Longing I need to address what you've said regarding my letter to my spouse. When the letter was written it wasn't meant as a threat, a bashing, or to make him feel guilt. It was my last word on the subject of "Can this marriage be saved?" I almost wish he had gotten angry, I wish he would have lashed out. I wish he showed some emotion, ANY emotion. But he didn't because he couldn't because he was with his very own mistress named Toshiba.<p>You're assuming that I had the A to get even or get his attention. I had the affair for only one reason, because I was dying, yes dying right before his eyes and he never even noticed. I talked calmly, I begged, I pleaded for him to hear me. I made counseling appointments and he refused to attend. I went alone. I tried finding things to occupy my time, things that were good and wholesome. I was Homeroom mother for both children. I was on every committee at school and church. I directed the school plays. I sewed, I baked, I cleaned and painted. I volunteered at nursing homes. I was mother of the year and volunteer of the year. But I felt no pride in that because there was something missing in me. I was a hollow core performing by rote. <p>When I grew weary I tried the computer. I chatted, played games and unfortunately I met Richard, the OM. My H told me and this is the exact quote "I'm glad you have the computer things to do so that I can relax and watch the TV without you bothering me every night". Let's just say that was probably the final blow, the one that sent me into the land of infidelity.<p>I take absolute full complete blame for my A. But I see it a little differently than you do. Have you heard of battered wife syndrome? Where a woman kills her spouse because of his years of battering? Well, I claim ignored wife syndrome regarding my A. I NEEDED to feel something. I needed to feel wanted and loved. I needed to feel worthy of love and I didn't. I found that with Richard and as wrong as it was it enabled me to find myself. I am whole now and I know that I can be whole and be alone. I love myself, I love my children and I have enough self confidence to know that I can walk away from this marriage with the knowledge that I did everything possible to salvage it. I still love my husband. But this lump in front of the TV isn't the man I married.<p>So paint me as evil if you wish. I know that the A was wrong but I also know that without that A I would probably be dead now. Instead I'm strong now. I no longer lie awake at night wondering what is wrong with ME, wondering why he couldn't love ME, why he chose that damn TV over ME. I know now that there is nothing wrong with me but that the problem is his and it's not only affected me but it's affected our children and I know that it's time to close the book on this marriage. <p>Persecute me if you like. I've walked through flames and over broken glass before I got to this point. I know now that I am a good person, a fantastic mother and I was a good wife until I strayed. He is the one with the problem and I am tired of suffering because of it and I can not, will not do it anymore.

Sorry to intrude J-C, but just out of curiosity, was your H like he is right now before you married him? If not, when did he begin to change?<p>Joe

No intrusion joe. We didn't live together before marriage first of all and so I didn't know whether he did the TV thing when he left me and went home. We never watched TV while we dated. He saw some movies but not enough to lead me to believe that he was obsessed with them. We did the usual dating things, diner, movies, dancing. We spent a lot of time together. When we married I still wasn't aware of his addiction. I knew he stayed up later than I did but he also didn't have to be at work as early as I did. When our first child was born he did the night time feedings because he was already awake watching TV. I suppose my first indications of this TV addiction became apparent when we would be late for things ie teacher conferences, weddings, family reunions and so on, because he HAD to see how a show ended. It started bothering me when out sex life basically stopped because we were on different bedroom schedules. I slept while he watched TV and by the time he came to bed I had already been asleep for hours and he was exhausted from staying up with his TV until 3 or 4 am. <p>When I really saw this as a problem was when I asked him to go for counseling with me. When everything in his life took a back seat to the TV schedule I begged him to get help. We, me and the children, learned not to attempt to talk to him while he watched TV. Anything that was said to him then didn't really penetrate his brain. It got to be that I was handling things alone because he was off in TV land.<p>Sorry I'm so long winded today. When did he begin to change is not easily answered. I would assume he was always like this but when we were dating I didn't notice because the situation wasn't part of our relationship. I hope that makes sense.

