I guess I just needed a place to go and vent this morning since last night my H and I had an argument. I was sitting out in the backyard and he had decided to join me. We picked up reading as a hobby and something to do together. He had finally decided to start reading "Suviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley (It reaaly helped me so I asked him to read it). Any way, he came out surprising and found me reading a new book called "letting Go" It is a 12 week personal action program to overcome a broken heart. He asked me what it was for and I explained I was still having occassional withdrawal symptoms. Well, that's all he needed to here. he darted back into to house very pissed off. We spent the next half hour arguing about my A. He thinks he's been very supportive and patient and feels threatened again because of these feelings I'm having. I told him I totally understand but it's different this time. I don't have any urges to call or see OM, even more so because I know he hates me. I just miss my old friend (OM) sometimes. My husband thought this brought us right back to square one and then throws out a comment about investing all this time and energy only to divource ayear from now. I told him I couldn't predict the future, however I was committed to fixing our marriage with his help. After this incidence I feel I can't tell him how I'm truly feeling in fear that it will only upset him again. I know that after my A I'm not trustworthy, but it really is different now. I'm home all the time and if not constantly checking in with him and just basically trying to me a good loving wife. When I hear what some of the other BS's are going through with their WS's I thought we were doing so much better.<p>I could really use some advice. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Brianna

Hi Brianna_38,
you do sound as if you are doing a good job. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Even though I am the BS I understand you. I also understand your H though too. Try to be patient with him, his feelings will be doing strange things with him and I'm sure he doesn't understand what the heck is going on. This happens to me still every once in awhile even though we are in great recovery since Jan.01. In situations like this maybe just go to him and hug him, give him your comfort and let him know that you are there for him, no matter what happens. It's surely not going to be easy but think he didn't put himself into this. I'm not saying this to make you feel guilty, no! You made a mistake and you H is trying to get over this, but for us BS's the world is just turned around. It will take alot more time for him to become more relaxed and to get the feeling of trust. Even if it "sucks" for you, be strong and show him that he can depend on you and show him your admiration!!!!!If you find it difficult to talk with him, just write him a letter and explain yourself, maybe just have him read this while you sit beside him and comfort him. I think he needs you now more than ever!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] and it sure sounds like you both are doing fine. It is very normal what you are going through.
hugs
BB

Hi there. I'm a WS also, and it's been about five months since I ended my own affair. I still get occasional triggers, as well...this is perfectly normal. Sometimes it can takes years to completely "get over" the feelings of missing what you had with the OM, and this is something that your husband needs to understand and accept without growing hostile and blowing up at you. This was a totally inappropriate response on his part. You have a right to express your feelings without the threat of him blowing up at you...and he has the right to be able to do the same with you.<p>Communication is essential to recovery and both of you need to make things "safe" in order for the other person to be able to open up and talk about things. <p>Missing the OM is not a horrible thing...it's natural to mourn the loss of such a close relationship. It takes time to heal from this loss...

Brianna,
It is very, very hard for the BS to deal with the fact that our WS has strong feelings for the OM/OW, and that it takes time and effort to overcome those.
He needs time, and if he's reading the Harley books he'll start to see it that way too. I know that at first I thought it could just end with no strings, but I know better now. It took me some time to realize that, and it was not easy.
You're doing the right thing...chin up...keep working at it!

Brianna --
Please don't judge your recovery by one incident.<p>And most of all, please allow him to have his reactions to what you say. You both have to allow each other to have reactions to triggers.
And you need to work very hard on being a "safe" place for each other to display those emotions.<p>Brianna, you scared him. Allow it. Let him react. Let him cool down. Then go back and tell him you understand. You are following the MB principal of radical honesty, and you understand that some of your revelations may cause him pain. But no matter what you are committed to doing the work to restore and rebuild your marriage. Give him reassurance. (I know that you feel like you already did -- but do it again and again and again)<p>Good Luck Brianna!

I just asked for help on this same question the other day. I'm the BS. H still thinks about OW
and says that he still loves her in away. But it's not the way I think it is?? What is it,what do you miss should we not be scared??
He says he is here for us and only us. He loves me and is every sorry. Wants to spend the rest of his life with me and try to make up for what he has done. It's been 15 mos. since d-day

Be VERY careful in how you share such information. My guess is that you told him in a casual manner. My guess is that he took such as a disregard for how he would feel at learning of such.<p>The following is how I would have liked for my wife to have told me such:<p>Me: Honey, why are you reading that?
Wife: Come inside for a moment, I would like to speak to you. You know I love you with all of my heart. I am so sorry for all the pain I have cause you and I am very much looking forward to each new day of our successful recovery. I KNOW we are going to make it and that our lives will be better than they ever where before. I also want you to know that I still struggle at times. I still miss the OM, not because I want him, but because this is a natural state of withdrawal. He was a friend at one time, though obviously not a very good one. This book is designed to help me to get over those feelings and to put him competely out of our lives for good. This book will help my recovery and it will help me to better focus my love and attention on you in our future.<p>---------------<p>She validated me, reasurred me, then told me news I probably did not like to hear, but I understood it and would appreciate her honesty and her hope for the future.<p>Our egos can be very fragile right now. Extra caution is advised when you are discussing anything to do with the OP. Any matter-of-fact statement can be seen as flippant, mean, and uncarring due to the circustances.

