Let me introduce myself. I used to post here under the name of compulsiveliar and most of you know who i am by now. My real name is Genevieve and i am from Singapore. i have had 2 A since and i have been lying all my life for as long as i can remember. Now i am going to come clean with all of you including myself.<p>D-day was early Feb and my H and i have been trying to work this out since he has been here with me, having come home from a business trip to Japan for 4 months, 2 months of that was when the A started and lasted almost 3, up until a week before he got back. The A i had was an emotional one and no reasons i have now will ever justify why i did it. In addition to that news, a little after my H being here, i admitted that there was also a one-night stand when i was on a trip to NY sometime last year, during which my H was in S'pore and i went away. We have gone through many steps that most of you have here, we found this site which has helped us and made many a good friend here too. We went through the whole no contact letter and even made other radical changes in our lives as a consequence of my As. For most of you who have followed our posts will understand the whole story.<p>I have posted many times here before but stopped short a while now. I recently posted that my H found out that i was still lying and i have been. i have been lying to you all as well and i had to get this off my chest. I had my first counselling session last week and i was lying about the recent incident to him too. So i have a problem and a big one at that.<p>Let me shed more light as to what happened and the events following that bcos i have to do this. For my sanity and for my H's too......I have been contacting OM almost every other day since going back to work at the office. i made used of the time alone to make those calls and although i was working things out with my H, when i spoke with OM, i went back into that separate life that i was leading with him. My H found out about the calls bcos he had a PI record all conversations i had with OM and yesterday my H went to listen to them. He heard things being said between OM and me that hurt him terribly, horribly. He also found out that i met with OM once since.<p>I have no good reason for calling OM or for meeting with him that one time bcos no reason is a good reason for doing something so selfish. I was ready to leave this country and spend the rest of my life with my H in his homeland, to leave my job and my family....yet somewhere this little evil serpent said that i should see OM one last time, just one more time. We met for 20 minutes and it was on his birthday. We talked, we said goodbye, but i still kept him on the shelf, leading him on into thinking that there might be some remote chance that we will get back together. I wanted my cake and eat it too. I was selfish. Now i can only think of hurting him bcos of what i see so clearly now....even if it might be a little too late.<p>My H has taken that as the final straw. No more pain, no more hurt, he is protecting himself by leaving me and i know that most of you have read his posts so you know who and what he has had to put up with all this time. Last night was my revelation. Last night was the night when i was jolted back to reality. I read that many WS dont really know the extent of the damage that they have done unto their spouses and i was that person too. I never could see any of his pain or feel any of it. I see him crying, i see him drained, i see his shoulders drooping but i still could not FEEL it....not until last night.<p>My H lost it last night and very rightly so. I know many of you have had anger from discovering an A, so imagine that multiplied by a million. My H blew up, no fighting, just blew up, like a bomb. He said some really nasty things to me, he called me all kinds of names and he said some things that even i would never have thought of.....but it helped. It jolted me back. It made me crawl into that corner and cry. It made me hate myself,made me see who i really was and have been, made me want to kill myself, made me want to jump off a building, slit my wrists....i actually had a knife in my hand. Thats another selfish act, yes, but i felt sick. Sick of myself.<p>I cried for at least a couple of hours. I broke down bcos i knew i had lost him there and then, if not earlier, i knew who i was, who i have been, who i am. he made me see that. I SAW me from his eyes and i SAW what i had done to him. I felt sick, horrible, weak. I could not bear to look at myself in the mirror. I knew that i was a bad person, that i was hurting my H all this time, being selfish and childish and immature. I saw what he has had to put up with, the intensity of his pain, the pain i was giving him by my irresponsibie actions. I felt tha pain, the disease, the horrible things i have done to him. I looked at my H and i could not see anything more than pain and suffering. I drained lifeforce out of him, i crippled him physically and mentally, i paralysed him, i put that light out in his eyes. How can i live with myself knowing that i have caused so much harm.<p>I have written a letter to my H telling him what i feel and what i would like to do from here on. If i lose him, i want him to know that he has made me realise what kind of a person i am and have been...all in one night. I want him to know that i can work through this and that if willing, i will be a better person to him and myself and everyone around me. I need to heal myself and get well and get good counselling and work on being a good person, with no lies, cheating or hurting people anymore.<p>My H has been and will always be my one and only, my only one and without him i will be no one. Maybe its too late to say this, but i am in love with him, i still am and there can be no amount of apologies or words that can take what has been done away. The decision lies within him, whether he goes or stays and as much as i hate to say this, i will have to let him go. He has been through hell and back and no human being should ever go through that. The loss of a loved one, which is how this feels like. <p>IF there is a chance where this works out and he decides to make that leap to working this out together, I will tell him everyday that i love him and that he is the man in my life. That he is still that man i fell in love with those years ago. That he has always been my knight, my best friend, my sex god, my buddy, my sweet man. i will forever be true, honest, loyal to myself and to him and i will make this my committment.<p>Life has to get better than this and only i am in charge of my life...no one else is. I am responsible for my actions and i suffer the consequences. I am also in charge of making it better for myself and my H. I am in control of my life but i am also giving up my life into my H's hands.<p>I expect that many of you who have responded to my previous posts must be disappointed with me for lying to you, myself and my H again. I am sorry. I am sorry to myself, you and my H. I will always be sorry and i will never forget this. I seek forgiveness for my soul. I seek forgiveness from my H and i seek forgiveness from myself bcos i have been 'abusing' myself all these years.
I wish myself a long and good life.... and hopefully i will have my H to share it with me.

