Tom,

If I were in your shoes I would be concerned with her motives and sudden change of heart.

She told you that there has been NC with the OM since 12/8. Was this her choice or did OM break it off on 12/8? If the OM did end the affair, what will happen if he tries to reestablish contact with your WW?

Your WW still seems to feel some justification for having an affair. She has not shown the level of remorse that you feel that she should. This would make me very uncomfortable.

Breaking off ties with her friends that helped to foster your WW's affair is a reasonable request in my opinion. Why would she want to keep these type of folks around if she is devoted to rebuilding your marriage? How can she prove to you on an ongoing basis that she is not maintaining contact with these people?

This is a woman that does not work and thought that you would pay all of the bills after the divorce. She wanted to be a "kept" woman on your dime. She did things that were cruel and unjustified.

I believe that the OM dumped your WW, or did not take their relationship to the next level, and now she is attempting to stay with you for financial reasons. Frankly, if I were in your shoes, I would think about taking her back long and hard before doing so. You could very easily find yourself in the same situation all over again if you move too quickly.

Guard your heart Tom...

BrambleRose, that was valuable insight... thankyou.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife will have to create that past of trustworthy behavior, and until she does you are going to be gunshy.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even before the A I expressed that her actions made me feel less than secure. Not necessarily about an OM at that time, but with her lies of ommission and the way she dismissed my thoughts and feelings. She has a long pattern of being cold and uncaring, selfish even.

I certainly want her to create that past of trustworthy behavior, and also a future of one. I really fear though that once she gets what she thinks she wants she will go right back to the old way.

I read this on another thread and thought ... Yep!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our marriage was (or so I thought) always great. ...... But my wife is never happy with anything. She has gone through 7 jobs in the last 10 years and is always buying things. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WW was never happy with anything, you could never do anything right, or even buy enough. She always seems to want what she doesn't have, and not want what she does have. SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME?

AMAFISH,

Don't believe I haven't thought of that .... 100 times already. Probably more.

My WW had this fantasy of how life was going to be. But that isn't what it is. She is working full-time now. It was kind of funny to hear her sometimes when she tells me, "I have to work". She hardly worked for 15 years, always quit every job she took. It can't be that way anymore. This affair has already cost the family around $25K.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that the OM dumped your WW, or did not take their relationship to the next level, and now she is attempting to stay with you for financial reasons. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your probably not far off. She told me over the summer the only reason she had stayed with me was for the support I offered, but she realized she could make it without me and didn't need me.

So I agree to a certain extent.

In SAA, the one couple had a similar situation. The outcome was a recovered M. However, I'm not fooling myself, not even sure about a recovery at all. We'll have see.

If we can both make the changes in HNHN maybe there will be a recovery. However I do think some people just have a character flaw that prohibits that. I look at Penny and know if it can happen to her again and again .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As much as my WW hates to hear me bring up the past .... she has done this before. Both PA and EA's. I see it as a pattern, she says it was yesterday and doesn't matter. But it keeps repeating itself, how can anything heal when you keep opening the wound over and over again.

OK I'm ranting. I guess that 6*6 really was an omen.

TJ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

nevermind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

{{{{{TJ}}}}}
Hang in there!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{{{TJ}}}}}
Hang in there!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TJ:

I've kept up with you & your story for a while now. Your answers and insight have always been spot-on to other MB-ers and your reaction now when the shoe is on your own foot seems natural. You've gotten some excellent advice from many who care about you on here and we all know that our emotions sometimes disengage our brain and send us on a high-speed run to who knows where when we're faced with this reality. It's kind of like - "no way this is happening!" However; it looks like it is happening in your case and we're all hoping for only the best.

I've seen so many WS's fight, dig & claw for this moment to happen, yet when it hits; they want to run for the hills. I understand the feeling as best I can and have often wondered why that is. Then it hit me after reading about you and regretful WW. It's all about vulnerability - which is such a power-house emotion. All of us so strongly want to be vulnerable again; yet it's almost like wrapping the noose around our neck one more time.

