How do you deal with a WS that seems to say, woe is me, etc? The WS is not the only one who is hurt, who is having a hard time dealing with life, who is not motivated to do things. The BS has had to deal with, abusive name calling, threats of pushing BS down, not caring attitude around here, can't seem to get things done. <p>I left this morning to go to physical therapy, at 7:30am. Did errands on the way home, cause we have the threat of big snow accumulation for tomorrow. Would of liked if WS would of done some physical things around here. Seems he has no gas? Yes, he works hard at what he does, this is our slow time, and would like help with bills, getting a file cabinet opened (need to drill out the lock - stays in locked position), clean off the kitchen table - don't remember the last time it was cleaned off. <p>I am running out of gas to continue looking at all that needs to get done around here. Why does the WS feel they are the only ones that can sit around is woe is me? They are not special, they have a home to keep up, they have a family to look after, they have a career to keep working on, they are suppose to act like responsible adults. How do you handle this?

thinker-<p>I'm sorry but this is a little too funny. I wrote to you on one of your other threads this morning asking you how/what keeps you going. Here you are asking almost the same question. I feel for you.<p>I don't know how to help you find the gas to get going because I don't know all of the dynamics involved. My situation is somewhat different in the my WW thinks she is deceiving me about all that is going on in her life. Not only is she having an A but she has not been accountable for her time and sometimes with our money. She does very little DS now. She makes no effort to spend time with me.<p>I still dearly love my W. I don't take the promises I made to her 20 years ago lightly. The overriding answer to your question for me is the kids. I don't want them to suffer through a divorce. I expect that would be worse than what they are experiencing right now. On the other hand, this dishonesty is getting a little out of hand and starting to impact the family more than just my W having an A.<p>So how does thinker keep going? Has the Love Balance gone into the red yet? I'm really curious about your answer.
HoFS

Thinker<p>Here's what I do..to help me get going..and also point out to "others" in this house what needs done....<p>I make a list full of things and hang it on the fridge...I list them all....
cleaning up drawers, to attacking bills, to fixing up sliding door on kids closet that is sticking...
all the things that I see need done...big things..little things...some easy some complex..then I attack them...here and there...but each day I face the list...then as they get done cross them off with a big marker which feels great...<p>Often my husband checks the list and states..oh heck I'll do that...or I forgot that needed done...or if I really want to make my point I go and get some of his tools and plug them in the kitchen and yell..show me how this works again as I plan on rehanging that door on kids closet...nothing motivates him quicker than the threat of me doing it my way....<p>I know my way sounds simple but it avoids me or him having to lay blame or attack for things not getting done..it's obvious they need done...we all know it...and the crossing off of things is really great motivation....and you never know sometimes the kids might even "volunteer"..<p>Even if no one else helps you and you end up doing/attempting on your own..it validates your energy, effort and ability to accomplish things....<p>And there certainly those days where I just stand there and stare at the list...overwhelmed..but atleast it's on the fridge so I can usually munch something good and fattening while I procrastinate....such is life...<p>I guess we all need reminded that we can't make anyone else do anything at all...be it emotionally or physically....<p>Oh if only life was like I Dream of Genie and all we had to do is blink....
ARK

ark^^,<p>I love your idea. Not that there is anyone really here do things but me. I have spoiled my sons so very much that my VERY future DILs will hate me.<p>However, my OS (17.5) has several friends that live in single parent homes [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] and he is amazed at what they are expected to do. He came home one day & said thanks mom, I need to help you more, of course he hasn't but things have been wild here till I am over midterms this wk.<p>[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: sing ]</p>