I forgot to add that with regards to OM, I have agreed to call OM (in fact it was my idea) with H listening in and tell OM that it was all a joke, a fling. That it meant nothing to me and that its my H and has always been my H and that i love him and will always be in love with him. That what i had with OM meant nothing, that it was fun while it lasted but thats all it was. That i will never want to see or hear from hm again and he can sure to know that i will never contact him ever. That the sex was never good (well it never was to start with) and that he will never be anything more than a mistake on my part. That whenever i think or look at him i can only think of all the bad that has happened since i met him.<p>What do you think? Anyone have any suggestions on what else i should add when i call him? Please understand that even with H listening in, i do feel all those things i said before.

GenevieveM,<p> I forgive you. The lies you told us are not important. Ok, so people gave you advice based on the information you gave them. Some people may be upset by that, understandably. <p> You have the chance now to start over. If not with H, then at least with us here. These people will help you, all they ask in return is honesty, and a willingness to listen. You have taken the first step by coming clean. <p> I am glad that you have finally been touched by your H pain. I want you to know that you have barely scratched the surface of that pain. It is everything you described and so much more. <p> The best advice I can give a WS is simply to quit thinking of only yourself. If you put your WS first in your life you will incapable of hurting him again. Live your life for your spouse and don't just say he is your one and only, but show him in everything you do. This does work both ways. Nobody expects the WS to be the only one doing the work. BS will need to live his life for you as well.<p> Regardless if your M fails. Come back here and learn and grow so the next time this can be avoided. Always put truth and honesty at the forefront of your daily routine. This is a choice you will need to make daily. Do you want to be a lier today? Or do you want to be an honest trustworthy person, capable of being loved?<p> Good luck.<p> jd