So paint me as evil if you wish. I know that the A was wrong but I also know that without that A I would probably be dead now.<p>I don't paint you as evil. I also don't think you would be dead now. I am not here to cruxify you. I am also not here to point fingers. I do wish to say that if your husband was so bad, you should have simply divorced him. That is the key step that so many seemed to have missed. It is what I asked my wife. In here case, she honestly did not want to be without me. I am guessing that, as bad as your husband was/is, there is some reason you did not want to be without him (or perhaps it was that you did not want to be without someone).<p>I assume nothing about the reason you had the affair. If you did actually do it to get even with him, I would have thought you evil. I do state such. I did state that you were lashing out at him and that lashing out would solve nothing. Your husband could be suffering in so many profound ways that he may not even know how to communicate what is going on with him. As others have said, he may have been in some sort of depression for quite some time. I eventually learned that I was in a depression long before I knew of my wife's affair and that the depression made it difficult for me to respond to her.<p>You stated that you needed to feel something. You needed to feel wanted and loved. I told my counselor the exact same thing on Monday. His response was that I should not go seeking such from other people. That I have a lack of esteem and worth in myself that I seek others to fill that hole. I told him that I need to feel that my wife desires me physically and emotionally and that if I did not get it from her, I was afraid that I would get it from someone else.<p>Neither of us should have to get that from anyone. We should be content with ourselves and not canabalize our spouse (my counselor's own words).<p> I know that it's time to close the book on this marriage. <p>That is your choice. Just be sure. Over 80% of people surveyed after divorce state that they wish they had not gotten divorced or that they had tried harder (from www.smartmarriages.com I believe)<p>Persecute me if you like. <p>Again, I have no desire to persecute you.<p>I've walked through flames and over broken glass before I got to this point. <p>Do you honestly think your husband has suffered less? Do you know what is going on in his mind? My wife certainly cannot comprehend what I am feeling over her affair. I wouldn't even want her to.<p>I know now that I am a good person, a fantastic mother and I was a good wife until I strayed. He is the one with the problem and I am tired of suffering because of it and I can not, will not do it anymore.<p>Sorry to say it buy you are still placing blame. Marriage takes two. You may be great at everything you do but I doubt the marriage problems are all his. That just typically is not the case.<p>If you have not already done so (I may have missed it), you may want to visit a counselor just by yourself. No reason to rush into divorce. What is a few more weeks at this point?<p>[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

This is exactly why I think it is possible for him to change...and you as well.<p>We never watched TV while we dated. He saw some movies but not enough to lead me to believe that he was obsessed with them. We did the usual dating things, diner, movies, dancing. We spent a lot of time together. <p>Exactly what my wife and I did. I played no games, she watched marginal amounts of tv.<p>When we married I still wasn't aware of his addiction. <p>We lived together and our addictions started before we were married....<p>I knew he stayed up later than I did but he also didn't have to be at work as early as I did. When our first child was born he did the night time feedings because he was already awake watching TV. I suppose my first indications of this TV addiction became apparent when we would be late for things ie teacher conferences, weddings, family reunions and so on, because he HAD to see how a show ended. It started bothering me when out sex life basically stopped because we were on different bedroom schedules. I slept while he watched TV and by the time he came to bed I had already been asleep for hours and he was exhausted from staying up with his TV until 3 or 4 am. <p>I would play online games until 3 and 4 in the morning and would play 12-16 hours on the weekend. My wife hated the fact that she went to bed without me (almost every single night) and I would stay up playing games or watching tv. Our sex life dropped to once a month, if that. I wanted it when I went to bed, she wanted in the morning or when she went to bed. Neither of us wanted it at the same time so we never had it and we were both frustrated. We both turned to self pleasure.<p>When I really saw this as a problem was when I asked him to go for counseling with me. When everything in his life took a back seat to the TV schedule I begged him to get help. <p>And I asked my wife to go to counseling. She did not want to go.<p>We, me and the children, learned not to attempt to talk to him while he watched TV. Anything that was said to him then didn't really penetrate his brain. It got to be that I was handling things alone because he was off in TV land.<p>My wife could not talk to me while I was playing games. I would get mad if she interupted me and my "character" died. If she did tell me anything, I would never remember it - in one ear, out the other. Such created a lot of frustration for her. I also could not talk to her while her soaps were on. She would get very mad and frustrated if I interupted her. I had to wait until the show was over to talk to her.<p> I hope that makes sense.<p>It makes perfect sense. That is why I don't think it is too late. My wife and lived it and are recovering. My wife even left me for the OM. Moved out, researched lawyers, took off rings, the OM had moved out, taken off rings, had said he would divorce his wife as well. We were still able to recover. You can read about such in my signature.<p>[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

