Okay, before I get lamblasted about being "in love" and all it constitutes, I know the difference between being "in love" and truly "loving" someone.<p>My husband and I have been rebuilding for the last 7 years (after my affair). The past 2 (actually 3-4) years have been extremely stressful. Not so much from my affair, but from outside circumstances that affect our marriage. <p>Anyway, the past year has been more than stressful.....a huge move, going from salary to commission, adjusting to new environment, etc. Well, the stress has taken it's toll.<p>I am no longer in love with my husband but I continue to love him. I support him in his endeavors. I know the pitfalls of thinking that you have to be "in love" for a relationship to be successful. I also know that it would be totally unreasonable to expect butterflies in my tummy every day of my life and for there to be passion abounding during stressful times. I understand marriage is work and there will be ups and downs.<p>I am trying to look at this realistically....and having been there and done that....I know that the answer doesn't lie in finding a new a different partner.<p>My point is....I guess we have reached some sort of chasm in our relationship. Talking to my husband does as much good at peeing up a rope. He listens....he hears....the info rattles around in his brain and somewhere and somehow, it gets stuck. What was once genuine concern on his part has become appeasement. Sex is mechanical. He no longer enjoys my company. He is no longer in love with me. Behind his eyes I can see some "stinkin' thinkin'" going on. When I say that I mean this: this man has changed. This man is no longer content (nor happy) with me. Lately I've seen him look at me with such contempt(???). Now, realistically, I know that if I and you and everyone else in a serious relationship will get to the point of no longer being "in love" after many years of togetherness, why am I so worried?<p>I guess the reason I am worried is because I know that it doesn't take being "in love" to love. I can and do accept that. HOWEVER, I'm talking about my husband. I love this man with all my heart and our relationship is very special to me. <p>Remember my quandry? Well, I printed out the EN questionnaire and gave a copy to H and took one for myself. I told him I wasn't going to bug him about filling it out. I filled mine out. He partially filled his out. This has been several weeks ago. I did ask him about it the other night and he said he couldn't find his. So, I found it and put in on the dresser (which is on his side of the bed). He has yet to touch it. He will be going out of town on Sunday and will be gone for several days. I wonder, should I slip it in his suitcase so he will happen across it while away? Would this seem to be covert manipulation? HOW CAN WE DISCUSS OUR NEEDS IF HE WON'T SPEND THE TIME TO COMMUNICATE HIS WITH ME?????<p>I've started reading Passionate Marriage but I"m not enthused about it. Is this just one more attempt ending in failure? My brain is right rattled with "do this and do that" but can 1 person really pull the emotional load of a relationship? For how long?<p>No, I no longer heave with passion and get all googly-eyed when I see my husband. I expect this is a down time in our marriage, and as I said before, I accept it, will weather it, and I look forward to the up times. I'm worried about my husband.<p>Should I tell him that I am no longer "in love" with him but I love him with all my heart? Do y'all think this would be taking a load off of him if he is feeling the same way?<p>A very disheartened,<p>selket<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: selket ]</p>

Hope you dont mind advice from someone still sorting out his own life, but here goes<p>Hmm.. I think its important to tell him that you dont feel there is love in the marriage anymore. I think in the SAA book Harley even says that it is important near the end with the Sue and Greg story. Actually I think if more spouses stood up and TOLD their spouses when they felt out of love it would prevent many affairs. Without knowing the other person doesnt love us, we often discount or can overlook a lull in our relationships I think. Let him know without a doubt HOW serious it is.. us guys can be thick and not get the hint if you dont.<p>What would he say or do if you flat out told him you dont think he is in love with you or you are in love with him anymore and you want to do something about it? Would he be amiable to seeing a MC or doing some things like a marriage retreat?<p>I probably didnt help too much but I hope I gave you ideas....<p>Godbless<p>-HI<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

You just started the "Passionate Marriage?" I'd say you'll have a lot more 'figured' out when you get towards the end.<p>I was sorta ho hum in the beginning... then somewhere in the middle light bulbs were a poppin'.<p>When I read the chapters on emotional fusion and critical mass... it started all coming together.<p>I think when marriages go through this down period, they are hitting critical mass and have the greatest opportunity for growth... but it is personal growth. As Schnarch says, "Why don't you expect it to be this way?" 'cause it is for most people... most marriages.<p>I don't think of it as me carrying the emotional load for the relationship (at least not much)... but more like I have to take care of me... feed me... feed my intellect... feed my emotions... and when I do take care of myself and take focus off of hubby... he kinda straightens up and grows too. (I mean stands tall... NOT behavior).<p>Schnarch is really saying most couples are emotionally fused and are working out stuff from their childhoods... as you work that stuff out and learn to rely less on your partner and more on yourself to 'soothe' yourself and hold yourself together you grow and it oftentimes allows your spouse to grow too.<p>Hugs. This stuff is tough sometimes.
Cali