GenevieveM ,<p>I don't think calling your OM and telling him those things is a good idea. Why? Because they are lies for the most part.<p>The reality is that you publicly went out with OM and you really didn't care who knew including your H. Strongly suggesting that you did care for OM, that you did enjoy his company, and that you were willing to risk it all to be with him. <p>Further, you continued to contact him and even see him while promising your H that you weren't and wouldn't. Again, suggesting a strong tie and a choice.<p>The lie in all of this is that while you lied to your H by having the affair, you are lieing now by saying it meant nothing. You were willing to risk all for OM.<p>Frankly, GenevieveM, until you address your issues via professional counseling I don't see much hope for you ever having a successful relationship. Given the nature of your H's work, he needs absolute faith in his W. It is a hard life when travel extends for months at a time and you have not shown the ability to be that strong, committed, or dedicated. <p>Until you resolve whatever your issues are internally, all the apologies in the world will not help. <p>I will tell you that I was not surprised that what you posted here was a lie. You stated in your first post you were a liar, so I saw no reason to doubt you. It is an interesting logic issue that you raised. If you were not a liar, then your post was a lie. If you were a liar, then your post was the truth. So it was clear that you were a liar and it wasn't going to change just because your H caught you cheating. <p>It would only change when you decided to address your issues, which you have not done yet.<p>You have done great harm to another human being GenevieveM, and the fact that you thought you loved him makes it worse. My only hope is that you will learn the power you can and do wield to hurt another human being. You have used it and it was effective. Does it make you feel good?<p>I ask this because you are proposing to use that power again on the OM. Now many will say he deserves it, but he didn't make wedding vows you did. Your proposed statements will hurt him and not do your H any good.<p>If you want to end contact with OM, simply tell him that you want no more contact with him, ever. And then stick to that statement.<p>I don't know if your H will come to see the need to try and save this marriage. You have publicly humiliated him, you have lied to him, you have betrayed him in many ways, and you have done it more than once. If there is a chance, it must come from your working on yourself and becoming someone that you are proud of and someone your H could trust. <p>My guess that this will take years. I don't know.<p>I really wish I could tell you how to fix your marriage. I wish I could tell you how to help your H. I wish I could instill in you the desire,the need to be honest with yourself and others. But, I don't know the words. You will have to find those.<p>Your situation, as are many here,is sad. It is clear there is love on both sides. Such a waste.<p>I hope you can find the way to happiness GenevieveM .<p>God Bless,<p>JL

It sounds like you lie when the truth might be easier to tell - and that is part of the symptomology of addiction. I've seen that pattern in your posts under both names - but wasn't certain until this post that this was probably an issue for you. <p>Would you check out the 12 step programs on Sexaholics Anonymous and Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous? Your phone book will direct you to Alcoholics Anonymous and they can let you know if there are these other 12 step formats available.<p>If you truly want to resolve the issues, 12 steps is a great way to work in concert with an IC or MC to resolve the issues.

Gen,<p>Many people will say that you have made the biggest step by admitting that you need help. I think so far, all you have done is say some words; the biggest step will be the next one--getting help, and the one after that, not lying the next time you are tempted to, and the one after that, whe you go a day being truthful until one day you are an honest person. I wish you Godspeed on your journey.<p>I am speaking as the BS spouse here. I think it would be wrong, wrong, wrong to inflict that type of pain on OM that you are planning on doing. Don't take your own self-hatred out on anyone else, ever again. I was betrayed by my husband (for 7 years and until he got her pregnant and they had a child--and I still don't wish for her destruction or even her pain. I forgave, I let go, because it let me have my life back.)<p>I think JL is absolutely right. Just call him and tell him no more contact. If you truly used him as you say, he will figure that out on his own. No other explanation is required except possibly that you are going to work on your marriage and you will tell your husband immediately if OM tries to contact you. Besides, cold steely determination does more to keep an unwanted suitor at bay than any amount of hysterical, acidic poisonous words. Cold detachment shows that what might have been there in the past is truly dead and gone.<p>Seek your forgiveness from God first and then go about mending your broken human relationships. God isn't just forgiving and healing. He IS forgiveness and wholeness. When we experience those things, we experience God.<p>I wish you God's own Shalom, his Peace, his Wholeness,<p>MJ

Gen, much of this advice is better than what I gave. I think just telling him no more contact is better than any amount of "I loved my H, then and now, and you didn't really matter..." stuff, in your situation. My situation was different from yours, and that's what I based it on. Also, I told you if someone said something negative, they would be out of line. Well, that's not entirely true. An all-out attack would be out of line. Some helpful criticism is not out of line, and may be the push you need to get over some bumps along the way. That out of the way...<p>I'm glad you posted here. I hope you use the advice these people gave you and keep coming back to learn more. Please take care of you and Harley (the best you can.) Face the Lord, first. He will help you on your way [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Love,<p>Hoping