Longing I'm happy that it worked out for you. I think it's fantastic that you and she made it work. I'm not being condescending when I say this but I'm not your wife and he isn't you. He, my H, has absolutely NO intention to stop his addicition to Mistress Toshiba. Last night he said that he can't believe I actually think it's a problem and of course this was said during the commercial because God forbid he should miss even one word of the dialog on West Wing.<p>He called me from work just a few minutes ago and he asked me when we had to meet with our youngest daughters teacher. I said to him that I had told him last night that he was to meet me at the school at 4. He said "sorry I didn't hear you why didn't you wait until after West Wing was over?" My answer, I was asleep then. I then calmly said that we never have time to communicate because he is either at work and can't talk, totally understandable or he's glued to his television. His reply was amazing. He said "why can't you plan these conversations around the shows you know I watch?" I said ok fine when is a good time for you to discuss our marriage falling apart and I am ready to file for divorce. Now brace yourself, he said "What are you talking about? Divorce? Why?" and then he said "can it wait until after E.R. ends tonight?" I very calmly, very silently, very gently hung up the phone.<p>This is NOT a man looking for ways to salvage our marriage. This is clearly a man so deeply involved with his "mistress" that he doesn't even understand how far gone I am. <p>My best friend who knows all the details about my marriage and about the affair asked me something quite interesting. She asked if my affair was what enabled me to stay married even after the affair ended. After much thought I knew she was right. The affair gave me back my self esteem and allowed me to stay in the marriage with the thought that I am worthy and maybe my H would realize it. He didn't.

LOL, I am not laughing at you, I am laughing how so much of what you post is exactly what we went through, yet you have convinced yourself that your situation is somehow unique...<p>Longing I'm happy that it worked out for you. I think it's fantastic that you and she made it work. I'm not being condescending when I say this but I'm not your wife and he isn't you. He, my H, has absolutely NO intention to stop his addicition to Mistress Toshiba. <p>And I had ABSOLUTELY no intention on stopping my addiction to games. In fact, I caught my wife with him in the fall, she lied and me that she was in an emotional affair. I flipped out and tried for a few weeks, all the while, I continued to not only play games, I increased the rate at which I played. I even got a few new games.<p>Last night he said that he can't believe I actually think it's a problem and of course this was said during the commercial because God forbid he should miss even one word of the dialog on West Wing.<p>If you had asked me prior to my wife leaving me for the OM, I would have responded in the same manner. Even after I learned of the affair, I still played a little (I think three times).<p>He said "sorry I didn't hear you why didn't you wait until after West Wing was over?" My answer, I was asleep then. <p>LOL! I said the exact same stuff! "Can you wait a while to talk to me? I have to concentrate on what I am doing." I now realize just how insensitive I was. It did not matter how much my wife complained, I simply did not get it prior to the affair.<p>I then calmly said that we never have time to communicate because he is either at work and can't talk, totally understandable or he's glued to his television. His reply was amazing. He said "why can't you plan these conversations around the shows you know I watch?" <p>Again, all stuff that I had said. "Let me know when you want to talk so I can plan for such - so I can let others know when I will be on." Or, "I am sorry but I already made plans tonight and I can't let the other gamers down."<p>I said ok fine when is a good time for you to discuss our marriage falling apart and I am ready to file for divorce. Now brace yourself, he said "What are you talking about? Divorce? Why?" and then he said "can it wait until after E.R. ends tonight?" I very calmly, very silently, very gently hung up the phone.<p>I can imagine just how much that hurt. When my wife asked me to move out (show she could continue her affair at the time), it hit me out of left field. Her response was, "I can't believe you did not see this coming?!?! Did you just expect me to live this way forever?!?!"<p>This is NOT a man looking for ways to salvage our marriage. This is clearly a man so deeply involved with his "mistress" that he doesn't even understand how far gone I am. <p>EXACTLY. You said it, he does not realize how far gone you are. Nor did I. My wife fell completely out of love with me and I did not even see it; did not even realize it.<p> He didn't. <p>But he may, are you willing to give it time to see? If not, then certainly get a divorce. I get the sense, that regardless of how poor a husband is, that you still care for him.<p>No more replies for me today. Perhaps tonight or tomorrow.

