<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>she went beserk, into total depression when I first mentioned it. It was not easy and was very painful to watch someone u&#8217;ve been with for the last 10 years, the mother of your children and who still care for to be like that. I was worried for my children, I was worried for her. <hr></blockquote><p>To WS who may have felt this way,<p>If it was not easy, very painful, and you were worried about a woman you cared for, why did you commit adultery and seek a divorce from her? Why did you not end your M in a more respectful,less devastating way rather than do this to her?<p>To me, this kind of statement seems the height of arrogance and condescension to the BS. I see this attitude over and over from WS. WS wound the BS and kick them in the gut, then turn around and say, "Gee, I'm sorry that you are hurting, and I want you to know that I really care about you. I'm not going to stop doing what is hurting you, and I'm not sorry I am doing it, but gosh darn, I'm sorry you are suffering." The WS does the thing to cause the hurt, then says he/shes sorry that the victim is hurting???? <p>I'm sorry, I don't get it. Where did morality get lost? WS commit an act of ongoing evil that they have full control over, then they have the nerve to tell the BS they feel sorry for their pain. <p>I have been studying the dynamics of infidelity since my DIL became WS a year ago. The attitude you expressed in this response to naej is one of the hardest for the betrayed to deal with, so utterly disrespectful. Maybe you can shed some light on why the WS condescends to the BS in this manner, why they even think they have the right to do so. <p>Thanks for listening.<p>Estes<p>[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Estes,<p>why did you commit adultery and seek a divorce from her? Why did you not end your M in a more respectful,less devastating way rather than do this to her?<p>We were separated before i had an affair. The reason why we seperated was because i wanted to get away from her. There was no 3rd party involved then. My BS betrayed me (ONS) 3 years before the seperation. We went for conselling and tried to work things out (didn't know of MB then) but it never got better. We went further and further apart. This was when i desperately wanted things to work. She never once indicated or acted as if she wanted things to work. Our marriage spiralled down and it was dead even before we parted 3 years later. <p> It hurt more to be with her than not to be with her. And yeah i thought the seperation was a less devastating way to end the marriage. We didn't have any major arguments prior to the separation, it was almost a natural flow of the way things we going. I was the dad and still acted like one through out the separation. But that was it. My role as a husband was long gone, only the provider of the family to her. <p>I met someone else and fell in love. I didn't expect to and i don't feel guilty over it. I regret that my marriage ended, I regret that I didn’t work hard enough when I still wanted it to work. I regret we didn’t communicate enough to really solve the issues between us before we separated. But I felt that she wanted to separate too. I honestly believed she did not love me in the way a woman should love a man. She never said anything in the 41/2 years that may indicate otherwise. After so long, you will loose the love you have for somebody. <p> Then all of a sudden, when I told her I wanted a divorce – “all the I love yous, always have and always will, how can you do this to us came out, don’t 10 years and 2 kids deserve a second chance?” came out. She wouldn’t come out from her room, cried all day, was on anti-dep and the works. And you know what – it did hurt to see her in that state, and yes I still cared for her. She was so depressed and suffered from serious self esteem problems – guess what she wanted?? – a cosmetic surgery on a certain part of her body. Yeah I did it, paid for her, if that would make her feel better. <p>I ended my relationship with GF, and said ok, move STBX and kids halfway across the world – lets start a new life. Felt that I owed her and the kids that much to try, to sacrifice. But I was not happy, I was hurting, it hurt to be with her and away from my GF then. We were together for abt 8 months (solid NC for 6 months). Maybe I was only pretending to try, I can tell you now I didn’t want to be there. I just had to do it. But at the end I told her that I still loved GF. She goes home, less than 2 months later, found a BF who almost immediately lived with her. They are still together now.<p>But at the end of the day we are not together and divorcing because I didn’t want to let the GF go and I didn’t want to be with her. She blames the love I have for GF as the reason our marriage fell apart. Regardless of what you all think, I believe I have given her a fair share of my penance. And I am still paying for it now. But I can’t control it, I do not love her. <p> The attitude you expressed in this response to naej is one of the hardest for the betrayed to deal with, so utterly disrespectful. Maybe you can shed some light on why the WS condescends to the BS in this manner <p>Why? I was only describing to Naej what I felt. I felt sorry for BS, sorry enough in the end to give up GF and try and work things out with her. How am I condescending? I still cared for her, didn’t want her, the mother of my children, to go into deep depression and be ill. When she found a BF, I was glad for her. What is wrong in feeling that way? <p>Not sure if I’ve answered your question. Hope I did somehow. To tell u the truth I do not have all the answers to some of my own questions. That’s why I still lurk in here, I do not want to repeat the same mistake I made.

