My WH has been home now for 7 weeks. In the beginning the OW was calling all the time and either he would speak to her for a short time or she would leave a VM. They seemed to slow some. On 3/7 they had a business class together which my WH went to right on time (so he would not have to socialize before) and left right after the class ended (again, so he would not have to socialize). After that class she emailed him &#8220;I miss you&#8221;.<p>Each time I found out about any contact, it was because of me asking. The information was never volunteered. After finding out about that email and him telling me that if he ignored them he was sure they would stop again, I decided that I was not going to ask anymore and I haven&#8217;t. So it&#8217;s been almost two weeks that I haven&#8217;t asked and he hasn&#8217;t volunteered.<p>In all this time, he has never said I love you unless I have said it first, even though I have told him repeatedly that I love you&#8217;s, phone calls during the day just to say hi & him acting like he wants to be with me are what I need to help me get over this. He has made the comment many times that he doesn&#8217;t think I will ever get over it, which is what I told him that I feel him doing those things will help me.<p>So, on Monday, I decided that I was no longer going to say I love you first and as I figured, there have been no I love you&#8217;s between us. I&#8217;ve also been lurking here and read the post on having no relationship talks unless he initiates them, and that&#8217;s also what I am trying to follow. It&#8217;s only been a couple of days and I would love to bring stuff up, but I&#8217;m going to bite my tongue.<p>He did ask for a hug this morning, which I gladly gave him, and I&#8217;m being as upbeat as I possibly can.<p>I can&#8217;t get over the feeling that maybe he has seen her again or has talked to her. Since am trying my best not to bring up anything about us or them, I&#8217;ve told myself I can&#8217;t ask. <p>I know I have to give it more time (after all, it&#8217;s only been a couple of days that I haven&#8217;t brought anything up or stopped with the I love you&#8217;s), but I just wanted to get some advice from you all (both WS&#8217;s & BS&#8217;s) to see if you think I&#8217;m doing the right thing. I guess I really just need some reassurance.

SAA covers this issue well. He needs to volunteer that information. He likely thinks he is trying to protect you from feeling hurt. He needs to know that he cannot keep the truth from you - that you can help him with his withdrawal (and you have to honestly be willing to do so).<p>Like any BS, you appear to have a tendancy to not bring up issues that are important to you. Such is a relationship/recovery killer. Whether you realize it or not, you are likely building up resentment and your love for him is dieing a little bit each day.<p>You likely need to share what you want with him in an assertive manner. I was keeping much of what I wanted from my wife secret for fear of pushing her away. When I did finally share it, she said that she had no idea that I had wanted it and she has made great strides to show me the love that I want.<p>We can't expect them to treat us as we want if we keep it a secret. Tell your husband what you want and then don't think less of him/it when he does it because he will then be trying to show you love in the manner you requested. See it for the demonstration of love that it is.

Hi Hurting. First I think Mr. Bunky has made some very good points. You have to let him know what you want/need. Let him know that you understand that he may be trying to save your feelings, but that you really need him to talk to you about these things. Then, when he does share things with you, even if it upsets you, make sure you let him know that you appreciate it. Like BS, we WS need reassurance that we are doing things right too. More important, if it upsets you try something like, although it has upset me I really appreciate your honesty and you being able to come to me and talk like this. It really helps and means a lot to me. He needs to know you are just showing your feelings but that it doesn't mean you are upset or angry with him. It's reality that anything about the affair or OP that gets talked about is going to have an emotional affect on our BS, but if we don't know for sure that it's helping we do resort to think that it's not and would be better off left unsaid. <p>As for the I love you's and such. I have always been one to say it before parting, hanging up the phone, etc. My husband, on the other hand, does sometimes, but not as much as me. We've discussed it and he understands why I do (which is a whole other story - I will tell if you want, but not here), and I understand that he doesn't always because he doesn't want it to come across as routine and just words. I respect his feeling on this in that when he doesn't say it I don't take offense, and he respects mine in the sense that no matter how much I say it he knows it comes from the heart. Take the hug this morning as a good step and embrace the forward motion in your rebuilding. <p>I hope this helps. If there is anything else I can offer, let me know. Take care, and keep up the good work. You are doing great. The two of you just need to talk a little more about these things. However, if and when you do, lay it out from the start that it's not meant as an attack on things that aren't being done, but it's more being used to help the both of you understand things from eachothers view on the topic.<p>Best to you! Take care.

MR BUNKEY & TUTTER13
Thanks for replying. We have done the EN questionnaire, finally got him to sit down and do it Sunday Evening. We did a lot of talking and I again expressed how important it was to me, especially now, to get a phone call now and again during the day just because, to have him say I love you, to have him hold me, etc.
I think I must face the realization that withdrawal is going to take a long time (I know him going to that class and her emailing him again set him back to square 1).
I'm just getting so tired of feeling like I'm the only one trying to rebuild our marriage and all he has to do is feel like he's back home, what more do I want.
I'm on the verge of telling him that I want and deserve a lot more than he is giving, that's what I'm afraid of, that's why I'm going to try to stay away from the relationship talks for a while, that's why I'm going to see if he ever says I love you in the next few days to see if he really is interested on working on this.
I don't want to go back to where we were before the A, but this isn't much better. He's read all the books, I've told him what I need and he has not given it much of an attempt. If he would only give me some kind of encouragement I think I could go on doing what I have been doing.
I'm sorry this is so wordy and confusing, it is just how I'm feeling today.