Hi there,<p>I told my H about 3/4 weeks ago that I am not in love with him anymore. Yes i love him....there are many things to like and love about this man. However, considering all the bad history and the inability to let totally go of past wrong doings, there is no relationship here. I decided a few months ago that I would "radically" honest with my spouse. I cannot fake love...i cannot fake emotion. I just am not good at faking and that in reality is what got me "caught" in my affair. I have real issues with people whom fake with other people that they are liked and then behind their backs....stabbed and hard. SO NO i do not fake anything with my spouse. NOW, i know that sounds harsh...but in my situatin...any kind of fake would lead my spouse into thinking that there are feelings (and they arent there) and gives him a sense of hope (which is not there). <p>One thing to remember is when you are going to reveal things to your spouse...do it in a way that doesnt destroy them or you as a person. Does that make sense? Just think if it was YOU on that side of the fence hearing that the person you love beyond all measure doesnt lvoe you back. <p>I hope this helps some.
mercy

Mercy~<p>Do you know the difference in being "in love" and "love"?<p>I believe our situations are very different. See, I do love my husband and any display of love I show him is...well...just that...a display of love. I have no need to fake love for him nor withold acts of love for fear he may get the wrong impression.<p>I am not in a dead end relationship without hope. I am just in a lull at this time.<p>Thank you, sincerely, for your words. I know you are trying to help me and I truly do appreciate it. Good luck and much personal growth to you!<p>HangingIn~<p>Isn't that what we are all doing? Just trying to work our out our own lives?<p>He would probably agree to go to a retreat...I don't know if he would invest much consideration in a marriage counselor. There's only one way to find out, yes?<p>Cali~<p>I guess I need to keep reading the book, huh?<p>Can I say "fused"....well, I think I can.<p>sel

I wanted to respond as well. I think this ties in with my post on... "Trying to get Desire Back". After 17 years of marriage and 3 kids and the day to day business of life...its hard to FEEL the passion that we once had. <p>I DO love my H.... but I think we both deserve more...and I'm trying to get toward that. I have been making baby steps in that direction....H wants me to travel alot faster!<p>We had this discussion about not being 'inlove'... and it hurt him terribly. I was trying to be honest, yet kind about it. He has said that he doesnt want to be my "brother".
But, I still say that honesty is the best.... sooo, if you are truly feeling that way, a talk would be good...perhaps saying that you think your marriage needs more love between both of you, etc.<p>Good luck......

I guess there is a big diff between u and i..<p>I dont love and i dont have hope.<p>life sucks then u die...hopelessly.<p>mercy

Oh, Mercy~<p>Life does suck.....sometimes ALOT! BUT, I do believe that we weren't put here to suffer through life....maybe trying times.....but not life. <p>Please don't give up hope. Why do you feel hopeless? Surely there is something out there than can help you some way. <p>You will be in my thoughts and prayers.<p>ConfusedMom~<p>I read your thread. Crap....why does everything have to be so much work?????? Why can't we just loll about drinking Mama Knock You Naked Margarita's and the joy (and passion) just envelope us on and hourly basis? And while I'm at it, why can't we have someone who can do our toenails JUST the way we like them and put the dishes away JUST the way we like it and know just the RIGHT spot to caress in just the right way at just the right time???? Why can't we have someone who can read our minds and respond accordingly?????<p>I'm beginning to think the Sweet Potato Queens make pretty durned good sense.<p>Okay, back from fantasyland. (it was nice while it lasted [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Guess what? I have a plan. Hubby is going to be gone next week and this is what I'm gonna do. First off, I'm going to go buy some really good walking shoes. Then I'm gonna go to the store and get the things I need to start the induction phase of the Atkins diet. (When hubby is home, I cook for him and he's a meat and tater's kinda guy). Then, I'm gonna spend next week reading Passionate Marriage by the pool with a hilighter in hand and maybe even have some Fuzzy Navels while doing so (oh, wait, can't do the Fuzzy Navels because of the OJ, so I guess it will be artifically sweetened iced tea). I'm gonna work out at least 3 times next week. Most of all.....I'm gonna work on defusing. I'm gonna get myself all glowy and perky and be on my way (physically and mentally) to a new and improved me. Then when hubby gets home we are gonna have a talk (I'm sure we will talk the 2nd night he's home and not the first).<p>I hate the way I feel physically and mentally and I've just gotta do something about it. I've been psyching myself all week for next Sunday to be my starting point.<p>I think we deserve more as well and who's gonna give it to us but us, right....right?<p>Thanks for the advice and maybe we can compare notes.<p>sel