Estes,<p>why did you commit adultery and seek a divorce from her? Why did you not end your M in a more respectful,less devastating way rather than do this to her?<p>We were separated before i had an affair. The reason why we seperated was because i wanted to get away from her. There was no 3rd party involved then. My BS betrayed me (ONS) 3 years before the seperation. We went for conselling and tried to work things out (didn't know of MB then) but it never got better. We went further and further apart. This was when i desperately wanted things to work. She never once indicated or acted as if she wanted things to work. Our marriage spiralled down and it was dead even before we parted 3 years later. <p> It hurt more to be with her than not to be with her. And yeah i thought the seperation was a less devastating way to end the marriage. We didn't have any major arguments prior to the separation, it was almost a natural flow of the way things we going. I was the dad and still acted like one through out the separation. But that was it. My role as a husband was long gone, only the provider of the family to her. <p>I met someone else and fell in love. I didn't expect to and i don't feel guilty over it. I regret that my marriage ended, I regret that I didn’t work hard enough when I still wanted it to work. I regret we didn’t communicate enough to really solve the issues between us before we separated. But I felt that she wanted to separate too. I honestly believed she did not love me in the way a woman should love a man. She never said anything in the 41/2 years that may indicate otherwise. After so long, you will loose the love you have for somebody. <p> Then all of a sudden, when I told her I wanted a divorce – “all the I love yous, always have and always will, how can you do this to us came out, don’t 10 years and 2 kids deserve a second chance?” came out. She wouldn’t come out from her room, cried all day, was on anti-dep and the works. And you know what – it did hurt to see her in that state, and yes I still cared for her. She was so depressed and suffered from serious self esteem problems – guess what she wanted?? – a cosmetic surgery on a certain part of her body. Yeah I did it, paid for her, if that would make her feel better. <p>I ended my relationship with GF, and said ok, move STBX and kids halfway across the world – lets start a new life. Felt that I owed her and the kids that much to try, to sacrifice. But I was not happy, I was hurting, it hurt to be with her and away from my GF then. We were together for abt 8 months (solid NC for 6 months). Maybe I was only pretending to try, I can tell you now I didn’t want to be there. I just had to do it. But at the end I told her that I still loved GF. She goes home, less than 2 months later, found a BF who almost immediately lived with her. They are still together now.<p>But at the end of the day we are not together and divorcing because I didn’t want to let the GF go and I didn’t want to be with her. She blames the love I have for GF as the reason our marriage fell apart. Regardless of what you all think, I believe I have given her a fair share of my penance. And I am still paying for it now. But I can’t control it, I do not love her. <p> The attitude you expressed in this response to naej is one of the hardest for the betrayed to deal with, so utterly disrespectful. Maybe you can shed some light on why the WS condescends to the BS in this manner <p>Why? I was only describing to Naej what I felt. I felt sorry for BS, sorry enough in the end to give up GF and try and work things out with her. How am I condescending? I still cared for her, didn’t want her, the mother of my children, to go into deep depression and be ill. When she found a BF, I was glad for her. What is wrong in feeling that way? <p>Not sure if I’ve answered your question. Hope I did somehow. To tell u the truth I do not have all the answers to some of my own questions. That’s why I still lurk in here, I do not want to repeat the same mistake I made.

painforever,<p>Why then did you not file for divorce soon after you separated? I thought you separated when you took a job far away. Did you wife know that the reason for the separation was that you couldn't stand to be near her, or did you lead her to believe it was merely career-related?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But I felt that she wanted to separate too. I honestly believed she did not love me in the way a woman should love a man.<hr></blockquote><p>You didn't discuss whether or not she wanted to separate? You thought you could read her mind?<p>No, you don't lose your love just because someone has not told you that they love you for 4.5 years. My H has been living with the OW for over three years, and I love him just as much as I ever did. Love is permanent.<p>[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</p>

