My husband and I had a long talk last night where he told me that he has never been faithful to anyone. He says he wants to be faithful, but he does not know if he is capable of being faithful since he never has been -- although he claims to have gone through long periods (years) of not cheating and the first physical relationship he had with another woman was after we'd been married for about 5 1/2 years. <p>He is probably a sex addict.<p>My belief is that saying he's "incapable" is a cop out and only another way to excuse his behavior. All addicts are *capable* of being sober. If they continue to allow their addiction to rule their lifes it's not because they are incapable of fighting that addiction, just that for whatever reason they choose not to.<p>Opinions on the idea of being "incapable" of being faithful, would be appreciated. Hopefully it will help me better understand where he is coming from. <p>I wanted to add -- I have a problem with overeating. My husband claims I am "incapable" of losing weight because I never have successfully (I've always gained it back). However, I am not incapable -- I know I can lose weight, I'm losing weight right now, but I often *choose* not to lose weight because I would rather eat. It is a choice I make, and sometimes I'm not happy with that choice and hate the way I look -- but it's still a choice -- no one shoves the food down my throat.<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Dedex1 ]<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Dedex1 ]</p>

I'll have to agree with you. It's a cop-out to say "I can't" do something. We all have choices. Sometimes those choices are seeking help (counselors, etc.). <p>If we really want something bad enough, we can figure out a way to do it. The problem lies in the "want to"... IMO.

Well, he does say he wants to, but is unsure if he'll be able to (never having done it before). Do other types of addicts feel this way when they are beginning the road to recovery? <p>He actually has not said he is incapable of being faithful only that he does not know if he is capable. Perhaps I am making a mountain out of a molehill and focusing too much on his fear that he will not be able to remain faithful -- according to him, he's never even tried before, but is trying now.

I'd have to say that it's not hopeless. If he never even tried to be faithful before, but now he is--THAT IS PROGRESS. And if he never went to counseling before, but now he is--THAT IS PROGRESS ALSO.<p>You have to look at the bigger picture sometimes. In your life with him you've had some really, really bad times. I can tell that by your signature. Just a few lines tell so much, don't they? We all know the agony and pain that an A has caused us. How much pain and agony do multiple As cause the BS? More than you could ever describe......I know, my H has done this to me also more than once. <p>I had to decide if I wanted to stay with him each time. Look at our life and our family. Make serious choices and follow thru with my decisions. It was a long time between the last one years ago and the A now that supposedly just ended.<p>I think there are a lot of reasons to give him some time to work on himself. If he is really serious about making the changes necessary to become a faithful spouse, you will see the changes become reality. And you will see his efforts and know if he's sincere or not.<p>Good luck. I think there's hope here.<p>amazingrace

Thanks, Amazinggrace. It is so hard dealing with this. I also feel there is some hope, but I've had hope before and those hopes have been dashed. I've never really known the full extent of the problem, though. <p>We had another talk this morning and I think we are arguing semantics when I focus on the "capable" thing. He expressed his fear that he won't be able to be faithful and how it's not like my eating problem (if I overeat, I just try to do better the next day) -- if he cheats he runs the risk of losing his family so he can't cheat. I think that thought may be putting more pressure on him. He also said this morning that he actually has tried to remain faithful in the past, but always ends up cheating again. Although I guess we are a step ahead now because he's getting professional help and I will never fall into the pattern of blind trust again. Also, I've now found MB and hopefully that will also make a difference. <p>Also interesting in a strange kind of way -- I said not eating was more difficult for me than not cheating would be for him because I'm always faced with food. He just looked at me and said I would be surprised and that he's faced with it all the time, too. I wonder if it's just a certain mindset -- I've never experienced any kind of temptation whatsoever (and I used to work in a building where men would run around with only towels on and some of them liked to flash people -- but they left me alone). I wonder if maybe I just put off a vibe not to bother because I'm not open to it and I sure don't look for it. My husband on the other hand...

