No doubt, affairs hurt the BS on many levels. One level that was particularly hurtful to me was the lack of discretion. <p>Many affairs start at work and there is a lot of opportunity for daily contact. Then there are the contacts in private. But what is with the dating in public? Particularly for those who live in smaller communities.<p>Can anyone help me understand what the WS is thinking about the BS when they choose to go out on public dates w/OP?<p>Enlightened

According to my H, he was not thinking. Does not understand where his head was either. Says just thought I'd never find out.

My x-H did not keep the A a secret from OW #1 and her mother and family. I heard he touted how wonderful OW #2 was and how she was going to get a bucket of money from her suit with Dow-Cornng re: her leaky implants. He was quite excited about that. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My x-H took OW #2 and her kids to the Fair and quite a few other public places. He was not very discrete. <p>Enlightened,<p>I believe after some time in the A (perhaps after it's become a PA), they are so enthrawled with their new "SOUL mate" that they become lazy and careless. I also think at a certin point some may sub-consciously want their spouse to find out so they can escalate it to a separation by having the BS LB through discovery. This also relieves some of their guilt.<p>JMHO ....<p>Jo<p>[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

My WS's and OM's attempts to be secretive were comically lame. I concluded at the time that they were SOOOOOOO eat up with it all, that everything and everybody else on the planet ceased to exist. If it were not for the poor attempts they did make to be discrete, I'd say they weren't trying at all. A child could've done a better job.

Thanks Zorweb. I also heard <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>he was not thinking. Does not understand where his head was either. Says just thought I'd never find out. <hr></blockquote><p>And for the most part, it was unlikely that I would show up at these places while he was there. But then again, others (family/friends/coworkers) could(although I have now learned that not everyone would tell)<p>I believe there is a great deal of thought put in to maintaing the "secret" and setting up the dates, etc. so I questioned him as to the "I wasn't thinking" I believe it was more like "I wasn't thinking about YOU"<p>Jo,<p>My H did become lazy and careless. Not sure if it was so that I would discover though. Seems more like it became more routine for him while my radar was more watchful. I believe my H could have gone on indefinately with status quo, but he did seem relieved when discovery happened.<p>Enlightened

WAT,<p>Just curious. Did she wholeheartedly defend her excuses? I know my H did and I found this very offensive because I not only was he lying, but he was insulting my intelligence by defending the lie.<p>Enlightened

Enlightened,<p>Most of my H's affair activity was done while he was away on travel. Some of the internet and phone stuff was done either while I was home (in bed) or while I was at work.<p>But his one in-person weekend fling was done in his hometown in Maryland where everyone knows him and me. Sure he rented a hotel, but everyone in that neck of the woods knows what everyone else is doing. It's part of why I have such a hard time dealing with it.<p>Oh well, some day I'll be beyond it I guess.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Enlightened:
<strong>WAT,<p>Just curious. Did she wholeheartedly defend her excuses?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, to an unbelievable extent. And when she was caught in the headlights, she resorted to wholesale denial. For example, on one occasion I deduced that her stated excuse to not go to her one-on-one counseling session was not because she got called into work as she claimed, but because she was picking up OM at the airport on his return from a business trip. OM's W told me the flight # and times and I hightailed it up to the airport and watched her greet him. I did not confront them.<p>Later, I asked her in person (we were not yet separated) how things were at work and when should I re-schedule her counselor appt. She described that everything was fine and I could re-schedule her appt. during the next week:<p>Me: Oh, you DID go to work?<p>Her: Yes.<p>Me: Oh, you mean after you went to the airport?<p>Her: What?<p>Me: I saw you meet <OM> at BWI.<p>Her: What are you talking about?<p>Me: You mean that wasn't you I saw with <OM>?<p>Her: NO! It didn't happen!<p>Me: You mean you didn't meet <OM> at gate C-24, arriving on USAir flight <####> at 8:40 from Pittsburgh and you didn't walk with him to the baggage claim, pausing at the bottom of the escalator to hug and kiss?<p>Her: (looking me straight in the eye) NO!!! IT DIDN"T HAPPEN!! <p>WAT

Dave ... that's unbelievable .... but believable, yanno what I mean???<p>Gosh .... did her face turn red, or was she figgity ... any signs of nervousness?<p>Jo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Gosh .... did her face turn red, or was she figgity ... any signs of nervousness?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No, none. Her mood was of total and complete defiance.<p>I've posted this story several times in the past, but to complete the scene here, the next day she stole the video tape out of my camcorder, thinking I took videos of them in the airport. (I will not state here whether this was true or not.) I confronted her about this and she denied any involvement, recommending I ask the au pair about it. Later, while she was out of the house, I tore this place apart looking for that tape. Finally, I found it in the kitchen trash can - laying in plain view.<p>I could go on and on with more stories. She has never admitted any wrongdoing. Now, who wants to argue that the alien abduction theory is absurd? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WAT

In my case, WS has concluded that OM is so right, so perfect and makes her so complete, that our M (14 years) was a sham! So, she can justify going out in public with him, lunch, breakfast, shopping , and it is ok, because after all, they are made for each other and plan on spending the rest of thier lives together.<p>The funny thing (not haha funny, just pathetic funny) is that they have to go to the other side of the city to do this. And, she wont bring him to the house (he's the neighbor, why not) because she doesnt want the other neighbors to judge! And, she wont bring him to meet any family because she is afraid they wont accept him.<p>So, I dont think the WS is thinking about the BS at all when they go out on thier dates, heck, they aint even thinking, they are just on cruise control.

