Well, I'm certainly not about to argue Bible... I'm woefully ignorant considering I have been a Christian for many years.<p>My point was, and is, that I believe, from my reading of the Bible, study and prayer, that my marriage, though a second one, is blessed by God.<p>Of course, in my case, my ex and I both had "Godly reason" for divorce - adultery. You can certainly do a search on my story if you so desire.<p>I think it's dangerous to insist that the first marriage is the only marriage, no matter what. It belittles the vows taken, even a second time, before God.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>I think it's dangerous to insist that the first marriage is the only marriage, no matter what. It belittles the vows taken, even a second time, before God.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Alright, then if it is okay a second time, what about a third, fourth or fifth? How many is good enough?

So according to both those scriptures if Talitha divorces her current husband and then remarrys her first according to the bible she would be wrong to do so. <p>True, and that is why none of are professional bibble scholars. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In the above link, it states:<p><strong>b. What is the reason for the restriction that they could never remarry each other?<p>No reason is given for the restiction forbidding the remarriage of two people once they had entered a new marriage. It certainly would prevent a man from divorcing his wife and marrying another woman as an experiment, thinking he could obtain a second divorce and return to his first mate if he chose to do. </strong><p>And:<p><strong>Of course, while this may have been the rabbinical consensus, it certainly doesn’t reflect the biblical view of marriage! The rabbinical schools of Christ’s day were often wrong in their interpretation of the Old Testament. </strong><p>*shrug* What do I know. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I think it's dangerous to insist that the first marriage is the only marriage, no matter what. It belittles the vows taken, even a second time, before God. <p>Yep.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Okieman:
<strong><p>Alright, then if it is okay a second time, what about a third, fourth or fifth? How many is good enough?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>If you married once and your spouse kept cheating on you (which happened to me) and then married again (as the Bible says you may) and that spouse cheated and cheated on you, then I would think that the Bible now (and again) stands behind divorce and remarriage. <p>If you are marrying three, four, or five people who cheat on you, then I think you have a bigger problem that keeping your vows. I'd be asking why you keep coupling yourself with serial cheaters.<p>We can argue this till the cows come home. Understand, I respect and love marriage. In my case (and I will only touch quickly on this) I tried very hard to save it. My ex, in the end, would not stop his affairs (and continued with his last OW for almost two years later, when SHE dumped HIM for not marrying her!). God allows for a divorce in that instance, and my conscience is clear in that respect.

To NB -<p>You linked adultery to my question about three, four or five times. I was asking that question in general about second marriages as your statement posed. I believe adultery is the only ground for divorce and remarriage. Divorce unfortunately occurs for a myriad of reasons, some good, mostly some bad. But remarriage is not allowed.

Okie,<p>So that I'm understanding --<p>Are you saying that remarriage is NEVER allowed?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>
Are you saying that remarriage is NEVER allowed?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>IMHO that is correct. Jesus cited one reason and one reason only for divorce and remarriage - adultery. Death is the only other thing that frees a married person. In the OT if a person was caught in adultery, the punishment was death. I think that would free up the living spouse to remarry.

So, since it's no longer OT times, and adulterers are no longer put to death (the ONLY reason God allows remarriage in your opinion) then... we, in your opinion of what God says, are suppose to remain unmarried (and of course, celibate) FOREVER?<p>Where then, is the God of mercy?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>we, in your opinion of what God says, are suppose to remain unmarried (and of course, celibate) FOREVER?<p>Yes. What would be wrong with that?<p>Where then, is the God of mercy?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>He is also a God of justice. When he tells us to do something, he doesn't tell us why. But if we listen to him, we will get his best. When we disobey his laws/commands (regardless if we believe in him or not, his laws still stand) we pay a price. We reap what we sow. Is it possible that so many marriages/lives are in disrepair today because we have decided to ignore God?<p>Please read Matthew 19:1-12. I didn't make up my philosophy/beliefs in a vacuum. It's his rules, not mine.

Okieman,<p>It occurs to me, that even if I accept everything you say and Talitha does as well, it is not our place to judge. It is Talitha's journey to take, the prices are hers to pay, and her rewards will be determined in the by and by.<p>She is leaning on her faith to help her see the way for her to proceed. She is not leaning on YOUR faith nor your interpretation of the bible. I believe that her faith will grow and change as she proceeds and perhaps that is God's plan. I have no idea.<p>She did come here asking advice and yours is a valid as anyone. Only she, based what transpires in the rest of her life, will ever know if any us are right. <p>So why don't we stop trying to translate the bible further, even the scholars disagree on these matters. Talitha has many issues to address, choices to make, things to learn. We can offer her our best counsel, but condemnation isn't really going to address her issues.<p>You, as I and others, simply have to decide if we are going to communicate with her or want to associate with her if we feel what she is doing is wrong. We cannot lead her life nor bring her to Jesus as we know him. That journey she must make.<p>See what I mean?? I hope so. Let's turn this into a helping Talitha thread again.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Thanks JL for getting me back on track!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

