Thanks Orchid, yes I will try. Not easy in the depressed state and pain I am in. Good to hear you have a H and child to make dinner for. That is part of a mother, giving, and enjoying family. This is so hard to deal with, my life is a big mess, no job, injury now to arm and back, and basically a worthless individual to any employer, but good to have kids to work with and enjoy being here with them. Talking to steve harley today, probably last time. Then talking to the professional hopefully next week. Might try to find a different professional, someone that I can set up a regular time, and have many visits in the beginning. Yes, I am trying to work on myself, losing weight again, just can't eat, and after yesterday, intestional track really out of whack. Boy life really sucks, and I feel I am going down really fast. Told his mother, and the police yesterday. Told them I have respected the issue of not coming over, and it has not been reciprocated. <p>Thanks for listening and responding. Will post here to keep myself in some sort of sane mind. Just need help and comfort, and guidance. Can't seem to focus on anything right now. So tense and shaking. I know this is caused by the stress, and issues. Trying to relax, but couldn't sleep again last night. Maybe tonight will drink a bottle of wine, have one in the cupboard. Might do that and stay in bed all day tomorrow. Bye for now.

Let me get this straight...this is the SAME SNL who preaches radical honesty to the rest of us???

You asked what you should do. I will offer my opinion. File for seperation. SNL obviously does not feel the consequences of his actions.<p>Leave him and rebuild your life stronger and better without him. Stop letting him have some much control over you and your life. If he changes his ways, the two of you can then discuss how he can be let back into your life.<p>SNL is very prideful, dispite his false modesty. He may not be willing to overcome his pride and humble himself before you and God.<p>You have to make this choice. How much more are you willing to put up with? Doing what you are doing is not working -- it is not helping you to save your marriage. If what you are doing does not work, do something else.

great advice here Thinker. step back and take a deep breath. You can survive this. Let it go. He's not going to change - he's not going to make things better. Make a life for yourself. It doens't matter whose fault what is... doesn't matter if you blame him or not... you are in a situation. How are you going to get out of it? We can't do it for you. snl can't. Steve Harley can't. How are YOU going to be ok? Step up to the plate, and make a plan for yourself.

Dear Thinker,<p>One more time......stay off of the other thread. If SNL posts there, leave him be. WE can see what he is saying. If he wants to paint the sky pink, let him. If he says white is black and black is white, let him. We will formulate our own opinions. Don't worry, there are many qualified' BS' out here. <p>Well watch out for him. K? Right now you need to simmer down a bit and breathe. Refocus your anger into something more constructive. You have children who really need you right now. Their dad has abandoned them and they need to know how to help you help them and visa versa. K? <p>My offer still stands. e-mail me as needed. You gotta stay away and let SNL have his say out there. Don't follow his posts around. You can post but please post about how Thinker will get better, ask for suggestions on helping thinker. <p>Don't worry about SNL's recovery. He is nowheres near recovery. He is still trying to figure out where he will do his next load of laundry. That is really a challenge for him right now and I am not even being sarcastic. That is easy for you but a challenge for him. On the other hand you have your challenges that are easy for him. You now have your plate full. Stop trying to fill up his plate. K?<p>L.

I can't believe that I get called on BS "generalizations"...but on this thread there's been outright WS *BASHING*...and not a word has been said condemning it.<p>Then again...I'm not all that surprised after all...<p>Well, I condemn it...I'm a WS...and I don't deserve to be left on some desert island. I don't deserve my very existence being questioned. <p>I understand that you're suffering...but you're a grown woman, Thinker, and more than capable of removing yourself from the situation. My sympathies only extend so far for someone who is suffering in a situation that THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE...but who is doing nothing but pointing fingers and ranting and raving. My true sympathies are for your children, who are being exposed to a horrible situation that is now, at this point, equally of both yourself and SnL's making.<p>I've said what I wanted to say...feel free to ignore me or whatever. After all...I'm just a worthless WS.<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

Dear TtF,
I think if you go back and search their posts from about a year ago, you will find that this type of dialog between this couple has continued for the whole year... I know to you, it probably sounds like we have accepted thinker's behavior/reaction toward s_n_l, and I guess we sorta have... Remember, the Plans are about the individuals working on themselves. We cannot change anybody OR their attitudes, they have to want to change for themselves. You make good points.<p>I know how you feel because I often wonder why anybody would take my advice or suggestions being a former OW with an OC by a MM... We tend to categorize and form opinions, and good luck on changing those once they are ingrained!<p>If you go back and search, that is, if you are really interested in all the why's... You will understand better.<p>Don't feel bad like anyone has an attitude toward you. They don't. I'm quite sure that MANY of the BS's who post here would be grateful to have a WS with YOUR attitude of remorse.<p>In any case, no need to take the things said here or any other thread you feel is WS bashing, as a personal attack. Just BS venting, is all. Some vent way more than others. thinker vents and vents and VENTS! She is not strong enough to make the graduation to shifting her focus yet. So ya gotta sorta understand that and be gentle cuz she's really REALLY hurting!<p>All thinker knows is taking care of her family and now it is in the process of being broken up. It IS sad, but it's probably for the best in this case. The marriage has gone sour and they will probably be healthier apart.<p>thinker, just consider yourself hugged real tight, okay. It's going to be okay. I know that you know that. I think you just have to accept it and find the good things in your life to be grateful for. Sooner or later, you will hit rock bottom and from that point, there is only one other direction to go, and that is UP, UP, UP! Things will pick up and get better for you! Hang in there!