HFS - yes the brown barrel is full of red. Nothing green in it now. Ws is here, but I get so upset with his actions. He is a procrastinator, but there comes a point to where this procras. has got to end.<p>ARK - I have sort of done something similar to your. Doesn't seem to make an impression to H. I have a big erase board. It is about 6 x 3. We hung it on the hallway wall to the back of house. H did a good job of hanging it. I have things categorized (Get rid of, Garage sale, Sell, etc.). I thought it was pretty good, and we have different color markers to use. Today, H asked for me to make a list of things he can get done in 1 hour. I listed 3 things, drill the lock out of the file cabinet, so I can use the cabinet, clean the kitchen table off, help me work on bills. He is out doing service calls right now, but hopefully this will work. <p>He said today, he doesn't mind if I put 1 hour work on a piece of paper on the kitchen glass cabinet every day to accomplish that day. So I will give it a try, but I am not holding my breath. <p>Yes, the lovebank is in the Red. H hasn't kissed me in 3 - 4 days, I don't know. Show affection, no. No hugs, does crack my back for me if I ask. Anyways, I feel so miserable, can't seem to get things done myself without really pushing myself. Used to have energy all the time to clean, organize, paperwork, etc. Not any more. I walked with the dogs today (4 dogs - 2 big ones over 100#'s and 2 about 50# & 65#. Enjoyed the walk, and had our blue front amazon bird on my shoulder. She talked the whole way, listened to her kind (birds chirping). That lifted me up, and was able to clean the front porch. <p>Thanks for your interesting posts. Hopefully, things will start to get done around here.

I lose my expectations. Either the spouse chooses to pull their own weight or not. There is nothing we can do to make them. We can request help, but other than that I've found it futile to expect any.<p>I have two choices: Remain in a R where I do most of the work, or be single where I do all of the work.<p>My relatives always harp on me because of my H's double standard about work because I work full-time and do all the child care, meal planning and preparation, housework, shopping and bill-paying while he works at his less-than-full-time job.<p>My answer is always the same: I would still be doing everything anyway. Leaving him won't reduce my workload (except maybe a little bit less laundry and dishes to wash) but would leave me with a lot less money to do it all with.

Unfortunately Thinker, I have no suggestions for you. That is primarily b/c I'm in a very similar situation at my house.<p>My H isn't so much in the 'woe is me' stage, just an old fashioned procrastinator. His #1 excuse: " I don't know where to start! " So, what happens then? NOTHING! He just doesn't start anything!!! (sound familiar? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>My H claims he needs constant reminders, and requests that I do that. My only problem is that it can turn into nagging (because I can only say it in a non-LBing way so many times before I burst! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>Is SNL reading your posts? Have you been talking to him about this? Because from my computer chair, I can see the red flags waving, but I haven't noticed a blink of an eye from your H's end. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] (it first struck me when you posted on his thread about the boards - asking how to deal with an H who is addicted to the boards already).<p>Let me know what works for you so that I can give it a try here too. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

I wish someone was here to unstop the toliet that I have had to unstop I don't know how many times, and I really can't afford to call the plumber. I was raised a Princess okay spoiled brat, I HAVE NEVER Had to do some of the stuff that I have to now but I can now unstop a toliet and only gag every other plunge. I will learn to do all this.

