I havent had contact with OM since my H found out and I ended it. It was on its way out anyway, and I knew it.
H and I have been going to therapy, we have come a long way... his anger is much much better and coming home is much more enjoyable than it used to be. The only place we really have trouble is the bedroom. I still cannot open up to him sexually. I just don't have the desire for him. He and I are great friends....and we enjoy each others company... I'm not sure why I cant do more.<p>Part of what my affair was all about was to see if it was really just ME....or if I just felt that way about him. I realized that I was able to open up and give my all to the OM.... it was shocking to me, in fact.<p>Sooo, I wonder if any other WS have had this problem??????? I know it hurts the BS to hear this.....

CM,<p>Can't give you the WS response, but I can give you my personal insight of lack of intamacy.<p>BH's (if they are like me) feel as though their special-ness of intercourse has been taken away with WW. Is it the same, yes and no. I for a very long period felt as though my WW was infected with a disease and this of course did not give in to arousal. That was a big problem. <p>Even after while and having intercourse, to me it was just sex and not making love. Same physical act, different emotional state. Now, it is the latter.<p>Of course the WW's not owned in any way, but "it" was taken away or stolen and can never be given back to a BH. It is very much a "pride" and "ego" thing for many of us. One of the first things we probably think is, "we couldn't satisfy our wifes sexually!" Your H may very well be in an extreme low with this isuue, that could be very much the problem.<p>Try to do things that you know will arouse or get his desire going. It may be a start for you.<p>wwl<p>[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: wrestlingwithlove ]</p>

I offered this suggestion on another thread, but just in case you didn't see it: Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch will help with the lack of desire problem. Also, you each may want to try Light Her Fire and Light His Fire by Ellen Kriedmann.<p>Also, Dr. Harley's SAA and Fall in Love, Stay in Love are always helpful.

CM,
You are truly aptly named.
Let's see, You screw around behind your husband's back and he finds out. For whatever reasons he continues to live with you and go to therapy.
You are now tormenting yourself because you can't seem to get aroused with him.
It seems to me your values and priorities are all to hell. You don't die if you don't have sex but you might if your wife has been screwing around behind your back.
I think a lot of men would be angry living with someone as shallow as you.

Olderandwiser,
You might be older, but probably not wiser, and most definitely not kinder. In fact, you're being a jerk.<p>ConfusedMom is a woman who made a mistake and is trying to fix her marriage. I think her values are right in order. She is seeking input on a very common problem after an affair--regaining an intimate connection with her spouse.<p>I don't know where all your anger comes from or what your situation is, but you are obviously full of hostility that makes you lash out at people. I suggest that you take a step back and ask yourself why you are here. If you are so shocked that a man could take his wife back after an affair, you should probably leave this forum because--*NEWSFLASH*--that's why most of us are here--to rebuild our marriages.<p>calla

First to CM,<p>Thank you for addressing this. I am going through the same thing. H is a wanderful man. I know this, I think I always did. <p>Second..Calla30'<p>You are correct. Believe me I know what I did was wrong. I never thought my life would be the way it is now, and I know that it is my actions that put me here. BUT, NEVER, NEVER did I decide I was going to destroy my life and everyone elses around me, AND I wouldn't be at this site spending hours sometimes, reading everyones post if I didn't want to make things right.<p>I have been a little gun shy on posting because of responses like olderandwiser.<p>I do have broad shoulders, and I do take responsibilty that I have done something very wrong, and now I am taking the responsibilty to make it right. I feel bad enough, and I know the BS's do also, and with there insight without judgement helps to follow a path that leads me back to my H.

Hi there,
Well for us, we had to work on a few things before we got back to a level of intimacy. We arent 100% there but we are making progress.
being friends again is a good step, but it IS easy to get stuck there. <p>Try to work on falling in love again... my FWW said that once she started feeling love for me again, she started wanting to be more intimate.<p>
Ever think back to your early days of dating? You two ever do anything wild? Remember some of those days. go on dates, dress up nicely for each other and do a dinner date or something with no expectations. Sometimes as odd and awkward as it sounds, scheduling a day or a promise for once a week or so for SF works for some couples. It takes the awkwardness off of either of you about initiating untill you get back into the swing of things. <p>Good luck!<p>-HI

I was watching today as a matter of fact on "women sexual dysfuntion" on THE VIEW. NOW i dont get to watch regular tv often but i was getting my hair done and got to see exactly how trashy TV can be....ok... im off that soap box LOL..<p>On the show...it talked about the reasons of WHY women have some dysfunction...many reasons were because of small children, job stress, not enough testosterone..ect ect....however for WOMEN...if the EMOTIONS are not there....eitehr is DESIRE. So, if there is lots of emotion surrounding the relationship specially due to an affair...then for women.....the desire really cant/doesnt exsist. ofcourse this isnt true for all women...but not all weight loss programs work either for all women (hehehe).<p>How do u get it back? NO CLUE. IF you come up with the answer...email me man....cause id like to figure that out myself. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>mercy
ginama2496@hotmail.com