Hi Gen,<p>I too lied to everyone in the beginning. But, when I told my husband that I wouldn't contact the OM, I didn't. There was never a question in my mind what I wanted. Sure, the truth took a while to come out, but it did. <p>I am going to say something, and I do aplogize if I am being blunt. You are very much like me. It is quite obvious you need professional help.<p>If I were you, I would get my self on an airplane and check myself into a treatment center asap. Whether you stay married or not, your life is going to be like this. One drama to the next. Who wants to live like this????<p>Like I said, there are treatment centers. So, you don't have money, or insurance? Then you get a credit card, take out a loan, cash in your 401K, whatever it takes to take care of you. Aren't you worth it? Isn't your marriage worth it?<p>PJ

I think JL is absolutely right. Just call him and tell him no more contact. If you truly used him as you say, he will figure that out on his own. No other explanation is required except possibly that you are going to work on your marriage and you will tell your husband immediately if OM tries to contact you. Besides, cold steely determination does more to keep an unwanted suitor at bay than any amount of hysterical, acidic poisonous words. Cold detachment shows that what might have been there in the past is truly dead and gone.<p>I would like to clear the air with the issue of calling OM. I understand what you and JL and H4F have suggested and i have discussed it over with my H. We both agree that that would not be how i should do it. Here's why: Everytime i speak with OM, i use a different tone of voice and he knows that when i am that way its bcos my H is not with me. the moment i change my tone, he will think that my H put me up to it or that he is standing behind me or that he is listening in. I have to convince him that none of that is the case and that i called bcos i want to take responsibility for my actions against my H and for hurting him so much for so long.<p>JL, i can see where you are coming from and i sorry to sound defensive but i know what i have done and how much of my life with my H i was willing to risk with the A and with carrying on lying. I know where i have gone wrong and i am truly willing to move ahead and work on getting better. I WANT to say those things to OM bcos i mean them. I want to say those things bcos i feel them, bcos when i think of him now i feel sick, sick of myself and sick of the whole affair. i dont really know how much of what i will say will or wont hurt OM, and i am not saying that i dont care, i am just saying that this is about me and my H and i need closure for us both, if not for myself. My H said that what i plan to say to OM is going to hurt irregardless and he is not sure if i should say those things or not. Well i do want to say them. I dont expect you or anyone who doubt me to believe what i feel or what i say right now. This is to help me and posting here with my thoughts and feelings is helping some.<p>I have just come back from my second counselling session and it was a good session. I was late for the appointment, which 1) showed my H that i wasnt interested and 2) showed me that i truly have a problem bcos i truly was physically tired, even though i know no one can buy that reason. Well i expressed this to my counsellor and told him why i was late and then i went on to telling him that i lied to him last week about not contacting OM and all that has happened since. <p>He is a good counsellor from the couple of times that i have seen him now and last week he told me that he is aware of Dr Harley and his books, although not this site, which i have brought his attention to. He got my H to sit in for the last 10 minutes and we dealt with issues of what i wanted out of this. I am being honest when i say that i want this to work and that i am capable on working on myself. The counsellor also said that i had a lot of work ahead of me and that it will be harder than anything i have ever had to do. He touched on other issues which are personal that i have discussed with my H about as well. I feel a little better about myself and i have to keep it that way, although its hard cos when i look at myself in the mirror i see the horrible person that i have come to discover. I feel sick again.<p>KaylaAndy, i know that the problem i have is not sexual one and that i am not addicted to sex so thanks for your suggestion that i should seek help in that direction, however, i have a psychological problem, its in my head, i am not a sexoholic.
Plainjane, been a while since i have heard from you and i was hoping that perhaps you too could send me emails so that we can chat over other issues away from this site, as i have been doing with someone truly wonderful whom i have met on this site. I will take into consideration checking into a treatment center and i will bring that up to my counsellor the next time i see him. i will need to put a finger on what my real problem is and i will seek help there perhaps. you know whats strange? My H and i were just watching Girl Interrupted last night on TV and it occurred to me that maybe i should be committed to a place like that, a center for people with disorders....hmm...i will have to do more research on that. i am worth it and so is my marriage.<p>Open for more advice and suggestions esp with regards to my calling OM bcos we have decided that today would be the day i do that.<p>GenevieveM

