope I'm wrong.

Hi Shakti and others:<p>Shakti, to answer your questions, no, my husband was not going to tell me about the affair. He finally got the b---s to end it once and for all with OW, and according to him, spend the rest of his life being the husband and man I thought he was. He knew I would be devastated if I knew, and boy was he right. You see, my first husband cheated on me numerous times of which I found out about, and I didn't leave him until 4 years ago, as we had three children and I didn't want to ruin their lives or uproot them, so I stayed until they were old enough to handle it. In retrospect I should have left years ago, as my ex and I had nothing in common, and no matter how hard I tried to improve our marriage, nothing worked. My present husband knew about this and had nothing but bad things to say about my ex. He knew I would be shattered if I found out he did the same thing to me also. The biggest difference about my ex and my present husband is that aside from this affair happening, my husband is a wonderful person, caring, considerate, affectionate, fun to be with. I know that sounds ridiculous considering what he did, but truly, aside from that, I have never been happier. Which is why this whole affair thing has been doubly hard for me to deal with. My husband knew I was happy as a lark, and he seemed equally happy with me, which he is and was. After much soul searching and delving into EVERYTHING, I've come to understand that the affair wasn't about me, or me and my husband, but my husband's issues about self-esteem, self-importance, value as a husband and step-father, and many other things stemming from his past with his immediate family, feelings which he hid from me, and in reality, hid from himself. After becoming involved in this affair, and realizing the devastating thing he had done, he couldn't face it. He convinced himself that it would all go away, he would never betray me again, and we would go on happily ever after. As the weeks turned into months, and OW would not let go or let him off the hook so easily, he didn't know where to turn, so he did what he and his family always did, and pretended it didn't exist. He effectively boxed it away the second he walked through the front door and never looked back, until he had to go to work again where OW was in his face. Unable to deal with his fear of me finding out, he took the coward's way out, and continued to meet with her after work a few times a week. Apparently she cherished those moments and it kept her going, instead of putting her off. As I said before, he really thought she'd get sick of his constant refusals to meet her at a motel, or go out somewhere together, and she'd dump him, letting him continue on with his life. He never made it a secret at work that he and I had a happy marriage. Whenever I called there the other co-workers would ask about our weekend, things we had done that he told them about, etc. He believed that if OW heard him talking about "us", she would realize there was no hope and move on. How he could be so stupid is beyond me, and how she could be so needy to be satisfied with what she was getting from him is something I'll never understand. My husband said he knew I'd never tolerate that treatment and figured she'd be the same way. Bad misconception on his part. She was ready and willing to take whatever she could get. By the end of the summer, my husband knew he had to grow some b---s and end it, and take the consequences if I found out. He never had any intention of telling me. He was sure I would leave, especially after what I'd been through in my first marriage. He just didn't trust that I loved him enough to stay and work things out. When the affair first started I was going through some heavy emotional stuff myself. My uncle, whom my husband and I were taking care of, passed away, my family and I had a huge fight which left none of us speaking to each other, I had just switched jobs, and I was going to an infertility specialist trying to get pregnant. In all of this I suppose I was so wrapped up in my problems I forgot about my husband and expected him to be there for me. I don't think I'm wrong for expecting that, as I would hope I'd be there for him also, but I forgot that these things were affecting my husband too. There were also issues surrounding my children, my ex and my husband that left my husband feeling less than important or needed. So it's not like everything was a bed of roses in all those departments. Not that I'm excusing him, I'm not, and he isn't using it as an excuse either, but he was so afraid if I found out at that time that I wouldn't be able to handle one more heartache, and then the holidays came up, and me and my family still weren't speaking, which led my husband to try even harder to appease OW to not let the cat out of the bag, as he was absolutely convinced I would go off the deep end and leave him. By now several months had gone by, OW is calling him more and more on his cell phone the minute he leaves work, starts switching her day off to be off when he was, starts calling our home and hanging up if I answered. I imagine he felt like a deer caught in the headlights.<p>The day I found out, the OW called my husband that morning at our home before he left for work, on his cell phone on the way to work, and on his cell phone on the way home from work. He refused to speak to her. He said he told her numerous times over the past weeks to stop calling him and that it was over. That day was the last straw for her and she went home and told her husband, and he called me. I don't know if she really believed my husband would leave me and go to her, I think she thought I would leave, and in his loneliness he'd go to her. What she didn't realize is that he never wanted her. And so my life changed forever. No matter what the reasons for my husband's behavior and betrayal, I'll never truly understand how he could have done it, but from the amount of people who enter affairs, it seems alot of people find themselves in this situation. Although it would have been worse for me, sometimes I wish he actually did have feeling for her at the time, because that I could have understood. It is much harder to understand how someone could have sex with someone they don't care about. What need does it fulfill? I don't know. He said he thought it would make him feel important, but it only made him feel worse, and more of a failure. I believe he has truly grown up and realized what he almost lost. He says he knows what he wants, and he knows where his life is heading, he's happy, he loves me, and he'll never hurt me again, or our marriage. He understands how friendships can get out of hand, and where the line is. I believe him. This is the absolutely worst thing either of us has ever gone through.

Sorry everyone, I get so off-track sometimes once I get started. The sequence of events for this affair is that it started in October 2000, two episodes of husband meeting OW at motel. Preceding events to affair, husband and OW worked together, OW befriends husband, starts telling him her problems at home with her husband and daughter, asks my husband for advice on all sorts of things, I imagine they flirt with each other harmlessly so my husband thinks, she becomes more enthralled with him, eventually waits for him in the elevator, kisses him in elevator. My husband can't believe she did that, starts thinking "wow, I must be something". OW asks him to meet her, crazily my husband does. I imagine he thinks "I'll show her what a man I am". After first encounter feels more like sh--, agrees to meet her again, comes out of fog and realizes he is in deep sh--, becomes scared, acts like a p---y, and is afraid of repercussions if he tells her he doesn't want to meet her anymore. Realizes OW is a bit unstable and very needy. Thinks OW will move on. OW doesn't. Meets OW once or twice a week for a few minutes after work, talk mostly about work, her problems with her husband, etc. My husband talks to her about trying to work things out with her marriage, is HOPING she works things out. Months go by, she starts calling our home, and husband's cell phone incessantly. Calls only 1-2 minutes, my husband tells her he can't talk, and hangs up. OW starts switching her days off to be off when my husband is. Numerous calls on Caller ID I don't recognize, cell phone numbers with no mesage. I'm oblivious. We go on vacation in May, have wonderful time. Apparently OW furious, threatening my husband with statements like "I can't take it, I have to tell D----- (her husband). My husband panics, thinks she's gonna tell. Agrees to meet her again at a motel in June, two times. My husband said he was sick of himself and what he was doing. Says felt like a trapped man. In August, OW goes on vacation with her husband, leaves crazy suicidal message on my phone (I'm still oblivious) my husband panicking, what to do, what to do? My husband plans a weekend away for me and him. We have great time. Tells OW it's over, he can't do it anymore. Still doesn't tell her he doesn't WANT to do it, just that he can't do it. I think it gives her hope. In September my birthday, husband plans weekend away, we have great time. Husband tells OW numerous times it's over. She's still calling him, begging him to meet her. He refuses. October, we go away again for the weekend. OW can't take it, calling my husband several times a day on cell phone. My husband tells her again, it's over. OW tells her husband, I find out. The end! Well, not really, but you know what I mean.