WS had a EA over 20 years ago and it was painful but I had small children that I could not care for alone. We stayed together but did NO recovery at all....never once talked about the A. I was so codependent and could not live with out WS. <p>This EA/PA is very different and I agree that if WS can do this again after causing himself, me and others so much pain, that there is no way I would reconcile again. (I have not even decided if I will reconcile now) I have learned to be a better me and I KNOW I can make it alone now. I DO NOT want to go through this again.<p>BR---(Yep for those of you not in recovery yet....you thought the affair was bad...recovery is worse).<p>BR---What does this mean???? That is scary.<p>TW

One affair shame on her, two affairs shame on me. <p>I would have to agree with the thought, however, that I did say at one time that I would leave her if she had an A (turns out she had 4), so I really don't know what I would do if she did it again. Right now I think this has been a life changing experience and has really opened my eyes to the realities of life and marriage, and with the knowledge I have gained through all of this I think the wise choice would be to leave, once can be percieved as a mistake but after that it isn't a mistake or ignorance, rather it is a total lack of respect, honesty, and caring for the other person in the marriage. I agree with snl, when do you stop giving them chances....life is to short.

I know for sure that that would be end of our marriage. We only have so many years to live. This is so hard and painful to deal with. Our aim is to one day feel happy and live the good life again. If there was another A I would know that the only way to have some hope of a rich and fulfilling life would be minus him. As much as I love him and would hate to leave him, I know that another A would tell me to get real, face it, this relationship is not good for you.
C&S

Bramble Rose, Topie25, and Longing -<p>Why is Recovery harder?<p>Topie25 - You said the A wasn't the issue - everything else was.....could you explain that?<p>(I'm in plan A, although WH move out of state to "work" , so as Steve says it's really a psuedo plan B)<p>
As for a next time, I don't have it in me. I'm not sure I have it in my now, but then again, we are not in recovery.
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Bramble Rose, Topie25, and Longing -<p>Why is Recovery harder?<p>Topie25 - You said the A wasn't the issue - everything else was.....could you explain that?<p>(I'm in plan A, although WH move out of state to "work" , so as Steve says it's really a psuedo plan B)<p>
As for a next time, I don't have it in me. I'm not sure I have it in my now, but then again, we are not in recovery.
[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

I just gave WH another chance, d-day number 2 was just over a month ago. I feel like a fool for falling for his crap again, but somehow I still want to work on this M. <p> I cant answer why exactly. My brain is screaming get out now, this is a pattern that he'll never stop. He has let me down twice, and both times in the exact same manner..... My heart is whispering, you married this man for better or worse, sickness and health.<p>He is a very sick man at the moment (chatline addiction, alcholic, depression) and I feel if I left him, I would be the one betraying him. Even as I am typing this I realize how stupid that sounds. I have always been a logical thinker, almost like a marriage is a business deal. And if one of the parties breaks the contract, then no more business. Yet, my emotional side looks at him, and I know that I will never stop loving him.<p>But to answer the question, knowing now what I do, no, I would not stay committed to him should there be a 3rd time. If he could be so cold and disrespectful to me again, he's on his own, and good luck to him.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WillGetThruThis:
<strong>Topie25 - You said the A wasn't the issue - everything else was.....could you explain that?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>As you know from your reading the articles on this site (and the numerous mentionings of it on the boards) - the A's happened due to the choice of the WS. But the environment of the M prior to the A is what made them feel the need to, um, whatever! (get out, release, have fun, etc). So, the A was simply a symptom of the marital problems, not the cause.<p>So, once you're in recovery, you have to work on fixing all that was toxic in your M prior to the A. There are very logical reasons for the feelings that lead our WS's to choose an A as their outlet. Basically, their love banks ran so low, that they went elsewhere to get their needs met. When in recovery, you have to start working on meeting those EN's. <p>We start to learn about meeting them during our Plan A's. But I found, that there was something envigorating about it all - the 'newness' of becoming a better me. Ideally, it sticks with us. But you know what? Old habits DO die hard - and once you're back in the M saddle again, it is all too easy to fall back on old 'routines'. <p>Recovery seems to start out by dealing with the A's. You know all of those countless questions you have running through your head that you feel the need for answers to? Well, once you get the answers (which are all the same, but we need to sincerely hear them from our WS), then you move on to fixing all of the other stuff. And more likely than not, there is an awful LOT of other stuff. You take it one issue at a time (as best you can), but you're also dealing with a new M, a new spouse, and a new you. It's very draining.<p>It's at that point that you realize that this whole thing isn't about the A at all!!! Hard to believe, isn't it? But it's true.<p>Does that help any? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

I'm still having my doubts with the first one. So no way. I have more respect for myself than that.

