I decided to start a new thread because two other posts spoke so clearly to me, that I wanted to combine what I want to say into a new post.<p>1. Someone asked what pain a WS feels. Although I was not 100 percent sure I was a WS -- you remember my story -- I totally related to the feelings mentioned of feeling guilt and withdrawl and pain.<p>The worst thing is knowing that you brought it on yourself, and you can't truly figure out how it happened. There is no one to talk with to help you find a way out of the pain. Reading the posts from other WS rang so true with me that it helped. The emotional pain of withdrawl is stronger than I ever would have believed. I remember sitting on a couch, overwhelmed with tears, thinking that I so needed this woman in my life. <p>And then you have to go on with the rest of your life -- being a good father and husband and worker, and you carry this emotional baggage whereever you go. One woman on there said it was not worth it. She is so right. What happened to me is that it slipped up on me slowly and before long, I was addicted. This stuff is stronger than booze because it involves your heart and head and body chemistry.<p>If any good comes out of any of this, it is the forced examination of who you are as a person.<p>2. There was another post on here about addiction or reality. I really related to that, too. There is nothing more powerful than the electricity with the OW. It wasn't real, it wasn't healthy, but in that moment nothing else in the world mattered.<p>If someone offers you a chance to have an affair, run. It isn't worth it. Forget, for a moment, the moral implications and the broken trust. Even if no one finds out about it, it is the more destructive form of self-torture out there. You live for the highs, which are wonderful. But then come the lows, which are terrible. Then you wait for the high again. The cycle takes over your life.<p>I am much better than I was a while ago. I have returned to the things in my life that I enjoy -- hobbies, etc and find that I am finding my way back. <p>One final thought -- I think an EA is far, far harder to get over than a PA

Hi MM,<p>Welcome back.<p>Have questions ....<p>At any point in your A, did you feel hurt for your wife? Did you miss her? Did you realize or appreciate that what she was going thru was devistating to her? Did you feel any empathy for her? <p>Jo

I felt bad many times, but the truth is that in your blindness to feed your own addiction you overlook it.<p>I guess it was in stages. At first you are so high with all of it that you are in a great mood all the time. Then when you want to be with the OW or talk with her you are preoccupied and resent having people around because you can't do what you want. This is when you lash out to others, act grouchy. Not because you dont like your spouse, but you feel trapped by the situation. Then comes a moment when you feel bad -- when your spouse hugs you or kisses you --and you realize they are doing nothing wrong and why is there love not enough. Then you feel like an [censored], cruel when that is not your real personality.<p>Any other questoins? I have been down the road and I am finding my way back

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
Then when you want to be with the OW or talk with her you are preoccupied and resent having people around because you can't do what you want. This is when you lash out to others, act grouchy. Not because you dont like your spouse, but you feel trapped by the situation. Then comes a moment when you feel bad -- when your spouse hugs you or kisses you --and you realize they are doing nothing wrong and why is there love not enough. Then you feel like an [censored], cruel when that is not your real personality.<hr></blockquote><p>Makes perfect sense. I just never thought of it in those terms. When my H was cruel to me, I took it personally, felt like rejection and just plain meaness. It was very hard, and almost impossible to understand.<p>There was only one time my x-H had a lucid moment. We were separated, he was on his way home from a counseling session and stopped by our home. Made up some silly excuse to be there. <p>He was crying and I feel he was sincere, he said "I can't believe what I've done to you, I can't even fathom what it must be like to be you and feel the pain you're feeling, it's frightening to me. I've hurt you beyond belief ... I'm so sorry, I would understand if you hated me and wanted to hurt me. I've been wronging you for so long. I am just so sorry."<p>That was the one and ONLY time he, IMHO, was dealing with reality, was taking responsibility and being accountable for his part.<p>Thing is, it was just a few days later, after being under the influence of OW, his whole demeanor changed back to selfish, blaming, hurtful, cheating H. <p>The "I'm Sorrys" seem to lose their meaning knowing he continued with the same offensive behaviors.<p>Jo<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

