Hi Debhere:<p>I completely understand what you are saying about dating. I was telling my friend last night about how I could easily be drawn into the wrong thing right now because I am so desparate to have a companion. I haven't found any dates, but I am going out (casually) with some male friends of mine. I have had one person in particular say he was attracted to me and I am attracted to him and that was really something that I needed. Just to have someone say they are attracted to me made me feel SO good that no matter what happens, I'll be okay. I used to think if my H didn't want me, who would. Now I realize I shouldn't feel that way. <p>You are also right that I have proof that my H is seeing the OW again. But how would he go from having severe anxiety attacks last week from not seeing her, to all of a sudden being okay? It just seems to me that he must be talking to her again. I know I may just be seeing more than there really is, but it does make me wonder.<p>Well, I decided not to go shopping. I am trying not to spend too much money. I just went to my parents and spent some time there. <p>I am just SO confused. Well, thanks for your help. I really appreciate the support.

Well my H was very nice to me when he dropped the kids off last night. He could tell I was a bit down and asked if I was okay. I guess my son also mentioned that I have been a little grouchy lately. I just told him I was having some ups and downs and was just a bit lonely. He was very nice about it. We started to discuss money again and he realized how many expenses we have coming up in the next month (son's braces, son's hockey fees, car insurance, etc.). He got pretty depressed and mentioned maybe he would have to find a part time job. Boy, it was hard for me not to want to help him, but I knew that I couldn't because this whole situation was his decision and he has to live with the consequences. Before he left I asked him if it would be okay to ask for a hug. He came over and gave me a really nice long hug and even a small kiss. This weekend is my weekend with the kids and I have to try and stay busy so he can't come over to just hang out. We will see him tomorrow at our son's hockey game, but Sunday is when he had liked to come over. I think I'll spend the day at my parent's house or something. This is something that is really hard for me because I keep wanting to help him and make him feel more comfortable, but by doing that, I know this could drag on forever. I can't allow him to have his cake and eat it too.

Well, I didn't hear from my H at all yesterday. We saw him briefly today at our S's hockey game, but he wasn't that interested in standing around talking. He said he went out with the guys from work last night. I tried to call him on his cell phone at about 10:15 to tell him someone called for him, but he didn't answer. He told me today it was turned off (but it wasn't. If it is off, it goes right to voicemail, but it rang for quite a while before the voicemail picked up). I just wish I knew what was going on with him. I am so afraid his anti-depressant will kick in and he'll decide he doesn't mind being away from us and does want a divorce. I know there isn't a thing I can do about that, but it scares the heck out of me. Ever since he decided over a week ago that he wasn't going to work on our marriage (as he had said 4 days before that), he has been very withdrawn and not calling much at all. I don't know if that is because he knows how much that hurt me and he doesn't want to do that to me again or what he is thinking. I just wish sometimes I could call him and ask him what he's thinking. If there was just some way I could find out what is going on inside of him. I just hate not knowing what is going to happen in our lives. I am trying to act like a friend to him (which I really am, because I love him), but not talking about us (although I did tell him last Thursday that I do love and miss him when he gave me a hug) or the OW. <p>I have been feeling so depressed this week. I miss him so much. I have even started having dreams at night about going on vacation with people and they leave me and I can't find my way home! I don't need a dream interpretation book to know what that means. <p>Well, thanks for letting me vent. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

H&A,
I'm sorry for not posting lately. My dad has been very ill in the hospital and I have not spent much time on the boards. I do pop in and read to see how you are doing from time to time. Hang in there and be strong for YOURSELF. I do so hope that things will start to turn around for you soon.

