We had a talk this morning that was kind of disheartening. We talked about the different levels of physical intimacy and what he's is and isn't comfortable with. Sometimes he feels like he wants physical contact (holding hands, kissing, hugging, touching) and other times he doesn't. Sexual intimacy is out. Up until a week ago, we were okay in that area. Since then, the continuation of his A has been brought to light. He's really withdrawn physically and emotionally. He told me this morning that he's not comfortable with sex right now. He doesn't know if it'll be 6 months, a year or never. The last part was a bit melodramatic, and he admitted as much. He's just not feeling it. He says it's not about his feelings for me. I'm trying to understand the why of it. Setting aside my feeling rejected, I'm trying to understand what is causing him to feel this way...and is there anything that I can do to make him feel comfortable with me again?

OB1 - I ache for you because I remember feeling the same way.

He's feeling he's not worthy and doesn't know if he'll ever feel worthy of you again. Think of him being in a pit so deep he cannot see a way out. You're there and you can see it....but he doesn't BELIEVE you see it.

Yet.

Be steadfast. Do not waiver.

It will take time....but contact with the tart must end before he can gain his footing enough to start climbing.

You are good and you are strong and you are kind....believe it OBWAN and you will be the light he needs to find his path.

All my love,
Kimmy

Kimmy, I'm so glad you're here. I need help dealing with this. I'm feeling pretty lost right now. He's confused. I'm confused.

Confusion is good....right?

niosgirlatyahoodotcom

I love you so much....you know that right?

You are not alone, no matter how alone you're feeling today. I'm here and I went through it all....here's my hand...we'll get through this.

I promise.

Kimmy nailed it on the head OB1...this is not about you...sad to say it's all about him...

Once C has ended things will get better...be still, be the greatest you can possible be, and Plan A the he!! out of him...

You're doing great and you have a great mentor on your hands!

Sorry OB,

My post wasn't helpful so I'm deleting it.

Give it time, feeling do return.

Email for you OBWAN.

What you say makes sense. I guess, I KNOW, in a common sense sort of way. Knowing it and living it, that's the struggle. I feel I can, and then I feel I can't. I want to, but I don't know how long I can last. Everyday that we wake up together I feel strong enough to endure this, but as the day progresses, the hopeless feelings creep in. I start getting teary eyed, until it gets too hard to hold the tears in check.

I know.

And time plods on so s-l-o-w-l-y while they make half hearted attempts at climbing their way out. Makes one want to scream and pull one's hair out, no? But all that gets you is a sore throat and bald patches.

When you need to cry, you can call me. I will not let you cry by youself....and I'll tell you when it's time to quit crying, to fix your mascara and put your lipgloss on, okay?

- Kimmy

It's the half-hearted efforts that drive me crazy. I know this man! I know what he's capable of. I know how he can make me feel. He can make me feel so loved and safe. He can be so attentive and caring. This isn't even close. His half-a$$ed efforts only serve to remind me of how much we're missing. His lack of 100% committment baffles me, considering how much is at stake. Fog? Where are the [email]d@mn[/email] fog lights?!

But it was honest. It was real. I appreciate that immensely. I don't want sunshine enemas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm looking to understand WHY he feels the way he does. I don't know if monogamy comes into play. It might, but I'm not sure. For 2 months after the initial D-day, our sex life was fine. There was actually MORE. That was me reaching out to meet his EN's...and mine. We had both gotten stuck in feeling uncertainty about the other's receptiveness. I had to set aside my reservations and inhibition about being the initial agressor and just go for it. I knew I needed to let him know that I WAS interested. That I DID want him. We appeared to be doing pretty good. Not as good as I would have liked, but definitely much better than what it had been.

Now, just a few days after discovering the continued A, he's not "feeling it". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

We (Mrs. W and I) agree with CN.

Unfortunately, BH was likely doing the sex thing to keep you quiet and unaware of the continuing situation with OW. Now that the truth is out there is no longer the need to manipulate you by acting like all is normal and getting better.