MM, glad you are back, hope my H reads your posts someday, he had EA like yours, almost carbon copy. Resilient just said it. Her H was "UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF HIS OW". Under the influence, just like alcohol or drugs, just like you said. During that time period logic does not and will not apply. Any time a person is under the influence of, or addicted to anything be it work, money, a person, place, thing, drug, alcohol, food, that person will have behaviors that destroy their life and all the people around them. I agree with you that an EA is harder to recover from than a PA, plus you had physical contact that "friends" do not have. How much longer are you "STUCK" having contact with your DRUG/ALCOHOL/OW?????? It must be very hard to abstain and recover when your DRUG/ALCOHOL/OW is so often IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!When she is gone dont forget that just like ALCOHOLICS, you will have to take special pains, to avoid a relapse, it could happen again at any time, any place if you are not prepared ahead of time. Protect yourself and your wife, also she needs to know you have been ILL so she can help you recover and abstain in the future. OW'S are are dime a dozen, around every corner, protect yourself and your wife from this happening again. I am going to have to talk to my H about how to agree on how he and I interact with people of opposite sex, I am very careful, he is not, very poor judgement like you. Good luck, I will keep reading and learning, you have helped me understand so much!!!! Thankyou, Replaced

The hard part is struggling to stay strong, and part of that for me is asking myself why this OW's frienship/feelings toward me is so important to me.<p>I have some answers, but not the answer. I realize that everytime I give into the feelings, and they are powerful, that it sends me high for the moment, but then makes me crash down again quite low.<p>What I find remarkable in this is why this ONE woman does this to me when she has so many values about work and life that I would not choose if she and I were both free. And yet I am drawn to her like a moth to a flame.<p>I still have to be involved with her professionally for about another month. I have not seen her in person for two weeks, but there have been phone calls regarding the work. I hear her voice and it is seductive -- not that she is being seductive, but it has that kind of power over me.<p>The battle is to keep moving forward. My heart does not ache like it used to. And I have to stay strong so that -- if for some reason -- she came on strong and I plunged right back in. While that would feel great for the moment, it would make it all so much harder to recover.<p>I think the thing that BS might not understand is that for many men it is not the sex at all. It is the feeling of being in love, of flirting, of having a girlfriend, a look in the eye, a touch.<p>In this case, I would have walked away from a woman nude, signaling me to come to bed. And yet I would do anything to talk with her over dinner and hold her hand on the car ride back.

MM, is she anything like your wife?? Does your wife have the same behaviors as OW? Is it something about her that reminds you of your wife? When my H is lonely and scared he has tried to replace me with OW (hence my name). She filled all his needs and then some because I wasnt there to do it, he needed me and I was for reasons beyond my control, unavailable. It hurts bad to be replaced but I understand logically how that can happen, I have tried to let him know that I truly believe it was half her fault for making herself so enticing that no man on earth would have an easy time resisting her subtle way of luring in, keeping him dangling. Very seductive, and there is no way on earth a woman could do this to someone and not be aware of it. Every married womans nightmare is this type of OW. Incidently I think my H is still under the influence on some level and is has been a year and a half. The worst part is he will not share his emotions about this with me at all. It breaks my heart, it is keeping me from being his wife on an intimate level. Replaced

Sounds like you are making good progress. Keep it up. I'm still curious though...was your first affair during this marriage and does your wife know about it? That will shed very essential information on the whole thing, including the current EA.

Are you going to answer this question or run again? I am starting to see a pattern here, your non answers speak to me.

Geez, Maggie: I was gone for the weekend. Give me a break. My life does not revolve around posting replies here.<p>The short answer is that the affair was wih an old high school girlfriend. Strange as it sounds, it help me close a chapter on my life in a good way. <p>I don't regret what happened, neither does she. It ended after a month.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by maggierose:
I'm still curious though ... was your first affair during this marriage and does your wife know about it? That will shed very essential information on the whole thing, including the current EA.<hr></blockquote><p>Hi again MM,<p>Hope your week-end was relaxing.<p>I noticed that you didn't really answer Maggie's question(s). Please see text Bolded above.<p>Thanks,
Jo

During marriage. Wife does not know

The reason I said I saw a pattern is weeks ago when you were asked this, you disappeared and avoided answering. This makes things completely different in MY view. So basically you've had one 'real' affair and one EA during your marriage, neither of which your wife knows about, and you are wondering why you're not happy now!?<p>Wow, I don't envy her and the lies she's been living all these years. You mentioned in your post that the worst part is not having anybody to talk to to figure out what happened. Hello? Have you heard of counseling? Perhaps figuring our what voids these affairs filled that your wife would have probably been more than happy to fill but didn't know about?<p>If you don't address these affairs now, you really don't have much change of having a marriage with true intimacy. It's also much more likely that you will do this again. Something is missing inside of you or within your marriage and you are playing games instead of looking into it.