To me, being separated still means you are MARRIED. Being married means it's still adultery and it's still very wrong. I hate when people think it's 'ok' because they no longer live together. To me, that's a cop out.

painforever,<p>I appreciate your reply. Thank you. As always there is more to a situation than is evident on the surface. Obviously, your STBX played a big role in the breakdown of the R. It is so sad that people do not communicate effectively. If we don't let others know what is truly in our hearts and minds, how can people respond appropriately.<p>The situations that upset me so are the ones in which the WS is actively involved in the A, yet saying they care about the BS. There is no logic to that.<p>I'm sorry that your family has had such a difficult 5 years. Yes, one of the strong points of MB is that it can help people communicate more effectively in hopes of avoiding situations such as yours.<p>Wishing you well in your future relationships,
Estes<p>[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
painforever,
The situations that upset me so are the ones in which the WS is actively involved in the A, yet saying they care about the BS. There is no logic to that.<hr></blockquote><p>Estes has it. It is TOTUROUS to have your WS tell you they love you and miss you and are soooooo sorry for hurting you BUT they just have to be with this other person, and continue to do so.<p>I agree with MaggieRose, PainForever, regardless if you were separated, you were still married. You wife's reaction to you wanting a divorce, IMHO, was because she wasn't given all the information to begin with. It sounds as tho you "assumed" she no longer loved you without asking her or talking to her about it. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Written by PainForever:
I regret we didn&#8217;t communicate enough to really solve the issues between us before we separated. But I felt that she wanted to separate too.<hr></blockquote><p>The more I read your responses on this thread (example: quote up above) it appears you left your wife out of the loop on quite a few of your feelings. And didn't include her in them until it was too late (i.e., you fell in love and wanted a divorce).<p>I suspect she may not have even known the separation WAS a separation in terms of a step to end the marriage. And perhaps thought it was a worked related move for your career growth. Is that true? Were you "legally" separated? Did you and your wife sit down and discuss that this move you made was not only because of your career, but also a move away from the marriage and possibly a divorce? Or did you just "assume" she knew this because you felt unloved? <p>Jo<p>[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Resilient,<p>RE: I suspect she may not have even known the separation WAS a separation in terms of a step to end the marriage. And perhaps thought it was a worked related move for your career growth. It that true?<p>As I recall, he has told us before that this is what happened.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Written by Painforever:
To tell u the truth I do not have all the answers to some of my own questions. That&#8217;s why I still lurk in here, I do not want to repeat the same mistake I made.<hr></blockquote><p>Well, I have to tell you that your story has struck a chord with me. My ex-H assumed so many things, but alot of his "assuming" was self-serving. In retrospect, I see he intentionally left me out of his feelings and hidden plans of leaving myself and our marriage without ever telling me he felt unloved or un-admired or un-appreciated. BUT ... the difference in your story is he had his GF long before we were separated and all his plans were geared to being with her. She was the catalos of our marriage ending, by his own admittance.<p>Painforever, I would offer that in order to never repeat the same mistakes, IMVHO, I suggest you understand that communication is KEY. Each spouse's feelings are valid but you cannot assume the other spouse feels the same as you.<p>To find out what they feel you have to communicate it. You have to share it, it's your obligation and responsibility as their spouse. And no matter how hurtful you think you're being in sharing how you feel (RADICAL HONESTY), it is so much kinder and caring and considerate to be honest early on then to harbor your feelings until it's what you consider "TOO LATE". <p>Bottom line, you cannot know what your spouse feels based on what you're feeling. You two are not Siamese twins.<p>I wish you luck, and pray you find peace.<p>Love,
Jo

Hello Everyone,<p>I am feeling bad that my question to painforever has put him in a personal spotlight when what I meant was to ask a general WS question. <p>I am going to delete his name from the topic line. I apologize, painforever, for unwanted attention I may have brought to you. That was not my intent.<p>The comments brought up as a result of my question are good ones. I'd also like to hear comments on "He's not a bad man.", referring to naej's H on her thread. I know it's been tossed around before. I know the philosophy of - The person's not bad, the behavior is.", but I think that's kind of a cop out. The effect on the BS is the same. <p>Maybe the adjective should be changed. He/ She is a _____ man/woman. Then you can insert your WS adjective of choice -lying, untrustworthy, weak, thoughtless, immoral, selfish, conniving, dishonorable, disrespectful - take your pick. Then you by-pass the bad person issue and get to the heart of the matter. What difference is there between a good person with bad behavior and a bad person? Maybe it's that a good person may recognize the consequences of the bad behavior and therefore change. A truly bad person does not change and persistes in the bad behavior.
In that case, Mr. naej or any other such person is a bad man. Then comes the issue of mental illness and chemical addiction, and the confusion goes on.<p>I think I will start another thread for this discussion. <p>Estes