Plus just the other day he got totally busted by his addiction (OW) for lying to her. To appease HER and maintain access to his addiction he's likley had to make some outlandish promises...like faithfulness to her.

Further, sex with you clouds his mind. When he's with her he knows what he wants to do...he feels powerful and mighty. With you he's just a husband, with her he's a (false) KING.

All things being equal I think you should trust the instincts of the FWS's here (CN and Mrs. W) about what your husbands doing.

Keep up the Plan A. Non-sexual touching. Deep down, behind the fog he still loves you. You may even get him to break this "faithful" promise to OW and really mess him up.

Figured you like the truth (the others may be right) It's par for the course really. Doesn't necessarily make your marriage less recoverable. He's just still wayward for now. You can't obsess over it. It is what it is. Accept the uncerainty of it.

Mr. Wondering

So keep chipping away? When we talked this morning, he admitted that he was okay with the hand-holding, hugging, holding me at night while we sleep. This morning he was receptive to my kiss good-bye. On Friday, two days after I found out about the continued A, we went to dinner. We were gone for barely and hour, and it was very awkward for both of us. Last night, we went to a movie. We bought our tickets and sat outside to talk for a little bit. We talked about his comfort level regarding intimacy. Then we held hands for the duration of the movie. That night, I laid in his arms and cried silently until he slept. Then I pulled away and lost myself in my dark thoughts. I finally slept around 3 AM, only to wake up 2 hours later. He also woke up, and that's when we talked more in depth about the awkwardness he was feeling....and here I am.

I don't want to push too hard, but I don't think backing off is the answer either. Part of the problem that led us to this is that I had withdrawn emotionally. I wasn't being very affectionate. He didn't feel loved or wanted anymore. I'm trying to find a balance between conveying my love and respecting that he needs time and space.

OB1
My heart is breaking for you. I've been through it. My WH did the same thing. After exposure, we had a month of reconnecting, then he just withdrew again. That lasted for about 2 months, then he moved back home. He's been home for 3 months now, and he is slowly moving out of his fog.

It takes time, but your WH will come around. I Plan A'd until it hurt, and I continue to do so (for the most part). It does work. They just need time.

No sunshine enemas here.

I guess I'm going to imagine that your H feels a lot like I did during that time of my life and I will base my response on that. If it doesn't apply, then just ignore it . . . I really am trying to help.

Sex is emotional. Your H's loyalties are split . . . he is a mess. If you haven't had your loyalties divided this way I can't really explain how it feels, but it is painful. . . you feel like a manic/depressive and you take huge and scary emotion swings and you will grab at the first thing that you believe will make it stop.

He knows what he is doing with OW is wrong, he is married . . . married men aren't supposed to have girlfriends . . . he knows this. However, she is stroking his pleasure centers and it just feels so damn good that one can hardly think of anything else.

If he is still seeing her, you are only going to get part of him. You need to try to get him to end the affair, then try to pull him back home. Some WS just need a gentle push some heed a kick in the rear . . . some just need a kind word and a promise that things can get better. . . and be given the information that someday you can forgive him for this. He needs to hear how bad this hurts you and that you respect him way too much to just sit by and watch him self-destruct. If your H is in pain, he wants it to stop. Help him stop this damaging behavior and you really will be his hero.

I expected my W to just divorce me, I guess I even wished that she would have at the time because that would have ended that horrible split state I was in, she didn't. She let me know that my behavior sucked and that she thought she married a better man . . . that she didn't like the new me and wanted the man she married to come back home. She let me know that she loved me and she offered me an olive branch when I was expecting a kick in the teeth. I was floored.

I think you have a plan of action..finding that balance...it's the same thing with FWH and I...I had withdrawn from him...but I didn't know that he was having an A...H had/has lots of friends...but this one made me uncomfortable...

