I've never posted much but have been an avid lurker. Due to a really hostile environment at home, I think the time has come to solicit some unbiased, straight talk from people who don't know us personally, yet can offer some words of wisdom and hopefully encouragement.
A little background...I met my H (i'll call C) at work. I was the new girl in town and at that time I thought I was already happily married to "M" that is until C charmed his way into my life. You guys can pretty much write the story...fog...withdrawal...back and forth rollercoaster...finally divorce between "M" and I after doing this scenario for 2 years. Within 4 months of my divorce, "C" and I married. Since then, we have counseled with clergy, got involved in a church, rededicated our lives to Christ. From the outside you would think we were happy. Yet why do I feel so lonely? I can't remember ever having an emotionally intimate conversation with "C" and I want that so badly! When I try to tell him, you would think that the phrase "My emotional needs are not being met" was a bad word. To him, I should just accept him and not ask for more. We have custody of his 7 year old son only becuz she has verbally agreed to this and I try my best to be a good step-mother and wife that most of the time I feel like I'm performing on stage. We deal regularly with my step son's mother. In fact, I like her! I even got her hired on the job with me, pick her up every morning for work, she even attends church
with us, but anytime i do something that upsets her with regards to her son, she's on our phone threatening to take him away.
For example, every Friday, she will bring my step-son's two cousins over to spend the night, which I didn't mind at first becuz that would give my son a chance to spend with family and enjoy himself. Now it's getting out of hand that she won't even call and ask first. She will just drop them off. When I explained to my h, that he needs to tell her not to do this anymore, I mean what if we had plans? He said, he would not call her and upset her, then she will threaten to take her son away from us and that he can deal better with me being mad at him. Basically I'll get over it. Well I'm not over it. I feel so out of place, yet I'm the one who is the most involved with my son's life. They don't even know his teachers's name!? I'm the one taking him to school, picking him up from daycare, going to P.T.A., yet I feel like i have no say in anything! His son's first in his life, His family (Brothers) are 2nd, his son's mother is 3rd.. and i'm a distant 4th or 5th..I mean i know "I'm just the wife" (sarcastic) but I still need to feel cherished.
Well, needless to say, All this has planted a small seed of jealously in my heart and I'm praying for God to just search me and know me and purge me from anything evil, but sometimes it's a battle. This past Sunday, we picked her up for church and I'll admit I had a bit of an attitude.. not verbally, just gave them both the silent treatment. We dropped her off, and later he exploded..that I should not have been rude to her..blah blah blah
he's right, and I apologized, then when i started to say, why he's more concerned with her feelings more than mine..( I can be in the bathroom balling my eyes out and he won't even come in to check on me) he said he is not concerned more for her but that i was wrong in my actions toward her. he asked me if i was happy in this marriage and i said truthfully, right now, No. Well that is all he heard. Now he's saying I've been faking happy for the past 10 months and maybe i should find someone else to make me happy and fill my needs....This is the part where he always brings up my "ex".
He hasn't slept in the same room with me in two days and yesterday we argued..he said he talked with someone at his job and they were going to find some info about getting an annulment.
I'm so hurt..annulment..for what?? And why is he talking about our private life to anyone anyway?
I know i made my share of mistakes and I guess you reap what you sow, but I really want my marriage to work out!!! There is no talking to him. I don't understand how he can be so quick to give up? This only serves to confirm my suspicions all along.. that I don't really mean much to him..
He's told me over and over.. he doesn't feel connected with me.. you know, like a h should feel toward his w. I'll admit, he's right, our only foundation for this marriage was pure lust!
I feel like such an idiot now! He called and said not to worry about ironing or cooking for him. He needs to start preparing himself to be single so he will do it himself. I just said nothing and told him I love him.. he hung up.
I've cried for the past 2 days and I need some help.. Someone please give advice, any advice, even if it's just "serves you right for leaving your first H"...Then the rest, I'll let go and let God.

Talitha,<p>Well, I won't say: Told you so. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But, I do think you need to step back a second and have a look at things. You two married for lust. Fair enough, I have surely heard of worse reasons for marrying. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] But, when you look back further I think you might see a man that left his first family when the going got rough. I am presuming that was before your affair with him.<p>It doesn't matter really the trend is there. You haven't said much about your first marriage other than your affair ended it. But, the counseling here is to look at yourself first, see where you are failing in the marriage and see if you can do better. Better at meeting his needs so forth.<p>But, even before that you need to ask yourself, do you want to save this marriage? I mean really do you?? If so read about Plan A and Plan B. Learn about the concept of needs and about radical honesty.<p>My bet is you are seeing why your H was divorced to begin with: It was too much trouble. I suspect that your H still has feelings for exW, and certainly the tie with the son is very strong.<p>Next, you said your were "happily married" to M. Yet, you had an affair and divorced him. My question is Why??? You need to know the answers to that question as well.<p>What I am really driving at here Talitha is that you need to understand what and why you have done the things you have. You need to look at your H and see if you can understand where he is coming from in this thing. In short you need to understand your needs and your H's needs.<p>Then you might have a chance to save this marriage.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>PS: You gave the translation of "Talitha Cumi", but what language is it translated from???