Hi WantItBack - I am SO sorry to hear about your father. I hope he will be okay. My dad is supposed to have surgery this week. His carotid artery is 80% blocked. It is scary because one of the risks is that if part of the blockage dislodges during surgery, it could cause a stroke. I have been worrying a lot about that. My kids and I are planning on going to their house more often to help with lawn work. Keeps us busy too! <p>I sure wish I knew what was going on inside my H's head. I have been hearing from him a lot less often lately. After the events of a week ago, it seems he has really withdrawn from me even more. I wish I knew if this was a normal stage and what happens next. When I talk to him I am very nice to him (I mean I still love him so I have actually never been mean or angry at him) and try to be upbeat and sound happy. I was very lonely last night and tried calling him at about 10:30 just to talk, but his cell phone was turned off. That got my head spinning again wondering why it was off, was he with her, what was he doing, etc. It did make me mad too because before he moved out, I told him he needed to be available on his cell phone at all times in case of an emergency with the kids. I have no other way to contact him. He does not have a regular phone, only the cell phone. I keep thinking what if the kids and I were in a car accident or something. He would never know because we wouldn't be able to reach him. I just am feeling so much like an abandoned single mother right now and I don't like it. I was getting upset yesterday while doing the lawn work. I was struggling to carry these big bags of mulch to spread in the gardens thinking how unfair it was that he is sitting in this apartment with nothing to do while I am left with all of this. <p>I have so many great friends that have been there for me through all of this and that has really helped. I am getting involved in activities to keep me busy. I have signed up for two fund raising walks next month and am going to take a dance class. I really am trying to work on me. I want so much to share all these activities with my H, though, but don't know if that will ever be. As much as I don't want to, I have been reading a lot about divorce and what things I should do to prepare (financially and emotionally) in the event that does happen. I am someone who likes to be prepared for anything. I have figured out what I can expect to receive in the way of child support and alimony and how I will need to budget my money. That is such a big concern of mine because I want to be able to keep my house. It makes me mad thinking about something my H said once (before he moved out). I told him my concern of not being able to afford the house if he divorced me and he said well you'll just have to sell it and move to an apartment or something. I thought that was so unfair that he can do this and I would have to lose everything as a result. I have two kids, two dogs and a cat. It would be practically impossible to find an apartment with enough room or one that would even take pets (which would mean I'd have to lose them too). Life just seems so unfair sometimes. I know someday, no matter what the end result, things will look up and get better, but right now they just seem so bleak. <p>Well, thanks for listening. Take care and I hope your father is better soon.

Well, I have an update. My H called and after a little small talk I asked him what was going on with him. He was acting very cold to me and I asked why. He said it was over with us. I asked him if that meant forever and he said yes. He said he doesn't have the same feelings towards me any more. Regarding the cell phone being off, he said he was busy. It is my guess that he is back with the OW and feeling happy about that right now and that is why he suddenly decided it's over with us. I am SO absolutely devastated I can't stand it. That is the first time he has said this to me. Before it was that he didn't know what he wanted. My friends said not to listen to him because he has been so back and forth for a while, but this is probably just another example of that. Even so, it isn't any less devastating to hear. <p>Well, I'm a bit too upset to say much else. I'll write more later. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Hand A In know how disappointed you must feel, and worried about what the future holds. My H started by moving out and then saying he was trying to decide what he wanted. Since he has a new GF who is living with. He has also said he wants a divorce. However I have continued to plan A with a little bit of distance and mystery and slowly he seems to be coming round. Hold in there and do what ever helps you . Jante

Hurt and Afraid,<p>Please do not despair. I am sorry for not writing back on your thread earlier. What your H is doing is classic behavior. If I could tell you what my H said and did to me it would curl your hair. But, he is back home, claims to love me, never stopped loving me.<p>Your H is confused. Please do not listen to everything he says. He does not even know what he wants. When he is with the OW, he may feel happy for a short time, but the guilt and his love for you and the children will eat at him. <p>My H also used to turn off his cell phone or not answer. This was when he lived at home but would be gone for hours at a time. One night he did not come home at all, he was at a hotel with the OW. He got home around 7:00 AM. I also felt the same way, what if there was an accident-how could he be so selfish.<p>You need to concentrate on you and the kids. I know how much you want to speak to him and how lonely you are. But when you want to pick up the phone to call him, do something else. I remember someone saying they kept a rubber band around their wrist and when the urge to contact WS was overwhelming they would pop the rubber band agains their wrist to remind them not to do it.<p>You need to pull back and go to Plan B. Limited contact only because of the children. This will prevent your love bank from going to empty. This is probably the most difficult thing you will do but you will get through this. You might be amazed that you will gain a sense of peace and respite with Plan B. I actually was able to breathe easier and was not constantly worrying about whether he would call or not. I let go and let God step in. When I felt really bad, I would pray out loud to God. Not to bring him home necessarily, but to gain peace.<p>Don't give up on him yet. He loves you and the children. Never lose sight to that.<p>NOMO