Well making a list for H with 1 hour of chores on it. I put, clean off the table, change the filter of the furnace, and drill a hole in the one file cabinet cause the lock on it is shoved in and we have no key.<p>Agreed to give him a 1 hour list that day, and every day and put on it would like to have it done by a certain time. Today as of now, file not done, table not cleaned. So what do I do now? We got into a big argument over this and it seems he will do what he wants when he wants. He moved out of the bedroom, he is upstairs in the extra room. I just can't see how one can live with things not getting done, and priorities screwed up. I have a bad arm, and now I have a messed up back. The person working on my back says I am stressed out, my back is a complete knot and have many pressure points that are sore. <p>But what gets me is my H finds many hours to spend on the computer. No problem with that, if other things were to get done too. I agreed to his 1 hour per day chore list. This is so unreal. What else can I say, what else can I do? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Life sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>And what upsets me is that he doesn't see what an asset I am to this home. We could of had a good thing going, I make up for his slack, and vice versa. But when one spouse sits, sits, sits, and says, where do I start? Or I'm thinking about it! Or let me finish this post, just a few more minutes, and a couple of hours go by. What do you do? I have had a busy day with physical therapy, did some shopping, went to the person who works on muscles, nerves, etc. Her and I talked afterwards, cause she didn't have another client coming till later. I left around 7:30am, did get home till 4:30. Had to get dinner started, our oldest daughter I elected to help, brought groceries in and unloaded, got rest of dinner ready, before I left this morning, I folded one load of clothes, put one load in washer, came home folded one load in dryer, and put one load in washer. I unloaded dishwasher, child to do this is at saxophone symphony rehearsal. I also, swept the floor where some muddy boots left dried mud. Took dinner up to my computer, called the woman who helps me get the paperwork ready for our accountant to not come over tomorrow, cause table is not cleaned off yet, and now she may be going to Florida for her Stepfathers illness for 3 or 4 weeks. SNL and I fought, he moved more of his stuff upstairs, and that is where the day was. I have to say, I didn't sit around at all till tonight, and the little bit at the massage therapist. I'm tired, didn't sleep well, can't when arguments ended the night. Cleaning up bedroom now. Oh H just did the file cabinet, now he is down to 1 items left on the first list. Guess just venting, but I don't know what to do. Lists don't work, nothing works.<p>[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

Hi Thinker,<p>I'm your husband in terms of chores and completing tasks. About 3 years ago (at the age of 38) I started seeing this counselor for depression issues that were partly a result of my inability to get anything completed. There were other issues, but the more stressed I became the more disorganized I was. It impacted every facet of my life from homelife to my job. <p>I spent a lot of time on my computer doing dumb stuff like downloading discs and discs of books that were all over my house. Non of them were labeled and there were literally hundreds of them. It was crazy because I couldn't even get it together enough to label them or format them so I could actually listen to them. This is just one example of me under stress. The distractions and inability to complete tasks...impulsiveness had been a part of my life since I was a kid. <p>I was finally diagnosed with ADD and resisted the diagnosis. I didn't believe in it. When I got to the end of my rope I finally decided to try meds to appease the psychiatrist I had been referred to. He put me on something called Adderall and it has changed my life. I can focus and complete tasks while on it. I threw out the hundreds of CD's and started over and now I have a wonderful book collection that's labeled and I listen to. My bills get paid on time, my laundry isn't spread all over the house..I take it to the dry cleaners and wash once a week. I got a bonus this year because my job performance improved 500%. I quit missing deadlines.... I could go on and on.<p>The point is that life for some one with ADD is a daily trial. Completing the smallest task can be a challenge. It is also a trial for the spouse or partner of some one with ADD. I literally drove my husband crazy with it. Lists are critical to me getting anything done and I pad the deadline for doing them. I never start a list with something I have to complete right now...I know I'll fail if I do. Even with the Adderall and behavior changes I've made I'm still a person with ADD...I just function better.<p>If your husband does have ADD there may be some help to be found via counseling with some one who specializes in it, but you have to learn to live with it too and accept some of the limitations of a spouse who has it. It's real. <p>No real advice here, but wanted to give you an idea of what life is like for me in the hopes that it will help you understand some of what SnL might be dealing with. He sounds a lot like me and I'm a pain to live with.

Thinker: Do me a favour for a minute, and step back from your situation and look at you. I'm getting back to MB principles here.... what have YOU done to create a safe environment for SNL? Have you been meeting his needs? Obviously, you'd be better off talking to him about this, especially since you are both so familiar with MB principles, but by the sounds of it, that may take a few days. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have so many similar feelings as you do right now. I see my H not doing much of anything around the house most of the time. I'll give him major credit for doing a hell of a lot more than he did prior to his A's - but it's obviously still not enough to meet my EN's.<p>As hard as it is to 'get the gas' to do it, I have to force myself to plan A him. M is a give and take, ideally anyways [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . I try and start with something small like apologizing to him for being such a *itch to him first thing in the morning. The best plan would be for me to show him by my actions (and NOT be a *itch in the a.m.) - that's a toughie for me though. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So what is my next step? Fulfilling another EN for him. Something that is relatively easy for me to 'give', whatever 'it' is that day.<p>I don't know about you, but ALady's post set off red flags for me regarding my H. The burning of cd's is EXACTLY like what my H does. We too, have HUNDREDS of them around the house. My guess, is that at least 50% of them are not labelled. I will give my H more credit though - he's been making the effort to label them now... some of the time. I'm definitely going to show him this thread later on tonight (he's out with his buddy guy friend at an info seminar on starting your own business).<p>Karen

