HI ALL,<p>I was wondering if there is still hope if my WH and the OW are madly in love with each other? The think they are destined to be together. They think their whole A is a story that was meant to be. And that they will truly be together one day. The right way.<p>Should I still hang on? WH is still at home and hasnt filed. But I think he has plans. And treats me like he hates the sight of me. But I am working The heck out of plan A. Feeling better about myself in the process.<p>PI

Q: "I was wondering if there is still hope if my WH and the OW are madly in love with each other?"<p>A: ABSOLUTELY!! If you don't have it, get and read "Surviving an Affair". The couple described in the book are a TYPICAL, TEXTBOOK example of maybe 90% of what you see on this forum. Sue, Jon and Greg... I know 'em well!<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html

My H and his OW told each other dozens of times on the phone and in emails that the were "in-love." The were destined. They were soulmates.<p>IGNORE THEM. My H will now tell you he was in fantasy mode. He's not sure what was up w/ him and Princess. It looked good and felt good... then. Fantasyland is fun for awhile... but then the real world came crashing down.<p>DO YOUR THING. Get strong. Focus on YOU. Don't discuss the A. Don't discuss divorce. Move on. Let him bring it up. Eliminate lovebusters. Figure out what your H's top needs are. (I did this by finding out what attracted him to OW). Make as many deposits as possible. <p>You can only fix your half of the relationship. Focus on what you can do for you.<p>Cali

The think they are destined to be together. They think their whole A is a story that was meant to be. And that they will truly be together one day. The right way. If they didn't believe this then there wouldnt be a reason to continue the A. I think all of us BS's have heard these lines, or a variation of them, at some point. My W used to tell me crap like "we are soul mates", "it was destiny, how else can you explain it", "he cant live without me", "we know exactly what the other is thinking even when we are apart" Oh, how the list goes on and on. I herd these things from WS from DDay (Sept '01) until just last month, now she tells me that she thinks he was just using her and never was committed to her, not really soulmate material, is it!<p>Its just fog-ese, just mindless dribble that shouldn't be taken seriously. I see that you registered in March of this year, is that DDay? If so, then that would explain H's behavior. He treats you badly because you are ruining his fun, WAH! If saving your M is your goal, then you are in for the ride of your life. Don't make any decisions about ending your M yet, its just too soon. What have your read about A's and how YOU can recover from them? There is a wealth of information out there.

my WH said he was in love with her too. Said she was perfect... bleh blah blah. Made me ill to hear it. The truth of it was... she made his ego swell, and his depression have a reason (~me~) and made life look super special. ALL unrealistic! *laughs* Fantasyland is a perfect way to sum it up. Hubby no longer seriously thinks he was 'really in love with her' ... thank goodness, but that took months before he woke up!<p>Hang in there..... do what you can to show him you know how to meet his needs, and make sure you meet you own. <p>Take care
J~

P I,<p>You are not alone and their A is not unique by any means. Hang in there, learn as much as you can about MB.<p>-RH-

Thanks All,<p>That helps knowing that this is typical behavior. I was starting to feel like there wasnt much hope. I NEED to get that book!!!!!!!!!!! I tried last week at 3 book stores and they were out. I will try again this week. I want my M to work so bad . I will try my best plan A. So far it has been a rough road. I have the biggest problem w/LBing. Im learning how to control it and doing pretty good just these past few days. I need to stay strong and focused. I feel like Im headed the right direction, because I feel myself letting go and not worrying about my WH as much. But I know I still love him and I know I still want this M to work. We may have to move and WH was looking at places for US. I take it as a good sign? I am trying to work the system and give WH what OW is giving him. And boy I tell ya, I have teeth marks on my tounge and lips (holding back the LB's). Its working. Im not letting him get to me. He even snapped at me last night about the bills and I just said(very calmly) "you are right". He gave me the craziest look. It was so funny . Before I would have fed into his additude and we would have been in a fight.<p>Anybody had this situation and had the tables turned? WS falling back in love with BS?<p>PI

P I,<p>You could get the book from this site and rush oder them. Also you could go to amazon.com. For success story, try lostva .<p>Hang in there -RH-

