Haven't posted an update lately, so here goes.<p>The last time I posted, I believe that W had decided to end things with OM, and "explore our relationship, otherwise what kind of a woman would (she) be." She had asked for some space so that she could work on getting over him.<p>We have seen each other sporadically, sometimes good, sometimes bad. I know she was hurting terribly, and I SOOOOO wanted to do something to help: but couldn't.<p>Well, this weekend she came over and again was at the point of wanting a divorce....pretty big fight involved. Later, I asked her back over because I had some things to say (calmly, this time). Basically, I wanted to know what had changed since the time earlier last week when she had called to set up a date. I asked her what it's all about; is she scared? is she afraid of losing him? is she afraid that she'll be left with nobody if we don't work? is she afraid of "owning up" to her responsibility? WHAT?<p>She STILL maintains that it's not about him, but then a short time later, she said that she'd called him after our AM fight and told him she loves him. She also admitted that she's afraid that if she tries with us and we don't work out, she'll have thrown THEM away. I'm not quite sure how this could be any MORE about him.<p>SOOOO, long story short. I've reached the end of my rope (I guess). It's just TOO painful to constantly see her go back and forth. I've done absolutely everything that I can do to save our marriage. I told her that I need a partner in trying to put things back together. I told her that I'm very tired of putting all my needs on hold and just waiting around for her. I told her that I don't can't see her any more until she's either ready to save our marriage, or she has a lawyer serve me.<p>I'm going to try to put it all down on paper so that there aren't any misunderstandings about my intentions. I truly don't want her to think this is to hurt her or pressure her, it's about protecting myself. I still love her, and I still want our marriage to work- our vows are the most important thing on this Earth to me. <p>Speaking of which, I need to meet with our pastor to try to get some guidance on that. W says that she believes becuase we both violated our vows, we're no longer obligated to live by them; I disagree. I think that we've both made some terrible mistakes, but with grace, we can both ask for and give forgivness, and reaffirm our vows.<p>You all take care, and please pray for us.<p>Kevin

Kevco,
I'm sorry. You know if she's still in contact with the OM she can't judge if the way she feels is or isn't about him. She's likely fooling herself, or lying to you or both.<p>Is it PlanB you are thinking of? Giving her time to realize that if she's isn't throwing away "them" she is throwing away "you"? <p>As I think of vows, violating them does not make them invalid. The vows were still made and this falls under "better or worse" even "In sickness & in health". Post what your pastor says.<p>My H & I redid our vows, privately. A little duct tape & superglue...can fix up most anything that is broken [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .

Kev,
Thanks for the update.<p>I know it has to still be very painful, but it sounds like you are coping well, considering.
It seems to me you are taking the right approach and I agree with what Lor said --- Sounds to me that your W is still in the fog, but you have done your bestn & you do a good job in expressing yourself and letting her know where you are coming from. I like the idea of the letter.
This reminds of the Dobson (Love must be tough book) thing -- doesn't mean it is over! She just needs a jolt of reality perhaps. With this in mind, what about looking into a do-it yourself Divorce kit, and you take the intiative of serving papers or at least preliminary settlement proposal -- if there is no argument in property settlement I bet the D thing would be real easy & inexpensive. Not that you actually finalize at this time, but just giving her a very direct, specific, sincere message that if she is not coming around, you are capable & willing to end it. A lot easier said than done of course!
Like Dobson says, "Let the Tiger out of the cage." As far as definition of the wedding vows -- sounds rather convenient for her and her conscience to me!

Best of Luck!
HH

Hi Kevin, Your story is all too familiar with me. I could of written most of it. Maybe it is time for Plan B, although you need to decide this. A good dose of reality may help her to get out of the fog.. If your WS is anthing like my STBXW,
then she will view Plan B as yet another way of you trying to control her and justify the A but give it some time... unfortunately for us, I ran out of time, I could not take the pain any longer.
I wish I had moved to Plan B sooner than I did, I know Plan B is a last resort but it is powerful.
I know the pain you are in, hang in there, it will get better either way.
Take care,
Dave

Hey Kevco - <p>I'm not sure I've posted to you before, but I've been watching your story. I consider you one of my 'Board Brothers' here.<p>I'm also so sorry for your pain. In my case it took 2 days from Plan B and moving out to shake my W into action. Maybe your W needs a dose of 'no Kevco', true no contact. If that happens you will start to feel better and more ready to handle whatever happens.<p>You have been one of the strongest guys here. Be proud of that strength and the effort you have made. Keep the chin high man!!<p>Gib<p>[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Gibby1 ]</p>

Hey kevco,
I agree with YOU on the vows... It's almost like each and every day when we wake up... We don't decide to go out and sin (miss the mark). We don't plan how we can fail God, right? Same with our marriage vows. God is forgiving and we should be like Him.<p>I also agree that it is a good idea to sort out your thoughts on paper and carefully weigh everything. Keeps the old emotions in check. (I should follow my own advice! Lord knows I need to THINK before I ever SPEAK!!) God bless you!<p>I'm glad you posted this update. But not glad that you are still going through all this trauma. Hang on to God's unchanging Word. He will get you through.<p>[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