I just saw your reply to confused_guy and I didn't realize just how difficult things are between you and SNL. I will admit, that I don't read his posts too often, because, as most of us know on here, they're so long-winded (no offense SNL, but you know that's the case).<p>So I apologize if I was too 'non-chalant' or out of line in my previous post.<p>Karen

ALADY - Yes, we think and SNL thinks that he has ADD. He has all the classic signs. What you said you did before the medication he does to the 'T'. The problem is will he go on medication or even go see a specialist. NO! Like with his sleep apnea, I had to find the specialist, he finally agreed to go and found that he had severe apnea within 5 minutes in the sleep test. As far as getting his feet taken care of, I had to find a good foot specialist. Getting him to a dermatologist, with suspecting moles, and his scalp problems, I found the specialist. I found a good massage therapist, he went once. SNL will do what he wants, when he wants, and his way only.<p>I will look into finding a ADD specialist and make an appointment for him. We will see if he agrees to go. <p>I made a list. He puts the list here and there. The problem, if a list is made and he doesn't even look at it, it frustrates the person making the list because you know what the outcome is going to be.<p>The kids have stated the same. They know if they make a list for me, it will get done. I hope he will go see a specialist. For his good, and this family. Thanks for the information.<p>Topie - yes he writes long posts, makes him feel good about himself. But irrates others when he interferes in ones posts. I accept your advice, making this a safe place, but when one feels like a doormat, and doesn't get love, affection, kisses, hugs, etc. When your WS is sitting on the fence, per counseling with the Harleys, he is fence sitting. I am at my end of the rope. SNL won, he should be happy, that he can freely go find his in-love, one-flesh, bonding, soulmate. etc. This is pure h*ll for me and life sucks!!! But thanks, for your info. not very happy here!

Topie and Thinker,<p>I meant to respond to this a few weeks ago and lost track of it! Darn ADD! Just teasing with that comment, but want you to know that it is a serious handicap for someone with an extreme case like mine was before meds and behavior changes. <p>I always thought ADD was an excuse for lazy people
and parents who couldn't deal with problem children. If it wasn't for the specialist I finally saw I wouldn't have changed my mind and gotten help. <p>Also, there is no question that it has a terrible impact on the spouse of the person with ADD. You have to learn to live with it too. The great news is that once the diagnosis is made there are meds and behavior modification techniques that help the person with ADD alot. They don't solve the problem completely, but there is definate improvement. <p>Also, if you are the spouse of some one with ADD..understanding it can help with the resentment that builds up towards the spouse with it.<p>Finally, my doctor told me that the internet is the perfect vehicle for the person with ADD because of all the distractions available. We can get hooked. For me it was downloading loads and loads of books and all those CD's everywhere. Now I still download books, but try to limit my downloads to one book per week (to keep the number of CD's manageable) and only allow myself 7 hours a week on the internet for pleasure. That's my goal I don't always achieve it!

Thinker or SNL, something just hit me about Thinkers last post here. Ask your doctor about sleep apnea and how it relates to some of SNL's problems with completing tasks. I believe that Sleep Apnea can cause many of the same problems that ADD does. A few months ago a co-worker was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and had many ADD characteristics as a result of it. Inability to focus and couldn't complete tasks. It's because he was sleep deprived from the apnea. His Doctors put him on Adderall during the day. It seems to have helped him immensely. <p>Worth mentioning to your doctor.