Thanks for the input everyone.....even YOU, olderandwiser. Its because of people like YOU that I don't post very often. <p>Anyway, we are both trying..... I just wanted to know if others are going through the same thing. Usually there is a reason for the affair...and perhaps the reasons aren't quite all gone, I don't know. I know that he has changed his anger and sarcasm and hurtful zingers that he used to fling around at his whim. And, I appreciate that and the kids are even happier, I can see the closeness they are developing because he has changed his ways.<p>Thanks calla and kirpy and wrestling and conqueror.... i will get the Passionate Monogamy book....<p>Also..... thanks for your replies HanginIn and mercy.... I've been wanting to post this topic for a long time, but hesitated.<p>Our counselor has said to basically......'buck up and just do it' and 'fake it till ya make it' type of thing..... i try to do that... but it doesnt seem to fool anyone.<p>I will read the book and let yall know! thanks all!

To olderandwiser,<p>I'm sorry for the anger you have in you.....wow, you almost sound like someone i know well....but you probably arent. Just because people make mistakes, does NOT make them shallow and i resent you saying that. My husband deserves ALL of me and I'm just trying to figure out how to do that.....is that so HARD for you to understand????<p>And yes, the people who came to my defense were right...........this is a place where we should feel free to get some answers.......who else can we ask???? And without harsh judgements.<p>well.........enuff said.......i COULD go on and on.....but guess i better not......HA!

BTW, I'd find a different therapist FOR SURE. Mercy f**ks only harm a M. Can't believe that advice! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You can get help finding a therapist familiar with Schnarch's Sexual Crucible approach at their website: www.passionatemarriage.com . The Sexual Crucible approach combines marital and sex therapy and is definitely THE answer for low desire.<p>Another thing I have tried in the past that has helped is to dig out all the memorabilia of your courtship and times when your relationship was good--any love letters, cards, pictures, mementos of any kind. You'd be amazed how positively it can affect you.

Interesting........I kept calling the book Passionate Monogomy......but its called.....Passionate Marriage.....perhaps thats a good slip??? I'm hoping so!<p>Thanks again, people!

CM,<p>Hey peace ! I'm sorry please read this anyway.<p>You said,<p>"Just because people make mistakes, does NOT make them shallow and i resent you saying that."<p>I didn't accuse you of being shallow because you feel you made a mistake. I was berating you because you seem to regard SF as a right, a necessity, a sort of obligation.<p>for example you said<p>"Part of what my affair was all about was to see if it was really just ME....or if I just felt that way about him."<p>What is this feeling that you just have screw for screwing's sake? Do you really feel that?<p>Now you say<p>"My husband deserves ALL of me and I'm just trying to figure out how to do that.....is that so HARD for you to understand???? "<p>Frankly I do not understand, I can't see how anybody "deserves" anything of another human being it seems contrary to human rights.<p>You might have made a mutual contract with your husband to be exclusive sex partners but I doubt you have a contract that guarantees SF.<p>I prefer to think of SF as a bonus, something that just might happen if
you are both feeling good individually and together
the bills are paid
the kids are well
the house is not on fire
you are laughing and at peace with your world
+ whatever else matters for each of you is in line.<p>Ordinarily these things do not happen all at once 3 times a week and twice on weekends but at least for those with an over-abundance of tostesterone can use this list to improve their chances.
You can also go without which hurts but isn't lethal or you can get a quick fix that could kill someone and ruin a lot of lives.<p>I'm not angry, I just think that people who regard SF as a benchmark in the terms you write are shallow.<p>I strongly believe it ain't like that and persisting with this model is actually contributing to bad relationships.<p>And I think yours is an example. My remarks were intended to help you fix that.<p>Sorry I was too abrupt.

Calla,<p>I'm sorry I obviously offended you.<p>You said,<p>"I think her values are right in order. She is seeking input
on a very common problem after an affair--regaining an intimate
connection with her spouse."<p>What I objected to is her perceived obligation to have SF though not wanting to.
I find that attitude degrading.<p>You said,<p>"If you are so shocked that a man could take his wife back
after an affair, you should probably leave this forum
because--*NEWSFLASH*--that's why most of us are here--to rebuild our
marriages."<p>In no way am I shocked by that it is his business.