Hi there PI,<p>>>> Im not letting him get to me. He even snapped at me last night about the bills and I just said(very calmly) "you are right". He gave me the craziest look <<<<p>You know, I HATE this situation (yours and mine) - but hey, there are some moments that would be funny if it weren't so sad, eh? I've had ones like this too... My motto has been "give WW absolutely no reason to be mad at me." For all of her revision of our past - at least during the past 8 months she's had NOTHING to beat me with... well nothing big enough to cause any long-term damage! In talked to Steve, he noted that's the beauty of Plan A: they run out of stuff to harp on and kind of have to start dealing with things - by default! It's also quite interesting to immediately diffuse a situation simply by agreeing with them... no matter how trivial or absurd. Of course, doing it all of the time can be doormatish, but in the right situations, it's a great way to automatically diffuse their anger.<p>>>> WS falling back in love with BS <<<<p>I think it happens frequently. Once the fog clears, often-times WS forgets much of the past X months (however long they were in fantasy-land).

My FWS is back in love with me. Not only was he crazy about the FOW, she's a co-worker as well, and still is, so no contact has never been possible. But no personal contact or conversation is possible.<p>It took some time--2+ years (really I'm not trying to discourage you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ), some difficulty--7 separations pretty much sums that up.<p>But my marriage is nearly at 2 years of recovery and my H told me 3 times this morning--before getting out of bed, that he loves me.<p>Hang in there. Plan A is good.

Hi PI,<p>Ok, now that we know that your H is in fog and lives near the fog (SF), I am beginning to wonder if something bad is in the air around here. <p>Yep, me too. I heard those words of pain. My H said that he and OW got along so well that if he had met her before me he would have married her. Yet what I saw was a reverse babble gold digger with a flair for talking. I still see that and now so does he. Except he still things she would have spent bucks on him.. Funny thing, it has been over a year and I don't think she even spent over $200.00 to his over $4000.00 and then some. Ya know? <p>So for those A's that think they are soooo in love, then I say, let then prove it. In a sense, I told the WS (his earned title at the time), that if this love was soooo real, then he would be prepared to give up all for it. Ruin, life and family. Why not? It is REAL!!! In other words, I challenged my H to make it a reality. <p>May not be the MB way but that is when and why I went to plan B. I was also mentally ready for that A to be his real Love. I knew better but if he wanted to believe in fairy tails then he needed to live like one and let the whole world see how silly it was. I was no longer going to 'enable' him by trying to save him from making himself a fool. <p>Funny thing, the more I tried to get rid of him the more he stayed. Finally got himself to the point that he saw the OW more for what she is and that kept her in the LBing roll.<p>In fact, this OW now claims she will never get involved with a MM. I feel soo guilty, I feel like I should warn all mothers with sons in this area so that they can protect them from this psyco babble nutcase of an OW. <p>How did I know this A was going to go kaput? Well, in trying to defend herself, OW told stories about how in her past, a boy she once dated dumped her because his family did not like her. She stated that she does not know why?!?!? Hm..........well the WS told me this, thinking I was dumb enough to feel sorry for her like he did, but as a mother of a SON, I could easily see how selfish she was even as a young adult (which was over 20 years ago (she is 45+). <p>Anyway, let's make sure this evil PBR is not spawning OW followers in this area. K? LOL!!!
[img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>WS falling back in love with BS <hr></blockquote><p>It absolutely happens. If you could read my threads from early January you'd see how "hopelessly" in love my WW and OM were. It was the classic stuff out of romance novels. "Soulmate", "too right to be wrong", "waited my whole life for you", blah, blah, blah. It is all fantasyland, fogese, teenage baloney.<p>You just need to make yourself the best P I you can be. No LB. No relationship talk. Let your WH "go", but continue loving. That is the hardest thing. But at this stage they don't want you trying to control them. You let them go, they get over the fantasy and fogese, and hopefully, prayerfully, they come back.<p>Thankfully, with the grace of God, my WW has come back. The following is a sampling of the notes she has sent me in the last few days:<p>"Good morning, I am really glad you are my husband."<p>"Hey you. I love you."<p>"Good morning, babe. Thank you for loving me. I love you".<p>"I am happy we are us."<p>"Good morning my handsome husband."<p>"Hey babe. Smile, I love you".<p>Get the picture? This MB stuff really works. Your WH doesn't really want to be in an A, he wants to be in a "good" marriage. Give him that and he'll be back.<p>Good luck and God Bless.

