Lake53 advised me to repost this in the general forum. My original post is in "Just Found Out".

Original Post Link

Here is a brief summary:
Wife of 5 years is having an EA, but refuses to stop talking with the OM on the grounds that she needs to know if she really "loves" him first. My WS has agreed to work on our problems meeting each others EMs, and we have been reading through the basics together. So far this has been wonderful, but I know if she doesn't stop talking to the OM that he will poison all the gains we have made.

lake53 has talked to me about exposure targets. Here is a summary of the OM's relevant information:
He is in the military, did a tour in Iraq, and is being redeployed in October, I believe. He is unmarried, has no kids, works as a waiter, and lives with a male roomate. He is also an alcoholic and seems, from what my wife told me, is suffering from PTSD. (These are facts and not just my anger coming out.) I am not sure what an exposure target would be in his case.

My WS's possible exposure targets are my in laws with whom I have a very, very close relationship especially with my brother in law who is a close friend. Although, I am very hesitant about using these exposure targets.

My WS is on tour (By tour I mean a theater company in the United States.) and is not located near either me or the OM. A majority of their relationship has been via phone. She is coming to see me in a week, and I think I can get her to stop talking to the OM and focus on us from now to the time she goes back on tour from her visit. The question I posed to lake53 was if this is a good course of action?

Update: She told me that she wants the OM to come visit her at one of the tour stops, so she can see him and decide if she "loves" him. She says she can't do that over the phone. She still swears it isn't physical...I have my doubts.

You'll hear from others soon. I suggest you expose to her family. Also, tell her you will be willing to meet with him along with her so that she can decide if she loves him. Once a person is talking about meeting with someone to see if they love them or have feelings for them, it is an A and it needs to be fully exposed--the sooner the better. So you are saying you don't think they have had [email]s@x[/email] yet. It is still a full fledged A and she is doing some impressive fog talk to you. Expose this now, you have an exposure list that sounds like a group of people who will help you save your marriage.

You will not be able to get her to focus on your M while she is in such a deep fog as to be saying she needs to meet him to see if she loves him. Many here have been down a similar path and the fact is that you need to expose this to her family and you should also expose it to the OM's boss. Didn't you say he is in the military also?
Lake

Expose to his commanding officer. Adultery is punishable under UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). Tell the CO that your wife "claims" it wasn't physical, but you believe it has been. Request that he 'restrict' his soldier from having any relationship with your wife, as you believe that this has already gone too far. Be calm, polite, and blunt when you're dealing with the CO.

Expose to HER commanding officer in the exact same fashion, and at the exact same time. Let each CO know that you're exposing to the other at the same time...even give them each other's contact information if you want to.

What rank is your wife, and what rank is OM? Are they in the same command? Do either of them hold a position of authority over the other?

Do not hesitate to expose this to your wife's family. You are fortunate to have this resource. Make use of it.
Lake

Completely agree with Lake, btw.

Do all of this...at one time. Don't warn your WW that you're going to do so, either. She'll put a spin on it to make you look like a nutcase.

Sorry for the confusion, but when I say on tour I means my wife is touring the country with a theater company. The OM is current waiting to be recalled and is working as a waiter in my home town. Does he have a CO at this point, and if so is adultery with a person not in the military still punishable? How would I go about contacting his CO?

Thanks for the reply.

By the way, do you see how crazy my suggestion sounds? that you and she could meet with her OM when she sees if she has feelings for him? That is how far out of line she is and how fogged out she is. Under the guidelines for a healthy M provided on this website, the two of you would go together to make such major decisions. I really think it best that they do not meet at all. But if it comes down to that for one reason or another, I think you should be there with her.

How do you know that they have not already met up? Do you see her credit card bill?
Lake

Is he active duty military, or is he national gaurd/active reserve? In either case, yes, he should still have a CO, and be assigned/attached to a unit.

How did your wife meet OM?
Is she doing something in support of the military? Have you considered bringing this up to her boss?

They have seen each other a couple of times over the last year for sure. She would go to our hometown to see her parents and would even call saying she was hanging out with the OM and his friends. She always made it sound like they were buddies and maybe thats all they were for a time.

As for now, I take care of all the finances and would be able to tell if she used money from any of the credit cards or bank accounts.

As for your suggestion...wow...that would be really rough, but you are right. She has said she wants to follow the precepts on this site.

She met the OM in college when they dated for a very short time, and then were friends for a few years. She lost contact with him and found him again on the increasingly pain-in-my-side MySpace.

She is not involved in a USO tour or anything and has no involvement in the military.

I just spent the last hour writing out the whole EA story in preparation to talk to her parents and brother. I am very nervous about approaching them. It seems like a giant LB, and I really feel the last couple of days we have been filling up the bank again. I do see the wisdom in that it is all for nothing if this guy is still in the picture. I am just afraid it will blow up in my face and drive her to him.

I ditto everything that has been said. My FWH is military and his OW was also military. So, you can read my story on what happened when I exposed to their CO. It is a MUST if you want any chance of saving your marriage. You will need some strong proof before approaching if you expact consequences, but you should still tell his CO regardless. I had emails and stuff. The fact that your wife is admitting feelings, is a good sign that there is more underneath.