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Estes wrote:
Then you by-pass the bad person issue and get to the heart of the matter. What difference is there between a good person with bad behavior and a bad person? Maybe it's that a good person may recognize the consequences of the bad behavior and therefore change. A truly bad person does not change and persistes in the bad behavior.<hr></blockquote><p>Morning Estes!<p>IMHO, I believe for either a bad or good person the presence of "Empathy" for others plays an enormous roll in whether or not someone intentionally acts badly. That, along with aspects of maturity and impulse control are definite personality traits associated with someone who may consider the action but decide against it.<p>Just my 2 cents worth.<p>Jo<p>p.s. Estes, I hope things are better for your son. I hope he has found a place where he is strong again and feels some joy in his life.<p>[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hi Jo,<p>Son is in better spirits even though the M is still in jeopardy. Has GS three days a week. Trying to work on being able to communicate with each other without LBing. He has good support at church. I will get to see S and GS on Mother's Day. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Our D is getting married in Dec., so that will be a pleasant diversion. She already has HN,HN.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I wrote a note to DIL telling her I cared about her and always will. ThornedRose has been helping me understand the mind set of sexual abuse victims and how it colors their behavior.<p>I started a new thread about character. Check it out. You continue to be very helpful to people here. Thank you.<p>Estes

Resilient,<p>Estes has it. It is TOTUROUS to have your WS tell you they love you and miss you and are soooooo sorry for hurting you BUT they just have to be with this other person, and continue to do so.<p>You are right. I don't think you can continue hurting a person and tell them that you love and miss the person because you obviously don't. I didn't and i didn't tell her i did.<p>I agree with MaggieRose, PainForever, regardless if you were separated, you were still married. You wife's reaction to you wanting a divorce, IMHO, was because she wasn't given all the information to begin with. It sounds as tho you "assumed" she no longer loved you without asking her or talking to her about it. <p>I wasn't given all the information either. And yes, I did ASSUME she no longer loved me, it was the only conclusion i could draw from her actions over 3 years. <p>The more I read your responses on this thread (example: quote up above) it appears you left your wife out of the loop on quite a few of your feelings. And didn't include her in them until it was too late (i.e., you fell in love and wanted a divorce).<p>After expressing your feelings a few times and nothing changes you tend to get a bit discouraged. I was afraid to push very hard because i feared being rejected, and as hard as you may find this to belief, i feared i would loose my family, my life. This goes back 5-6 years ago.<p>RE: I suspect she may not have even known the separation WAS a separation in terms of a step to end the marriage. And perhaps thought it was a worked related move for your career growth. It that true? <p>Zorweb is right. That is true. But to an extend she knew why i went away. I didn't have to go 12,000 miles away. She never onced stopped me. <p>Painforever, I would offer that in order to never repeat the same mistakes, IMVHO, I suggest you understand that communication is KEY. Each spouse's feelings are valid but you cannot assume the other spouse feels the same as you. <p>I could not agree more Resilient. It was definitely the major cause of my marital breakdown. I understand now just how important communication is in a relationship. <p>Estes,<p>No worries.