Finding that balance was one of the first things I had to do...Do you know what his EN's are? Is he receptive towards cards, little notes, etc. or does he like for you to do things for him? I'm sure there are other ways that you can convey your love for him. Words of Affirmation are powerful!

I have faith that you will convey your love and restore your M...just be patient...be still...he's talking and that's a great thing.

Good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



He started reading Surving An Affair. I do believe that some of it sunk in. He was quiet and pensive for the remainder of the day. He acknowledges that we cannot truly start recovering until it's completely over between them. He says he wants to try and work us out, but I'm positive that he's still conflicted. He's afraid of what he might be missing with her. I would like to say that it's withdrawal, except that I don't know that contact has ceased.



I've done these things. I continue to be there. I keep trying. I keep showing. I guess he just needs time...time to believe that 1)it's real, and 2)recovery CAN happen.

OB1...

Really you need to be snooping to glean more information about what is going on...Go buy a voice activated digital recorder and put it in his car...check cell phone records online...install a keylogger on the home computer if he uses it...You must INSPECT what you EXPECT...Don't take his word for it that he is in NC...Have you spoken recently to OWH? You need to do that...

Refresh me a bit, how far has this affair been exposed? In other words, who knows about it? Your husband is fog bound right now, and part of Plan A is exposure to bust up that affair...THAT is the first order of business here...Otherwise we are just talking about the peeling paint in the girl's bathroom aboard the Titanic, KWIM?

And yes, I agreed fully with CN's first post...CN, that was a great honest post and it was helpful because it was the brass tacks about the selfish thoughts and actions of an active WS...I'm glad that OB1 got to read it-CN, if you saved that post, I think that you should repost it-that was real stuff...Even when the truth is harsh, it is the kindest thing that you can do for a person...

Mrs. W

And he will NEVER believe this things until that affair is busted up and he withdraws...He is an addict right now OB1 and must be treated as such...Exposure is your INTERVENTION...Let's get started on an ACTION plan to blow the lid off this thing OB1...

Mrs. W

I agree Mrs.

We need to break the A up...he's already shown he can't be trusted to break it up.

BTW: Sunshine enemas burn.

I have exposed. My family knows. Friends know. His mother knows (no help). Her H knows. Her H has exposed on his end. The final exposure (of sorts) was to her. All the lies and deceit. He had her thinking one way, when it was something completely different. Now that reality has been exposed, I will no longer consider any further information she has to offer. My last conversation with her (last Friday), she made the comment that D would have a lot to prove to her. WTH?! That clearly showed me that she was/is considering continuing the relationship. It was the next night that D said he wanted to try and work things out. That in no way means that he has ceased contact. What it conveyed to me was that he was leaning more towards a future for us, as opposed to her. His feelings for her are still there. Those won't go away anytime soon. So, I've exposed as far as I can. From here on, plan A?

We completed the EN's questionnaire before D-day. I didn't pay close enough attention. He's got my full attention now.

The problem I'm encountering is that sometimes he's receptive and other times he feels overwhelmed by it all and wants it to stop. I'm guessing it's at those times that guilt is at a high.

>From here on, plan A?

Yes.

And keep YOU healthy! The only way to get through this is to take care of yourself OB1. He's proven that at this point he cannot or will not be able to help YOU when you need it. So you have me to holler at you when you don't take your meds....you are taking them, right? Cos your little brood needs YOU - YOU are the only stable FUNCTIONING person in their lives right now...and we are going to keep you that way.

D may founder for awhile but you stay steadfast and strong girly...even when you don't feel like it...ya hear?

- Kimmy

Yes, Plan A until it makes you want to puke.

Do not normalize the affair though, do not act as if you are fine with it, do not shelter him from your pain. If you feel like crying do it. If you are mad, show it . . . then get back to Plan A.

I know that seeing my wife in pain shook me awake . . . if she would have just played nice I don't think I would have left the affair. It is hard to see someone you love so profoundly sad . . . and knowing that you are the cause of it. It worked with me . . . my wife didn't do the MB thing and this advice is probably not in the script. I guess there was enough of me left that wanted to come home and rescue my wife.