Yes, exposing seems like a HUGE LB, but it isn't. It's getting the bacteria out of a wound. It hurts, but you'll be better because you did it.

Read up on some exposure threads to help prepare you. It won't be fun. But it gets soooo much better once your WW is out of the influence of the A. And her parents may help you in fighting your WW from seeing the OM, since it's at her hometown when she sees him.

Good luck.

ter,
She is talking about going to see him to see if she loves him. She has been with him a few times this past year. She has not been living with you all the time as her job has taken her out of town.

You are fighting for your marriage right now! I don't know, but it almost seems like you are in a state of shock right now, almost like she has your emotions held hostage. You need to expose this affair to the people who can help you recover your marriage. Right now, your best allies are her family who are very supportive of you and your marriage. You have described them as reasonable people. Tell them what is going on so they can help you get your wife out of her fog! If there are other exposure targets in her troupe, use them also.

Lake

what kind of work do you do?

WW being on the road is really working against you... any chance you could take a leave of absence from work and join your wife?

I am a computer programmer and could technically do my job from the road. I went to work on D-day + 1, but stayed home the next two days. I plan on talking to my boss about options on Monday if I can pull it together enough to go.

I think this is your best bet...

and since you have no kids ... you're pretty much free to move about the country at will

May I suggest you just show up ... without telling WW in advance...

show up with flowers
looking GREAT
smelling sexy
and room service alerted to bring champagne on ice upon your arrival

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I found a number of messages sent via MySpace from my WS's account to the OM. They all occurred before D-Day and contain language like, "I will be yours-all yours- completely some day." Plus a poem titled "Because I love you" with the line, "You make my body quiver when you kiss me.". She also told me he didn't confess his feelings to her till a few months ago, but I found a messaged dated from August that sounds pretty damn close to a confession. There is no reference to sex in all this, but it sounds pretty physical to me! Should I confront her about these messages?

I am still gathering information about the OM, so I can do the exposures all at once. Is that right or should I do them one at a time? A "tsunami" of truth sounds like all at once.

I don't know if I can keep this up. It is draining me to the very core. I don't eat. I don't sleep. I can't seem to think of anything but the EA. God help me.

No. You are not strong enough to confront a WS. Instead you s/b working on gaining your strength and establishing your personal support group.

Where are you with your MB reading material?

L.

Together we have been reading and discussing the basics. We have read through most of them and are going to do the emotional needs questionnaire soon.

I personally have read almost all the material on affairs.

imterrified ~ your wife is not your support group. Right now she is a wayward, and an enemy to your marriage.

Melodylane is an exposure expert, hopefully she'll pop in here and give you some direction!

You need to expose to her family, calmly, while telling them that what you want is to save your marriage. Affairs can not survive the light of day.

Wanting to find out if she loves him is simply WS talk for wanting to continue the affair with your cooperation.

Enable her no longer. You can't control her, but you can expose her. You can not work on your marriage until he is out of her life - she'll continue to pretend to work with you as long as you let her have her boy toy.

She gets to have her cake and eat it too. Alcoholic loser boytoy for fun exciting sex and romance, with you sitting at home paying the bills and holding her home together.

I agree with Pep, you should no longer allow your wife to travel unaccompanied. My husband manages a team of programmers and I know that every now and then, one of his employees has "life" happen, and they work from the road. One even went home to India for 6 months to be with a dying relative and continued to work.

Going back to my original point, Orchid's point to you is that you are only at the start of an incredibly painful journey. You need your support group, friends to you and to your marriage to hold you up when it gets to be too much. Your wife is NOT that person.

Imterrified,

BR is right on target that WW is NOT your support group.

One thing you need to get straight for yourself is what you are REALLY dealing with here.

You wrote



Ok, read that AGAIN.

Now read this that you wrote



Do you see it? How can she be doing BOTH of these things at the same time?

She Can't.

She CAN'T be as my WH said "Exploring his feelings for x"
at the same time REALLY working on your M.

Now, that is not to say that you are doomed or destined to lose her. The principles of MB are valid and you can save your M.

I just want to point out that it is important for you to really understand how CRAZY the WS mind is when the A is still active.

Until the OM is GONE, completely, and she has written him a letter of NC, etc, her SAYING she wants to work on the M means nothing.

Pep's idea of just showing up is GREAT! You can and should PLan A!!

I KNOW how hard it is just to form the thoughts and actions to do simple things like make a pot of coffee is in the morning right now.

I KNOW your pain, your sleepless nights.

You can do thia, but you have to pull yourself together and formulate a solid plan.

FIRST EXPOSE!!! Do It! Do It! Do It!

For me, THAT was the one thing that helped me turn the corner from being helpless and out of control, to getting my Plan together and feeling a bit like a real human being again! Now, I even feel like a Goddess sometimes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, keep posting! God Bless!