talitha, no way around it, your life is messed up, and you probably have made some pretty big mistakes....the good news is whatever happens life is not over, you will survive. What to do now? Couple things, first look in the mirror and tell yourself you have no control over anyone but yourself, do this often. second, accept you have messed up big time, and that you intend to find out why, not why everyone is mistreating you, but why you make the decisions you do...that means a lot of self-introspection and counselling... you do this for you, not to make anyone else do anything. Read this site, get the materials, counsel with harleys if you can, and apply it appropriately and see what happens....you have two tasks, first to fix YOU, second to assess where your marriage is, and what it can be, this is going to take time, be patient, do things for yourself, and find stability in the path you can now walk, one that will lead to understanding, and healing...if you have the courage and discipline to walk it....your marriage may or may not survive, but you will be ok...IF you do the work. Good Luck<p>btw if anyone (not here necessarily) tells you you got what you deserved, spit in their face....no, guess not, don't do that...but pay no attention to them, only God knows what we deserve, and He doesn't share that with anyone else....last time I checked no one is perfect....you screwed up, but that is not the sin so much, not learning from it is the real sin.

You do not say but it sounds like C was already divorced when your affair stated. Is that right? How long had he been divorced, if at all prior to your affair?<p>You married C 4 months after your divorce. I believe that this is where your problem is. Neither of you dealt with the problems in your previous marriages. And at least you, if not he jumped into another relationship before coming to terms with the failure of your previous relationship.<p>If you have read the material on this web site, you know that affairs are basically fantasies that are used as a band aid for personal and marital problems. So while your relationship with C worked while you had your H to fill your needs, it does not work when you both have to depend on each other to meet all of your needs.<p>You obviously did not take the time or do the work to really get to know C. If you had you would have known that he is not really involved with his son, that he is still emotionally connected to his ex, that he does not consider meeting your needs his priority. You knew, before you married him that he is a man who does not believe in the sanctity of marriage.. he divorced his ex and had an affair with a married woman. Why would you expect him to suddenly have developed strong feels of fidelity and marital obligations? You knew who he was when you we involve in an affair with him. The old adage.. “you made your bed, now lie in it” applies here.<p>As for “we have counseled with clergy, got involved in a church, rededicated our lives to Christ.” I’m not sure what it means to rededicate to Christ when your marriage and lives are based on adultery. <p> <p>What have you and your H done find out each of your own contributions to the end of your previous marriages? <p>“I can't remember ever having an emotionally intimate conversation with "C" and I want that so badly!” Ok, you married a man who you never had an emotionally intimate conversation with and now you expect him to be different? It does not work that way. You feel lonely because it seems that you are in this marriage alone. <p>As for his ex-wife, you are learning one of life’s little rules… no good deed goes unpunished. She is in your confidence and is working the two of you and their son against each other. Do all three of you work in the same company? This is a problem as it may be best for you and your H to make a very strong stand of unity to her. As long as that unity is not there, she will continue to play you against each other. It puts her in a very powerful position.<p>You say that you H has custody of his son. Is there an written, legal agreement that state this? How do they describer her and his rights? If so, it would be very hard for her to reverse it. The courts do not like the change the status quo, period. So her threats are probably meaningless. Are you mentioned in them as having any form of custody? If not, then you have no rights what so ever to this child. Be careful, you are putting in a lot of time/effort on a child who you have no legal rights over. Your H could walk away and take his son away and you cannot say anything about it.<p>
So do you want to save this marriage? Remember that if what you are doing does not work, then stop doing it.<p>If you H does not want to talk about his feelings, etc, then stop trying to get him to do it.<p>If you do not feel good about being the nanny for his son, then stop doing it. Let his father and mother do it. <p>Generally a spouse will let the other do everything that they are willing to do. If you pick up all he pieces, you H will let you do it. And it sounds like is ex is willing to do the same. I am in a similar position as you are with my two step children. At first I did much more for them. Then I realized that my willingness to take so much responsibility was actually a form of enabling and crippling my H as a father. Now, when he’s around, I step back and let him parent his own children. It works wonderfully.<p>As for my H’s ex, she is an absent mother who enters their lives 2-3 times a year for a few days visitation. She resents me but will not parent them. So I just ignore her as best I can. My H handles her. But we are learning to limit the contact with her to phone conversations and email. It gives her less access to our lives. And she can no longer try to play us against each other. She is furious, as she now knows that I see all emails and am a party to all phone calls between her and my H. So the games have stopped. <p>Until your H is willing to put you ahead of his ex, you will have this problem. It is parmount to marital harmony that you and he find a way to keep his ex out of your lives without jeapordizing his son’s relationships with all three of you. Have to feel sorry for the poor kid in all of this. He did not ask for his family to break up or for his father to bring a new mother into his life, yet he has to deal with all of the childish ‘adults’.<p>You both picked her up from church? Why? She has no place in your lives other then as the mother of his son. Your H is still emotionally tied to his ex. If he were not, he’d be able to stand up to her. And no he was not right, why should you put up with people who do not take your feelings into consideration? Why shouldn’t you be upset at a husband who is not following the rule of protection?<p>“said he talked with someone at his job and they were going to find some info about getting an annulment. “ Just curious, is this other person he spoke to a woman? Do we see a trend here? Almost sounds like it to me because most male friends would not go out and do this type of research for a friend… it’s a female type thing to ‘save’ a man.<p>Why an annulment instead of a divorce? What meaning does that have? <p>“ don't understand how he can be so quick to give up?” Why should this surprise you? He does not value marriage. Nor, from what you have said, does he have the skills to make a marriage work.<p>My suggestions to you is that you read the material on this website… and the books “Surviving an Affair”, “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”. But do not try to get your H to do the work yet. Instead you could start Plan A’ing him like crazy. And while you are doing that read the books [url=http://www.divorcebusting.com/ ]Divorce Busters[/url] and [url=http://www.divorcebusting.com/sample.html Getting Through to the Man You Love[/url]. <p>The MB material/books will give you a foundation for how to live a marriage and save it. He DB books will teach you how to talk to your husband and how to trouble shoot until you find a way that you can communicate with him affectively. In addition the DB material talks about how to save your marriage when only one spouse is interested in doing so.. .when your H will not read books, go to counseling etc.<p>But most off all, you need to work on YOU. That is what Plan A, the MB and the DB material are about. In the end, your goal should be to be the best YOU can be. Then your H will be lucky if he realizes the changes in you and chooses to stay. If he does not, then you will be a much better person in your next relationship. In the end you win either way.