Thank you for responding to me, PainForever.<p>As I admitted, your story hit some very sensitive chords with me. I apologize if I was inappropriately hard or judgemental of you. Your responses have been very kind and respectful. I appreciate your patience and sincerely thank you for your time.<p>I really do wish you peace and hope you find happiness in your future.<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Painforever- hi this is Naej, just came across this thread-didn,t know Estes had picked up on your reply to me--
WELL GOSH--just been so weird reading your post/explanations, you must be related somehow to my H in your thinking that is--so much of what you say reminds me of things he was saying.
I have almost decided to give up becos I don,t think H will ever find the words to tell me what happened to US, the bit about the provider seems to fit my H he said to someone that kids had all been educated IT was his turn now-
I would give my very soul to know why he didn,t talk to me..I thought I was there for him.
You cannot begin to know how it feels to be shut out to be left wondering why??? esp when the OW is a tramp...
To feel your kids pain and sorrow for this never goes away, constant reminders. He has no contact with his if you remember, and someone else questioned like I do whether by their hanging on to hope is causing more pain for them.
Sometimes I feel like we should hold a funeral service for the man we loved who just walked away and "died". C say we all would have coped better if that had been the case.
So many have made such valid points about the adultery point and such that I shan't even go there.
I asked my H why no D, he replied he knows I don't want one & he has no plans to remarry?? Is he for real--considering my feelings.??
He just cannot talk to me about his feelings I am supposed to accept that by his leaving we are over?? His attempts at reconcilliation have been O!
I am supposed to just accept, be the supportive
loving wife I think I was and let go--
I texted last night to tell him his offer is not acceptable re money, and that I can,t go thr with house sale...He phoned this evn 9.10pm to tell me hes just got in from work..very busy etc I asked why he hadn,t replied to a letter I sent asking for help to do jobs with house, first he didn,t know what letter?then said did I want a letter acknowledging it?? still no mention of contents..
just that I had lots of time to think about "things " he did not as was always working.
Well I feel guilty for adding to his stress!!
Yet he wasn,t too busy to plan A, +Holidays/lies about such, find a place for them to rent etc.
WHY do I feel guilty for trying to get some answers as to why 3 kids no longer have a Dad and I have lost the only love I ever had??
Sometimes wonder WHO has MLC..guess we all do.
IS there anything you would do diff re your wife?
Could she have done anything that would have stopped you from pusuing the path you took and all the heartache it caused, just desp, for some insight.
I have to add I have never looked at another man..(cud have and I was briefly flattered BUT M love isn,t just for the moment or excitement of a fling)
One thing that hurts so much amongst the millions is that I had hopes for US, yes we had done our bit for the kids -no hardship at all all given and done with love, but it was nice to think our time was coming round again, to be as it was in someways b4 children, thats when H left he may be stressed, working hard etc all his doing but HE IS NOT ALONE, I wake alone every morning for these past 2yrs almost, and tho I don,t work like he does, I don,t have anyone to hold me, that is so painful.
Well I am done I cud go on but said too much, Nxx

This is just a PS to last post.
I had to say cowardly comes to mind with my H, think he beleives that by just saying nothing makes my /our pain less.
He has always avoided confrontation--- did you feel like this that it was easier? becos if so PLEASE NOTE....nothing is worse than the not knowing why?? As for the falling in love bit with OW its a cope out isn,t it.
Your A isn,t same as my H his OW is a W,,,-local reputation for being village bike don,t know if that will be edited out but true..BUT love is blind they say and H must be deaf as well.
vent is now over, apologies in advance. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I texted last night to tell him his offer is not acceptable re money, and that I can,t go thr with house sale... <hr></blockquote><p>Are you serious, naej? You think you will stay in the house? Boy, I hope so. <p>Estes