Topie25 ,<p>Karen, thanks for your response. I think it does help. Right now my WH is only home a few days a month, but I think if he were here all the time, IT WOULD BE DRAINING!!!<p>My IC just said the same thing to me last week, it's not about the affair. I was outraged - of course it is....that's why it hurts so much. I can see how working through all of this is draining, emotionally as well as physically. Last time WH was home, he admitted to 2 PA's that I asked him about. I don't think he see the EA part as harmful.<p>This may sound like a stupid question but does recovery start when they admit the A(s) or when they promise to end it? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Whoa, Conqueror!<p>There are a number of people here I can think of that have said their spouse's were once betrayed in previous relationships, now they're the betrayer. Twyla, Zorweb, New Beginning...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Conqueror:
<strong>If you can do this to someone having already have felt it yourself and THAT didn't stop you, then what would?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Learning how to prevent yourself from having an A. Your own personal set of vulnerabilities. <p>THAT kind of knowledge is imperitive. Not just knowledge of pain.<p>It's also been said that betrayed spouses are actually vulnerable to having secondary affairs because their "Taker" side comes out after having been the "Giver" for so long. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> Isn't one of the reasons a WS who doesn't do it again because of witnessing the pain of the BS? And that's just SEEING it, not FEELING it.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Some people say this. Some people believe it. Maybe it's true for some. But I've also heard people say "I NEVER thought I'd cheat on my spouse after having gone thru that same pain in my first marriage!". So it's not the deterrant you may think it should be.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Honestly, is there any reason for me to continue in this world of his? Is there anyone else here on these boards who has been in my situation, whose WS used to be a BS in a previous M? Have I been deluding myself this whole time as my family keeps telling me? Is this why I keep feeling that I will never get over it if I stay married to him?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Whether or not you continue on, C, should not be based on this "BW turned WS" factor. I'm not saying you should STAY in a relationship because of this one factor, either. You have alot of other factors/issues to look at before you can come to any conclusions.

NOT JUST NO, BUT HELL NO!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WillGetThruThis:
<strong>This may sound like a stupid question but does recovery start when they admit the A(s) or when they promise to end it? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] </strong>[/QUOTE}<p>Admitting the A doesn't mean they are wanting to end it. <p>Promising to end it doesn't mean they actually will. Or promise full-heartedly, only to "slip" back into the A. <p>And they have to get thru that icky "withdrawal" period before true recovery work can begin.<p>And any contact with the old OM or OW--even if they are remorseful afterwards--puts you back to square one on the recovery gameboard.<p>To me, recovery begins when the WS commits themselves to the marriage, is doing the recovery work and trying to meet your needs as well...<p>Ok, going back to my "home" forum now, In Recovery. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WillGetThruThis:
<strong>does recovery start when they admit the A(s) or when they promise to end it? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>When their actions scream out louder than their words, then you know it's for real.<p>IMO, when admitting the A's, it's a great step for them. Mainly because so much of the fantasy associated with the secrecy of an A is gone. Then again, I'm sure there are many WS's out there who were happy to get it out in the open, like a huge weight had been lifted from their shoulders.<p>I would love to have a dollar for every WS associated with this board (mostly the WS's of the BS's who post here) who has SAID they will end their A!! I'd be one rich woman!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Just remember: ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!! You keep that in mind when in plan A (and recovery too!), and you keep that in mind with your WS. Just as we have to PROVE ourselves to our spouses, they have to do the same for us.<p>Karen

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
If your WS were to have another A, and knowing what you now know, would you still aim for recovery?
[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p> HELL NO! I believe in second chances. After that all bets are off. If he did it again after all that we have been through and what we have accomplished then I would know that it was a fatal character flaw in him, and not just an isolated, horrible mistake. Getting the trust back was hard enough after one A, it would be impossible for me after 2.

I would never be able to handle this again. We have both had A's in our early years and had promised we would never hurt each other like that again, and after 17yrs. he has a MLC and finds someone else. It was devastating to find out and I still can't believe he would ever hurt me like that again. I know he's sorry and it hurts him to see how badly he has hurt me, but I don't think he really realizes how much it destroyed a part of me and things will never be the same. I already told him if it ever happened again that would be it. I'm too old to wait forever.

This thread has made me feel SO MUCH BETTER!! I have been mulling through the thoughts of how I wouldn't go through it all again should H have another A. I was actually feeling somewhat guilty by it too! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As usual for this board, this is another case where I've found comfort in knowing that I'm not the only one who feels plan A'd out.<p>Karen

No, I would not tolerate another affair. The only reason I let him stay was because he convinced he had CHANGED. If it happened again, I would know that he had not changed after all. It was hard enough for me to learn to love and respect him again after D-Day, I know it would kill every feeling I have for him if it happened again.

Chalk up another no answer.<p>For the past 4 months since D-Day my world has been turned upside down, everything that I thought I knew and believed about my W has been questioned. The "facts" that I gleaned while dating have again been questioned. <p>I Love her very much, and truly have doubt if I can make it through this first time - but that is only on my very down days when triggers seem to be hitting me from all sides.<p>As it has been said before I think I can probably struggle through recovery with her this once. After this, no dice, uh-uh, not gonna happen.