Thank you Jante and NOMO. I know my H has been back and forth about what he wants, but this is the first time he actually told me our marriage is over. The only thing he would say before was that he didn't know what he wanted.<p>He dropped by unannounced last night. He said he wanted to talk. He said he was sorry for being so screwed up. He said he knows we had some really good times, but he just doesn't want to go back to that again. Apparently, from what I gathered by his comments, he blames me for our marriage problems which lead to his A. He can't think of anything he did wrong. I told him I absolutely take responsibility for my part of our problems, but I will not take full responsibility because it takes two. All the things he had mentioned that I did wrong, I overcame years ago so that wasn't even an issue any longer. He just said by then it was too late. I was upset and told him that I guess I was the only one here who could forgive people for their mistakes. He cried a little and then said he would leave me alone and left. <p>I do believe I am going to implement Plan B. I really cannot have these conversations with him. I was pleased with myself in that I was able to maintain control during the conversation last night. I was not mean or angry, just straight forward. I am ready to move on now with my life. I tried very, very hard for the past 6 months trying to save my M, but he is really into this A much too deep. Only he can get himself out of it. I have so many friends and am keeping busy with my kids. I do know that I will be okay no matter what. I just cannot allow him to drag me down by his mood swings any longer. I realize now, through the help of my therapist, that I took care of him. He is immature in a lot of ways. This time, though, I cannot take care of him. He needs to learn the hard way about what the reality of life really is. An example of this would be his not keeping tabs on his cell phone usage and running up a $300 bill he can't pay. I did all the financial stuff for the family because he never wanted to. Now he is learning he has to budget his money to pay upcoming bills. Now because of his running into a problem with bills, he wants to take an advance on a credit card to pay those expenses. I don't think he realizes how you can really dig yourself into a big hole, by doing that. But that is something only he can figure out. I really think that someday he may realize our life wasn't so bad after all. I believe, also, that the OW isn't going to want to get involved in all these money troubles either. She apparently wants someone who will wine and dine her and who makes a lot of money. <p>Well, gotta go to work now. Thanks for all responses.

Things aren't going too well. A week or so ago I went out with a guy (we were with a group of people) and my H found out. He asked me and I told him the truth. I told him that when he briefly decided several weeks ago to work on our M and then suddenly decided he didn't want to again, I decided in my mind that was it. He was just way too attached to the OW. I have tried to 7 months to save my M and after that last time of him flip flopping again, I realized that is what my life will be and I don't want that any more. I do go out with someone and had a wonderful time. I did feel really horrible about it, because I still love my H. Well, last night he started acting like my friend and asking me all these questions like he was happy I was moving on. Then he had to tell me he was seeing the OW again (which I already figured). Her H is now gone and she is looking for a new job so they don't have to hide their relationship any longer! Well, that was like he was turning the knife that was in my stomach. I acted real cool about it and fell apart after he left. Well, at 1 a.m. this morning the phone rings. He couldn't sleep thinking about this guy. I was asking me all these questions and why did I do it, etc. The guy is much younger than I am and my H says he doesn't want me hanging out with kids like that any more and I need to hang out with people my own age! He went on to tell me he doesn't want me bringing any guys to the house. Now, remember on Sunday he told me he wanted a divorce, that he didn't need me anymore and we were over! Well his conversation this morning ended up making me feel like I was guilty of something and he had me apologizing for what I did! I just can't believe I got sucked in to his act again. I didn't do anything wrong. He cheated on me, he left me and now wants to divorce me, but he feels he needs to make me feel like I have done something wrong and tell me who I should hang out with. I am so upset. All my friends and family are furious with how he is treating me. This is just not the person I used to know. He acted like my friend to get information and then turns it around to make me look like the bad person. Then at the end of the conversation he told me he didn't think any less of me. Is this a form of emotional abuse, because I am feeling so bad now and have been all day. I was feeling really good about myself before and now I feel terrible. <p>Do you think he wanted to feel I was sitting back waiting for him in case things didn't work out with the OW? I deserve so much more than that. I went through 7 months of his insensitive comments to me, his cheating and lying and I just don't deserve it. I am a good person and have been a loving, faithful wife. It just shocks me how much a person can change. I know he has become this person because of the OW's encouragement. She wants him and is working like crazy on him to make him stay. I just think too much of myself to keep playing his games. I know it may sound like I am quitting too soon, but he has done so much damage and I just don't think we could ever get by all the lies he has told. If he came back I would be forever worrying about whether he was thinking of the OW, or seeing her and that just isn't a healthy relationship.

