SCARED ... STBX met plan B conditions... - Marriage Builders® Forums

MBer's,

Found out Friday that STBX met the conditions I placed for an attempt at recovery.

I'm encouraged that she did it. But I'm scared too. Scared to open it up all over again and expose my vulnerable spots to her.

Especially after reading how many false recoveries occur. Especially seeing Penny's tragic situation.

I don't think I want to survive a false recovery.

I'm a planner, and right now I don't have a plan. I feel directionless.

The main thing that scares me most ... is how cruel STBX was during the A. The overt nastiness, in your face cruelty and abuse, it gives me pause as to what dwells under her skin. What could erupt again? But at the same time I want to have hope for her, at least for my kids sake.

Honesty, I worry I won't get it from her. I still don't think she "gets it" about what has happened to us, what she let happen to her.

We have to find a marriage counselor now.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I don't feel love for her, right now, not even a little.

.

Quick post another post!!! Look at your post count#66@!!! Not a good omen!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It's great you're scared. It's when you're too comfortable ..that's the issue. THAT is how many false recoveries happen.

Take it slow..at a rate YOU are comfortable with..remember it's not a sprint..it's a marathon.

Give yourself plenty of time to think before you act or say anything.

First learn how to really start communicating. This way when issues come up..you won't have to teach yourselves communication 101 on the fly.

Learn how to signal each other when a discussion gets tender...walk away from it before emotion takes over..come back to another time..when you can deal with it better.

Everyone makes mistakes..even you..so don't expect miracles...expect a lot of hard work..commit to it..and take one step at a time.

Expect backslides, awkwardness, and the feeling the FLEE frequently very early on. It's all part of a healing process.

No LBs... remember safe harbor..the lighthouse..stay in your new Plan A...now that Plan B has worked.

Keep venting, and coming for advice.

Good Luck !! This is good news.

.

[ January 30, 2005, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: InLikeFlynn ]

ILF,

Dang, your right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm a superstitous Son of a Gun too. Now I'm going to think about this for weeks. Maybe it is a bad omen. I don't feel good about it like I thought I would back in June.

BIJ,

I have had the feeling to Flee already. I'm afraid she's not going to do the committing part. During our marriage she has mostly been a "do what I feel at the time I feel it". It is hard to feel any security with an attitude or behaviors like that. Can it change ... can she ... does she think she should ....?

I'm quickly talking myself out of all this.

.

Maybe its just "buyers remorse."

Wow, TJ. A little unexpected. I'm not sure what to say!!

If you proceed with this, pleaaaaaaseeeeee go slowly. If she does not have an understanding of what has happened that is a huge red flag to me (like you need *another* red flag)!!

The only recommendation I have at the moment is to let HER find the MC and you have final approval.

Wow, I will be praying for you very very hard, TJ. I can understand how scary this might be. I'll bet it's pretty scary for her too.

Tom - Well the good part is that you don't have to make any instant decisions. Take your time and see how things go. While it would be wonderful for your kids, be sure to take care of Tom. Remember, you want a marriage MUCH BETTER than before.

Prayers to you and your wife.

Tom Taod -what I did to have Wh understand what he did was I printed off sections of MB and gave them to him slowly. As he would not read them on line. I printed off the one What is an affair and others. I left them next to his chair in living room and he finally started taking them to work in the am. I do not think he really read them for the first couple of months but then finally sat down and really read them. I knew he had when he called me one day and said I read the article on What is an affair. He thought his Ea was nothing. He said I am so sorry and now I see what I have done- I decieved ou. I am so so sorry. He still feels the Ow was ok but that will come in time. He knows when I said I never would do that to you -don't you see how different I am from her? Did not get an answer but I know he thinks about it. Now he is so demonstrative all the time and is great in the bedroom. He is hugging me and kissing all the time. I think he is worried I will have an A something he does not need to worry about. Good Luck and hope things work out. Just thought this might help..

Think of this post as a weather balloon. Taking measurements....

HAS YOUR WIFE FULLY and SINCERELY APOLOGIZED TO YOU FOR HER AFFAIR AS WELL AS FOR HER CRUEL TREATMENT OF YOU POST AFFAIR????

Pep

[ January 30, 2005, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Wow....
I know that must be scary. Take things very slow. Protect yourself!!!! I'll be thinking of you and wishing you the best. Hey..maybe in a year you'll be back here saying how wonderful your marriage is. Think positive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thinking of ya!!!!!

That's a good point Realtor, I never thought about it like that.....we are different from the OP's in that we couldn't/wouldn't inflict that kind of damage on another person.

Tom -

I know this must be scary....but maybe she's finally woken up and smells the coffee.

I think it's probably good to be scared, I know I would be.