I am glad that you have finally been touched by your H pain. I want you to know that you have barely scratched the surface of that pain. It is everything you described and so much more. <p>The best advice I can give a WS is simply to quit thinking of only yourself. If you put your WS first in your life you will incapable of hurting him again. Live your life for your spouse and don't just say he is your one and only, but show him in everything you do. This does work both ways. Nobody expects the WS to be the only one doing the work. BS will need to live his life for you as well.<p>jdmac1, i wanted to add that i thank you for forgiving me. It sounds good when i know that i am forgiven even though i dont feel any different. But its good to know that there are good people out there. Only one voice to say he has forgiven me is the one important one and it will take him a while yet before he comes close to saying that.<p>I understand that i have only scratched the surface of his pain and that it goes way deeper than that....that is why i have been feeling sick bcos 2 nights ago when we had that incident happen, i felt what i thought was the worst pain i could ever feel and to think that thats only scratching it! So i cannot even begin to imagine how much pain he is going through and how much was lost and gone.<p>i am prepared to do anything i have to show him that i am worth it and that i am capable of change. My counsellor says that i have so much to do and that i have hurt this man and i have lost his faith and trust and that i have to suffer from now on. i will stop thinking of myself and stop being that selfish bi*** that i have always been. I keep hearing my H saying to the counsellor " i feel like an abused wife" over and over in my head....i feel sick

oops. i think i posted one of my threads twice. Sorry.

bumpin for attention

just bumping this up again for advice and attention........

I just skimmed your thread but notice your are living in S'pore. I left in June. Are you American? SACA cousenlors are wonderful caring people. I found debbie to be kind caring & compasiate (sorry for the misspelling).<p>I often felt I had no one to talk to while I was there, and Debbie was my weekly lifeline.

Gen,<p>I'm sorry I'm not up on your situation and didn't follow your threads (under either name), but was struck by your lying. You say you have a problem with this and I was just curious about it all. My H is a habitual liar and I can't figure out why he does it - even little stuff I'll catch him in.<p>Why do you think you lie? How are you doing since starting your counseling with lying? Do you catch yourself now? Do you slip? Do you think you can change or does it seem like it's a huge struggle and sometimes too hard to handle? Have you always lied in your life?<p>Thank you for answering my questions and I wish you and your family all the best!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Just Learning~<p>I would like to give another perspective on your statement and this situation......<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The reality is that you publicly went out with OM and you really didn't care who knew including your H. Strongly suggesting that you did care for OM, that you did enjoy his company, and that you were willing to risk it all to be with him. <p>Further, you continued to contact him and even see him while promising your H that you weren't and wouldn't. Again, suggesting a strong tie and a choice.<p>The lie in all of this is that while you lied to your H by having the affair, you are lieing now by saying it meant nothing. You were willing to risk all for OM. <hr></blockquote><p>I don't dispute what you have posted here..(you are a BS, yes?)......I see this from a different angle. Genevieve didn't necessarily go out with this OM because she CARED about him but because of the feelings she had when she was with him. It wasn't HIM, it was how she FELT.<p>She was willing to risk all because of how she FELT. G is a serial cheater and compulsive liar. Well, I was too (still working some things untold). My main affair lasted for several months. I thought I cared for the OM....but in reality, I didn't care for him at all. I cared about how I felt. I cared about what I was getting out of the relationship. I cared about ME, ME, ME. On d-day, I have VERY MUCH the same realization that Genevieve had....the knowledge that HE (OM) really didn't mean anything to me.....my fantasy did.<p>IMHO, Genevieve was willing to "risk it all" not to be with HIM (OM) but to continue the charade. To continue the fantasy and to continue lying. I think Genevieve was grasping at something OTHER than the OM, I think he was just the vessel. And, as crude as this may sound, it could have been anybody, it just so happens that her OM was willing to put up with the fact that she is a liar and that she is married.<p>The reason I say all of this is because I can relate SO closely to what she is saying. I have a feeling that down the road, if Genevieve can be STRONG and TRUE and not sell out herself, her husband and her marriage (if marriage is still an option), she will realize that this OM was no more than a pawn in her game of happiness and excitement. Another reason I say all of this is because she did have a ONS. That says ALOT to ME of how little this OM truly meant.....(ie, love).....it could have been anyone when she chose to reach out and stray.<p>Just thoughts from someone just like Genevieve.<p>Now, Genevieve, you have alot on your plate. What are you going to do? As was said before, words are not enough. Your husband isn't going to just get over this and give you the benefit of the doubt any longer. You've made a stinkin mess and now you have to be STRONG and STAND UP and WORK and do the right thing.....if what you are saying is true, that you "really do love your husband and he is the only one". Your husband is going through alot (things you can't even fathom) and you are going to have to be ONE STEP in front of him on this. You are going to have to be above reproach. You have continually broken his trust. He's given you another chance and you messed it up. What are you going to do? There is not a whole lot you can say to him. You are going to have to start SHOWING him what you mean and what you feel in EVERYTHING you do. You are going to have to take the high road and be honest NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT because if what you say is true, that is what you will do.<p>I'm, tellin ya, girl, I'm 7 years into rebuilding with my husband. There are some things that I haven't been honest with my husband about. Boy, oh, Boy, do I wish I had realized then what I realize NOW. I would have told him EVERYTHING. Now, after 7 years, it looks as if I'm going to have to dredge all of this back up to the surface because I wasn't a big enough person then. Do I want to do this? NO, I don't. My husband would probably never find out about any of it. But, I realize that I am not being fair to my husband and our relationship if I hold onto these things.<p>G~ you are never going to change until YOU decide to change.<p>selket<p>[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: selket ]</p>