Today, I awoke and felt like a fog had lifted from my spirit. I went to church for the first time in months(You never realize how important faith is till you need it.), and was able to talk and pray with some friends. I have really taken to heart what you guys have been saying about how she can't be my support right now, which is a very hard thing. She has always been there for me and has always been the first person I turn to in times of trouble.

Exposure has begun as I spoke to her brother last night. Everyone has been so shocked, because this is so unlike her. I plan on contacting her parents later today or tomorrow morning.

I also have been working on my own support system. I had not told my parents what has happened, because I didn't want to shame my wife. I see now that I can't do this without their support and have to tell them tonight.

Thank you everyone for your continued support and advice. I will update you when the exposures are done and let you know the results. I am not looking forward to the flood of anger that she will have for me, but I will meet it with calm, reassurance, and respect.

Good for you, imterrified!! You took a very important first step to standing for your marriage!!! And that first step is a scary one to take, isn't it?
On a practical side, here are some things you can expect. If they do occur, do not take them to heart or feel bad...just tell yourself that it is going "according to plan" :

Your WW is going to be FURIOUS.
She is going to try every trick in the book to get you to stop exposing.
She will most likely say something like, "HOW COULD YOU HUMILIATE ME LIKE THAT?" -and-
"I CAN NEVER TRUST YOU AGAIN" -and-
"THAT'S IT! NOW I WILL NEVER LOVE YOU AGAIN AND WE ARE THROUGH!' -and-
"THAT WAS PRIVATE--JUST BETWEEN YOU AND I!"

imterrified, if you hear those things (and you will) just remember...it's going according to plan. Also those are very good examples of what we call WS Babble. That's when they talk and what comes out of their mouth makes NO SENSE. Just to help counter balance the WS Babble, let's go over what she said:

"HOW COULD YOU HUMILIATE ME LIKE THAT?" In real life (IRL), her behavior and her choices are what have embarrassed her. It's just that prior to today, her bad choices were hidden from plain view and now you have revealed what she wanted to keep secret.

"I CAN NEVER TRUST YOU AGAIN" She is the one who has acted in an untrustworthy manner. IRL, you have been honest from the beginning and by exposing you were being consistent. You are not keeping things hidden; you are not being dishonest; and you are being faithful and trustworthy.

"THAT'S IT! NOW I WILL NEVER LOVE YOU AGAIN AND WE ARE THROUGH!' IRL, she's just mad that her secret is now public, so she is applying the biggest pressure she can think of to make you stop and back off and let her continue her A. As I said, she will try every trick in the book that she can think of to continue her A.

"THAT WAS PRIVATE--JUST BETWEEN YOU AND I!" There is a difference between privacy and secrecy. Privacy is when you go to the bathroom and close the door...or get dressed behind closed doors so your children don't see you nude; however, the full and true YOU is revealed to your life partner and you are transparent. You let them see the real you--warts and all! SECRECY is when you have something about you or something going on in your life that you want to keep hidden. Secrecy is when thhe full and true YOU is withheld from your life partner and you HIDE what you are really thinking or feeling. You do not let them see the real you--it is a SECRET. She's mad because you revealed her SECRET.

* * * * * *

Part two of this post is some ideas for effective exposure:

Her parents--tell them you love their daughter and would appreciate their help encouraging her to do what is right to return to her marriage.
Her siblings--ditto "her parents"
Your parents--tell them you love WW but that you are going to need emotional support getting through this, and that you don't want them to think badly of her because anyone could weaken and have this happen. You just want them to help support and encourage YOU.
Your siblings--ditto "your parent"
Her employer--you need to inform them that someone in their employment has been having "unwanted sexual contact" with someone while they are traveling and possibly they are using company resources (laptop, cell phone, travel expenses, etc.) to facilitate the "unwanted sexual contact". This will give them the alert that they may be vulnerable to sexual harrassment, and THEY will put pressure on her to end the A or they may have to protect themselves legally. If you expose to HR via reporting potential sexual harrassment, they are required by law to investigate.
His employer--ditto "her employer". You report to his and her direct boss, THEIR direct boss, and HR--because sometimes a boss knows about it and keeps it under wraps or tries to "keep it in their department."
Your employer--inform your employer so that s/he knows that you may need time off, or so that they can understand why your performance may nosedive a bit. Usually, if you let an employer know and you've been a good employee, they will try to help you get through this AND keep your job.
Your pastor--if you and WW have a spiritual advisor (pastor, minister, priest, rabbi...someone!) tell them you love WW and would appreciate their help encouraging her to do what is right to return to her marriage.
Close, pro-marriage friends--ditto "your pastor"

This would be a THOROUGH and COMPLETE exposure. Not all these people will cooperate with you and encourage WW to return to the marriage (for example, some of her siblings may say they don't want to get into the middle of it or they want her to be happy), but don't be discouraged. Those who will help...will help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Those who won't...won't. But the more truth you reveal, the more pressure will be put on the A to stop it.

Keep writing!! We're here for ya. Now...batten down the hatches cuz the storm she's a comin'!!!