I tend to want this all over like YESTERDAY, and yet...if my H came to me today and said he wanted to repair our marriage and move back in together...I'm really in no position to accept. I mean I'd love to hear those words, but I don't know if I'm strong enough to go through a false recovery either.

I think I'd have to have ALL my boundaries in place, but it appears you have.

Why don't you just get the MC going.....and take it from there, that way maybe you'll get your apology, or at least have a better understanding of her POV.

I'd love to know my WH's POV on any of this....sheesh.

Anyway, point of the post....I think it's a good thing, I think you'll be okay and it's good you're protecting yourself.

-Caren

Tom, wow. Could you tell us how she went about offering to do this, and what your conditions were. I'm curious, but I also feel it might be good for us here to decide whether or not they're tough enough.

GC

Good Call graycloud, I 2nd that.

-Caren

Hey TJ,

I am gonna put this in a guy's POV.... ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

When the ball is in your court, you can either play or ask for a timeout, right? Even stop the game if you want. It is now your ball.

Ok buddy, just because she met some or all of the plan B requirements doesn't mean you gotta jump in with 2 feet and your eyes closed.

Instead you check out those waters and if they are too cold, you stay out. If they are too hot, you stay out. If they are just right, you still take your time to wade in slowly. Gotta make sure that warm refreshing feeling is in all the water surrounding you.

Otherwise, go find another place to swim in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you are afraid of swimming, wear a life preserver. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> One with good support (you know like coaching with Jennifer or a good nearby MC)?

Got it?

L.

Ace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , TY. The selection of an MC is a source of great anxiety for me. She seems eager to start though, and even suggested we attend the next Retrovaille in our area.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Believer said:
Remember you want a marriage much better than before <hr /></blockquote>Yes Believer, I do. And I have expressed this to STBX often.

Realtor, TY
My STBX lurks here. Sometimes she surprises me about things she has read here as well. She has both HNHN and SA. I wish she would read them so we could be on the same pages with a common understanding. In the past two days my STBX has been very affectionate, something that has been uncommon for her even before the A.

PEPPERBAND,
I donâ€™t know!!! I mean she would think she has. But not to my satisfaction. She has apologized on several occasions â€¦ brief apologies ( but still with a hint of justification I feel) I have gotten these from her off and on since early December. Each time they seem more genuine, and complete. Maybe she is getting more out of the fog as time passes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . She has not really apologized for her treatment of me.

TR, Iâ€™m way gun shy right now. Trying to be careful.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />CarenMc wrote:
Why don't you just get the MC going.....and take it from there, that way maybe you'll get your apology, or at least have a better understanding of her POV.

I'd love to know my WH's POV on any of this....sheesh.
<hr /></blockquote>I donâ€™t know if I want to know that. It might set me back even farther. Sheâ€™s shared some of that during her A and it is just so foreign to me. I think we will need a good MC, and be willing partners.

GC,
These were the 6 conditions I asked for before we could consider exploring a reconciliation.

1. No Contact with OP. (She maintains she has had NC since December 8th)
2. Total Complete honesty about everything. Open herself up so I can check and verify whatever I need.
3. Individual Counseling.
4. Inform her attny that SHE wants to reconcile and notify my attny of her desire.
5. Her home-wrecking, affair enabling friends not allowed inside our home if I return. (she thought this was a bit harsh, I donâ€™t)
6. Understanding and remorse for her actions.

Orchid,
Thankyou for that because, for some reason, I felt an obligation after I got the last piece of the Plan B puzzle on Friday.

And I am just dipping a big toe in the water right now. Iâ€™m worried that I will not wait until the water is the right temperature, and instead try to let my body adjust to the temp of the water. But if I do that â€¦ eventually it will be to cold or too hot and become extremely uncomfortable.

.

[ January 30, 2005, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]

TOM:

You just received everything that you have been hoping for for a long time. Congratulations. It was just a matter of time till your wife came back and asked for another chance. Good for you. I am happy for you.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> LM

TJ,

Jeepers (I love that word)...what a turn of events. I will continue to be a cyber voyeur to see what you do. Your situation and WW is similar to mine, and I now wonder what I would do if given that "opportunity". I'm starting to feel like it's a â€œbe careful what you wish forâ€ scenario. My children are quite young...that detail really factors into my decision process.

Good luck Tom,

Binder

I was just thinking.....I truly don't know what I would do if my WH wanted to come back and did everything he could to prove his love for me. I would be torn but I still believe my decision would be NO! Too much has happened and I don't know if I could ever get past it all.
It's never going to happen anyway. He's done with his "family".

Trust comes back with time. I love how Dr Phil talks about the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Your wife will have to create that past of trustworthy behavior, and until she does you are going to be gunshy.

My husband met all of my requirements (save one) and has maintained that since he agreed, the night before our first court date. He's been completely open to me and its over time that the panicked "fight or flight" sensation has calmed down for me.