Hi. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. <p>There is a trend here, both for you and your H. You can stop your trend, but you can't do anything for him. He has to take care of that part...<p>Honestly, you two need to work things seperately before you can do anything together. Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to back off for a while and do just that instead of trying to heal the marriage.<p>Your marriage is not broken, there was never anything tangible to begin with. What is broken is the two of you individually. If you are able to stay the course and fix what is within and your H does the same, THEN you can rebuild a relationship that actually means something and has a strong foundation.<p>Does that make sense? I am not sure how you approach this with your H. Perhaps state your fears, tell him how much you want to start from scratch and build a solid marriage from the bottom up and see what he says.<p>I want you to remember one thing though. You do not have to live in the mistakes from your past. At some point, when you deal with your issues, with or without your new husband, you will be a better person for it. Only then will you be the person you want to be and live the life you want to live. <p>I have to agree with Z about the type of man you married. BUT, it does not mean he will always be like that either... You need to watch out for it, but don't condemn the man for what you think he is doing/feeling with no proof.<p>I am sorry for your pain, but I am happy that you are able to take such a large step back and see things in a different way. Depending on your situation, it may be helpful to try apologizing to your exH and just letting him know. I don't know. It all depends on the individual situation, just something to think about as a way to start dealing with some old issues that have not died.<p>HbH

Thanks for all of your replys. Some of the things that were said were hard to hear, but all of it was the truth.
I know I was rambling yesterday and I guess you do that when you're hurting..I typed as fast as I could, I can't tell you how many times I started to post then changed my mind, so my apoligies if anything i said was not clear.
First of all, when I met my h "C" I was the only one married at the time, he was living with a girlfriend which was not his son's mother. His son's mother and "C" had broken up about 4 years earlier. He has always established primary residence for his son, although I hate to admit the poor boy has been bounced back and forth between the both of them. I think alot of my h favoritism towards his son's mother is becuz really, like Zorweb stated, we have no legal rights. His name is not even listed on the birth certificate, so he really hates to anger her. Since we've been together, she has threatened to take him away many times, even successful in one attempt, which lasted probably a good two weeks.
He can't really afford a lawyer, as there are 3 other children (by different woman)that he's paying child support to. That is another issue, I'm the one trying to set up visitation arrangements to see his other children and I initiate regular conversations with their mothers' to touch base, and I don't understand how he can play favorites. The one he really cares about is his son.
My H is about 15 years older than me, however this is "C" first marriage.<p>As for my previous marriage, with this comes a lot of guilt on my part. My first h, "M" did not deserve all the pain we caused him. He was a good person, always so kind and gentle and oh..so PATIENT. When I think of him, I'm reminded of how much he paid attention to every teeny tiny detail of my life. Up until my affair, he had been my best friend, after my affair, he even took the time to meet with "C" to just to be certain his wife was in good hands.. later I recall how "M" thought "C" was a phony.
That was a painful time in my life. Everything in me, every blood cell, every vein, seemed like I was all consumed with my affair. I had to be with him. At one point, I couldn't take it anymore and I checked into an inpt counseling treatment center and guess who comes into rescue me..."M"
All I can say, is that man loved me..still does. He keeps in close contact with my sister who lives in a differnt city and she tells me "M" would still take me back...after I married the man I cheated on him with????? I have no words except i have to keep myself from comparing them..it's hard.
Sometimes I'm afraid to even ask God for help or to make my marriage better. I mean, that is why he says "THou shalt not commit adultery".<p>The only thing that gives me hope is that "C" has a deeply spiritual relationship with God. I admire him, he will get up at 3 in the morning to spend time in prayer and he is faithful every evening in meditation. Sometimes i wonder what they "GOD and C" talk about...How he can spend time in prayer, yet come out and be so cold to me? <p>Zorweb, you asked why we pick my stepson's mother up for church. I asked my h that one time and i immediately felt guilty...he picked up on my guilt and said how could i deny anyone a right to come to church? She doesn't have regular means of transportation, that is why i pick her up for church. (btw, after the affair, i left the company we both worked for and started a new job. this is the place where my step son's mother and i both work together..my h still works at the other place) and you're right about another thing, it was a female he spoke to about an annulment, however unattractive he says she is (i know her) i still would have felt a little better had he talked with a male about this. he agreed he was wrong.<p>We finally talked last night, he said he would never mention divorce again if i promised to never say "he wasn't good enough".. I honestly don't remember saying this, i do remember saying he wasn't meeting my needs and all i want is to have a deeper connection with him. he said i can't change him, only God can do that in him. and that I should just accept him the way he is. Fine, my only fear is that i get tired of waiting and resentment and bitterness start creeping in. How do i prevent this? I have been plan "a" ing for the past two days, i guess you can say.. I didn't realize it was so hard to do knowing all your good deeds are met with rejection and indiffernce. We finally slept in the same room, but something deep inside me tells me, nothing was solved.
This morning, at breakfast, all he could say was we need to bond...bond to him means sex....why does it always have to be about sex. Well, I cried during the whole thing...he never knew it though. this happens frequently. <p>I do have one question that keeps weighing on my mind...Do you think I am forgiven by God for what i've done and if so, Does that mean my marriage now is blessed by God?" If i could just get peace about this question, maybe I could hold on a little longer. ("C" says we are both completely forgiven and our marriage is sanctified since once we commit our lives to Christ, he sees his righteousness in us) That still doesn't mean we don't have to pay the consequences.

