Hi Paul<p>This is a replay to your last post on "My Story" thread. Busy weekend so I'm just getting back with you. <p>1. While in the fog, was I not able to constructively talk with H about M? A: It isn't that I wasn't able to talk about it. It is more that I didn't talk about it. I had hinted that I was unhappy with M but never came right out and said it in so many words. If I had, I am sure that we would have been able to talk about it almost as well as we are now. But during the time of the A, my H had an idea that there was a problem. He just didn't have any idea how big the problem was.<p>2. What were my long term plans with the OM? A: We made lots of "life" plans. The kinds of plans that everyone makes. "Someday we will....(fill in the blank)". Some examples...go on vacation to...have X number of kids...live happily ever after. It may seem that I am being a bit flipant about this. I appologize for that. It is just that I can no longer remember many of the specifics of the plans we talked about. My H could tell you more about that but I cannot. My H would also tell you that that is me rewriting history and that may be true. However, in my opinion, I see those kinds of details as rather insignificant. But I can tell you that we built an imaginary, fantasy, "this is how life will be for us someday" kind of plans.<p>3. How were conversations with H during this period of the A? A: Can't really answer that one either. I don't remember having significant conversations with H during this time. We weren't spending much time together. <p>You said that you think your wife is overstating the OMs strengths and understating his weakness. I could totally agree with that. I know that is what I did. For a while, I would ignore the "bad" things about him. When I stop ignoring these things, I began to see just what kind of person he really is. I started to see the things that he didn't want me to see. I began to see that he wasn't the love of my life by any stretch of the imagination.<p>We all do this. And I'm not talking just about us WSs. We all do it. We do it when we first start dating. We call it infatuation. Love is when we can accept a person even with the weaknesses. Infatuation will make us overlook quite a lot of things.<p>Keep your head held high.<p>Regretting

Thankyou so much, R.<p>All of your answers fit with my wife's reactions so far, so there is still hope. I think we have gone further off the rails than you so recovery will take longer, if it comes.<p>As for your recovery, I would express your regret and get on rebuilding the you that your H fell in love with. Show him how to put it behind you and rebuild. That's what he needs to do - forgiveness will free him of a burden, or bitterness will sour everything he does. He will find the way.

Hi Regretting,<p>Can I jump in and ask a couple of questions (hope you don't mind, Paul - my guess is you'd like to ask the same)....<p>You mentioned that you eventually started to see OM's flaws, recognizing him as not the "love of your life". How long did that take for you? If you were separated from H, how long of a separation did you have before this started making sense? Was there anything going on in your M relationship (or WS/OP relationship) that helped or hindered your personal progress to that point (e.g. LB'ing)? What was your H doing while you were making this progress?<p>You talked about some gradiose plans with OM. I know my WW has those too - moving overseas, being "special" in a foreign land, etc. - but in some rare moments of clarity, I think she realizes that she doesn't even really want those things! She wants a nice simple life with me! So was there a point in time where your fantasy started to crumble on its own? Was it simply a part of the A's deterioration? What things contributed to said deterioration? (For example, thinking about the sample in SAA - separation forced reality to enter the picture, and suddenly, planning the REAL details didn't seem so fun for Sue.)

PB....thanks for the words of encouragement. Working on myself and trying to "put things behind us" is exactly what I am working on.<p>JR...If you would like more background, I would suggest you read "my story" that I posted here. But in the mean time, I will answer your questions as best as I can.<p>The PA lasted about 7 weeks. The OM was a boyfriend from high school so I think it was left over feelings from then. Things progressed very quickly for us. From first contact to last was about 3 months.<p>There has been no seperation thus far from my H. I am not sure I understand the "personal progress" question. If you are talking about figuring out which one I wanted, all I can say is that it was like waking up. The OM had been doing a lot of LBing all along. I started to recognize it for what it was, looked around and realized I didn't have it as bad as I thought I did. I realized that I love my H and he didn't deserve what I was doing.<p>The fantasy fell apart when I "woke up". It was something that was always "someday" as far as I was concerned. I realized that I didn't want the someday. Things that contributed to this would be hard to explain in detail. Let me just put it under the nutshell of LBing on the part of the OM and me not taking it any longer from him. I realized he wasn't the person I was making him out to be. I realized that my reality was far better than the fantasy.