I like to fix things I guess.

portion of your relationship. I remember feeling (yes sick to think of it now!) that I was betraying the OM if I were to be intimate in any way (emotionally or physically) with BH shortly after I told BH about the A. Since I wasn't certain we were going to be able to stay married anymore, I felt if I were to be intimate with him it would give him hope for things to work out when I wasn't sure that's what I wanted yet!

Not sure if this helps but that was the reason I could not have any kind of intimacy following the A with my BH. I am somewhat there right now again but for diff. reasons (OC w/OM long story).

McBecca

Yes, I'm taking them. I had to set the alarm on my cell to remind me. Yesterday, the alarm went off and I sprinted down the hall, past 2 kids to get to it. They looked at me like I was nuts. D doesn't know. He doesn't even know I went to the doc. I'm afraid that telling him would just increase his feelings of guilt and make him withdraw even more. Sometimes I feel like I'm shouldering the burden of this alone. I'm trying to be patient, supportive and understanding, while dealing with my own issues. I wish I could turn to him and count on him being there for ME, but I can't....not yet. He's too wrapped up in himself to really see and feel what I'm going through. He doesn't see how much I need his support. And even if he did, I don't think he's capable of giving it right now.

{{OB1}} Just cause I BTDT. Keep on trying, sweetie.

This is my secret fear. If this is what he's feeling, then it means further deterioration of our relationship.

I'm in the lot wanting to offer you the support you need...I'm with Kimmy all the way...LOL...I've even got the 2x4, of course should you need one!

I learned alot about myself waiting on H to come around...It's been one he// of a rollercoaster ride...you can do it...I have faith in you...Keep up the good work with Plan A...

Plan A is a complete turnaround from the year leading up to the affair. I think I'm confusing the he!! out of him. For over a year, our relationship was full of bickering/fighting and long periods of indifference. I was full of anger and bitterness over his chronic lying. At THAT time, I felt betrayed. He repeatedly betrayed my trust with his lies. That anger was always bubbling just under the surface. I was short-tempered, hard to please, demanding, impatient...a real tyrant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I wasn't like that before, and I hated it. The kids were unhappy, I was unhappy, and D was obviously unhappy. I had to make the choice to let the anger go and make changes within me. That's what I'm working on now. I know I can do it....I AM doing it! I'm not the bitter hag type. It's hard to accept that I had turned into one.

I'm doing my best to avoid fights. That's one of his biggest complaints. He wants to get along. I'm working on talking, negotiating, compromising, etc. It can be pretty difficult at times. He's so used to how bad things had become, he's always looking for the fight. He's defensive and will sometimes go on the attack, probably thinking that is the direction the conversation is taking. Talking him down can be a real chore.

In addition, I'm trying to get him to go out with me more...have leisure time. So far, he's been open to it...with a little trepidation. He says yes, but he doesn't appear to be overly excited about it. He's always got this long face. I'm really hoping he keeps his IC appointment. He's got a lot going on in his head...dark thoughts...and I know he's not capable of sorting through it on his own. He needs fresh perspective and guidance. I try, but he's still pretty withdrawn with me. He opens up a little at a time.

OMG, you and your sitch sounds sooo much like the way things were with FWH and I. I was really big into the yelling and H told me that was one of the reason he would go to OW's house...to get away from us...he said that sometimes he would just sit there and watch TV. That it was quiet.

I have to do the same thing with FWH in regard to talking him down and changing the way I deal with him now. He's not use to it either. A disagreement would last for days...silent treatment...the whole nine...and now I have it down to a few minutes...

Of course, I wonder if he's being more passive now, than aggressive...you know just letting it slide for the sake of peace...

Your WH sounds very much like mine...matter of fact, FWH told me once, "Well, I was home every night wasn't I?" I guess that was suppose to comfort me. He said another time that OW had nothing to offer him. Not really sure what that meant but I just accepted the statement as his truth.