oh, btw JL, Talitha Cumi is greek I think.. i was reading a scripture in Mark 5:41..when Jesus goes into to a girl's room and everyone is mourning her death, but Jesus takes her by the hand and says "talitha cumi" which is translated damsel ...arise or "little girl, i say to you, arise.
I thought it fit perfectly with me. As hopeless as the situation may seem, One word from God and I'm alive again. When I think of his Goodness and how he touched my mind and kept me from going crazy all i can say is...WOW! such love!

My best advice for this very complicated situation: both of you need individual and joint marriage counseling. You will not likely be able to work through this on your own (the two of you). You both have a lot of baggage from past relationships and your current one. The fact that he made four children out of wedlock is a huge issue in my opinion that speaks to his character. (sorry).<p>I hate to say it but it seems as if you miss "M." M sounds like a great caring and loving man. I am baised by what you wrote and I would never advice you to end your current marriage but I do have to wonder if his waiting is divinely driven. *shrug* Just a random thought.<p>Your marriage was (for lack of a better word) messed up from the start. It does not have to remain that way. The two of you really need counseling. You seem to be still dealing with the guilt of what you did and that is not healthy to your current relationship. Your H is in a terrible situation where he is being emotionally blackmailed by the mother of his child.<p>Honestly, if he wants his marriage to work with you, he has to put you first (and you him). If that means he loses custody of his child, then that is the consequence of such. he can try to sue for custody if he wants and the two of you simply suck it up and pay the cost.<p>He has no claim on the child. If he wanted such, he should have done the right thing when the child was born so that he could have such a claim. The fact that he is disinterested in his other children is very disturbing.<p>Again, counseling for both of you as soon as possible. I cannot stress that enough. You both have made some decisions in life that have been very destructive and I think you both need help to navigate that minefield.<p>[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