Mind if I throw my 2 cents in here? I feel I may be somewhat qualified since I am Regretting's H.<p>It seems that my W has some self-esteem issues that she was able to keep buried pretty well. I screwed up by spending far more time away from her than with her, and she took this as not being "in-love" anymore. This, coupled with the self-esteem problems, really made her question her life decision of marrying me. When she and OM made contact it was a flood of old feelings. I knew of some of this contact, but was really not concerned.<p>Paul, you ask "While in the fog, was I not able to constructively talk with H about M?" As we have pieced together the big picture from our individual sides, she said she would scream and hollar at me. Unfortunately, I was not at home when she did this, so I had no idea just how much anger she had with me about the distance that had crept between us due to my actions. I will also add that SF during this time would best be described as lackluster. As for the long-term plans made - well there is one hell of a stumbling point with me... still. Not sure of the exact question you had, as I read from Regretting's response to it. As for the conversations with me during the A - you have to remember that I had no idea what was going on then, other than I knew we were not as close as we had once been. She ended the A very shortly before I found out, so we never really had the time where she was still actively in the A and I knew about it. The conversations that we did have as I recall were pleasant, but somewhat superficial - dealing with daily events and plans for the weekend, things of that nature.<p>Paul, you also say "As for your recovery, I would express your regret and get on rebuilding the you that your H fell in love with. Show him how to put it behind you and rebuild. That's what he needs to do - forgiveness will free him of a burden, or bitterness will sour everything he does. He will find the way."
Yes, she is quite remorseful and loving, tender, caring, all the good stuff. My stumbling block that I have is that this could happen period. It makes me apprehensive of what the future holds since there were those plans made (some of them were for years off, since he will be out of the military then). The bitterness will sour everything I do? Ya, it is making the recovery that much harder for me, but I have yet to overcome this one, but I think I am doing better now than I was a month or two ago. Time is helping.<p>J.R. - You ask what I was doing while she was making the progress of ending the A. Well, to sum it up nicely, I did exactly squat. I did not know what was going on, though a couple of weeks before D-Day I began to realize just how messed up our lives were becoming, but really did not do anything drastic to try to change it. I mentally relive this period quite often, looking for clues I missed, wondering what I saw as more important than my wife and son. I cannot figure me out in that timeframe, much less her.<p>My D-Day was on a Tuesday night. She had "officially" ended the affair the Monday morning before. I knew about the Monday breakfast meeting, still not sure about whether or not there was an A going on, but when nothing was said about the breakfast on Monday night I was pretty sure.<p>My story is listed in my sig file below. I hope I have not stepped on any toes by jumping in here.<p>Oh, one more thing, Regretting - I Love You.

Thanks JABH,<p>The actions that gave rise to your situation are a lot like mine. This has been a great thread for me. As far as forgiveness is concerned, this is why the description of the 'fog' is so important to me. If someone has food poisoning you forgive them for vomiting. If they are in a fog and make poor decisions you can forgive those. The consequences of either case just have to dealt with and cleared up.<p>You seem to be in the position I want to be in. Between you you can resolve all the issues that gave rise to your problems and you must have learnt an enormaous amount from the experience. Never let it happen again.<p>I just hope I can get to where you are.

JABH,<p>Do I detect from recent posts that you have a lot of trouble committing. Perhaps you can't make your mind up because you cannot see a compelling reason either way. You could try to rebuild for a specific time and if you like the results stick with it and if not jump ship. <p>I'm sure you must care enough to try - don't squander the opportunity.