Brianna - what's your H's attitude towards coming to this forum?<p>It has long been interesting to me the opposite degrees of attitude displayed by both BSs and WSs. It's either your case, with a willing WS and a haughty BS, or a haughty WS and a willing BS. There doesn't seem to be any in-between - at least not early on.<p>Sorry to stray from your question.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brianna_38:
<strong>I told him I couldn't predict the future, however I was committed to fixing our marriage with his help.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Other than also recommending patience, this thought came to my mind as I read your words, repeated above:<p>If you actually said, "I can't predict the future," what your husband might have heard is, "I'm not promising ANYTHING!"<p>OF COURSE you can't predict the future! He knows this. But by saying it, it may result in him thinking that you're giving yourself an "out." To him, this means you're not committed to fixing your marriage, even if you're saying so. Remember, he doesn't trust you as far as he can throw you.<p>It may seem like a small difference to you, but it could be HUGE to him, if instead you would say, "I have no intention of divorcing you. I expect to crerate a better marriage than either of us dreamed was possible a short while ago." That is, if you can truthfully say this.<p>WAT

Brianna: You are doing fine. You have received a lot of good advice here, and everything makes perfect sense. Think of it this way. . . you are now dedicated to rebuilding. You know that what you want is what you have, and you want nothing more to work hand in hand with your husband to fine tune that. So after all this work he is having a trigger day and is really down. He makes a comment that he just doesn't know if this will work. How do you react? I bet in the same way he did. I know I did when my BS has made comments like that. Yes, we all react to certain things. Sure there are better ways to do so, but sometimes we just simply react. It will pass and you will soon feel right back on track. Believe me, this is just one of many rocks you will encounter in your path, but you will find that you will make it past them, and they will grow futher apart. As for your comment "After this incidence I feel I can't tell him how I'm truly feeling in fear that it will only upset him again." When things are calm, try talking to him about this. Let him know you understand and "respect" how he feels, but would appreciate it if he would try to discuss it more productively in the future. Tell him you love him and will work with him on this as well. That worked for me quite well. Keep up the good work, and I wish you well.

Thanks for everyone's advice! I'm going to let me husband read all your responses as well as continue to ancourage him to visit MB site. Currently he is not receiving much support for his decision work on the marriage, and that's a big factor in his mood swings.<p>blondblossom: I'm going to try your suggestion of writing a letter to him instead. In fact I do find it easier to express myself that way.<p>Mr. Bunky: Thanks for your great example of how I should have brought up the subject! It's interesting how what we say can be totally interpreted a different way. I will use that technique the next time a similar situation arises.<p>Worthatry: Thanks for your analyzation of my wording. Now I understand what my H really heard when I said "I can't predict the future" I can't wait to go home to reassure my H about what I really meant!<p>tutter13: Thanks for your encouragement!<p>Brianna

Hey Brianna,<p>My H and I had a conversation (argument) recently where he got really pissed at me because he asked me what guarantee he had I would never do something like this again. <p>I find it very hard to answer this question so quickly on the heels of my affair. I was weak, and stupid when I got involved in the affair, sometime's I doubt even myself. Will I get weak and take the easy way out again? I know in my heart, I don't want to, but I did it before... and I have a long history of self distructive behavior. All I know is since I have been going to counseling and taking an antidepressant, those urges to do self destructive things have pretty much diminished. My focus and desire is totally on my H and my family. I tell him this, and all he gets out of it and responds back with is, "so if the desire hits you again, you could go right off and do it again." That's when I tell him "I guess you can say there are no guarantees in life, I'm just telling you I don't want to do it." (I admit, I was getting annoyed because I always seem to state something only for him to jump on ONE part). He too got pissed, he says "well I KNOW I would never do it to you." I am not very good at expressing my emotions, my family never was. He is the total opposite.
Also, I have the same problem as you, whenever I bring up my A in any shape or form, I immediately see a pissed look on his face, and he is hostile about whatever I tell him. He even got really pissed when I told him MM was moving to another city. He said he thinks MM left because my H wanted to kick his [censored], MM left for a job. I have tried approaching him in many different ways. When I don't mention anything, I get accused of forgetting about it, and not owning up to it. Even though I think about it all throughout the day. I tell him that and he shakes his head in disbelief. I know I lost his trust, but at the same time when I try to tell him things his reaction makes me think twice about telling anything else. The constant "I don't believe you's" makes it hard to want to say anything also, I mean, why bother?
I realize I caused him a hurt so deep, he is devestated by it. We are getting better and better about being able to talk, with time. I am hoping that with more time, it will only get better.
It sounds like you are doing a good job of opening up the honesty with your H, hopefully with time he will see it as you taking the steps to heal yourself.