selket,<p>I won't dispute a thing you said. You are very likely right. My guess is that her H is think more like I was. Not good for her, actually neither interpretation is good for her, but she is going to have to deal with it.<p>Oh! for accuracy I am neither BS or WS.<p>You made some very good points and hopefully G will pay attention to what you said. I sure hope she is sincere this time. The problem I see is that her H travels for months at a time, and it is unlikely that he will be able to build up the necessary trust before he has to leave again.<p>I sure hope I am wrong and I sure hope G can find a way to save this. I really prefer happy endings. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>selket, I think yours will be a happy ending once you get things off of your chest as well. My bet is that that blanket forgiveness included all of the things you did. <p>A very nice and timely post selket.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Your post is well written and well meaning, but I fear for your husband after reading the latest. Here's JustLearning's quote, which is an excellent point.<p>The reality is that you publicly went out with OM and you really didn't care who knew including your H. Strongly suggesting that you did care for OM, that you did enjoy his company, and that you were willing to risk it all to be with him.
Further, you continued to contact him and even see him while promising your H that you weren't and wouldn't. Again, suggesting a strong tie and a choice.<p>Your story from your husbands view shows that you carelessly flaunted the affair in his face by being wanton and openly affectionate and sexual with OM where people could see it. You showed the public how little you felt for the man you married when you were with OM so you must have cared about something to do this.
I also think that the emotional attachment you had for OM was deep. You made a choice in your mind every time you were with OM - even recently - that OM and your whims were more important than your husband and his current and future suffering. I am sorry Geneveieve but it puts tears in my eyes for what your H is feeling.
You say you feel his pain now? You may have opened the carton and can smell the foulness and it stinks, right? What you have given your H to deal with in his heart is at least a million times what you are imagining because he is not imagining it he lives it every minute of his life.
You should phone your OM and ask for no contact, a letter is best but in your recent post it is obvious the OM would see through that and know H is behind it. I have to be honest when I say that reading that upset me too; it just isn't right that you take your husbands genuine efforts to forgive you and use it for more conversation and drama between you and OM. That is despicable in my book. I am not passing judgment Geneveieive just adding a bit of reality to your situation.
To suggest saying the things you want to OM is wrong unless it is a way to show OM that H is not there with you or influencing you in that case I say communicate anything to OM that will stop him from thinking you have been coerced into the call. It does sound to me as if you are trying to hurt OM and get your cake again or you are just trying to say things to make your husband feel better which you have been doing on this board for some time; >either way it is not coming from how you actually feel about OM, is it? My advise is that you do the right thing making this call and do not leave a road open that you can travel down in the future.
Your posts show a true understanding of what is happening to you sometimes Genevieve but whether that is true or not only time will tell. My father always tells me that words not turned into actions are useless so save your breathe. If you feel the way you suggest you do then why did it take you this long to motivate your change in behaviour? Could it be only that now your husband is leaving and that otherwise you would still be the same compulsive liar you were first posting here? I know I am being harsh but if you keep posting do not expect everyone here to coddle you because you have issues that frighten us all - even us WS. If your change of heart now is not a direct result of your own self awareness than it is false. You should be changing yourself for you and because you don't want the life you have been leading anymore and not for your husband or to paint a picture. Sincerity and honesty should mean everything to you now.<p>God is with you Geneveieve and you need his help, talk to him now because I don't think your husband will be back or stay long unless you give him very good reasons to trust you again. God can give you the reasons. <p>FallingD<p>God grant me the Serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference.