All,<p>Thank you VERY much for your comments. You've really put words to my feelings on my vows and potential forgiveness for failing in them.<p>It really does help to have a little support now and then.<p>I have a meeting with our pastor on Thursday, I'll let you know what comes of that.<p>Thanks again,
Kevin

Good luck with the pastor [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Kev,
I hope that you realize how much you have accomplished, even though you haven't met your ultimate goal. You have come SO far in your relationship with yourself and you sound content, for lack of a better word. You have done a lot of personal growth and discovery and I hope you see the positive that has come out of this...
I am sorry to hear this news. I do think that you are doing the right thing. Who knows what will happen now, only time will tell. I know that my feelings for Bill came back in a big way when I realized that I was about to lose him forever.<p>We will continue to pray for you BOTH,

Just curious...what was you pastors point of view?

Kevco,
Sorry things are so bad. I think planB is for you.Remember PlanB is to save any warm feelings you have left for your W from being totally destroyed. Maybe you could tell her in a kind way that you can no longer talk/see her to save any nice feelings from being destroyed.
Also a word of caution, as much fence sitting as she has done,dont fall for it if she changes her mind right away.Give it time to make sure she is done with A.
I also respect what you have been through and want you to know you have been a beacon for a lot of guys here.
Keep looking up the triangle (you did say that right?).

Ok, about the pastor.... Basically, I had three questions for him:<p>1) Are our vows dead and buried? Are they even worth restoring? He talked a lot about Covenant, about Israel and their continual breaking of their Covenant with God- but through His grace, it's been continually renewed. He said that a Covenant cannot be voided, only violated. He suggested that absolutely it's right and good to try to restore it.<p>2) Which affair was worse. Pretty much, he told me to get over myself. He agreed that in MAN'S eyes, actions speak louder than thoughts...but in GOD'S eyes, they're the same. So, even though I didn't have sex during my A, I thought about it and it's just as bad. He suggested that rather than the two of us trying to figure out who's been the more wrong, maybe we should spend our energy trying to find out how we repair our marriage ....makes sense, and I'm more than a little ashamed to have been playing those games.<p>3) How long should I be expected to wait? He pointed me to the book of Hosea in the Old Testament. Basically, Hosea's wife was a prostitute, but God told him to love her as He loves Israel (in spite of the continual breaking of the respective Covenants). That's a tough one, I don't know if I've got it in me.<p>I don't mean to sound like the preachy type, I really know very little about religion and am just trying to learn and live by it.<p>***************<p>I have one request for you all. Please say a special prayer for W and for her dad. There're some life threatening illnesses looming over his head right now, not at all what W needs. She's REALLY broken up right now, and doesn't know where to turn.<p>Thank you all so much!
Kevin

Thanks for sharing with us :<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ok, about the pastor.... Basically, I had three questions for him:
1) Are our vows dead and buried? Are they even worth restoring? He talked a lot about Covenant, about Israel and their continual breaking of their Covenant with God- but through His grace, it's been continually renewed. He said that a Covenant cannot be voided, only violated. He suggested that absolutely it's right and good to try to restore it.<p>2) Which affair was worse. Pretty much, he told me to get over myself. He agreed that in MAN'S eyes, actions speak louder than thoughts...but in GOD'S eyes, they're the same. So, even though I didn't have sex during my A, I thought about it and it's just as bad. He suggested that rather than the two of us trying to figure out who's been the more wrong, maybe we should spend our energy trying to find out how we repair our marriage ....makes sense, and I'm more than a little ashamed to have been playing those games.<p>3) How long should I be expected to wait? He pointed me to the book of Hosea in the Old Testament. Basically, Hosea's wife was a prostitute, but God told him to love her as He loves Israel (in spite of the continual breaking of the respective Covenants). That's a tough one, I don't know if I've got it in me.
<hr></blockquote><p>I think those are some great thoughts from your pastor [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I agree, number 3 is a tough one. I also try to look at it this way. As many times as we screw up, God always forgives us and loves us, and we should try to do the same. How many times are we to forgive our brother, 7 times? No 70 times 7. <p>Tough one, when we're in a situation like ours. I don't know the answer. We all have to find that one on our own. <p>I know that you have a lot to give - a lot to offer - an deserve a fulfilling marriage. I also believe God allows us to divorce when there is adultery. He doesn't COMMAND us to, which is why we try to forgive and restore. But it is allowed, and I believe re-marriage is ok too. <p>Many of us MB'ers believe that we should not initiate divorce. We Plan A and Plan B until the A dies, and make EVERY effort to restore the marriage. SURELY, there's a point some people reach where the WS won't make a decision, and the BS must file.<p>Not sure if you have it in you? Whenever I think about that, I think, well, getting to know someone new, learning about them, developing a relationship, and possibly marriage... then you are likely to run across the same challenges in the marriage as you did the first time... soooo.... isn't it worth it to wait out the storm for the person you have invested all this time into, and gotten to know so well? Do you have it in you to wait the storm a little while? Would 2 years out of your life be worth it to ride the storm if you and your W could reconcile and have a WONDERFUL marriage?<p>sorry for rambling... just some thoughts.