Re: trust.<p>WS cannot fully comprehend just how much trust is shattered and destroyed after the A. The one person that we trusted the most betrayed us in the worst possible way. Many BS, including me, will tell you that they cannot and have not experienced a greater pain in their life -- and it is the result of the behavior of the one they trust the most.<p>Trust may be one of the last things that is fully regained. Any slip of my wife makes me feel she is being dishonest. There are still some things (and we are in recovery) that I don't believe are the truth. I don't know when I will believe such.<p>Why bother? because only with time and repeated demonstrations will we believe our FWS. WS do not deserve trust after the A. It must beregained. Honestly, you have little room for defensiveness over the lack of trust that the BS may have. If you want them to trust you, treat them the same regardless of times when they don't believe you. In most cases, the WS has lied repeatedly and most convincingly to the BS. We can't help but to think back on those times when you may behave the same way (with the appearance of honesty) during recovery.<p>BS need to share (or better yet not share) their lack of honesty in a kind and respectful manner. Telling your FWS that you don't trust them is much like throwing the A in their face - not something you want to do. Both should know that the trust is missing. That fact does not need to be brought up all the time and if it does need to be brought up (see below), then it should be handled delicately.<p>I currently have trust issues over my wife's privacy. I read her journal once (and confessed later) and I know she journalizes her feelings often. I have reason not to trust her. I may not have a reason to not trust what she is writing in her journal but the simple fact that it is kept private and secret creates a huge amount of anxiety for me that she is keeping things from me that I would find damaging.<p>So, do I let this go or address it? In this case, I think it needs to be addressed. I need to share my feelings of anxiety that it creates. Perhaps we can work out some sort of amicable solution that allows me to build trust while at the same time gives her some privacy to write down her thoughts.<p>Since I have yet to have this conversation with my wife, I cannot say what the result will be.

Bunky - Yes, I have come to a deep realization of how trust has been shattered for my BS toward me. I have been very level headed about this, and extremely understanding. We've had conversations where I've mentioned that "I know you don't trust me." BH responds, "I do trust you." I gave him a gentle smile and said "I know you WANT to trust me, but deep down you don't." Then before he could interrupt I add, "but that's to be expected, and it's ok. I can handle that. One day I will give you reason to trust me again, but until then I will work with you."<p>I think you got the whole point of the dilema here when you talked about HOW to deal with it. Both parties need to realize the severity of this topic and deal with it productively, and more importantly we WSs need to be all the more understanding. At lunch time today my husband and I had a similar talk. I told him I was going to the shopping center with so-and-so. He said that I'm going out a lot lately. I asked if he had a problem with this. He said kind of. I asked if he would like to discus it. He said, well, how do I know there isn't some guy that works there. I paused (to keep my calmness and sort of gather what he was feeling) and replied that I guess you really can't. However, I said that there isn't any guy that I'm going to see there. I explained that there aren't too many places near work to go for lunch. That was it. When we talked later there was no mention of it, and he was fine (I can usually tell from his tone, and such). It went really well.<p>Now, grant it, this patience comes with time, but even when things go a bit raw, it is recoverable. Take the time to think about things and go back later with some reassurances, and a simple hug usually goes a long way.