JL, <p>You took the words that I was just about to write and made it sound even better that anything I could have said. <p>We can argue scenerio after scenerio when it comes to marriage, none of that pertains to Talitha's exact situation and what she should do. Personally I'm curious. She said that she was going to talk to her husband last night and being the noisy person that I am I was wondering what happened. <p>
So Talitha you want to give us an update? Either on this thread or you can start a new one.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>
See what I mean?? I hope so. Let's turn this into a helping Talitha thread again.
JL</strong><hr></blockquote><p>How do you help someone in general where you are not willing to abide by a standard? The problem with threads and forums like this is that a lot of bad advice and information can be broadcast. I have seen it. Emotional opinions have very little value; knowledge and experience are what work. And of course, you can get off on tangents not directly related to the topic at hand.
This does not relate to the author of this thread, but in general - some people instead of being coddled need to be shaken up and given a good dose of reality.
By the way, we are called to judge and we judge every day. We are just supposed to do it correctly.

Okieman,<p>All I know is that I cannot sit in for God in Judgement. I tell people here I can do two things. I can assess a situation or person and decide whether to become involved. And I can discriminate by action and thought. Both of those actions are to be based on my beliefs and should be done with the best interests of myself and the other people involved foremost in my mind.<p>I can even teach, but the one thing I cannot do is JUDGE. Perhaps you and I use different translations of God's word, the bible, but I don't remember being told I was to JUDGE. <p>As for giving Talitha or anyone else the wrong advice, well so be it. All do their best, but believe me I do know one thing for sure, you nor anyone else leads your life like I would lead it for you.<p>I am confident that Talitha will not let me lead her life for her, so she is protected from my incorrect advice and even my correct advice. She is also is protected from everyone else. She must make the decisions, she must cull from what she reads here what is best for her, and then she must answer to her God for the mistakes in actions and judgements she makes concerning her life.<p>As I said before, you have posted and offered your assessment of her position and what she should do. I have done the same, so have others. Surprise, our advice differs, but actually if you go back it doesn't differ as much as it seems. All say to look within herself, look at what she believes, listen to her clergyman's advice, and then make her best decision knowing that there will be an accounting.<p>I think one doesn't need protecting from the advice of a board like this. One needs to read, think, ask questions, and then go within themselves to decide what is the best decision. If it goes against their faith, they will pay. If it goes against the "true word of God" they will pay, but we are not the "true word of God" and neither is our human interpretation of the Bible.<p>The general messages are very clear and explicit, the detailed messages, are shrouded in interpretation and seeming contradiction. Why? I don't know, but it causes us to think, and perhaps that is the purpose.<p>So after all of this rambling, I would suggest to you that we cannot protect her from us and we cannot lead her life for her. She has been given the ability to chose and she must.<p>I hope you see where I am coming from.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]<p>[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

Just as a final thought from me:<p>I am not around MB all the time anymore... I am happily in the midst of other second wives on a site devoted to the special circumstances I face daily.<p>I do however, visit MB a few times a day, to check up on friends and to see if there's anyone I can reach out to... as I have with Talitha.<p>I stopped here, on this thread, because I see a woman who is confused about her first H. I have felt that same confusion. I loved my ex-H when we divorced, and he loved me, but we were both too prideful and stupid to stop the divorce. However, that is neither here nor there now, as I have given my heart to another man, who I have married.

Talitha, I won't be back to argue whether you are right or wrong... because I have moved past wanting to argue about this subject. I've talked it to death on these boards, and in my life. I am ready to look forward with my HUSBAND, who I have chosen to love, honor and cherish.<p>I simply wanted to tell you that I think that this marriage, your second marriage, is not only viable, but blessed by God, because you see the mistakes you've made and asked God's forgiveness. You are right that only God knows your heart and soul. I hope that you will do whatever necessary to save the marriage, if at all possible, and especially since you love him. <p>Best wishes, and keep us updated on your progress.<p>God Bless!<p>[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</p>