P I - ditto all the others.<p>Think of him as intoxicated. You are not hearing anything that all the rest of the BSs haven't heard. And it'll probably just get curiouser and curiouser.<p>For example, my WS looked me straight in the eye and cooed "I'm in love with <OM>." <p>Me: Oh, so you admit you're having an affair?<p>Her: No, I said I'm in love - I'm NOT having an affair. What about that don't you understand?<p>See what I mean, P I?<p>WAT<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

There sure is. The "in love" thing is often just infatuation that fades over time. My H also swore that he found his soulmate, was madly in love, had never loved me, deserved to be happy for once, etc. Now he looks back and is shocked that he ever said any of it. <p>Once the reality sinks in, the chemistry wears off and they can see the relationship for what it really is. Very few of these affairs ever make it to anything permanent, like less than 10% I believe.<p>The good news is that with counseling and time, the WS can find those 'in love' feelings for their spouse again.<p>Good luck

I understand about the breathless "in-love" declarations but my H has said twice that he is not in love with OW. He has given me no other infor. about A. I guess it's more fog?

Thanks everyone,<p>Your replys help keep me on track. It is so hard to stick by your BS when they think they are in love w/someone else.<p>Let me clear something: My WH did not tell me these things to my face. I got the info from my secrect sorce. I cant say ( he might be a luker). He totally denys EVERYTHING! He says its totally over. But its not. So I am letting go. I can see how the LBing really pushes him to OW even more. I am trying my hardest to be the best PI i can be with out being a doormat. He treats me like he hates me. Hates the site of me. That hurts so bad. I feel like he cant wait to get DV. I found out hes been seeking legal advise. I dont know exactly what. I feel like he has a plan. And I know he does with OW. So what do I do? just let him go but still love him. How about when he treats me like poop? Do I even try EN's at this point? He cant stand me and it hurts when he rejects me. He picked a fight the other night. I didnt even participate. And somehow I was wrong and he was right.<p>Sometimes I just want to through in the towel. But when I get back on track, I want to stay and not give up on my H.<p>I cant believe how much I love him. Through all of this and I still love him so much. I can see how he is not him self. Everyone sees it. I hope the fog lifts soon. I hope we dont get to the point of seperation. <p>Please pray for us. I have been praying my but off. This whole A has brought me so much closer to God. I needed that.<p>Look for my poem under poems. Called Unconditional Love.<p>Thanks,
Take care everyone,
PI

Hope you don't mind a word from someone who's not around so much anymore. Someone emailed me and pointed me in this direction.<p>Don't worry so much about his needs. When you're spouse is in love with someone else (and I differ from some others in that I believe that the feelings are real - not necessarily permanent, but real), they won't give you the opportunity to meet needs anyway. And your trying to seems like a lovebuster. And remember, Harley rule #1 - Your SPOUSE defines the lovebusters, not you.<p>I'm a firm believer in Plan A. The Harley method can work. For me, Plan A simply means that you get to know yourself and work very hard to become the person you were meant to be - for yourself more than anything else. It also means that you treat your spouse AND yourself with honor and respect. And that's NOT being a doormat! Gary Smalley defines honor as something you give someone because YOU CHOOSE TO....it doesn't matter if they want it or even deserve it. We all promised this when we married. It's not kissing butt. It's acknowledging the wonderful things about someone, past or present, and treating them with dignity for THOSE reasons, not necessarily in repayment for what they're doing at this moment. And it's powerful. You're not winning him back, you're treating him with dignity and respect. There's nothing wrong with that....and it's not so blessed exhausting. You don't have to continue to second guess yourself "will this work, will that work?". You just treat him with honor and respect. It's a gift you convey to him - nothing more - expecting nothing in return. You will be amazed at the strength that gift gives YOU.<p>Robert left me to live with his soulmate. They planned a life, taught her daughter to call him "Daddy", saw a lawyer about divorce and his adopting the wee one, opened joint bank accounts, put her name on the cars, etc. with his, she became part of his family - she BECAME his family! She shopped with his mom and sister, was part of all holidays, etc. She was the woman of his dreams.<p>More than 2 years now since he came home. And, in answer to your last question, it is VERY possible for a WS to fall back in love with their spouse - madly in love. It pretty much takes the same stuff it took when they fell in love the first time. It really is that simple. It's much MUCH easier if the OP is out of the picture, but it's not impossible if they're not. Heck, he fell in love with HER with you in the picture, right? PT was never out of the way with Robert and I and Robert fell in love with me. Takes longer, absolutely. But it's strong, much stronger than before we started.<p>Now, before I'm flamed, I'm not recommending this as the best way (although it was for me), but just trying to keep you from getting discouraged or thinking it'll NEVER work if all conditions aren't perfect. 99% of it is your attitude. You have an amazing amount of power in this situation. More than you'll ever realize.<p>Hang in there. This is a rough ride, but you can do it. And, no matter what, you'll gain so much for yourself in the process. From WAYYYY on the other side - it's worth every bit.<p>Love,<p>Lori