Talitha,<p>I guess I have two thoughts. The first is to seek out the counsel of your minister. I am not in a position to speak for God about your marriage and its blessings. But, I do think that both parties should think their marriage is a blessing.<p>You two don't right now.<p>Second, your H is right only God can change a person, but what he fails to understand is that God is within him. Therefore, while YOU cannot change him, he can change himself anytime he decides to. That is his choice and the choice of his God.<p>Finally, I must ask. Didn't you post here a while ago? Your story with your H sounds so familiar. I don't recall your user name but I do recall the story. <p>It really doesn't matter, but if you are the same lady, then I think that you have a personal mission to undertake. You need to address your feelings and guilt about what you did to your former husband. Again, I suggest that you speak long and hard with your minister.<p>Talitha, I think you are right. God forgives, but that doesn't mean there isn't a price to pay in our lives for what we do wrong.<p>I surely hope that some of the posts here have been of use to you.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL, i did post here a while back under the name "Brency" but then i stopped posting for a while and totally forgot my password, so i just re-registered (later found out, MB could email your password to you)<p>I think counseling and seeking out the help from our pastor is wise but a great feat, our church has over 25,000 members and i would not know the first person to call that would help us. I doubt even, my h active participation..I've mentioned counseling to him before, he said going to a counselor is the world's way of dealing with their problems..We, as Christians need to seek our help only from God. God does have a way, that even when circumstances seem bleak, that is when he reveals himself to me in a way i've never seen him before..See for so long, i've been putting my h where God should be...first, in my life, and I've realized there are emotional hurts and scars in my heart and soul, that my h could never reach..Those places are reserved for God, and He alone. On Saturdays, A group of volunteers host a bible study to the juvenile detention center and when I got up to speak, i found myself saying that there is no human who could validate you...Jesus Christ did that 2000 years ago..Why does that statement convict me? It's been a blessing to tell of where i've come from, where i've been, where i am now, and where God will take me...like the old saying goes "he's not done with me yet"<p>Longing, as for my h putting me first even prior to his son...well, i mentioned this to him, That our marriage should come first-before kids, jobs, anything else. I feel like our unconscious assumptions are holding us back from putting in the effort, but our child can be one of our best tools for creating a great marriage. I also feel it would provide some stability to my step son to see us loving and kind toward one another. My h feels this is not true.<p>See, we both grew up where our mothers were submissive to our fathers and always put them first, however our fathers were not great men, maybe even tyrants (to me)...Needless to say, sexual and physical abuse took place..I was placed in a group home and my h was placed in an orphanage. His mother died while he was in the orphanage. I was lucky to be taken into a home of a pastor and his wife in which the atmosphere was so peaceful.. My h had to grow up and care for his 6 siblings by himself. he was on his own at the age of 15...His greatest drive is helping disfuctional young kids.<p>I know so much emotion is built in him and it's so hard to be let into his world..but i'm so tired of hearing "that's the way i am, like it or not"....He doesn't have to stay that way! and besides JL, like you said, God lives in him.. aren't we supposed to put off the former man and put on the new..aren't all things made new"... <p>As for me, i do need help with regards to still carrying around the guilt of what i did to my first h... When i think of him, a lump forms in my throat and tears well up in my eyes. i can't help but know how proud he would be of me as a wife now..... I mean, i actually cook, clean, iron, parent, give manicures and bubble baths, and leave love notes...(i never did this for my first h, it was always the other way around) He still emails me often, just to say hello..i don't email back and i don't keep in touch with him yet i haven't gotten the courage to block his address from my email...sometimes just when i need some encouragement, i hear those words "I've got mail" and its little notes just to say " you're always on my mind"....Well, i can't think about that..my focus right now is on my h and in order to make this work i have to leave that all behind. <p>Thanks for you replys, it's been a big help

I think counseling and seeking out the help from our pastor is wise but a great feat, our church has over 25,000 members and i would not know the first person to call that would help us. I doubt even, my h active participation..I've mentioned counseling to him before, he said going to a counselor is the world's way of dealing with their problems..We, as Christians need to seek our help only from God. <p>God created everything. That means he created counselors. There are Christian counselors. My wife and I currently attend one. God will be where you receive your help but who are we to question the manner in which God choses to provide that help? Don't assume that we, as imperfect people, of imperfect faith and understanding, are fully equiped to reason out everything on our own. If we were capable of such, bible study would never be a necessity. Pastors are well trained on many issues but I am not of the opinion that a pastor can typically fully handle such a situation. God made experts in this area, I think for a reason.<p>God does have a way, that even when circumstances seem bleak, that is when he reveals himself to me in a way i've never seen him before..See for so long, i've been putting my h where God should be...first, in my life, and I've realized there are emotional hurts and scars in my heart and soul, that my h could never reach..Those places are reserved for God, and He alone. <p>Good progress!<p>Longing, as for my h putting me first even prior to his son...well, i mentioned this to him, That our marriage should come first-before kids, jobs, anything else. I feel like our unconscious assumptions are holding us back from putting in the effort, but our child can be one of our best tools for creating a great marriage. <p>I could not disagree more on that one [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Perhaps it is the use of the word "tool." A child, in my opinion, can only beneficial in a happy and productive marriage. I think a child can magnify a marriage. If it is good, it can become better. If it is bad, it can become much worse. Your child, in my opinion, should not be what keeps the marriage together. I often wondered and mentioned to people, that I often wished my wife had been pregnant prior to the affair because I think that she would not have done what she did. She may not have had the affair but our behavior would have been the same. It is very likely that one of us may have had one after the baby was born (the OM she was seeing had just had a baby prior to his A starting - he was with his wife for over a decade prior to that).<p>I also feel it would provide some stability to my step son to see us loving and kind toward one another. My h feels this is not true.<p>I would agree with you but right now, your marriage lacks that stability and the loving and kindness. I honestly don't think a child will help you to feel that for one another or to behave that way.<p>
I know so much emotion is built in him and it's so hard to be let into his world..but i'm so tired of hearing "that's the way i am, like it or not"....He doesn't have to stay that way! <p>Disrespect and uncaring is all that says to me. No one is a "way" for life. In marriage, you take two people and make them become one. The fact that he does not even care if you like him (with his flippant comment) should speak volumes to you, regardless of how it is said. That is a very uncaring statement. Allow me to turn it around, if he was not happy with his sex life with you, how do you think he would feel (and what do think he would do) if you told him, "hey, that is the way I am and I am not going to change for you, even though you would like me to." That is what he is telling you. If my wife told me that and continued to behave that way, regardless of how I expressed myself, you can bet it would not be long before I was seeking professional help for us and if that did not work, I would be seeking a lawyer - she obviously would not care enough about my emotional needs to be willing to even to try to meet them.<p>Well, i can't think about that..my focus right now is on my h and in order to make this work i have to leave that all behind. <p>Very true and honestly, if it does create such feelings, you should not read them. You are allowing another man to meet an emotional need. That is not good for your marriage and it is likely hindering your recovery and withdrawal from him. You need to be over him to have a fully intimate relationship with your husband.