Naej,<p> I asked my H why no D, he replied he knows I don't want one & he has no plans to remarry?? Is he for real--considering my feelings?? <p>How can that be? It does not make sense at all. He has a totally different life now and you have not been included in it for the past 1-2 years ( and that’s a long time), am I right? Its not right for him to say that cause if he cares for your well being, the least he could do is put an end to this limbo and torture you are living in. Now that does not mean he will come back to you, but it means him explaining his actions, talking about your past relationship, the ‘whys’ and the ‘hows’, his feelings now. Also he needs to give you the opportunity to express your feelings, your explanations. I think you have a lot bottled up in there. <p> He just cannot talk to me about his feelings I am supposed to accept that by his leaving we are over?? His attempts at reconciliation have been O! <p>He is not being very responsible; he does not want to deal with the consequences of his actions in you and the children because its going to be painful for him to do so. I think he wants to swipe it under the carpet and hopes that it will go away and forgotten. That seemed to work for the last one year. He does not want this part of reality to spoil whatever it is he has now. But it’s still there at the back of his mind, and it will slowly creep out. <p> You cannot begin to know how it feels to be shut out to be left wondering why??? <p>In a way, you are enabling things to remain under the carpet by not asking anything. You have the right to demand for answers, you need to do so to move on. You don’t have to feel guilty, he has to bear some of the suffering as well.<p> He has no contact with his if you remember, and someone else questioned like I do whether by their hanging on to hope is causing more pain for them. <p>Is it not them who refuses to see him? Or is it the other way around?<p> He has always avoided confrontation--- did you feel like this that it was easier? <p>Yeah it was easier, I hate personal confrontations. But there is only so long you can avoid them cause it eats you up inside. You will come to a point when you just need to get it out of your system. For me that was the only way to really move on. However, the threshold depends on individuals and the circumstances they are in. <p> IS there anything you would do diff re your wife? <p>Depends on how long back, but if you mean during the separation, I think I would have ended it sooner, would have saved us a lot of pain. The 8 month attempted reconciliation period was not very pleasant. One of the worst times of my life. Everyday I had to convince myself why I was doing this, I had to force myself to go one step forward, the internal battle between doing the ‘right thing’ vs what I want. But really, at the end of the day, I needed that to happen, to see what is was like. Perhaps it didn’t work because I came back for the wrong reasons. <p> Could she have done anything that would have stopped you from pursuing the path you took and all the heartache it caused <p>Once again depends on how far back. But since D-Day, I am not sure, I guess not. Her reaction was different to yours though. She demanded answers, she demanded that I gave up GF and start back life with her, she wanted a lot of things, her way of making me pay for my wrongs. She went for a cosmetic surgery not long after D-Day. At that point I didn’t care, she could have anything she wanted, things didn’t seem to matter to me. But I could not give her intimacy, at both emotional and physical level. It added a lot of strain in our relationship. There were a lot arguments at first, then we gradually slipped back to pre-separation conditions. In the end I decided I can’t continue anymore. <p>Be strong Naej. Wish you all the best.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong>Maybe the adjective should be changed. He/ She is a _____ man/woman. Then you can insert your WS adjective of choice -lying, untrustworthy, weak, thoughtless, immoral, selfish, conniving, dishonorable, disrespectful - take your pick. Then you by-pass the bad person issue and get to the heart of the matter. What difference is there between a good person with bad behavior and a bad person? Maybe it's that a good person may recognize the consequences of the bad behavior and therefore change. A truly bad person does not change and persistes in the bad behavior. Estes</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Don't you think these adjectives could describe just about any person? Even a BS? I know a lot of "good" people that have some or all of these flaws. We are human. We sin. In God's eyes, no sin is greater than any other - they are all the same to him, sin, period. Of course, as humans, we "grade" sin - some being worse than others. My point is, no one is perfect. A WS, a BS or just a regular person can lie, cheat, be selfish - maybe they are not as obvious, but everyone is capable. I have been thinking about As in general. Given different circumstances, perhaps the BS would have been the one to have the affair? Most WSs say after they end their affair that they can't believe they did that. They go against everything they believed in - I know I did. Even though my XH didn't have an affair during our marriage, I think the potential was always there. If I hadn't had an A and our marriage continued.....perhaps b/c neither of our EN were being met and things just continued to deteriorate, had the circumstances permitted, had a certain person had come along, he could have an A eventually. It seems like a lot of BS posts indicate that they would never have done that. Maybe. Perhaps you think you wouldn't - I didn't think I would - but I think we have to admit we are all human. We all make mistakes and it is a possibility. Haven't you (you being in a general sense) done something you regret? Haven't you done something you know is wrong, but did it anyway? I think we all have - A or not - we all have done something. <p>Just a thought!

NC20505,<p>Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope that your reconciliation with your XH is successful.
In case you don't know my situation, my son is BS.<p>NC20505: Don't you think these adjectives could describe just about any person? <p>Estes: Certainly. Here, I was looking for a way to describe WS, specifically, in terms other than "bad."<p>
NC20505: Given different circumstances, perhaps the BS would have been the one to have the affair? <p>Estes: Dr. Harley makes this point in his writings. Yet, there are people who, regardless of the circumstances, refuse to get involved in A.<p>
NC20505: In God's eyes, no sin is greater than any other - they are all the same to him, sin, period.

Estes: I must admit ignorance of the scripture that tells us this. I have been taught that God does have a top ten, the Ten Commandments. And in the top ten are "Do not commit adultery." and "Do not lie."<p>Best wishes,
Estes