Hi Everyone-<p>I am new to this site, and I have just finished reading all of your posts and all I can say is thank you. You all have giving me the positive attitude, the hope and strength to keep working on my M, reading about your sitch. My H told me in Sept. 01 about the OW, and friend mine & a co-worker. Tried to break it off with her, but couldn't. He is still at home, we both agreed it isn't the right time to break up the family. We have 2 beautiful children who we want to protect from all this. Anyway, since D_Day we have been really talking alot, finding out why this all came about etc.. We have talked more about us and or R, now than we ever have before. But, he still tells me he "wants to see her", he has never really told me he "loves her", but I found and phone message of her telling him that 3 or 4 times. We are really "best friends" now, I haven't brought up R talk in a week and it seems to be working, felt really down this weekend, ut after being with all of you I feel strong agian. Anyway I'm babbling. Thanks again for the great hopefullness (is that is grammically correct), keep it up!!!

hey,<p>Not a good day. Im sooo sick. flu. and my h is being an a**. he was snooping and found all my mb budies i chat with. then said"judgeing from what you tell them, you still dont understand me, blah,blah,blah." more cop-outs. still in contact with ow. he doesnt have my sorce. i was careful not to post that info. i told him, go ahead and snoop all you want. all you will find is that i have nothing to hide and all ive been doing is getting help for myself , trying to understand you, and save our marriage. (this was all via e-mail, probably better this way)no LBing.<p>He treats me like he hates me so much. I dont know what to do. sometimes i want to stick it out and sometimes it hurts too much to stay. when i think of all he has done and shared w/ow, it hurts so bad. he keeps for fighting for ending our marriage. and totally taking the focus off of the A. he hasnt even gone to counseling or taken any real steps to try. he say he has. he made an appointment to talk to our priest. but i know he wont tell the whole story(that he has plans w/ow) he wants an ok to get a DV. hes already looking for legal advise.<p>Help me guys. help me to keep my focus.i need alot of help today.<p>you know, right after d-day,h was totally sick all weekend. and i took such good care of him. he didnt even want me to leave his side.i didnt unless i had to take care of the baby or cook for him or run to the store for him.And now that I am sooo sick,cant do anything. he is so irratated. doesnt want to take care of me. i have to ask for things. he tells me you need to get better now cuz i need to mow the lawn and somebody needs to watch the baby. he never used to be like this. he used to baby me when i needed it. totally bend over backwards for me when i was sick. it hurts when hes like this. i wish my old H was back. i dont even know who this is. so I wont complain, i'll just simpley thank him for the very least he did for me(even though i had to ask).<p>sorry to bum you guys out. i needed to vent and i need to get some encouragement.<p>PI [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

dear PI- i dont know if this will help but in my time of crisis, a friend was also going through the same thing. what she did cracks me up to this day. i dont know how i didnt pee in my pants when this happened.<p>ok here goes- she finds out hubby is having affair,EA and PA. she also finds e-mails that basically say how other woman cant wait to take over her role as wife. she becomes enraged and then eerily calm-not good. i know she is up to something. she askes if she can borrow my truck-very big-packs up all the dirty laundry and mess from around the house, the two kids, one being a very difficult teenager-picture strange haircolor, goth clothes and strange angry behavior-he is 12. she has me drive them all to ow work and she dumps everything including the kids off and tells her she is going away for the weekend-gives her laundry to do and all the errands-food shopping, bank, etc. this ow is single, no kids and is clueless to real life. the angry teen alone was enough to make her run screaming. she realized this would be her weekend life for real.<p>before anyone flames her for doing this-the kids knew this woman from dads work-she was not a total stranger to them.<p>i to this day lmao over this, the look on her face was priceless. when husband called her to find out if she went nuts-she simply explained that this ow wanted her life sooo bad-she thought she would ablige.