If she's meeting requirements and following thru with actions, then stick your toe in and see what happens. You'll know pretty quickly whehter or not its genuine.

Oh and dont expect her to get it all right the first time. It took us both awhile to adjust to our new relationship post-A. And the apologies at first were not all I wanted. Those came later as he reconnected with me emotionally and saw upclose the damage done.

And now, its been 4 years almost. He still apologizes on occaision. When we have a fight, he can still be nasty and unfair and downright cruel. But guess what, he NEVER uses the affair. And the one time he realized that I thought he was threatening an affair again if I didn't shape up, he immediately backed up, and thoroughly apologized, explained himself, and started over, in mid fight - something HE NEVER DOES for anything else. Was something that still has me shaking my head in wonder.

I'm more over the affair than he is now. Alot of it has to do with the fact that I have worked quite hard on me, and learned alot abotu how tough I was during his A.

I learned to trust me, trust my feelings and my ability to discern the truth from bs, etc.

That's why I am ok, and he still isn't. Though the apologies that come out of his guilt are still nice!

You'll be ok too. Just trust yourself to know if this is going the right way. It will only take a couple of weeks tops, I am sure. Rarely takes too much longer.

Tom,

If I were in your shoes I would be concerned with her motives and sudden change of heart.

She told you that there has been NC with the OM since 12/8. Was this her choice or did OM break it off on 12/8? If the OM did end the affair, what will happen if he tries to reestablish contact with your WW?

Your WW still seems to feel some justification for having an affair. She has not shown the level of remorse that you feel that she should. This would make me very uncomfortable.

Breaking off ties with her friends that helped to foster your WW's affair is a reasonable request in my opinion. Why would she want to keep these type of folks around if she is devoted to rebuilding your marriage? How can she prove to you on an ongoing basis that she is not maintaining contact with these people?

This is a woman that does not work and thought that you would pay all of the bills after the divorce. She wanted to be a "kept" woman on your dime. She did things that were cruel and unjustified.

I believe that the OM dumped your WW, or did not take their relationship to the next level, and now she is attempting to stay with you for financial reasons. Frankly, if I were in your shoes, I would think about taking her back long and hard before doing so. You could very easily find yourself in the same situation all over again if you move too quickly.

Guard your heart Tom...

BrambleRose, that was valuable insight... thankyou.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Your wife will have to create that past of trustworthy behavior, and until she does you are going to be gunshy.
<hr /></blockquote>Even before the A I expressed that her actions made me feel less than secure. Not necessarily about an OM at that time, but with her lies of ommission and the way she dismissed my thoughts and feelings. She has a long pattern of being cold and uncaring, selfish even.

I certainly want her to create that past of trustworthy behavior, and also a future of one. I really fear though that once she gets what she thinks she wants she will go right back to the old way.

I read this on another thread and thought ... Yep!
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Our marriage was (or so I thought) always great. ...... But my wife is never happy with anything. She has gone through 7 jobs in the last 10 years and is always buying things. <hr /></blockquote>My WW was never happy with anything, you could never do anything right, or even buy enough. She always seems to want what she doesn't have, and not want what she does have. SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME?

AMAFISH,

Don't believe I haven't thought of that .... 100 times already. Probably more.

My WW had this fantasy of how life was going to be. But that isn't what it is. She is working full-time now. It was kind of funny to hear her sometimes when she tells me, "I have to work". She hardly worked for 15 years, always quit every job she took. It can't be that way anymore. This affair has already cost the family around $25K.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />I believe that the OM dumped your WW, or did not take their relationship to the next level, and now she is attempting to stay with you for financial reasons. <hr /></blockquote>Your probably not far off. She told me over the summer the only reason she had stayed with me was for the support I offered, but she realized she could make it without me and didn't need me.

So I agree to a certain extent.

In SAA, the one couple had a similar situation. The outcome was a recovered M. However, I'm not fooling myself, not even sure about a recovery at all. We'll have see.

If we can both make the changes in HNHN maybe there will be a recovery. However I do think some people just have a character flaw that prohibits that. I look at Penny and know if it can happen to her again and again .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As much as my WW hates to hear me bring up the past .... she has done this before. Both PA and EA's. I see it as a pattern, she says it was yesterday and doesn't matter. But it keeps repeating itself, how can anything heal when you keep opening the wound over and over again.

OK I'm ranting. I guess that 6*6 really was an omen.

TJ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

nevermind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ January 31, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ January 31, 2005, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]

{{{{{TJ}}}}}
Hang in there!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TJ:

I've kept up with you & your story for a while now. Your answers and insight have always been spot-on to other MB-ers and your reaction now when the shoe is on your own foot seems natural. You've gotten some excellent advice from many who care about you on here and we all know that our emotions sometimes disengage our brain and send us on a high-speed run to who knows where when we're faced with this reality. It's kind of like - "no way this is happening!" However; it looks like it is happening in your case and we're all hoping for only the best.