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Ter,
You are getting great information and support from CJ and everyone else. I am relieved that you have started the exposure. You really need to continue the exposure as much as you can as quickly as you can--so it is all done hopefully within the day. Then, as others have been advised, sit back with a nice tall drink of ice tea--put a little umbrella in it if you have one. What is your favorite tea? Mint?
Lake

CJ has given you stellar information

please

take it to heart

Exposure feels like a disaster! She was livid and felt I was making all the decisions for her. She did say a lot of the things that CJ said she would, and I responded in the recommended ways. But I feel like I pushed her away. She said the last few days had been great for us. She was even not wanting to talk to the OM as much, but now she does! I also told her I don't know how we can work on our relationship until there is NC. I really don't think that was the right thing to say. She was also very angry that I had spoken to the couple at church and feels like she can never go back. Also, she was angry that I spoke with her brother, and that I keep referring to what is going on as an affair.

On that note, her brother, who I respect and is my friend, did not think the exposure was a good idea. He said he thinks I should apologize to her for telling him and the people at church. He did say though that he is glad I told him, but should have waited for her to call him. He also told me a story, which I knew a bit about already, of a guy in high school that was terrible for her. But the more he and her parents pressed her the more she was pushed towards him. He said she was a smart girl and just had to figure it out on her own.

There was also another issue brought up that when she asked me to increase the cell minutes; I refused. I know she gets free minutes to talk to me, so the only reason she would want them was to talk more to the OM. When she asked me about the minutes I said, "How can I enable you to talk to the OM more. If you want to increase them, you have access to the site and can do it yourself." I said this calmly and not in a vengeful manner. She then hung up on me. My brother in law thinks I should apologize for this and be more accommodating.

I personally don't think I was wrong on most of what I did, but I am also beginning to doubt that the exposure tactic is what is needed in this case.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

imterrified,

Remember what I told you when I wrote...that she was going to react XYZ and say ABC?? And she did, huh? That's because I have been here on this site for EIGHT YEARS and I have literally seen hundreds of affairs--maybe a thousand. I know for a fact, as sure as I am writing here today that what you did was the right thing AND the surest and quickest way to END THE AFFAIR.

Apologizing and being accommodating with enable the affair to continue. So, it's up to you. Would you rather have your WW (and maybe her brother) be angry at you now for doing what is truly in their best interests and saves yourr marriage even though it makes them angry and hurts them a little...or would you rather apologize and be accommodating, have the affair linger on for years and have to deal with a fogged in WS for YEARS, with a high likelihood of the marriage ending? Which do you pick?

I know it feels WRONG, and I know it feels like "How can she possibly love me if I pushed her away?" but what happens is just like a child that has a punishment for being naughty. The child gets mad, doesn't it? The child says, "I HATE YOU!" and stomps away. But a GOOD parent will still punish the child in order to teach it right from wrong and bring it up properly. The parent risks the child being TEMPORARILY angry for the greater good of raising a good adult! Same here. She will in fact be temporarily angry, but once the A is busted up and NC is in place, she will begin to come out of the fog and see that you did it for the greater good of the M..and for her!

So stay the course, my friend. I know all your "spidey senses" say it feels wrong, but I give you my solemn promise this is the right thing to do.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Dear imterrified ~

She will get over it. Her response was an attempt to bully you back into her control. You were allowing her to play both sides and she wants you to go back to doing that!

I exposed my husband - I found over 30 emails, when printed almost 2 inches thick - and I delivered them to his parents.

He was furious. He said all of the garbage CJ wrote about (it's a script, they all do this).

His parents could no longer believe his spin about his 'friendship'.

Our 6th year anniversary of recovery is August 1st.

This is not a sprint, this site does not offer quick fixes - there are no such things.

Offer your brother in law a copy of SAA if he will be open to understanding what you are doing.

You are getting GREAT advise here!

Stay the course my friend. Believe me, the feeling of it feeling like exposure was a disaster will pass. You will feel better and stronger once the inital waves of the storm have passed.

One thing I asked myself when going through it was this - 'What is the WORST thing that could happen? What will he do? Can he divorce me MORE?!'

Hang in there and keep listening to CJ and BR, they are great!

I ditto everything. Exposure ain't fun. But it is necessary. You've done a very brave and courageous thing. Who said being brave isn't about not being afraid. I'm terrified most of the time? I can't recall, but it's from a movie... it applies very well here.

You are doing everything RIGHT.

Remember, your WW is delusional and truly thinks that SHE is the one who is being wronged. She's gotten away with keeping you under her thumb for so long, she thinks that that is how it's supposed to be.

My FWH took it for granted that I would be afraid. Most WS's do. They think that they hold the best hand because they are still there... and they will use that card as long as they think it will get them what they want.

Exposure is hard. And very scary. You will lose friends, but gain respect. You'll gain respect for YOURSELF. Because you stood up for what you believed in.

Keep it up. Stay the course... stay strong and keep the faith. You are taking the higher road, but it isn't the easiest.