I'm not sure if I will say this correctly or not, so bear with me Bunky. I am not saying I deserve trust, I realize it has to be earned back. I also am not saying my getting defensive is right when he comes at me angry. I told him sometimes it does come out of left field to me, and that is my natural reaction, whether or not it is the right one is the problem. <p>Now, down to the issues with your wife, and her journal keeping. One thing you have to realize is you can not constantly control your wife. If you are trying to, you have co-dependency issues (I am guessing). If you find yourself too consumed with what she is doing, writing, you are doing yourself a disservice. SHE knows now that you are aware of what she did, and what she needs to do to make it right. You can't MAKE her.<p>I am interested in your post because my counselor wants me to write things down that I think I have anger over and I haven't addressed. Mainly things related to my childhood or my dad. I am not to particularly keen on my H reading it, because he tends to want to analyze me, and it ticks me off. <p>If I would have journaled my thoughts from our last argument, my H would not have liked it. I was thinking about how I wasn't sure I would be able to make it with him now that I have tainted the relationship, will I someday have to divorce him because he can't get past what I did to him. It is at the forefront of his mind in every argument we have, and he uses it as his ammo to downplay anything he does. I always did worse. I know I have to expect this, I am not saying that, but at the same time, you start to wonder if you have done too much damage. <p>Here is a situation where I got defensive:
When I ran into an old friend at a restaurant, she came up and grabbed me and hugged me. We are talking and her new H comes up and she introduces him to me and my H. We are at one of these restaurants where you cook your own steaks. My H is cooking mine, I was heading to set up our baked potato's. Meanwhile, she is talking my ear off about her new baby and H. I look over and my H has this pissed look, and is I can tell he is not happy. When I get to the table, I can tell the rest of our family is uncomfortable and I hear him saying "she's nothing but trouble, and I don't like her talking to W". My friend then comes over and shows me and my MIL and some of my SIL's a pic of her baby, and I introduce her as an old friend from work. My H is at the other end of the table and won't look at me or her. He just got done badmouthing her right before she came over. This is the first time I've seen her in years, we used to ALL work together, and my H knew her H.
When we left he said he was pissed because she is divorced and remarried and he didn't want me hanging around her. I said I talked to her on the phone a while back and she told me she was pregnant and was in the middle of moving. He said you've talked to her???? Who else have you been talking to up at work huh??? I have to tell him the whole stupid story. She called me, left a number on machine at home, I lost it and called her home phone. Her exH answered and I asked for her, he says you don't know, she doesnt' live here. Tells me it's cool, he has a new GF, gives me my friends number. I call her, we speak a couple of times, she tells me she is pregnant and moving to a new home. Will get in touch later. Next time I see her is at the restaurant and she is all thin and looks good (another thing that bother him, as I have lost a lot of weight, he feels to overweight to compete right now, he tells me that a lot). I NEVER have hung out with her, just worked with her. I told him it wasn't right for him to badmouth her in front of family, she did not deserve that. He did not even know the circumstances around her divorce. (and it was not an A). He then accused me of making him look like a jerk in front of his family because I made him insecure like that. He has a VERY hard time with controlling his anger. Now Bunky, I wanted him to express his concerns and fears, but in the car when we were away from the group. There was no way to address what was occuring then. I seriously thought he was mad because I didn't fix his baked potato the way he wanted due to my talking to her. <p> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't think anyone's being overly-defensive when they simply request to have problems and issues addressed in a rational and non-abusive (and yelling at someone is abusive) manner. It's simply being aware that both parties are adults, and being aware that both parties are hurting and should be treated as gently as possible under the circumstances.

Thanks again for all your responses!<p>&#8220;Tutter&#8221; and &#8220;Findingmywayback&#8221; our situations are so similar it gives me shivers! Minus the children that is&#8230;we don&#8217;t have any kids yet. I too have a difficult time expressing myself, just like the rest of my family. For us to, it seems that when we don&#8217;t talk about the A he thinks I&#8217;ve forgotten everything and gone back to my normal ways, but when I don&#8217;t bring up certain issues it only upsets him.<p>He doesn&#8217;t understand how I just can&#8217;t just forget about OM and not have withdrawal symptoms. As if I want to be feeling like this! The symptoms have lessoned since I&#8217;ve been on antidepressants and I also recently heard that the OM is bad mouthing me to mutual friends. But some days nice memories do come back.<p>I did not mention to all of you that my H to had an A also. He doesn&#8217;t recall if it was just before, or just after we were engaged in Feb/96. He however looks at his A differently. He was after his last bit of &#8220;fun&#8221;, which lasted 3 months he says. He then cut off OW and totally forgot about her he says, so therefore it should be that easy for me to do the same with OM. Even though we were not married at the time, we were seriously dating for 6 years, so in a sense I think I was somewhat betrayed also. My A was more emotional and intense than his, therefore making it more difficult for me to forget.<p>I spoke to him this afternoon and he seemed to be in a weird mood. He told me we would talk more tonight so I&#8217;ll give everyone an update. Wish me luck.<p>Brianna

Good luck tonight, I'll be around tomorrow if you need someone to talk to it about. Our situations are very similar, it's nice to talk with you guys.

I think that this pain is still very new to your H. Especially if there have been 2 D days. 3 mos is a very short time for him to even begin healing. After my H's affair with my former best friend, it took about 2 years to really feel better. Then I found out 6 years later that they had lied, it was PA, not EA and I've only known that for 9 mos. So now I have to start all over again.<p>If it were 3 mos after I found out, I'd probably feel very much like your H does right now. I know it's painful for both of you, and I realize you can never put yourself in his place.<p>If you read Torn Asunder, you'll see that you have to feel 100% of your husband's pain, rage, depression, etc. for him to really recover. If he hides it, you are more likely to do this again. Living thru one Dday is awful enough, he's been through 2. <p>I am glad you are committed to working on your marriage and are in counseling. Cut him some slack, it's going to take a LOOOOOONG time for him to heal. I know, I've been there twice and I really resent it. good luck