I've seen so many WS's fight, dig & claw for this moment to happen, yet when it hits; they want to run for the hills. I understand the feeling as best I can and have often wondered why that is. Then it hit me after reading about you and regretful WW. It's all about vulnerability - which is such a power-house emotion. All of us so strongly want to be vulnerable again; yet it's almost like wrapping the noose around our neck one more time.

I have no advice to offer. Just wanted you to know that many, many on here are with you and want the best for you so please take care of yourself!

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Fishracer,

Sorry TJ for the temporary threadjack. Could you expound on the statement below.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It's all about vulnerability - which is such a power-house emotion. All of us so strongly want to be vulnerable again; yet it's almost like wrapping the noose around our neck one more time. <hr /></blockquote>I guess I just don't understand what you mean about being vulnerable again.

Thanx

When the Trust Factor goes awry, it is hard to get it back. When I was about 15 years old, I told my dad a lie. I got caught (can't even remember what it was - not serious but that didn't matter to my dad). He told me I lost his trust. That hurt the worst. For years (up through high school), I desparately tried to earn that trust back. I lived at home was a honor roll student, did the best I could......my parents did not deny me anything and gave what they could (we were poor) but always had food on the table. The one thing I kept as my goal was to regain my father's trust. It took 4 years to do so. For me 4 long years. What I had done was minisquel (sp???), yet it still took me 4 years. He finally told me one day that it appeared I had learned my lesson. Boy did I. It was a lesson I never forgot.

So when the WS lost my trust, well I wondered how long it would take to get my trust back? What I found out is that it is gradual. My dad taught me a lesson. I didn't have to adhear to his timeframe but with my Xws, the trust factor was a gradual WIP for him. Even now, he is still earning it back. He is acting as an H by what I can see but if that WS should ever peek out..... all goes back to square 1. I say I keep plan B in my back pocket and I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think we all should. Take it at your pace TJ. No need to rush or make assumptions you may regret. Let her prove it to you.

JMHO,
L.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Sorry TJ for the temporary threadjack. Could you expound on the statement below.

quote:It's all about vulnerability - which is such a power-house emotion. All of us so strongly want to be vulnerable again; yet it's almost like wrapping the noose around our neck one more time.

I guess I just don't understand what you mean about being vulnerable again. <hr /></blockquote>Cymanca: I'll give this a try!

First; it has to be understood that there can be no real love w/o trust!

Therefore; when we become vulnerable to another we are really allowing ourselves to be capable of being wounded or hurt by them. We do this in order to show how much we trust the other person. What we are really saying is; "I want to trust you enough (be vulnerable enough) to love you with my entire being". "My entire being" includes our deepest intimacies, secrets, insecurities and desires. There is nothing held back! You know and have my all! It is as Jesus loves us.

And in a healthy marriage; both spouses continually allow themselves to become vulnerable to the other. As they experience life's issues, good and bad - and succeed - as a team; trust is reinforced at each step. Soon it becomes a continuous cycle of trust-love-trust-love that multiplies over time. As the trust increases, so does the ability to be vulnerable to each other.

But when an A happens; the WS usually shares all of the deep (vulnerable) secrets with the OP in a negative manner because as we know, the FOG is tragic. So the "degree" of vulnerability that has been built up for years is abruptly and harmfully used against the BS - causing deep emotional hurt, anger and resentment. Add that to the physical actions of the A and it can be a very tough pill to swallow.

For most; it is hard to become vulnerable to someone in a new relationship. It's unfair because it was not the new person who caused the hurt - but feelings are feelings and must be dealt with.

But many on here are faced with the choice of offering their vulnerability to the very same person who ripped it to shreds in such a callous and incompassionate manner. <blockquote>quote:<hr />wrapping the noose around our neck one more time<hr /></blockquote>It takes a great person to do this!

FR

Tom this is great news, procede with caution. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The overt nastiness, in your face cruelty and abuse, it gives me pause as to what dwells under her skin. What could erupt again? But at the same time I want to have hope for her, at least for my kids sake.
<hr /></blockquote>Try to think of the alien abducted scenario. The WS justifies to such a degree, they turn into the alien.

Tom, her justification will stop when she is fully recovered. It took me months, of soul searching and building of my character, before I could stand up and say, I did this, I chose the affair, it had nothing to do with the way my H treated me in the past, it had nothing to do with the so called lure of the OM, it was ALL ME!!

You have armed yourself with MB principles. Trust your judgment, be kind but firm with your boundaries.

Best of luck to you Tom. I'm going to be anxiously waiting for future post from you.

KY