Ter,
Please do not apologize to her right now, even if you feel at this moment that we were all wrong and that you want to apologize. Just wait and think about it for a bit. Because if you do apologize, it will just reinforce her in her feelings of entitlement. It will make it all the harder for you to deal with her in her next steps of waywardness if you apologize now. For example, if you tell a child no and then they scream and cry and you say, ok, yes you can--they learn that to scream and cry help them get their way with you. The next time you try to tell the child "no", you will be certain that they will try to scream and cry to get their way. See what I mean?

So even if you are not sure that what you did was the right thing to do, just wait and think about it for a while, don't apologize to her.

My take is the same as everyone else. She was happy because you were allowing her to procede with OM and she also still had you. She can say that she was considering not needing OM as much as before but it sure did not sound that way when just the other day she was telling you that she wanted to see him while she was out of town-remember?

You are doing the right thing. She is doing the same thing to you that she did to her family when she was young. But now she is an adult and you are your husband. This is a very different situation than when she was a kid and could act out her independence with her family.
Lake

Ok, imterrified, please calm down. Your exposure was a success. You got the anticipated response that we see on here every day. I think it is important that you understand that your wife’s affair is an addiction. Her mentality is that of a crack head right now. What you did was the equivalent of turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in a crowd. The CRACKHEADS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO LOVE THIS. Count on that. They are FURIOUS!

Do not back down now. Don't let them scare you off the battle field with a lot of empty huffing and puffing. They want you to stop interfering in the affair. You do this at your own expense.

We wouldn’t avoid measures to separate the crack head from his crack just because it will make him mad! After all, the goal is to sober him up, not to appease him at all cost. The alternative is to allow the crackhead to continue killing herself with crack just to avoid making her mad. Wouldn’t that be silly? It is the exact same premise here.

You have done a GOOD THING, imterrified, you have interfered in a great way in her affair. Her AFFAIR is the greatest threat to your marriage, NOT HER ANGER. Please memorize this statement, because you will need to hold onto this through these trials: MY JOB IS TO SAVE MY MARRIAGE, NOT TO AVOID MAKING MY WIFE MAD AT ALL COSTS.


It is your BEST WEAPON against the affair, so don’t let your BIL’s lack of experience and knowledge scare you off. This is a tried and true measure that was devised by Dr.Bill Harley, a psychologist. He has saved one or two marriages over his 35 yr career.

You owe no apology for exposing her affair, she owes an apology for HAVING an affair. It was unrealistic of him to expect her to bust herself to her brother and there is no reason she should have done the exposing. That sort of defeats the whole point.

IT, don’t let this ANTICIPATED reaction scare you off as it is intended to you. She will do or say anything to MAKE YOU STOP interfering with her affair. It would be a HUGE STRATEGIC MISTAKE to allow her to be successful in that regard. When someone is in the process of destroying your marriage, you don’t ENABLE them in that regard, you do your best to fight for your marriage. Appeasement will only land you in divorce court.

And DO NOT APOLOGIZE!! That would be a disaster! Your W is trying to MANIPULATE you into thinking you have done something WRONG by exposing her. YOU HAVE NOT!

She is trying to shut you down with inappropriate GUILT. If you fall for this tactic, I assure you that you will be handing her ammunition AGAINST YOU that she can use to justify her affair.

It is WRONG TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, it is not wrong to EXPOSE an affair. <---------say this over and over and over to yourself so you don't get manipulated into a false reality leading to inappropriate guilt.

It would be WRONG to continue to keep her dirty little secret for her, because that is ENABLING.

..wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair.....wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair.....wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair.....wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair...

I sent my brother in law a lot of information from this site. I am sure he will read it, and I hope he will see the wisdom in it as I have.

I had one short, terse conversation with my WW. She is obviously still angry and probably will be for some time. She comes to visit this Sunday, and I am going to do everything I can to meet her ENs and to be the best, most attractive man I can be.

My doubt about this method has not been that deep. With much thought and prayer, I feel in my heart this is right path. The problem is defending the decisions I make to my support group when all I can say is "the people on the internet told me". This remark is in no way to be taken as offensive by anyone here. Hopefully, by sending them the same information I have they will also see the wisdom.

As it sits right now, I am still on Plan A.

But it was not "people on the internet," it was Dr. Willard Harley, the founder of one of the worlds most successful marriage recovery programs, Marriage Builders. He is a trained PSYCHOLOGIST with 35 years of successful clinical experience. We are not giving you our little "opinions," we are giving you MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles.

Principles that have saved many of our marriages.

While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Dr. Bill Harley's credentials: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi2000_meet.html

imterrified, is your wife reading this thread?

No. She has no idea I am talking to you guys/gals on this forum.

I really see what you mean in your last post. I am taking the advice of a world renound psychologist that has a proven track record of saving marriages. In all future conversations with family/friends that is how I will phrase it.

Thank you.

BTW, what column is that quote from? I don't see it in the "What Are Plan A and Plan B?" columns or the "Coping with Infidelity: Part 2: How Should Affairs End?".

I'm not sure where ML got her quote but here is an excellent article along the same lines:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

That is what he posted to PEM over on the other side of the board: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...=&PHPSESSID

Here's a good link About Dr. Harley Sr.