De, what you have going for you here is someone who is telling you the truth about how they feel, what they do, what they have done in the past. I know this sounds twisted but your H is showing a great deal of respect and trust in YOU by sharing these feelings and thoughts. (What I wouldn't give to have had at least that much from my WH!) He could be avoiding it altogether, hoping to spare your feelings, hoping to paint himself as something "better" than he actually is. <p>Does he really BELIEVE that some people are incapable of fidelity? I'll go with the majority on this one and agree that it's a cop out, a great excuse to continue. "I want to stop, but I can't..." <p>Comparing infidelity to overeating is the ultimate apples-oranges comparison. You HAVE to eat in order to survive and so you will be faced with a plateful of food three times a day (if you're lucky) and you MUST eat at least some of it in order to go on living. Most of us are faced with the opportunity to cheat at least a few times in our married lives. We do not HAVE to cheat in order to survive. It's a decision we make. <p>I eavesdropped on a telling conversation the other day and the topic was strangely enough, my own H's infidelity. Two married co-workers, both men. One said something about men just being dogs, they do what they do. The other responded, somewhat dumbfounded, " No, they do what they do because they want to do it. They are not like animals, they are human beings who chose to act that way. "<p>Snow

de, listen to your husband. Maybe he is telling you that he doesn't deserve to be trusted. As a FWH I can tell you that that is exectly the case! You should not trust him until you are certain that the two of you are head-over-heels in love again. Is he willing to give you a 100% accounting of his time. <p>Are you willing to hold him accountable, check-up on him, and talk about how he is feeling. You have to in order to help him get through this. I know that I have to be accountable to my wife every day. Openess & Honesty is a strong EN.

Snow, part of my problem is I'm not sure how much to believe. My husband is an accomplished liar. Although when I asked him if he thought he could be faithful I expected him to say "yes" (in which case I would have known he was lying), but he said he didn't know. But he is a self-admitted master manipulator and so I'm constantly second guessing. I think he does believe some people are incapable of kicking their addiction -- but again we may be arguing semantics (incapability vs. unwillingness).<p>B, I don't trust him and never will again. While having this discussion about capability I pretty much straight out told him that the only opportunity he's going to have will be at work -- he'll never be allowed out to party with "the boys" alone again. He is willing to be accountable and I am trying to allow him to talk to me about how he is feeling -- although sometimes it is very hard.

ummm... not being smart here... just something that caught my attention.... wanted to make sure YOU know what you mean...<p>What do you mean by "allow"?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>he'll never be allowed out to party with "the boys" alone again. He is willing to be accountable and I am trying to allow him to talk to me about how he is feeling -- although sometimes it is very hard. <hr></blockquote><p>Could you rephrase that? Perhaps think about it differently? I'm wondering if YOU think that way subconsciously - does he feel that way?

I know I can't "allow" or "disallow". In the past, he would call and ask me if I minded. I would say no, go ahead, have fun. Perhaps I should rephrase it to read -- I will no longer agree when he wants to go out with the guys.<p>Of course there were also lots of times he never even bothered to call and ask if it was okay. He would always just explain it away the next day and I would believe him. If he starts this behavior again, it will of course be a huge red flag!<p>I have a lot of trouble listening to him about how he feels without either flying off the handle or trying to convince him he shouldn't feel that way (witness my new obsession with this "capable" thing). So it is probably accurate to state that in the past I did not allow him to discuss his feelings with me.

Gotcha. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I understand the emotional responses VERY well. GOsh, how I wish I could have controlled my emotions better the few chances I had after D-day. I did GREAT for me, but I wonder what would have happened, had I done an even better job of listening.<p>Keep working on it! If it's anything I wish I had done better, it's that. Listen, pause, think, bite your tongue, repeat back what he says for clarification, accept and respect his opinions and viewpoints, ask him what you can do to help, etc.<p>Good luck!!!