Dear H&A,<p>Please be very careful. You are in such a vulnerable place right now and it is so easy to enter a new relationship where someone actually finds us attractive and fun to be with. Your H sounds very jealous and insecure with your friend.<p>Whatever your H may be doing with the OW, you are still a married woman. If you truly want to rebuild your relationship, please do not bring another person into the picture.<p>If you feel as if there is no hope left for your marriage, you need to resolve your marriage first before getting involved with someone else. <p>NOMO

Hi NOMO - I understand completely what you are saying. I know the feeling of being desparate for attention. I am not in a position right now to get involved with anyone. I was just out with this guy and a bunch of friends. But, unfortunately, my marriage is over. I tried very hard to make it work, but my H just doesn't want that. I have to admit, I think I am at the point where I don't want it either. He has really done so much damage and I don't believe I could ever trust him again. I believed that I could get by this for almost 7 months, but I don't any more. Maybe some of you think I gave up too soon, but I really have to take care of me. I am a good person and I deserve to be treated so much better than I have been. It took me a while to get to this point, but with a lot of therapy and great friends, this is where I am now. My H made his choice and he will have to live with the consequences. Yes, I still love him, but I love the person he used to be and I truly believe that person is gone. I am trying to look forward and start looking after myself because I haven't done that in a very long time. I like who I am and I know that I tried everything I could to save my M.

h&a, <p>It was when I gave up on my marriage that I had the A. I felt like it didn't matter anymore anyway. My experience was that I was extremely vulnerable then, to the point that I did things completely contrary to my own beliefs. I regret having done so.<p>I am not exactly sure how all the Plan A & B's work, but I would recommend fininshing them before moving on to another person. Have you considered telling your WH that you will have no more to do with him until he finishes with OW. No phone calls or visits or seeing his children. Put a time limit on it and if he continues past that then the only alternative is divorce. A few months might be enough.<p>It may seem like you would be going the extra mile, but wouldn't you want yor children to know that it was their father's decision to leave them? That you did all that was possible to save the marriage. You have done so much already and H has not come around.<p>Just some thoughts.<p>b