Yes, I understand that you have not (yet) spoken to Dr. Harley himself...but we are using principles that HE developed.

Exposed to her parents tonight. We shall see how that shakes out over the next few days. Once she knows I doubt she will be coming to see me this weekend.

Meanwhile, I intercepted a new message from her to a friend. In reference to my telling her brother she said, "Meanwhile, OM has been AWESOME about it all. He's been patient. He's listened to me...OM wants to marry me. BS wants to stay married to me. One's my husband. One I want to be my husband...".

My God!...I have nothing to say...

imterrified,

I'm sorry that you had to see that. It tears at the heart, doesn't it? But I want to politely remind you of something. That letter is also WS BABBLE -and- the person to whom it is addressed is not a true friend. A true friend would encourage her to do what is hard and brave, admit that she was wrong and do the right thing by working on her M. A true friend would tell her to her face, "What you are doing is wrong, and as long as you choose to do wrong, I continue to encourage you to do what you know is right." A true friend would risk her being mad for a while for her greater good as a woman and a wife. The person she is writing to is an accomplice at best.

Stay the course, my friend. Do not deter! You ARE doing the right thing. The waters may get very rocky here. The fog will break and regather...break and regather. You be a lighthouse and lead her back to the M.

Meanwhile, let me interrupt her WS BABBLE for you:

"Dear person who only sucks up to me rather than doing what is really good for me.

I almost had DH compliant and accommodating, but now he is messing it all up. The LTW (Lower Than a Worm) is not happy that his name is being drug through the mud, and we have been arguing about it, but LTW says he's willing to wait and see if it blows over so we can continue our A. LTW wants to have me on call to ***** whenever he wants--I know that he could not possibly actually commit to me because he is lying, cheating and sneaking now and those are not consistent with commitment. DH wants me to admit I was wrong and do the right thing, but I am stubborn and I WANT to do what I know is wrong...so I'll blame him and make him sound like a monster. I made a vow to him...but I want out of it so I can be with a man who does not know what trust and commitment mean."

See?? Just smoke and B.S. (and I don't mean betrayed spouse).

Your true and faithful friend,



CJ

CJ,

This "friend" is not a true friend, but is actually a friend of the OM with which she talks.

Should I keep all these messages that I am intercepting a secret? I have been saving every one of them to an encrypted folder on my computer for a record, and they seem to give me insight into how things are truly progressing. It also shows me that she is lying to me when we talk.

Update:

Well, it looks as though the question of me confronting her about the messages on MySpace is moot. She asked me straight up today if I had been on her account, and I told her the truth, as I always do, that I had. Interesting how that happened right after I was talking about it. Again, I know she is not on this site. She had to go do a show, so we didn't get into it though.

I read in another post or maybe someone posted it here the difference between secrecy and privacy. She will probably say I invaded her privacy, but in truth i exposed her secrecy, which is a large part of why we are in this situation. Furthermore, as I have read in the MB material there can be no secrecy in a marriage. She is a much better arguer than I am, so I am sure she will find a way to turn it on my at least in her own mind. The truth is on my side though. I know when she can't face the truth, cause she just hangs up on me.

I have a feeling the next few days are going to be a ****** storm.

this is a marathon - not a sprint. Hang in there, and post here as much as you need to.

There are some pretty awesome husbands on this board, you are in good company.

Update:

WS's anger seems to be subsiding after the exposure. I am trying to do everything I can to meet her EMs, although that is hard with her being in another state. She will be here Sunday though, and I am working out what all I should do while she is here.

On another front, the alcoholic OM got drunk the other night and called yelling at her about wanting her to leave me. She told me about it and made silly excuses for why he was drunk like, "...his friend kept giving him drinks, and he doesn't know when to stop". I can see her future if she leaves me for this guy, "He hits me, but I deserve it.". It feels like my life has become some bad lifetime movie or soap opera.

Tired but carrying on...

We told you that she'd get over it.

Plan A does not mean you have to be a doormat. You do not have to put up with her telling you the intimate details of her adultery. You know already that he is a low life scum, you don't need further evidence!

You can calmly and politely either change the subject or end the conversation whenever she starts telling you about OM.

There is no point in discussing him. That she is flaunting this in your face is like twisting the knife she has in your back. You are not going to change her mind about OM by discussing it, so just don't allow the conversation to go there.

Respect yourself, even if she does not respect you.

When she arrives...no relationship talk. Just be upbeat and happy to see her.

Can you go back with her when she leaves?

She arrives Sunday and leaves on Wednesday, but I am going to visit her that Friday night till Sunday. Her tour is in a city close to where I live now, so I will be able to see her every weekend for the next three weeks. Thank God!

I hear what you are saying about talking about the OM. I had it in my head that if I let her talk to me about it that I was meeting her conversation EM. I don't want or need to hear that stuff though.

Meeting her need for conversation is good.

Meeting her need for conversation in a way that does serious disrespect to you is bad.