My H claimed no one at work knew, that they were very careful to "keep it professional" at work.<p>Shortly thereafter, on a different subject regarding his and OW's workplace, he stated, "Nobody can keep a secret at that place".<p>He no longer works there, but still goes there once a week for sports competition purposes and now takes me with him. When I'm there, I assume everyone there knows I'm a cuckold.<p>My H and his OW also met at parks and at least once did it in the car at a park. He was so out of touch with my and the children's lives at that time he had no idea that the children and I had been involved in activities at parks all over town and could have run into him and his shenanigans at any time.<p>I call it shamelessness.<p>Dave, your airport story is a classic, and if it weren't for the tragedy of it, it would be hilarious. Seems like I read somewhere that in one case, the W found the H in their bed with the OW, and he tried to convince her she was hallucinating. When it's like that, all you can do is shake your head, shrug your shoulders, and walk away, accepting that they are totally out to lunch.<p>[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

WAT,<p>UNBELIEVABLE!!! That they go that far to defend the lie.<p>loveherstill,<p>"Cruise Control" is a good definition. My problem is that they can so easily "shift" to cruise where suddenly the BS and family are so insignificant in their world.<p>Conqueror,<p>Initially I was very "paranoid" about who knew. I'm talking that "has he been seen here before with her" or "do they think I'm the OW" when we went to new places together. <p>I suppose that speaks to the (unnecessary)humiliation that goes with affairs.<p>Zorweb,<p>I think my issue with getting past this aspect is the fact that my H was so shameless so suddenly. I'm beyond the "do they know", but still struggle with the "how could he" <p>When my H did answer, he often said "she pressured me" which may be true because if I was an OW, I wouldn't care to be the "secret" for very long. BUT, my problem is, how could HE let himself be "pressured" into doing something so outwardly disrespectful to me.<p>I guess I just can't get my head around dating while married. Sigh.<p>Enlightened

Enlightened,<p>The way I deal with the cuckold feeling at that place is I put on my very best social butterfly shine and treat everyone there as if I'm their best friend. I've always been that way in social situations anyway because I'm a people person, but I'm mindful to keep it turned way up.<p>People there are so relaxed around me that it's gotten to the point where they tell me all about their lives and ask my advice. And every week it seems there's someone new joining in the conversation at my table.<p>Not only do I chat pleasantly with those working there during that shift, but lots of the others I interact with are employees, too, who happen to be there competing or just hanging out.<p>I try to remember that the A is my H's shame to bear, that I have nothing to be ashamed of or be embarrassed about, and I project that attitude.<p>If any of the people I have met there and spent time with know about my H's A, I imagine their thoughts to be along this line, "What on earth was he thinking? How could he do something like that when he has such a fun, caring, sweet wife? He must be NUTS to have risked losing her for someone like [OW]!" Who knows, but that's what I imagine them to be thinking. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't know if OW still works there or if she works that shift, but to my knowledge (never met her) I haven't run into her yet. If I did though, I imagine I'd treat her the exact same way as everyone else and let her be the one to squirm. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Conqueror, you are a bigger woman than I am!! My WH did not "date" in public, but he flirted with the OW on the job and in front of his male co-workers just like they were both single high school kids!! I still can't believe that someone didn't say something to me. After all they were supposed to be my friends too. At least to a degree. Here's what I figure:<p>1. In the beginning, my husband didn't realize what he was starting, (or allowing to start). It was a gradual process, therefore to his co-workers it was gradual too. So where does the line get crossed? Who's to make that call? If both people seem to be OK with it, where is it the business of a co-worker to step in? One of his co-workers did tell WH that he felt they were getting to close (WH and OW), but by then WH was so far into the fog that he brushed it off.
2. Some of WH's coworkers were getting a kick out of watching the flirting, therefore they had no desire to stop it. Those who felt like it was wrong probably walked away and chose to ignore it.
3. Now that he's straightened things out and doesn't flirt with her anymore, (the co-workers don't know about the kissing and fondling that took place right before WH broke it off) I think the co-workers are somewhat relieved that nothing more came of it.<p>So when I go out to his work (and she is there) I begin by devoting my total attention to my hubby. After all he did dump her to stay with me. I can't help rubbing it in her face a little. Then as the others begin chatting with me I turn on Mrs. Personality. I ignore her as much as possible. (I can't help it, I'd like to punch her lights out). It's comical because she wants to be the center of their attention so much, and when I'm there, they pay me so much attention that she usually ends up sitting very quietly. Hubby loves it too because he can't stand to see her antics anymore either. I kind of figure that these fellows are trying to apologize to me by being extra friendly to me now.<p>Just my take on things.