Olderandwiser,<p>RE: “I can't see how anybody "deserves" anything of another human being it seems contrary to human rights.”<p>Human rights go both ways. In our country person can behave in any manner, with the law, to another. However, each of us ‘deserves’ to be treated with respect. We ‘deserve’ to be treated with love by our spouse, family and close friends. We ‘deserve’ to be treated with respect by our boss, co-workers and other in society. If we are not treated in this manner, then we have the ‘right’, and I believe personal obligation, to either avoid the offender and/or confront them.<p>If one spouse threats the other unlovingly and without respect, the offended spouse has the ‘right’ first to confront. Then if that does not improve the situation, the right to leave.<p>RE: “You might have made a mutual contract with your husband to be exclusive sex partners but I doubt you have a contract that guarantees SF.”
While the legal contract of marriage may or may not guarantee SF, I do believe that in all three of the religions based on “The Book”, Judaism, Christianity and Islam make SF a obligatory part of marriage. And I believe that at least in some jurisdictions a person can ask for a divorce based on no SF for a significant period of time. <p>I know that Catholics can get an annulment if the marriage was not consummated.<p>RE: “I prefer to think of SF as a bonus, something that just might happen if
you are both feeling good individually and together”<p>You are right that SF should never be forced. But I can tell you from experience that when one spouse has no desire for the other, over a long period of time, it can kill a significant emotional part of the other. In my previous marriage, my ex-h refused to be intimate for the last 7 of our 14 years together. The last couple of years before he cut SF off he grew more and more physically cold toward me. He just did not have the desire. Why? Because nothing I did was good enough for him. I was, as are all humans, imperfect. Some times I did not do the dishes because I was tired after working all day, raising a chilled as a mostly sole parent while he pursued his medical degree and his OW’en.<p>By the end of those 7 years I was dying emotionally. It took me a lot of work to pull myself out of that hole. So ConfusedMom has something real to worry about here. She could slowly drive her H away and kill his love for her. She would be shallow and selfish if she did not worry about it.<p>SF is an important part of human existence. Yes, people can go without it. But life is much better with a loving relationship with SF. A good sex life even makes a person live longer and healthier. Read somewhere that is a couple has SF twice a week for a year, it’s equivalent to running 90 miles a year. Not a bad way to stay healthy.

ConfusedMom,<p>I really don’t like your counselor’s advice to act ‘as if’ in this case. Certainly some of that is ok in SF, but obligatory SF can lead to a repulsion toward SF.<p>Re: I know that he has changed his anger and sarcasm and hurtful zingers<p>It sounds to me like your H has turned you off to him emotionally with his past behavior. Just as you have to earn his trust back after your affair, he has to earn your trust back. Do you really trust that his behavior has changed permanently?<p>This is a two way street. You both have to woo each other back. <p>Besides reading the books you suggest here, I would suggest that you see a sex therapist for a few sessions. I know from experience that they have some exercises that you and your H can do that will more then likely rev your desire backup to where you want it. SF is a habit as must as anything else. You have gotten out of the habit of feeling and desiring him. There are ways to get that back.<p>I hope you work through this.

Zorweb hi,<p>Your own words seem to prove my point.<p>"By the end of those 7 years I was dying emotionally. It took me a lot of work to pull myself out of that hole. "<p>You seem to be complaining more about the emotional detachment than the absence of SF.<p>And I'm not arguing for less SF. I'm arguing for as much as both of you want. If one partner wants zero then there is a probably an issue which needs fixing . But the issue is not SF it is elsewhere.
If one partner wants it when the other doesn't and gets his or her way then ultimately they are just using the other's body as a masturbation aid.<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: olderandwiser ]</p>

olderandwiser<p>RE: “You seem to be complaining more about the emotional detachment than the absence of SF. “<p>No, I’m complaining about both. SF and emotional needs are so closely tied. The SF detachment caused a lot of the emotional pain I experienced.

Zorweb, <p>For you, yes SF and emotional needs are so closely tied. That is precisely why I wouldn't accuse you of being shallow.

I would urge sticking with Schnarch's combined approach because the emotional and sexual issues in the M are completely intertwined. The usual approach of sex therapy is sensate focus, which can end up causing more problems than it solves. Focusing on your genitals detracts from focusing on your partner and can lead to less intimacy rather than more.<p>Schnarch explains all this in Passionate Marriage. His clinical experience led him to develop the Sexual Crucible approach because combining marital and sex therapy yielded the greatest results with higher levels of intimacy and maximizing sexual potential. Basically, fixing the emotional problems leads to resolution of the sexual problems, and greater emotional intimacy leads to greater sexual exploration and fulfillment.<p>As Cali said somewhere about this book, you will experience a lot of "A-ha" moments as you read it. Much like the experience of reading HNHN.