You are her HUSBAND (not her friend - and they all just want to be "friends"), and this is terribly disrespectful to you and by allowing it, you do 2 things, you condone behavior that is destroying your marriage, AND you allow your love for her to be damaged also - this drains your endurance and ability to survive this crisis.

You have to take care of you right now, she won't.

Is there any good information on the MB site, that you know of, which talks about the role of being a husband vs. just a friend? One of my WS's complaints was that she felt we were "roommates" and not lovers anymore. I will do a search and see what I can find on my own too.

Have you exposed to OM's commanding officer yet?

Oh...and when you do, make sure you include in your exposure to him information about this call where OM talked about "her leaving you for him".

VERY DAMAGING and clearly indicative of adultery. And as I said, this is punishable under UCMJ. Tell his CO ASAP, and request that his CO put a kibash on OM calling or communicating in ANY fashion with your wife.

Seriously, do this TODAY!

I have been having a hard time finding his unit information and his CO. Never having been in the military myself, I am shooting in the dark a bit. I do believe I can get his unit information using a bit of social engineering, but I haven't gone this route yet. I have also thought of hiring a PI to do the leg work for me.

imterrified ~ here is what the Harley's say about conversation;

[color:"blue"]The need for conversation is not met by simply talking to someone. It is met when the conversation is enjoyable for both persons involved. Good conversation is characterized by the following: (1) using it to inform and investigate each other, (2) focusing attention on topics of mutual interest, (3) balancing the conversation so both have an equal opportunity to talk, and (4) giving each other undivided attention while talking to each other.

Conversation fails to meet this need when (1) demands are made, (2) disrespect is shown, (3) one or both become angry, or (4) when it is used to dwell on mistakes of the past or present. Unless conversation is mutually enjoyable, a couple is better off not talking to each other at all. An unpleasant conversation not only fails to meet the emotional need, but it also makes it less likely that there will be an opportunity to meet the need in the future. That's because we tend to prevent our spouse from meeting our needs if earlier attempts were painful to us. [/color]

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html

OK...what specific information do you have on OM? DON'T POST IT HERE.

But, if you have his name/rank/base or unit, you should be able to do an online search for that base's "Post Locator". Call them, and ask them for his unit/mailing address. Or even better, do a search for his base's name and the phrase "Inspector General", and call THAT office and inform them of what's going on. That will create a situation that NO ONE will be able to avoid.

Even if you just have his rank, last name, and unit, you can probably do a search for his unit on the internet, and call his CO.

What information do you have on him? Don't post his name and such, but post if you've got his name, rank, phone number, email, whatever...let me know what kinds of information you've got on him, and I might be able to help you get started.

Thank you Bramble. Do you think I should show this to my wife, so it sets some ground rules for when we talk? She says she is willing to work on our marriage, so she will probably be receptive.

We actually had started reading the basics posted on the MB site together before the exposures occurred. She didn't want to talk to me for awhile after that, but now that she has calmed down, we can probably start working on it again.

I have the following information on the OM:

Full Name
Rank
Position (Meaning type of work he does in his unit.)
Address
Telephone

Plan A is not about getting your wife to behave. It's about your behavior. I just want you to see the difference between allowing her to treat you like a doormat, and showing respect for yourself.

You do NOT have to tolerate her calling you to cry about the latest drama with the OM. When she does this, change the subject or respectfully decline to continue the conversation. That is how YOU show respect for YOURSELF, and how you show respect for your wife's HUSBAND! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would not attempt to educate her (another lovebuster). You could ask her to participate in a phone session with Steve Harley. If you get her to do this, Steve will be able to give you fantastic insight to your wife's state of mind and a good solid plan for how to act.

OK...so do you know if he's in the National Gaurd/Reserve, or active duty? If reserve/NG, then do a search for NG/reserve units in the area. If active duty, find out what the name of the base is there and do the search for the IG as I'd suggested.

Seriously, I'd get this going today. Get the military to order him to cease contact with your wife...because if he violates that order, there are any number of things that they can do to him. When you talk to them, be polite, up front, respectful. If they attempt to blow you off, tell them that you KNOW that infidelity is a direction violations of "the articles of UCMJ". (UCMJ=Uniform Code of Military Justice) Explain to them that you're asking for their assistance in putting an end to this situation.

If they refuse to do anything for you, get their name, rank, and unit. Then ask to talk to their superior. If that person refuses to help you, ask them to provide you with the phone number for the AG/IG office. I HIGHLY doubt that you'll get ignored, however.

The sooner you take this action, the sooner that they should put an end to his conversations with your wife. If your wife continues to remain in contact with him, you can work with his CO's office or IG to take further action against him.

Your wife will be FURIOUS all over again on this...don't let that phase you.

Day 1 of WS's visit:

I surprised my WS last night by meeting her at the airport and was disappointed that she expressed no excitement. We didn't even hug till we had been standing at baggage claim for awhile. She did seem appreciative that I had cleaned the apartment, and that I had bought a bouquet of flowers, which I put in a vase on the coffee table.

She also said that I looked good. I hit the weights hard this week and managed to lose about 5 pounds. Most of that was due to just not eating due to the depression. I am not overweight, but since my competition is a frickn' Marine, I figured I would try and beef up a bit.