I don't like that either, the lack of discretion, the total lack of concern for your feelings. I remember before I knew I was married to such a louse, I used to know of people at work who were unfaithful and I lost so much respect for them because it was so obvious. we could work together and talk about work things, but I just didn't want to be friendly with them. What disgusted me was how eventually the office staff referred to and treated the OW or OM in the office as if THEY were the spouse. <p>I used to feel embarassed to see the actual spouse come to visit, and I would have mixed feelings of "he/she is so stupid" or that "poor naive thing".<p>That only adds to the pain when everyone knows about what your spouse has been doing. Somehow we want people to think that we are number one in our mate's eyes and it's a personal affront for the world to know otherwise. Then in the back of your mind you're wondering what others think of you for staying, when that should be the least of your concerns.

Jamup, <p>I have the advantage that the OW and I have never met, but I have a physical description of her from my H, plus the employees usually wear nametags there, so if I ran into her, I think I would know it was her, but I doubt she'd know who I was. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] And even if she did, I could act like I don't know who she is and just be as sweet as sugar. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Your trips to the office remind me of when my ex-H had an A with one of his employees, and I went down there to his office every chance I could on every excuse I could to make both of them squirm. During my D, one of the other employees told me they used to just LOVE it when I came in like that with the kids and all. She said they were cheering for me all the way. They couldn't stand the OW, not only because of her sluthood, but also because of the special treatment she got and the things she got away with work-wise.

Conqueror, I think these men realize that it could have just as easily been one of them in this predicament as it was my H. Seeing our marriage win would be similar to seeing their own marriage win. Some of them have probably been in a similar predicament at some point too. Seeing her lose may remind them of a victory they won one time. Also most of these guys are good Christian people. Even though lust and fun and sin may tantalize and distract them sometimes too (happens to all of us) they don't want wrong to win over right. And I think seeing me forgive him, gives them an excuse to forgive him too. They've worked with him for a long time. I believe they will be loyal to he and I over her. She's only been there a short while and is already causing trouble. Hopefully she won't ruin one of their families (I'm sure they are hoping this too). I think that's part of the reason they are being so friendly to me. Maybe to help keep her in line. Their way of telling her to back off, that they like me and want my marriage to work over her getting her sexual fantasies fulfilled. It may be their way of saying "in your face" to her too. I don't know, but it's been weird.
When I first found out, and went to see him at lunch, she was so friendly and innocent. Then when it became obvious that he wasn't coming back to her and that he was up to his eyeballs in me, she's suddenly become very sullen around me. (ooh, poor baby). She doesn't speak at all now. She used to watch us to see what we were doing, saying etc. Now she turns her back on us. HEE HEE, I guess seeing us over on the couch nuzzling is a huge LB for her. AWW drat!

Thanks to all for your responses.<p>Conqueror, you said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I try to remember that the A is my H's shame to bear, that I have nothing to be ashamed of or be embarrassed about, and I project that attitude.
<hr></blockquote><p>This is what ultimately helped me to deal with the humiliation. The people that mattered most to me(family and friends) knew and were very supportive in this regard.<p>jamup,<p>I think you're right that sometimes others kinda cheer them on. I suppose it's "safe" for them since they aren't risking anything. But then the "game" goes to far and people get hurt...<p>NancyCarl, you said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Somehow we want people to think that we are number one in our mate's eyes and it's a personal affront for the world to know otherwise. Then in the back of your mind you're wondering what others think of you for staying, when that should be the least of your concerns. <hr></blockquote><p>And that's the part I hate...that I ever even wondered what people thought. Never concerned me until after affair. Again, thankfully, the support from my family and friends that helped me to get past this and didn't question my reason for staying. <p>Enlightened

My H kept the secret from everyone. He met OW at work, but she got fired before the A started. No one he worked with even knew that we were ever separated. His best friend since junior high asked him flat out if he was having an A and he totally denied it. Pretty much the only places he went in public with OW were sleazy bars and I'm sure he figured there was no chance of running into anyone he or I knew. I just can't imagine being the kind of woman who would have a man "living with" me but yet denying to everyone that she even existed.
I think as far as the lack of discretion many WS show - the bottom line is that most of them think that they are so smart and invincible that they will never get caught. They are very cuaght up in their ego trip. My H (who has a master's degree) still has no idea how I knew that he was talking to the OW. I wouldn't tell him and apparently he forgot that you can press redial on a phone. I think he thinks that I know secret voodoo magic lol.<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>