I wasn't doing to good with listen and repeat, so I was practicing at the time, now I'm working on clarity and understanding.

We'll get there...sounds to me like we were in the same stop...it got to the point where I didn't even want to be around him...i don't know if you felt the same, but I can tell you I have come a LOOOOOONG way from where I was...

Especially in letting all that anger and resentment go...that was hard! LOL

Sunday evening he says, "Well, I could go be with her at any time, you know. But I haven't. I'm here."

Yeah, he came home every night, but that sure didn't stop him from finding a way to spend time with her. Duh!


With D, he said that OW and I are very similar. He found qualities in her that he had been missing in me. She was filling a void.


At one point, about a year ago, I found myself in a precarious position. I could have very easily crossed the line and had an A myself. The opportunity was there. I was so down on our relationship. I was missing so much from D. I was full of anger and resignation to a life that was not the way I wanted it. I considered it, but couldn't do it. As unhappy as I was, I loved D. I could have never hurt him in that way. I just couldn't do it. It's not in me.


For me, it wasn't so hard. I had a choice to make, and once I determined what was more important, I did it. I could work to salvage our relationship or hold onto the past. It was a no-brainer.

I have not read the rest of this post, so maybe it is addressed somewhere else.

I imagine he is feeling depressed about his own life and own personal choices. I am a FWW and I remember feeling that way.

"It was a no-brainer."

I agree, it was definitily a no brainer! The hard part was making that chose everyday...to not withdraw and create more...so often after d-day I want to withdraw because it felt natural and would have to push myself into moving forward...

It's good to hear that you respect yourself and D enough to have made that wonderful choice and not give in to an A. I wasn't same enough or strong enough when I had my ONS, so long ago. It was after telling H about it that I learned my lesson and have made the chose not to even put myself in a position that would result in an A of any kind. That was an easy choice! LOL I've been doing my very best to live by that choice and I've had opportunities.

I remember a customer of my company asked me something one time and I had to let him know that I was happily M...even when we weren't so happy. Thing is he met H...I was shocked by him asking...it was like "the nerve of some people."

Anyway, I'm rabbling!

I'm pretty certain that depression is playing a huge role in all of this. He suffered a work related injury about 1 1/2 years ago. He's a firefighter/paramedic. The injury is to his c-spine, and it may require fusion. He's facing the possibility of not being able to return to the job he loves. It's a big part of who he is. What he's doing now, he enjoys, to a certain extent, but it's not what he wants. He wants to return to the fire department. That has compounded our problems a great deal. He's not happy with himself or his life. He wakes up sometimes and says he doesn't care about anything. D has a flare for the dramatic, but you can get the jist of what he's feeling. Work comp claimant's that are out of work for a year or more, often suffer from depression. A physical injury can often turn into a psych claim.

Damn! It just hit me. He could go to his PTP and talk about this and get meds prescribed to help deal with the depression. Uggghhhh! Talk about a V8 moment.

That's cute...a V8 moments...I like that! LOL

Wow, that is a lot of stress riding on him...

Ouch!

I just talked to D about the AD's. He laughed and said "Why would I need AD's? I'm not crazy. I don't want to be whacked out on drugs like a crazy person."

He doesn't know I've been prescribed AD's. I didn't know what to say. So he asked me if I thought he was crazy. I went on to explain that depression is fairly common in situations such as his, with the work injury. Then he admitted that maybe he was a little depressed. Uhhhhh, ya think?!

He said he would talk to his doc.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Oh, and his IC session has been moved up from Friday to tomorrow. He was going to cancel his Friday appointment because he needed to work. That would be cancellation number 2. I gently reminded him that he needed to go. He got exasperated and said he would figure it out and call me back.
He told me he was taking tomorrow off for an appointment for a surgical consult, so I called the therapist and thankfully she had an opening in the afternoon. He has agreed to go tomorrow. I won't breath easy until he's actually in her office.