Longing said that M's waiting might be divinely driven. I wondered the same thing.<p>You might want to read this web site - www.rejoiceministries.org<p>The husband in this ministry actually married another person while his wife continued to pray that their marriage would be restored. Today he is remarried to his original wife and they have a ministry to people whose spouses have left.<p>Just a thought!

Whether I or anyone else believes that your new marriage is "blessed" or not does not really matter. That's in God's hands. FWIW, tho, I am NOT one of those who believe that a marriage after divorce can never be right.<p>What I see here though is that your new marriage hasn't any legs to stand on. It started as an affair, and so probably rushed ahead of itself, fueled by the headiness of being illicit. You married someone who has a history of poor relationships. You married someone who doesn't want to put you first, or to be truly intimate with you. And, you seem to still have feeling for your xH.<p>What do you get out of the new marriage that makes it worth it to you, makes you willing to be his 4th priority? Personally, based on what you've written, I think I'd jump at his offer of annulment, but maybe there is a lot more to what you get out of the marriage than you've posted so far.<p>What do you get out of the marriage?

What do you get out of the marriage?<p>Excellent question. One I have had to ask myself as well. I am glad I read this today. I think it would be good for me to again reflect on such in my own situation. Perhaps I can even get my wife answer this question as well.<p>Tal-<p>It is not my place to judge you, "C" or "M." But, based on what you have written, I get the feeling that "M" is behaving more like a Christian (and has done so since the beginning) than anyone. "C" may may be in church ever day and may pray four hours a day but if you don't act like a Christian (and I am not saying he doesn't), then it does not matter how often you sit foot in His house.<p>I have a difficult time, with my new found understanding of faith (I was saved, for the second time, two weeks ago), that God would be in approval of C's behavior toward his children. I was also brought up in broken homes. I lived through two divorces, an emotionally abusive step-mother (with a very passive father at that time), I went to six different schools in three different states over the course of growing up. I know the misery of broken families. This situation cannot be good for any of the kids. It may actually be better for the one child to NOT be involved with the two of you right now. I don't honestly know. I do know that kids are not blind and they are not deaf and dumb. They know when things are not good they will often internalize it. I lived in utter misery for one year with my step-mother and two step-sisters. I became much of an introvert. I could often taste the anger and frustration in the air over dinner at nights. I don't know the situation with the one child you do care for it is very possible that, depending on their age, they may be able to tell what is going on.<p>[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

well, i've thought about that question a lot. What do i get out of this marriage? From him, nothing that really stands out, other than he makes me laugh..and when we're in both a good mood we can have a blast together!..he's a strong spiritual leader, We read the Bible together, we discuss what we've read. He gives money to charity, he pays his tithes faithfully.
He doesn't hang out all night, I know where he's at at all times. (this is a major change in him, as he was the famous don juan up until we got married) he's had plenty of opportunity to be married, lived with a couple of serious girlfriends, but he chose me. I guess he does care. <p>We've made some majorly stupid mistakes but deep inside i believe there is hope for us. For me, i would have to say, i want this to work out becuz i'm 25 years old, i don't want another divorce and one day i want to be able to stand before God unashamed..that i gave my best, that I can be a good wife. That's all I really want..to be a good wife and mother. My marriage is my ministry. Whether or not i still have feelings for my ex, i can't allow those to be magnified or manifest them to be a reality, then I would regret that I never gave my 2nd marriage a chance.
I don't want the guilt to hover over me all my life. I made a mistake by divorcing the first time. But i can only look ahead ..in the here and now and make the best of it.<p>I believe my h wants to do the same. I talked to him just a moment ago and brought up the subject of counseling at the urging of the replies here. He said for me to call around and let him know, and he will consider it. That is a huge step!<p>And I stay for my step son. He was only 3 going on 4 when we met..He's now almost 7. We are so close, and I want him to know that I'm not going to give up, I'm not going to walk out of his life. He has had soooo many women in and out of his life. I want to give him a better life. I want him to know Jesus Christ personally.<p>My h and I don't argue in front of my step son and if i'm upset or sad i will not let him see me like that, which is why i said earlier that i feel like i'm on stage most of the time performing. it can be exhausting!<p>JL, i agree what you said about his comment "like it or not" is uncaring. I told him what if I did not cook or clean or care for his son, or make love to him. I have never turned him down (his biggest needs are domestic and sexual) and said that is just me "like it or not"... he has a big problem with assigning roles in this marriage..It's my job to be submissive, it's my job to be a good mother, it's a mothers instinct to know this or know that. To him, emotional needs such as having an intimate conversation is irrelevant. I try to tell him, just becuz my needs are not teh same as his needs, does not mean they are less important. I don't think he really gets all this. he does help me sometimes around the house, but alot of the pressure falls on me. He doesn't ever complain about me not meeting his needs, becuz i have done the best i can.