<<If he would only give me some kind of encouragement I think I could go on doing what I have been doing.>><p>Have you told him this specifically? Know what, my husband didn't realize that I needed once in awhile to have him physically say "you're doing good." It helps us to keep in mind that it's a long road and going to take time, but to know we are headed the right direction. It helps alot, from both sides of the fence.<p>Also, remind him that little things go a long way. Just a couple more ideas to helpy you a long. In any event, know and believe you are doing great. Take care.

I have a couple of questions. I noticed that your husband has left and came back 3 times now. Where did he go when he left and why did he come back?<p>Why or How did it end with the other woman?

TUTTER
I agree that I need to tell him that he's doing good, when he does, but right now, I don't feel he's doing anything. I guess I have to take that back because he did call this afternoon just to say hi and check in. He has a meeting after work, so he won't be home for dinner, but I did tell him to call me on his way home so I could have his tea waiting or him. I plan on thanking him for the phone call tonight and let him know that it really made me feel good. One day at a time, heck, sometimes it feels like one hour at a time.<p>BONNIESEPT
The first time my WH left was before I new about the A. He said that he had to get away and think because he loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore. Had I only known then what I know now. He moved into a motel.
The second time he moved out, OW rented him a house for six months (NOV-APRIL people have gone south for the winter). The lease is in her name, but he paid her for it. He left there the middle of November, but returned after the holidays.
He moved back home this final time because he knew he couldn't continue with life the way it had been, so out of control. The last time he moved out, I became the OW. He was lying to her to see me. He knew he wanted to come back home and really give it his all, but he said he didn't know how to do it (big time stalling). Finally, after our third weekend together where he told her I was gone and he was staying with the kids alone, I couldn't take it anymore. I basically said that this wasn't fair and to sh*t or get off the pot. I really didn't care which way he went, I just needed to get on with my life the way it was going to be.
Plan A is really the best thing that ever happened to me, and I'm still discovering things to do for me that I have neglected for so, so long.
Anyway, he came home the next Tuesdy, unannounced and just asked me to help him unload his things. Said he was home, just left her a note (straight out of SAA book). Unfortunately, him coming home this way did not allow me to set boundries, so we're still working on it all. Sorry this is so wordy and long, hope it makes sense to you.

Exactly! Let him know the good things he does - even if it seems small at the time. As with yourself, the more encouragement and more you're doing a good job, the easier it is to keep doing it. Remember, it's a long hard road and won't happen over night. These things that are needed and have been neglected on both sides have happened over time, and will take time for it all to sink in and resolve. Look at each little step forward as the move it is - in the right direction. Remember what I wrote about my husband and I exchanging I love yous. . . it may not matter that much to him, but he still has to realize that what makes him tick is different from what makes you tick, and that's what needs to be explored. Also, the fact that he sat down and filled out the EN questionaire with you, is a positive thing. Look at the positives, keep them in the back of your mind, because they will help with the negatives. I wish you well, and keep us posted.

Small baby steps, that's what I have to keep telling myself, and I really am starting to belive it. I just think that he wants a quick fix for this and because there isn't I'm afraid that he may just give up. <p>In all this time, I have never tried what I am now, the not bringing up anything about the A or asking any questions about contact. Just going on with our lives. <p>O.k., it's only been since Sunday (4 days and counting), and we are going away on a little family trip this weekend and then he is going on an overnight business trip Tuesday, so I definately will not be bringing anthing up for a while. <p>Do you think it would be o.k. to ask him how he's doing and if there has been any contact Wednesday night when he's home from his trip? It's on my mind every day, and he won't tell me unless I ask.<p>Just thought I'd ask your opinion.

I will start with this - don't ask any questions you may not really want to hear the answer to. In addition, I see nothing wrong with at least asking how he is doing. Maybe even let him know that he matters, and his feelings matter, and that you are there if he wants to talk. As for the contact thing - think if you really want that answer now, then make your decision.<p>Following is something I posted to someone else about the "quick fix" idea.<p>"As for wanting it to just be all done and over with - sure, that's natural. You can't say that you don't have the same feeling inside!? However, you know the reality of that not being able to happen at the flip of a switch. You have the misfortune of having faced the realities of this pain, the magnatude of his deceipt and betrayal - he has yet to do that."<p>I wish you well on your trip. Enjoy the time as a family and make the most of it. Work on the positive, and save exploring the why's and how's for a later date. Take care.

P.S. Check out the post "Looking for Advice. . ." from Maw64. I think some of the things I posted to Maw may be helpful for you as well. Take care. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]