Maggie:
I do agree with you that something is missing. My first affair was about filling that hole in myself, and strange as it sounds, the affair did just that. I don't regret that it happened.<p>This second one is more troubling because I didnt think I had a hole. But I did. It was fear, and the hole was different than the first one.

It troubles me greatly that you don't regret an affair. It seems to me to say that as long as you're okay with it, too bad for your wife or her possible feelings. I am stating MY opinion of course. Your name mentions seeking advice. What do you want people to tell you? To continue on dreaming about/being with other women? Not get any professional help? Continue lying to your wife? <p>I've been doing this 'recovery' business for 6 years and believe me it's been the hardest time of my life and marriage. But living a lie with a spouse who wouldn't tell the truth or get help for the 'holes' would be worse. Maybe your wife is the one who can help you the most? But perhaps you are afraid of the consequences of your actions. Give her a chance

mm-what do you think?

I am not dreaming about the OW like I used to, and the affair with that happend in the past has to stay there. Strange as it sounds, it helped me in the sense that I was able to close a chapter in my life that was painful. I don't regret doing that.<p>As to this new things, that is more troublesome, but it seems to be dying out and I am EXTREMELY glad that I did not tell my wife. Too much hurt all around if that had happened.

mm~ I've kept up with your story and I have no other advice than what everyone else has said. But as a BS decieved for 2 long years, I want to say.. I THANK GOD YOUR NOT MY HUSBAND!!!! The longer you keep this from her the more pain she will be in. And she WILL find out. Maybe not today, tomorrow or even this year, but she WILL find out. Would you like to know why you dont want tell her?? Of course you dont want to hurt her, but you KNOW DEEP INSIDE YOU ITS WRONG! Keep this site handy, because your wife will be needing the support when she finds out. <p>God be with you and your wife..

Ditto. I think you are only thinking of YOURSELF and the price you will pay. If you don't get help to find out what these 'holes' are and also why you cheated years ago, do you really think it won't happen again?! Highly doubtful.

You know, MM, I guess it's like a train wreck--I just keep looking. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If I knew you face to face, I would be tempted to slap you silly. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am so insulted on behalf of your wife. There is no doubt in my mind that the attitude you display here is transmitted to your W, and she undoubtedly feels how little she is valued by you and probably wishes she knew why. I've tried to be as nice and patient with you as I possibly can, and others have done an even more commendable job of it, but I feel like we have to speak to you on behalf of your wife since YOU DO NOT ALLOW HER TO HAVE A VOICE!!!!!<p>Quit ducking, dodging, pussyfooting around reality! You know exactly why you don't want your W to know who she's married to. You do not fool me.<p>Just in case the elevator ever makes it to the top floor and discovers an insight department up there in your brain, file these questions away for that momentous occasion. THESE are among the questions you should be asking yourself:<p>

• What did you like about yourself in those affairs?
• How were you different?
• Of the way that you were in those affairs, what would you like to bring back so that you can be the person you want to be in your marriage?
• How can you foster that part of you in your marriage?
• If you gave your W everything you gave the OW and were the person with her that you were with the OW, how do you think that would impact your marriage?
• What parts of yourself that you experienced in the affairs have you not freed yourself to express in your marriage?

<p>--Adapted from "Shattered Vows" by Shirley Glass, an article from Psychology Today, which I saw mentioned on another thread; entire article can be accessed from www.findarticles.com<p>I hope this will be the last time I feel the need to tell you this: Give your W the gift of REALITY. Doesn't she deserve at least that much from you? How little you must think of her if you don't. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Try being selfless for a change.<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>