J-C,<p>I, too, cannot believe how much our situations parallel each other, down to the H's TV addiction and my reactive addiction to the computer! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have lived through the same things in taking a back seat to the TV. I can't even count the number of times I tried to lure him away with sex and was told to move out of the way. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So I definitely understand those feelings of rejection.<p>Whenever he was home the TV was on and loudly, too. I couldn't talk to him without raising my voice in some futile effort to be heard. I'd even wait for commercials, too, but he wouldn't even mute those if I was trying to talk to him.<p>I ended up spending time on the computer in support groups trying to deal with the multiple crises in my life that he refused to help me with, and he would just get furious when I'd try to talk with him about any of it to try to work through my distress and grief ("I don't want to hear about it!")<p>Plus he had a double standard. He would accuse me of "spending all day on the computer", but would NEVER admit to his hours in front of the TV. Even when I would use the timer function to PROVE that he spent more time on TV than I did on the computer, he STILL refused to admit it. And he would nag me constantly so the last thing I wanted to do was be around him.<p>Stage all set for an A.<p>HOWEVER, I want to try to throw you a lifeline because things have changed with my Plan A efforts and even more since I reached the end of my rope and tried to Plan B back in January.<p>My H will actually sit in our bedroom and talk to me for an hour or two at a time sometimes. He comes to bed at midnight now (when I go to bed) and spends those early morning hours till 2 or 3 in conversation and SF with me. He actually turns off the TV himself and comes to me!<p>I will join him when he's watching TV and be held, cuddled, and caressed the whole time. I still wish the TV was off more often, but for a lifelong TV addict, the changes of the last couple of months are significant.<p>The way I looked at Plan A was that I had nothing to lose. Yes, I'd already put in more than a decade of trying to get through to him how much I needed to feel like I mattered to him, but if I had lasted that long, then surely I could try Plan A for 6 months. And now here I am almost at the end of that 6 months, and he is actually doing things to show that I am a priority in his life.<p>It sounds like your H is in denial big time. I remember that feeling of being scared to death to face that my H truly did discard me and that all my worst fears were real. Do you think your H would talk to any of the BS here, preferably a male BS? Sometimes that can help break through the denial.<p>I identify with your situation so much, and that is why I want to encourage you to give it one more try. I truly was at the end of my rope back in January (lots of posts from me about how done I was), but I have seen my H do things he has never done before since then.<p>Can you start with something small? How about joining him in his TV world to start with? What do you think would happen if you cuddled up next to him while he was being a couch potato? That is where I started with this particular problem. Kind of reminds me of one of those therapies they do for autistic kids--join them in their world and lead them out.<p>Just an added note: In addition to Toshiba, my H's harem includes five other lovely ladies: TiVo, DishTV, DVD, VCR and Sensurround Home Theater. He has what he calls a "remote boat" (term from "Everybody Loves Raymond") to hold all 6. We're talking hard-core here. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

the same things in taking a back seat to the TV. I can't even count the number of times I tried to lure him away with sex and was told to move out of the way. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So I definitely understand those feelings of rejection.<p>My wife did that too; she would even come visit me naked to kiss my good night on her way to bed, hoping to get me to go with her. It did not work and it made her miserable.