Paul- <p>By you saying recent posts, I would presume you are talking about Regretting's posts, seeing as how I have not had too many lately. <p>Yep, you would be correct that I have been having problems recommitting. I have been so busy focusing on negative thoughts that I have not allowed any time for the positive ones to occur. I was working on pushing Regretting slowly out of my life, one LB after another. <p>My D-Day was 4 months ago today. What an emotionally exhausting 4 months it has been. She "ended" the A one day before D-Day. I put quotes around it because ending it was going to be done over time, slowly. She began ending it the day before I found out, I just advanced her timetable. <p>The methods she used to end it left many questions in me. She had sayings such as "..I cannot make you happy right now, I have other things to do. Give me time" and "...don't give up on us right now, this will be over soon" Things of that nature. <p>Finding out that is how it was ended did not exactly inspire confidence in me that over meant over. I have spent the past 4 months watching, talking, checking, and trying to trust. It has been a very difficult timespan and there have been countless segments of time that could have been used to continue the A, but I honestly don't think were.<p>Paul, I do care enough to try, I just was not really sure 4 months ago how much she cared for me.

Regretting,<p>Another little question for you. I've noticed that my W seems particularly anxious when going to see OM. Last night I came in 5 minutes before the agreed time and she was ready, coat on and with this pained expression on her face. I would expect her to be quite relaxed and happy in anticipation of her liaison. Any thoughts on why?<p>And how is your recovery going - It sounds like you two should be getting closer now.

bump

Paul Bradley<p>Not knowing your W and the situation, I can't really say why she would be tense about seeing the OM. I can tell you that when I began to cut it off with the OM, I was a bit tense. Please remember that at this time, my H didn't know about the A. My tension came from not know what he would do when I told him that I no longer wanted to continue with our relationship as it had been. I didn't want to upset him to the point of making trouble for me and my family. However, I didn't have to worry about that for long because my H found out the next day. Not to give you any false hope, but maybe her relationship with the OM is starting to fall apart and things are tense between them and she wasn't looking forward to seeing him. That is really the only thing I can think of. Have you talked to her about this? Can you talk to her about this?<p>And thanks for asking about me...things seem to be going pretty well right now. We have had a few bumps but nothing we haven't been able to overcome after a short period of time. Today is a trigger day. So we will have to see how it goes.<p>Sorry I can't be any more help. Keep me posted.<p>Regretting

Thanks Regretting,<p>We're still not really talking. I'm trying to give her all the space she needs and probing this point would be difficult right now. I'm hoping the shine is fading on their A but it may just be wishful thinking. I can't interpret this as a bad sign though.<p>I'm glad you're recovering - What is today's trigger?

Paul<p>I would agree with you about not interupting this as a bad sign. I can't do that either. That is why I made the suggest of what it might be. I hope things are looking up for you. I know it is hard but hang in there if that is what you truly want to do.<p>As for the trigger of yesterday in my life...well, I hate to actually type it but...yesterday was the 6 month mark of the EA turning into a PA. My H had planned ahead though. He took the day off of work and we spent it together. There were a few rough spots but all in all it was a very good day. Not near as bad as either one of us thought it might be. <p>Keep me posted of how things are going with you.<p>Regretting

Hi Regretting,<p>Something new has come to light. OM has been chucked out by his W and has gone to stay with her (now ex) best friend. I think my W has competition with less baggage and OM is decidedly weak. Could be an interesting phase.<p>I assume you've read SAA and are following the rules - you are going to get there. I know it.

Hey Paul<p>This could definately be an interesting phase. Maybe good news for you and your M?!<p>Yes, both my H and I have read SAA. Also read His Needs Her Needs, and Marriage Insurance. I am currently reading Torn Asunder. And my H is reading The Monogamy Myth. Both of those were recommended by people here. So far I have like TA and my H has said that TMM has really helped him. Maybe you should consider checking those out. Don't know if they will help but you never know.<p>Hope things are looking up for you.<p>Regrettting

Hi Regretting,<p>I'm back to you for the female perspective. This morning while getting her underwear, wearing her nightdress( I was in bed ) she allowed me the best and longest view of her cleavage in months. Of course she wasn't looking at me. She's avoided any flashing for some time. Good sign or just luck?

^^^^