I just skimmed your thread but notice your are living in S'pore. I left in June. Are you American? SACA cousenlors are wonderful caring people.<p>Sing, i am not American but Singaporean. Portuguese-Chinese, we are called Eurasians here......but thanks for the info about Debbie anyway!<p>Selket said:
Genevieve didn't necessarily go out with this OM because she CARED about him but because of the feelings she had when she was with him. It wasn't HIM, it was how she FELT.<p>She was willing to risk all because of how she FELT. G is a serial cheater and compulsive liar. I thought I cared for the OM....but in reality, I didn't care for him at all. I cared about how I felt. I cared about what I was getting out of the relationship. I cared about ME, ME, ME. On d-day, I have VERY MUCH the same realization that Genevieve had....the knowledge that HE (OM) really didn't mean anything to me.....my fantasy did.<p>Selket, you expressed it all in a few words what i have been trying so hard to express to my H and my counsellor and even to myself! OM never meant anything else than someone whom i was using to fulfill my needs then and what i was getting out of it was all i was concened about...me me me what i want, what i will get out of it, what it would do for me, OM was a vessel and yes, it could have been anybody...which is also something i have said more than once to my H so that he can understand that i didnt feel anything else for OM. My fantasy and living in this separate life/world (which is how i described it) has always been how i have lived since i was a kid, the fantasy of living in fairy tale land, where nothing goes wrong and everyone lived happily ever after. I ran away from everything that was hard to deal with and difficult, i ran away to my fantasy world, my separate life. where i could be in control of everything.<p>He's given you another chance and you messed it up. What are you going to do? There is not a whole lot you can say to him. You are going to have to start SHOWING him what you mean and what you feel in EVERYTHING you do. You are going to have to take the high road and be honest NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT because if what you say is true, that is what you will do.<p>i am taking baby steps and i know its going to be a hard and long road ahead...i am learning to love myself first bcos i realise that i have done nothing but hurt and 'abuse' myself for the longest time, this goes way back since i was a teenager. I need to love myself, to see myself as a good person now and not the bad one whom i have come to realise i am . I want to show my H that i can do this....how? thats where i find it tough and why i am posting here and will post here for as long as i can find advice from anyone who have advice for me with regards to what i have to do to SHOW my H that i know what it is that i have done.....<p>Selket, please can you send me an email at genevieve_monteiro@hotmail.com, my H suggests that it would help me more if we kept in touch outside MB as well.Only if you want to. Its always good to know that i am not alone in this.<p>Free2BMe wrote:
Why do you think you lie? How are you doing since starting your counseling with lying? Do you catch yourself now? Do you slip? Do you think you can change or does it seem like it's a huge struggle and sometimes too hard to handle? Have you always lied in your life?<p>i am sorry that your H is a habitual liar. Its not something that anyone can easily put up with...i know that bcos i am definitely not easy to put up with! I have only had 2 sessions so far and its once a week. So i can only say from 2 sessions that it is helping in some ways only bcos i have not gone that many times. Most of the help i am getting is within myself and knowing that within all this my H is still here, for how long is really up to what i can show him. Like i mentioned before, i am learning to love myself, without being selfish. <p>I have always lied in my life even as a child and was never really caught.....little white lies turned into bigger lies that i could not differentiate between right and wrong....everything i said or did didnt have any weight bcos as long as i got what i wanted, it made no difference who i hurt or what happened in the process. So my lies started having bad repercussions but i still did not see it bcos as long as it got hard for me to deal with, i'd block it out of my mind and move on. My counsellor said that bcos i have always lied, that i was even deceiving and lying to myself at times and didnt know it! i never saw it that way. I think i lie bcos its easier to handle than the truth. Lying came easily for me, like breathing and it comes out of my mouth without any thought. when you ask me something, i will have a ready answer and it could even be half truths sometimes...does that make sense? I was just thinking about some occasions when i used to meet new people and would lie about where i used to go to school and that i spent many years studying overseas when i have never ever done so....<p>I dont know what else to say about WHY i lie except that it always seems easier than telling the truth. I never thought that lying could hurt and i am thinking twice now before i say anything and i am trying to catch myself more now. Its a huge struggle and hard to handle, esp when i never had to deal with my lies, and i am still struggling. I dont think it will just go away, its going to take time and strength. There will be slips and i am not saying this so that it defends your H if he lies to you again, but there will be slips bcos compulsive liars have a knack for blocking things out, my counsellor calls it a "psychological defense", so there may be stuff that you will be asking and he will say he forgot but its just blocked out, blocked out so far that it ends up being forgotten. I KNOW that i can change and that although it would be a tough struggle (which my counsellor also said it would be) that i am going to do this, not only for my sake, but for my H as well and for our future happiness.
I hope that i have answered most of your questions.