I have no advice to offer. Just wanted you to know that many, many on here are with you and want the best for you so please take care of yourself!

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Fishracer,

Sorry TJ for the temporary threadjack. Could you expound on the statement below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's all about vulnerability - which is such a power-house emotion. All of us so strongly want to be vulnerable again; yet it's almost like wrapping the noose around our neck one more time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I just don't understand what you mean about being vulnerable again.

Thanx

When the Trust Factor goes awry, it is hard to get it back. When I was about 15 years old, I told my dad a lie. I got caught (can't even remember what it was - not serious but that didn't matter to my dad). He told me I lost his trust. That hurt the worst. For years (up through high school), I desparately tried to earn that trust back. I lived at home was a honor roll student, did the best I could......my parents did not deny me anything and gave what they could (we were poor) but always had food on the table. The one thing I kept as my goal was to regain my father's trust. It took 4 years to do so. For me 4 long years. What I had done was minisquel (sp???), yet it still took me 4 years. He finally told me one day that it appeared I had learned my lesson. Boy did I. It was a lesson I never forgot.

So when the WS lost my trust, well I wondered how long it would take to get my trust back? What I found out is that it is gradual. My dad taught me a lesson. I didn't have to adhear to his timeframe but with my Xws, the trust factor was a gradual WIP for him. Even now, he is still earning it back. He is acting as an H by what I can see but if that WS should ever peek out..... all goes back to square 1. I say I keep plan B in my back pocket and I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think we all should. Take it at your pace TJ. No need to rush or make assumptions you may regret. Let her prove it to you.

JMHO,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry TJ for the temporary threadjack. Could you expound on the statement below.

quote:It's all about vulnerability - which is such a power-house emotion. All of us so strongly want to be vulnerable again; yet it's almost like wrapping the noose around our neck one more time.

I guess I just don't understand what you mean about being vulnerable again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cymanca: I'll give this a try!

First; it has to be understood that there can be no real love w/o trust!

Therefore; when we become vulnerable to another we are really allowing ourselves to be capable of being wounded or hurt by them. We do this in order to show how much we trust the other person. What we are really saying is; "I want to trust you enough (be vulnerable enough) to love you with my entire being". "My entire being" includes our deepest intimacies, secrets, insecurities and desires. There is nothing held back! You know and have my all! It is as Jesus loves us.

And in a healthy marriage; both spouses continually allow themselves to become vulnerable to the other. As they experience life's issues, good and bad - and succeed - as a team; trust is reinforced at each step. Soon it becomes a continuous cycle of trust-love-trust-love that multiplies over time. As the trust increases, so does the ability to be vulnerable to each other.

But when an A happens; the WS usually shares all of the deep (vulnerable) secrets with the OP in a negative manner because as we know, the FOG is tragic. So the "degree" of vulnerability that has been built up for years is abruptly and harmfully used against the BS - causing deep emotional hurt, anger and resentment. Add that to the physical actions of the A and it can be a very tough pill to swallow.

For most; it is hard to become vulnerable to someone in a new relationship. It's unfair because it was not the new person who caused the hurt - but feelings are feelings and must be dealt with.

But many on here are faced with the choice of offering their vulnerability to the very same person who ripped it to shreds in such a callous and incompassionate manner. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wrapping the noose around our neck one more time</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It takes a great person to do this!

FR

Tom this is great news, procede with caution. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The overt nastiness, in your face cruelty and abuse, it gives me pause as to what dwells under her skin. What could erupt again? But at the same time I want to have hope for her, at least for my kids sake.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try to think of the alien abducted scenario. The WS justifies to such a degree, they turn into the alien.

Tom, her justification will stop when she is fully recovered. It took me months, of soul searching and building of my character, before I could stand up and say, I did this, I chose the affair, it had nothing to do with the way my H treated me in the past, it had nothing to do with the so called lure of the OM, it was ALL ME!!

You have armed yourself with MB principles. Trust your judgment, be kind but firm with your boundaries.

Best of luck to you Tom. I'm going to be anxiously waiting for future post from you.

KY