Hugs Sel...<p>BIG HUGS. That's all.<p>Cali

Sel - you have e-mail (we seem to keep going through these down times together!).<p>Thanks for the inspiration of your last post (you've put your Warrior Princess cap on!).
I just started to read Passionate Marriage too and forced myself to do the treadmill today (but
I am going to buy Sweet Potato Queen this weekend!). <p>Keep positive and hang in there!
Lots of hugs,
JJ

Selket,
Been a Sweet Potato Queen myself for over a decade...there are times I think I learned more from that book than all the self help and marriage recovery books out there! Since you're an avid Queen...do you feel just about like the dog who's gotten used to getting his back scratched with a stick?<p>Yeah, I love my partner very much..we've been together 12 years..."in love"...nope..not at the moment. Yeah, we've learned more about communication..yup, love busters are a thing of the past...but there are some very basic parts of his personality that I realize I've "put up" with for a long time. And now, with the heightened awareness from recovery..I'm not really sure I can anymore.<p>The week off and self nurturing you've got planned sounds like absolute heaven..I'd kill for that right now. Because I need to do something exactly like that...and I'm also going to have to talk to him...just have no idea where the words will come from.<p>Let me know if you come up with anything.
T

Upon reflection...and a long drive home from work tonight...maybe the way to phrase the conversation would be..."these are the things I love about you"...and "these are the things that make it hard to be 'in love' with you."<p>Personally, I plan on reading the "Ya-Ya Sisterhood" books this weekend.
T

I wanna join you, selkat!! that sounds like just what i need.........but what the HELL is a Sweet Potato Princess?? is that something like a Couch Potato Jock?...ha!<p>Good answer Twyla......i like the approach "these are the things i love about you" and "these are the things you gotta work on"....ok, so i adapted it a bit....ha! but seriously, i did like your approach on it.

Hey Twyla~<p>Don't you just laugh out loud reading that book? Are you telling me that you are a TAMMY? How cool!<p>I feel like that dog only I don't feel like the stick is even moving.......you know what I mean.....it's like the stick is on my back and I'm having to rock back and forth myself to get my back scratched....you know what I mean?<p>One of the things that has me confused as heck is the fact that what was never a LB before has all of a sudden become one. That's what I meant by him "changing". I don't know which way is up anymore so I pretty much keep my mouth shut (at this point) and if you haven't guessed, me keeping my mouth shut is a great feat. So, I figured if I spur myself into action and do a lot of thinking and stuff next week, something's bound to pop into my head.<p>I tell you what, you just come on down here.....the ocean is within spitting distance and I have access to a pool. We can loll about together (except when we are getting buff). That sounds like fun. Do you know the last time I had fun? I bet you don't and I don't know either.<p>I usually say what's on my mind and I'm one who appreciates frankness, so I was thinking more along the lines of "E, I love you but I'm not in love with you". I'm thinking I need to be a little more suave than that. I like your suggestion. <p>I've read the Ya-Ya's and they were good.....but they are more like stories whereas SPQBOL is more like a guide or something.<p>Confused~<p>You wanna join? Well, hop on board!!!<p>Here is a website for you to check out but you will appreciate it alot more if you go get the book titled "The Sweet Potato Queen's Book of Love" by Jill Connor-Browne. (maybe I should get paid for all the promoting I do)<p>Sweet Potato Queens Homepage<p>
GASP! A SPQ being the same as a Couch Potato Jock?!?! I don't think so.......there is a state of queenliness about a SPQ that could never be emulated or duplicated by a mere CPJ. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>sel [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Sel Baby!<p>Yesterday was our son's 16th B-day. Been busy around here. I think I went through somthin' similar recently (JJ graciously functioned as the ears listening to my laments) and I ended up on Prozac .. and, I hate to admit it, I feel too good now! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL!<p>These feelings seem to swirl around our heads and hearts periodically.... and, who knows, perhaps it's somewhat hormonal (?) ... there's a thought.<p>Gotta go ... talk to ya soon!<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Oh great Sweet Potato Queen Selket....I just followed your link and they said I have to go buy the book! I really need a laugh this weekend so I'm going to my little local rural YANKEE bookstore to look for it. If they don't have it I will have to drive an hour to the mall. Hey, if I become a Sweet Potato Queen can I get hubby to go to the mall and shopping? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Back to business.....I agree that a simple "I love you but I'm not in love with you" is too direct and will probably end up being a LB. I know it's been a while but do you run the risk of hubby thinking "if she's not in love with me, who is she in love with now?" And add in that he was just away on business and the thought "I'm working so hard trying to give her a good life, etc. and this is what I come home to". He'll might shut you out and not hear you before you even begin. <p>I think you're on the right track working on yourself this week and seeing where that leads.
I read some of Passionate Marriage last night and I'm thinking "self-validate first". But I'm looking for answers too so I better take my own advice....on to the treadmill and reading another chapter! (then to the book store!)<p>Hugs,
JJ