I spend hours reading marriage building material, parenting skills, attending seminars, confernces. I have the desire to be a better person. He does too, he just needs someone to believe in him and not give up like so many people in his life have.<p>Maybe i sound pathetic.. i agree, i am sometimes.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply to me.

i want this to work out becuz i'm 25 years old, i don't want another divorce and one day i want to be able to stand before God unashamed..that i gave my best, that I can be a good wife. <p>Regardless of what happens, I think you will be able to do this one day (stand before God unashamed). No one deserves forgiveness from God but he gives it anyway, all we have to do is ask. If God can forgive you for what occured during your first marriage (and I know he can and has if you have asked for such), then he can certainly forgive you for any faults during your second marriage. God does not keep score.<p>
That's all I really want..to be a good wife and mother. My marriage is my ministry. Whether or not i still have feelings for my ex, i can't allow those to be magnified or manifest them to be a reality, then I would regret that I never gave my 2nd marriage a chance. <p>This is a troubling statement. It shouts desperation to me. I know that feeling. I have been there. When I learned of my wife's affair, I begged and pleaded with her to give me another chance. I would literally have done anything she asked of me for those three days prior to being placed on anti-d. Those feelings appear to already be a reality. Giving your marriage a second chance does not mean you allow yourself to be a doormat (as I did for about three weeks after learning of the affair). Your marriage, in my opinion, should not be your ministry. Your life and your relationship with God should be your ministry. If your marriage fails, it does not make you or your faith a failure. God does not like divorce but he permits it for certain things (infidelity for example). If you no longer love your H, then you really must ask yourself if you should continue the marriage. Neither of you is in the fog of infidelity so I cannot say to you, give it time and you will change your mind. In my case, my wife told me many mean things while in the "fog" of her infidelity. When it was over, she changed her tune. She realized that she did care greatly for me. Since you don't appear to have any fog to come out of, I can oly imagine it would take some serious change in behavior on the part of your H for you to start having feelings for him again.<p>I am changing my wife's feelings for me by putting her first and by showing her acts of kindness and love. Nothing in this world (emphasis this world) is more important to me. Not a job, not a house, not anything. There is not a tangible thing I would not be willing to give up if my wife thought it was necessary for us to have a loving relationship. She is close to being the same way (she still has guilt that is clouding much of her thoughts - has not forgiven herself).<p>Do you think your H is willing to change how you feel? Does he care?<p>I don't want the guilt to hover over me all my life. I made a mistake by divorcing the first time. But i can only look ahead ..in the here and now and make the best of it.<p>Absolutely, but, "if worst comes to worst", you need to know that at some time in the future, that you can make such a decision and not feel guiltly for doing so.<p>Perhaps try it from this angle: If your husband physically abused you and refused to stop, would you feel guilty for ending the relationship? I hope not. If your husband refused to be faithful, would you feel guilty for ending the relationship? <p>The only difference between the examples I give is their degree of severity to the issues in your marriage. If things don't improve eventually, you need to know that it is OK to leave a loveless relationship. I hope you don't think God intends you to live in a loveless relationship for the rest of your life. It may be his intent to test you as he did Job but even Job's torment did not last forever. Cling to your faith but don't blinded by it.<p>I believe my h wants to do the same. I talked to him just a moment ago and brought up the subject of counseling at the urging of the replies here. He said for me to call around and let him know, and he will consider it. That is a huge step!<p>Great! See it just takes a little initiative! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I am glad he is considering it.<p>I want to give him a better life. I want him to know Jesus Christ personally.<p>And I feel for you greatly. The fact is, you have the least ability to control his life. He can be snatched away from you at a moments notice. I think you have been a great influence in his life and upbringing but I hope you realize that you cannot stay in an unhealthy relationship for the child. My guess is that if your relationship with him is so good, that even if your marriage does not last, you may be able to continue to be a part of his life. I know my in-laws told me that even if we divorce, I will always be their son. Depending on your relationship with his mother, I am guessing that such would be possible.<p>You also need to consider the example you would be setting for him. My parents were terrible examples of what a loving relationship is. Because of this, it has caused many problems in my marriage. I simply did not know how to act in a committed and caring marriage. This child, if your relationship with you H does not improve, may be brought much the same way. If you become a doormat to keep your marriage together, the child may grow up to never respect women or worse, expect them to be a doormat.<p>My h and I don't argue in front of my step son and if i'm upset or sad i will not let him see me like that, which is why i said earlier that i feel like i'm on stage most of the time performing. it can be exhausting!<p>It does not work! That is EXACTLY what my wife's parents did, they never argued in front of her. Know what that did to her? My wife never learned how to resolve conflict in a relationship. Instead, my wife became a liar. She would lie to avoid conflict because she did not want to hurt anyone's feelings or to deal with disappointment. My wife never learned how to resolve conflict in a loving manner so she simply avoided any conflict. This made her resentful and it eventually lead to her affair. Kids need to see conflict and to see it resolved properly. It is a very important part of their emotional growth.<p>It's my job to be submissive, it's my job to be a good mother, it's a mothers instinct to know this or know that. To him, emotional needs such as having an intimate conversation is irrelevant.<p>And do you know, that you, in a manner, are teaching his son this as well? Maybe not so much yet, but as he gets older, this is exactly what he will learn from your relationship. I watched everyone of my aunts and uncles get a divorce. I watched their kids repeat the same behaviors they observed their parents do when they were kids. One of their kids has already divorced and remarried. This stuff is a learned bahavior. Where do you think your H learned this?<p>I try to tell him, just becuz my needs are not teh same as his needs, does not mean they are less important. I don't think he really gets all this. he does help me sometimes around the house, but alot of the pressure falls on me. He doesn't ever complain about me not meeting his needs, becuz i have done the best i can.<p>Perhaps the book His Needs, Her Needs would help. Also, you can try the Five Love Languages. To be honest with you, I did not know much of this stuff myself before I read it. We men can be clueless on this stuff.