It does sound to me as if you are trying to hurt OM and get your cake again or you are just trying to say things to make your husband feel better which you have been doing on this board for some time; >either way it is not coming from how you actually feel about OM, is it?<p>FallingDown234, i am doing no such thing and i not intending to hurt OM anymore than i am intending to end this once and for all. I have led OM on into thinking that he should be holding out for me, thats where the wanting my cake and eating it too came in. The call is something i am doing is not to make my H feel beter cos nothing can, its to SHOW my H that i can do this and that OM truly enver meant anything more to me. Read selket's thread, it will explain how i feel about OM bcos thats exactly it. if i was in love with OM, i would not be doing this and i would have probably moved out and lived with him like many a WS here. <p>If you feel the way you suggest you do then why did it take you this long to motivate your change in behaviour? Could it be only that now your husband is leaving and that otherwise you would still be the same compulsive liar you were first posting here? I know I am being harsh but if you keep posting do not expect everyone here to coddle you because you have issues that frighten us all - even us WS. If your change of heart now is not a direct result of your own self awareness than it is false. You should be changing yourself for you and because you don't want the life you have been leading anymore and not for your husband or to paint a picture. Sincerity and honesty should mean everything to you now.<p>Why did it take so long for me to motivate my change in behaviour? Well, it all happened that one night when my H made me see who i really was and what i have been doing to him. Its taken me this long bcos i have always been a compulsive liar even as a child and i guess my H wanting to leave me was another motivating factor. I would be lying if i say that that didnt motivate me too. Changing something that i have been so comfortable with all these years took a little longer than i thought and harder than i expected...remember, its baby steps and i am taking them.<p>when i post here i sometimes DO expect to be coddled bcos i feel horrible about myself and i feel alone, but i also dont expect everyone to be nice bcos they are, i need honesty from others to learn how to be honest myself. So thanks for your honesty, as blunt as it may have been. I dont mean to frighten you with my issues, but without talking about them or posting here, who else and where else can i go? so i am sorry if it frightens you, you are the first person to tell me that.<p>i am wanting to change bcos of self awareness and its not false. I dont expect you to believe that. This is for ME and its not a selfish thing now is it? Me wanting to change me for me is not selfish right? Its about time i am honest with myself too.