Hi b,<p>I can't really make that request of my H because he has already told me he doesn't want to come back to our M ever. He told me on Sunday he doesn't need me any longer and we are completely over. He made that decision on his own. I had always been holding out hope before that, but now it is over. He told me the OW is even looking for a new job so they don't have to hide their relationship any longer. To me that means they are really serious. She has been at her job for around 5 years so I don't believe she would do that unless they had made some types of promises to each other. Therefore, I don't think I have any other alternative but to move on with my life. I really just can't sit around pining for him. I have spoken to my therapist and she believes it is better for my children for me to try and be happy and show them that we'll be okay no matter what their father's decision is. My children are aware that I did everything I could to save our M. I have never hidden the fact that I love their father and wanted so badly to have him come home. My son just last night saw my H storm out of the house making a smart comment at me while I told him I don't want to argue with him. I want things to be amicable because I will always care for him. My kids have been let down too. A couple weeks ago they too thought he was coming home, but now he wants a divorce. He has let them down too. But I just am not going to be put down and used any more. Several people have told me now that I appear to be moving on with my life, it will drive my H crazy because he thought I would be moping around forever for him. He told me the other night he wished I have changed like I have before so that maybe we wouldn't have grown apart. All that means to me is that he is trying to move the guilt to me, rather than taking it himself. <p>I am not getting into any relationships right now because I realize I am too vulnerable and I'm just not ready. But I do have a right to go out if I chose to because we are separated and ready to move on to divorce by my H's choice. It just doesn't do me any good (emotionally or otherwise) to keep hoping. He has made it clear what he wants, and it isn't me. I am trying to keep busy and meet new people. But I can tell you I'm not out searching for a new person in my life. I am just trying to move on and be happy.

h&a,<p>I am sorry that it has worked out this way. My heart breaks when I read your accounts. You have been the strong one throughout this and it sounds as though you have kept the kids in mind from the beginning. <p>I wish there was a formula that is guaranteed success, but I know there isn't one. I guess I would just consider that once he says it is over that you might want to force him to act like it. Perhaps he would reconsider, and if he does, there is a chance. If he doesn't, then you have done all that anyone could expect and more than your WH deserves.<p>I am saddened in reading about your hurt in remembering the pain I caused my W. How could I have been so foolish? Why did I give up on my marriage and seek out the OW? How could I act contrary to my religious convictions? How could I have hurt my W so terribly? <p>I can only tell you what I would hope for if I were still caught in that quagmire. <p>Good luck. I will pray for you,<p>b

When I read your post about your husband's reaction to your "supposed date" with another man, I just had to share something with you. <p>My uncle had a midlife affair about 25 years ago. He and my aunt were divorced and he and the OW were engaged. He even bought the OW an engagement ring. It's funny because my aunt's story is just like so many I read today. Some things just don't change with time. Human nature stays the same!<p>Anyway, one night an old friend (male) wanted to take my aunt out to dinner. She had nothing other than friendship in mind. My uncle found out that she had gone out with another man and completely came unglued. To make a long story short, they remarried not long after that incident and were happily married another twenty years. For some reason, hearing about her with another man cleared the fog pretty quickly. He treated her like a queen until the day he died.<p>Your husband sounds a lot like my uncle right now. If I were you, I wouldn't be around when he calls. Let him wonder what you're doing for a change! At this point, he certainly doesn't deserve explanations or apologies.

ditto to FSB!

Thanks for your responses FSB and b. I am going to try to keep what I am doing a mystery. Next weekend I am going to a party and this guy is going to be there and my H knows it. I can't wait to see how he reacts. <p>One thing I am really nervous about, though, is confrontation with him. I am a big chicken. I think that is part of my problem in our M is that I never stuck up for myself because I was so afraid of how he would react or what he would think. Anyway, I know the OW is very manipulative and I also know she likes the fact that he makes a very good salary. I know these from things my H has said (during several times when he broke it off with her he would tell me a lot about her - why I don't know, but he did). Well, I am very concerned that she will tell him to come and take things from the house without me knowing about it. I consulted a divorce lawyer that I work with and she said I should change the locks, but I have to notify him and tell him that if there is anything he will need from the house, to let me know I we can work something out. I also have to put it in writing. Well, I am a wreck about telling him this. I have to protect myself, but I also want to be friendly and I just don't know how he'll take it. He has privacy in his home, so I should be entitled to have my own privacy. I have no idea why I worry so much about what he thinks because he has given my feelings absolutely no thought for over 6 months. I guess I'm just too nice. I also really want to remain friendly for my children's sake. My son saw his anger last night and I really want to try and avoid that. I plan on giving him the letter about the locks after he drops off the kids on Sunday so I can get him out of the house if his reaction isn't good. I guess I'm nervous too because he is a totally different person than he used to and I just don't know what to expect. <p>Well, please wish me luck. I'll check back and let you know how it goes!