I spend hours reading marriage building material, parenting skills, attending seminars, confernces. I have the desire to be a better person. He does too, he just needs someone to believe in him and not give up like so many people in his life have.<p>? Is that really why he is the way he is? Because other people have not believed in him? I look at what you wrote and I see at least three women in his life (the two mothers of his children and you) that completely believed in him. I don't know why he did not marry them but I doubt they wanted children out of wedlock. If he is the Christian you say he is, I doubt he wanted children out of wedlock either. You say he was a womanize (Don Wan) as well? Perhaps it is just me but I don't get how he is such a strong Christian. Perhaps he has recently come into his faith as I have. *shrug* I don't get the sense that this is an issue of his low-self esteem brought on by the opinions of others. I don't get that sense at all. Why does he need the belief of a person if he has such strong faith in God? All things are possible through God. He needs zero approval from others to have the strength and the faith to change. Think of ALL the people in the bible that were mocked, stoned, and murdered for their faith, yet they let no man keep them from what they believed. The doubt of man was not an obstacle to them. Think of Paul, who while in prison, continued to minister. He was mocked for his faith but he rejoiced in such mocking because he knew then even in the mocking, people were hearing of God. <p>Perhaps he simply does not believe his behavior is wrong. *shrug*<p>Maybe i sound pathetic.. i agree, i am sometimes. <p>No, not pathetic at all. Perhaps desperate but that is OK.<p>Another book I would recommend, by a Christian author (who is also a Christian couselor) is Love Must be Tough.<p>There is a time to be submissive and there is a time to be strong. Each has their proper place. This is exactly why this site discusses plan a (submissive behavior) and plan b (tough love). Some, like Dr. Phil, often recommend you don't be submissive at all (at least when there is an affair involved).<p>I think this may be a time for you to get tough - to regain some of your self-respect (I sense that you may not have as much as you used to - or that you never fully regained it from your affair - still living with guilt).<p>People don't respect you if you don't respect yourself. It is difficult to love someone that does not respect themself. It is difficult to love someone that does not love themself. I don't get the impression that you are making yourself the best person you can be. I get the feeling you are willing to do whatever it takes (to be the doormat) by meeting any whim of his in order to keep him. I can only tell you from my experience that "easy" women (woman that would do anything for my affection) don't remain attractive for long. I get the sense that he may simply not respect you very much. I may be completely wrong but that is my impression of what you have written so far (and that you don't respect yourself much either).<p>[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

ack! Lousy double post.<p>[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

Sorry you are hurting. But research shows that about 5% of relationships that begin as affairs last. As Dr. Phil said yesterday on Oprah "What they do with you, they'll do to you."<p>I hope that with prayer and counseling, you can make things work.

There is no shame in getting out of this marriage. God gave the blessing to the first marriage and god is being used to justify this one. <p>Your Husband needed a babby sitter, thus the reason you are 4th or 5th. You are there because you allow yourself to be there.<p>What makes me sad is that you gave up something that was real, maybe to boring for you though, the love of an honest man. For what?<p>The greatest sin is PRIDE, this is what we do when we try to "prove our choice right" even when we know it wasn't. The shame is not in the mistake, but in NOT addmitting our mistake and making it right.<p>I believe in MB but not in saving a marriage that should not have happened in the first place. This is not a marriage (partnership) this is a babbysitting survice.

Maybe that's what "Damsel, arise" means. Step out of this marriage that wasn't meant to be, and back to the first, "true" marriage.<p>By the way, the Gospels are in Greek, but "talitha cumi" is Aramaic. It's the language that Jesus himself spoke.