I am proceeding with cautious optimism but I wanted to let you know that my WS told me that she broke it off with OM. I want to thank all of you that responded to me over these past four months. Off the top of my head it was RedHat, Zorweb, SNL, Sad Dad, CarolKH, Truer Still and countless others that have responded to my vents. I think the best advice I got was "Jeff, plan A is not for wimps!" I kept telling myself that and it kindled my fighter spirit.<p>OK so I am here to tell you that it is not a "home run" It is not like she saw the error of her ways and came running back to me with open arms. She tells me she wants to work on our marriage but after she works on herself. She tells me for the kids sake she wants to know that she tried her best to make our marriage work. Yet she refuses to wear her wedding ring. I have approached her about the rules of no contact and she is not interested in that. Her A was with a co worker who works in a different location (20 miles apart) she believes that is enough of a separation, that she can choose not to communicate with him. But cell phones, e-mail, desk phones, inter org mail are all ways they kept the EA up. "You will just have to trust me, and if you don't, I don't care I need to work on myself first!" Of course I am following all of this up with "yes dear". I need to buy some time to try and figure out what to do next, my fall back is to continue on with plan A and try to suck her back in. I have to admit that she is taking responsibilty for the A happening after she read a book about Anger in Woman, atleast she is not 100% blaming me for it. Now she is reading a book on Co-dependancy by Beattie. That scares me a little, but she is reading, getting educated!<p>The kicker is before this happened I was planning plan B and had an appt. scheduled with Jennifer H.C. to coach me through it for last night. I of course told her of my sudden change in events and she asked if she could talk to my wife. They talked for 80 minutes alone. At the end the W told me she felt alienated. That she did not believe that there was a cookie cutter plan out there to get M back to where it needed to be. I think the analogy Jennifer used was a plan to get a college education, and how you had to adhere to aspects of the plan to come to the desired result which would be to get a degree. Or in our case to be happily married. She told me that she does not care if I continue to counsel with her but she does not care to talk to her again. OUCH that hurt! I wanted those two to hit it off. The principles outlined on the website and in the book have got me this far with my sanity. I congratulated myself for creating an environment that was conducive to giving our marriage another chance. And doing it without separating so that there were no negative effects on our kids (7,5, and 1). <p>What do you think, I feel like I have relaxed (a little) for the first time in months. I want to believe I am in recovery. I know I have a lot to learn. Do I simply give it time? Do all the signs point to the fact that I am kidding myself? What about the rules of protection? Does anyone actually do this? I don't see A WS still in love with OP doing these things. Six to eight weeks before that love subsides right? That is with no contact. I see a definite gray area here. But don't get me wrong I have been looking for any sign of a positive step and this is the first one so I am taking it, we will call it a double! Like I said I need to get educated on this new step and need help with some direction. I planned on getting it during my phone session but looks like I will have to wait until next month. Like I said in the beginning I cant thank you all enough for the support.

ineedabreak,<p>As long as there is a contact there is no chance of M recovery. Sorry to hear this but you have to stick in plan A. W/ her refusing Jennifer, IMHO, she is still in the fog. She didn't like what MB has to say about her.<p>Now, since you still could talk to her or communicate with her, find out what went wrong. What EN is OM filling her ?. Learn to compete with OM, you have pyhsical advantages by being there next to her. It is hard but you have to do it if you want to save your M.<p>You must know by now what EN that you failed to meet prior to her A. Tune it up ... schedule family vacations, flowers, love notes ... etc. You still have time.<p>Hang in there -RH-

Wow RH that was fast, I hear you loud and clear. I sent her flowers for the first time ever last Saturday and got a date planned for this Friday. Hell I would like to have a little fun too. I have to admit its all new to me. I have been noticing though, that the harder I try the less she does. Guess it goes with the territory. Thanks for the advice.

Ineedabreak wrote
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have approached her about the rules of no contact and she is not interested in that. <hr></blockquote><p>Same thing with my wife. I don't think this is unusual for a WW as they don't want to be under your control. This is a control issue.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>"You will just have to trust me, and if you don't, I don't care I need to work on myself first!" <hr></blockquote><p>My WW still says the same thing. But, understand, you DO NOT have to trust her. She is a liar. She is not trustwothy.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> she is taking responsibilty for the A happening <hr></blockquote><p>That is a good sign. She seems to be showing remorse. Next will come some form of repentance, but ONLY IN HER TIMING. Don't make the mistake I've made, of pushing her to "make this up to you". If she feels like you expect her to do that, she won't. If she wants to, on her terms, she will.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> she did not believe that there was a cookie cutter plan out there to get M back to where it needed to be <hr></blockquote><p>My WW also has a big problem with MB, counselors, books, etc. She feels threatened by these "solutions". I have had to show enormous patience (somehing I suck at) and pray alot to get through this. <p>One thing we BS have to realize. In many instances when a deep emotional,physical affair develops with OM, our WW have fallen out of love with us. Before the A. With a WW, it is often not about sex, or about the OM being better than BH, it is about a loss of love. My wife says she tried to love me, then she fought me, then she stopped caring, period. Then A happened.<p>So now your WW, and mine, are at the stage of "doing the right thing", ending the A, dealing with "themselves". We have to keep loving them (if we really do) and patiently await their return (if they really will). There are no guarantees, my friend, that your Plan A will result in your WW loving you again. BUT, your Plan A WILL result in a better you. That's the only guarantee.<p>Right now, I suggest you take each morning as a new challenge to be the best husband you can be for that day. Give her room, and space. Don't expect ANYTHING. Then everything is a bonus.<p>One final suggestion. Protect yourself. I don't mean active, on-going distrust. But if you have reason to suspect that contact is continuing, when she is telling you it is not, you need to find ways to discover the truth. And remember, it is almost impossible to confirm no contact, but easy to confirm contact. So be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.<p>Glad to hear you're doing good. God Bless.

Yes - grab this step forward, no matter how small it may seem, and hold it tight for times when you need to look back for some encouragement. It may seem small to some, but hey - we have to start somewhere.<p>Ok, about the trust thing. Mind you I say this as a WW. It's true, you don't have to trust her. She doesn't deserve that, and she really needs to realize, understand, and accept that. Try to have a little faith in her when you feel it's right, but know that it's normal and ok not to trust her. Trust won't come for a long time. I'm 9 months into rebuilding with my husband and I still don't expect him to trust me. I know he wants to, but I reassure him that it's ok that he doesn't. For some things I think he does, but for some it's understandable that he doesn't.<p>Now the Jennifer thing. It may not be that she's rejecting counseling. Give her a little time to warm up to the whole thing. Yes, she needs to work on her. That is so true. Just like you needed/need to work on you. It's an important step in getting to working on the marriage. The counseling thing could just be that she may have felt a little overwhelmed, or somewhat attacked. It could be far from the truth, but still how she may have felt. Don't push it on her. Maybe she will decide to go to someone else. Maybe she could talk to Steve instead. The same counselor may work for one but not the other. <p>In any event, I see some positive here, and you have every right to look forward. Be cautious all the same, but don't miss the good. Also, as you will want to hear from her when you are doing something good and/or right, she will gain alot from the same coming from you.<p>My best to you. Take care.

OK I have 2 different screen names here. I have taken the advice to heart. Continue in plan A, if possible even step it up a notch. If I can find a way to believe her I think it will make it all the more easier. Stay tuned. The roller coaster ride is definitely not over yet.