....Bear with me as I type these words..I am in such pain and turmoil right now... I want my current marriage to work out soooo bad! i really do! and this hurts! I have listed and paid attention to every thing you guys have written here and I almost wish someone could make the decisions for me, but like JL said i must live my life the way I think is right.<p>Just an update.... Last night I was about to talk with my h when the phone rang and it was my sister upset and crying, her 19year old son, is arrested and put in jail last night for a rape that he says did not occur. Whether it took place or not, I was upset and crying and wanted to offer my help and condelences. <p>After the phone call, My h said "are you ready to get something to eat" I said yes, still crying...The ride to the pizza store was in silence, while I prayed and cried on behalf of my nephew. My h said NOTHING! Okay... I thought that this is the part where he's supposed to lend a shoulder to cry on, tell me it will be okay, and he's here to encourage and support me???? Am I missing something???<p>He asks me a question and i purposely ignore him, He screams "brenda! what's wrong with you? I finally tell him I'm a little upset by the news i recvd from my sister. He finally lets out what has been building in him the entire ride...<p>That my nephew deserved it, he was wild and everyone knows it, yet no one tried to stop him and now everyones boo-hooing becuz he's in jail and now suicidal, and that I should just get over it, becuz I'm ruining another weekend and i'm bringing him and my step son down with my attitude?? <p>I can't not believe he said these things!! Okay even if it were true the fact now is, my h is sooooo selfish! <p>This past Wed, I went to the dr and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome..hopefully this does not lead to cancer, but i'm praying that i don't get sick, becuz I would feel so alone. I'm so tired of being expected to act happy and put on a smile, why can't i hurt and express my pain? To me, if i'm not hurting about him, then it's not okay.<p>He started yelling at me and said if he would hvae known being married would be like this he would never have done it and he can see now why he waited so long.<p>He also said, he was going to take his step son to his mothers house becuz he didn't need to be in our home, and at least she doesn't cry all the time!<p>and get this.....after saying all this, He's now in the shower doing his evening ritual of prayer and meditation!!!!! Unbelievable!<p>Forgive me for rambling, right now it's taking everything I hvae to keep from emailing my ex at least there I know i would have someone who loves me and my family as much as i do! <p>That's why i'm here, cuz i don't want to react based on what i'm feeling.. I'm not going to email him, just talking out of pain.. sorry

Hi Talita,<p>I've been reading your story and wanted to add a couple of comments.<p>First, it seems that both of you are keeping your ex's too close. Regardless of how the marriage began, I very few survive with an ex waiting in the wings, much less involved in your life routine's. It's one thing to be cordial and respectful and co-parent. But to run off to the ex when the current is acting "ugly" is not the answer.<p>Also, I commend you for seeking a spiritual path that is "right" with God. I know you are struggling with this. Just want to comment that your H is not the end all and be all with regard to what is right in God's eyes. In my very humble opinion, from what you have written, your H seems pretty controlling. Please remember that we each stand at the gates of heaven alone. <p>I'm no expert, but I'm also sensing some mild depression. While faith in God is the ultimate cure for depression, not everyone is at that point on their spiritual walk and thus, need help from "worldly" counselors. Your H is right that we should turn things over to God and He will make it right, BUT we don't always hear nor accept His answer.<p>God Bless you on your journey.<p>Enlightened

This maybe easier said than done, but have you considered a separation?<p>Separating doesn't necessarily end your marriage, but it can give you some space and breathing room to think things out without the daily rollercoaster ride. It will alsoo prepare you for living alone if you or husband decide to divorce the other.<p>But don't have contact with your first husband during this period. It's not only because you are married to second husband, but because any rebound relationship is probably doomed to fail. But I don't have to tell you that, do I?<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe

Brenda--<p>I've been keeping up with your thread, and have seen you're in good hands. I do apologize for waiting this long to contribute anyway.<p>You're under a lot of stress and have just received news of a personal diagnosis. On top of that, family trials and emotional turbulence! In the face of all this, it is very easy to forget to take care of someone very important. YOU! Remember that. Sleep well, eat right, exercise. Do feel-good things for you too...relaxing baths, reading for pleasure, a hobby, perhaps even dancing? These things will help rejuvenate you, and you will be able to face each day with hope and a sense of purpose, better equipped to "be there" for others. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>FWIW, I agree with your decision of no-contact with your Ex. It has already been mentioned and I believe it's true...continued contact with him is an EA which hampers your ability to truly commit to working on your marriage now. I would consider it an EA because some of your ENs are met from any continued contact. It is also like a "safety net" which would affect diligence. In other words, hoping that he's waiting for you means you're not totally committed to making your current marriage the very best that it can be...there's a loophole, i.e., a means of escape. Does that make sense? Patch up that loophole so that all your marriage energy feeds back and forth between you and H. <p>I am certainly not saying stay in a relationship if you find it to be not what you want. But while there is love, and HOPE, continue to find ways of putting forth your best efforts. <p>Oops, ran out of time...I'd like to come back and offer a different perspective on your exchange about your nephew, etc. Just some more food for thought. Will as soon as I can. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there. I'm glad you're posting here at MB. Whether you realize it or not, you're helping other people too. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]