Been reading some of the posts about "no love" in the marriage anymore. Which is my situation. After my wife had affair a few years ago. I told her I would stay for our son's sake. No love has ever returned on my part. It's just not there. She is happy just getting along, and that's about all I want to give her. Some posted something about her husband being "like a brother." I have used that same comparison. I say that it's like I am living with my sister or some other family member. We get along, and talk about our day, we raise kids, but there is nothing intimate about us. No sex, no closeness, not even best friends. Since her affair I am just not interested in her in that way. Hasn't changed for me, afraid it never will. Can't force myself to be "in love" with her.

Selket,
I actually have bought the book about 5 times! Each time I lend it out to a friend it goes into that.."God, I loved it and just had to share it with...."
And the story of the dog..well, I actually posted it on the recovery board where I usually post a couple months back.<p>I am fortunate to have a sister who is also a queen..and am working on my 16 year old daughter..she went off the path a time or two, but has a tiara waiting for her as soon as the "hoochie mama" phase wears out.<p>On a more serious note..I did have the talk with my SO about love vrs "in love" last night....basically his take is that he doesn't have time to make me feel "in love" and it's something I'll have to work on myself. It's a long story..but basically, for the first time in about 10 years, I'm glad I'm not married.
T

Okay... Now that Twla & Leilani have had me poring through "The Passionate Marriage." I will answer your question with another question and a quote.<p>"Why do you have to tell you are no longer "in-love?"<p>pg 310 "The Passionate Marriage"<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>In my workshops and public lecutres I discuss marital hatred. Audience members laugh nervously, realizing they are in a sea of nervous smiles. Most of us feel it's okay to be angry, angry, angry at our partner--as long as we don't hate him or her. Labeling what we feel as hatred can seem like crossing a line beyond which love cannot exist.<p>Sometimes we hate our spouses because we love them. Our love makes us vulnerable to what they can do to us, what they can do to themselves, and what can befall them (and, indirectly, us). We deny our hatred because it hurts our narcissism and makes us feel unloveable (but it's apparently okay as long we're blind--that's normal marital sadism). Why do we attempt to deny when we feel hatred? The superficial reason is that most of us are taught that it is bad, bad, bad to hate. But there's something deeper: children(and immature adults) can't tolerate the most powerful tension of ambivalence towards those they love. Many people believe, "You can't love and hate the same person at the same time." The believe:
*"If you love me, you can't hate me."
*"If you hate me, you can't love me."
*"If I hate you, I must not love you."
*"If I love you, then I can't hate you."<p> the fact is, people who cannot acknowledge their hatred are most pernicious to those they "love." One cannot control what one won't acknowledge exists.<hr></blockquote><p>[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Cali ]</p>

Cali and friends,
Sel and I were discussing via e-mail starting a group book discussion about Passionate Marriage.
I'm sure we can tie it into MB....like how to use it along with MB principles. Any interest?<p>I'm not as far as you in the book but your post has me thinking......as a matter of fact, I hated that my husband had an affair and I hated him after D-Day....but because I loved him I didn't give up on our marriage....make sense?<p>JJ