We also held hands on the way home in the cab and slept in the same bed. It felt awkward. I wasn't sure if I would be able to sleep, but fortunately I did. She is actually still sleeping now. Her show is pretty grueling, and she is worn out. I couldn't sleep much past 8am though.

I took the day off of work today, and we have a whole bunch of things planned. These are all things that have historically been a lot of fun for us together as a couple. I am looking forward to it, but I am also nervous. I am doing my best to stay or at least act happy, and I am trying to be the best man I can be.

Owl: I should have the OM's unit number in the next few days. I will let you know how it goes.

Good luck!

PLAN A YOUR BUTT OFF RIGHT NOW!!!

Show her what she's going to be giving up by continuing on with this loser!!

Oh, and don't forget the sense of smell too. Make sure you shave everyday, wear a nice cologne or aftershave that she likes, and dress up a little. Don't overdo it, but make sure that you're looking/smelling/feeling good!!!

Don't initiate any marriage or relationship talk right now. If she does, STAY CALM, no matter what she says or does. Limit how long you stay on that...and then get things back to something upbeat and fun!

The idea is to win her back...get the picture?

Hang in there...you CAN do this.

Day 2 of WS's visit:

We had a wonderful time yesterday. I made her breakfast, we went to the movies, shoe shopping(I think shoe shopping is an EN for my wife!), and had a nice candlelit dinner at home.

On the down side, my taker is kicking in. She only talked about herself really and never asked many questions of me. I had to initiate every little bit of affection. The fun playful flirting that had been so present at the beginning of our relationship is still not there. Things seemed almost normal, which isn't good. (We got in this situation, because we let things become "normal" and didn't meet each others needs.) I think all the trying to meet her ENs drained some of my love bank for her, which is already dangerously low. This caused me to wake up this morning pretty angry. She could tell, but I think I was able to calm myself and smooth it over before leaving for work.


Today, we are going to meet for lunch, and we plan on going out this evening together. It is probably a good thing I went to work today. It will give me a chance to cool off. She has agreed to do the EN questionnaire tonight, so I hope this will give me some more insight into how to direct my behavior. She leaves tomorrow morning, but I will be seeing her on Friday through next Monday.

Must stay calm, confident, and happy.

I don't have the energy or force of will to post the final day of my WS's visit. Hopefully after work, I will.

I do have a question today though. I have read on the forums some people doing Plan A for as long as 16 months. If you have a Plan A with no deposits in the LB for your WS, how do you stay in love enough to not just give up and find someone else? Also, aren't you really prone due to the low LB balance to stray yourself?

Yes, which is when you begin to go to your plan B. When you're concerned that your lovebank is going to run out due to the massive withdrawls by your WS. And after you've completed some length of a STELLAR plan A that shows your WS what they're losing when you go to plan B.

Make sense?

It does. Thanks Owl. I need to figure out what I can do to make my Plan A truly stellar. I understand the concept of working on yourself, but I should write down the things I need to work on. I also need to think of the things my WS complained about and what we did when we were dating that really brought us together.

IM:

Before you can start worrying about 16 months in Plan A, you have to START Plan A.

You may only be there 2 months.

You have been reading jwmc95's thread. He was in plan A for a long time, but he had killed the A and his wife was home with him.

Continue reading his thread. Many excellent things in that thread.

But, just so you know, Plan A can become a way of life. You treat her better, you become a better person, and the whole life experience becomes better. That is what Plan A starts to lay the ground work for.

Eventually, the WS returns, and hopefully starts responding to your Plan A efforts and starts to learn and apply them in her behaviors to you.

That's the goal. And it happens around here. Alot. Sometimes it doesn't.

What happened during her third day with you?

Good luck.

LG

I did an 18 month Plan A. It was too long and my lovebank did do long, dying gurgle. However, at reconciliation, it was open for filling.

Don't worry about the length of Plan A at this point. Commit to a month or 2 months, keep 6 months at the back of your mind, but renegociate with yourself if it is time to go to Plan B or not if your W has not ended the affair.

Thanks for all the great post concerning the length of Plan A. The advice is very helpful and encouraging.

Sometimes in the midst of all the pain and anger, I begin to lose hope and think that I should just end the marriage. I begin to feel that even if she does end the affair that I would somehow be the conciliation prize. I think about that fact that we don't have any kids or a mortgage, and that it would be easier to untangle our lives than to go through this pain. Then when it is quiet, and the anger has subsided. I realize that what is easiest is not always best. I love my wife, and I truly believe we can have a wonderful life together. I also believe that we can love each other like we did when we were dating and first got married. For these reasons and many others the fight must continue.

I will put a day 3 summary in the next post.

Day 3 of WS's visit:

I sadly had to go to work on Day 3, but we met for lunch at our favorite Indian place. I only went back to work for a few hours, and then she met me at my office after work. We went to Dave & Buster's (Adult Chuckie Cheese), played some skeeball (Her favorite), and some shooting games (My favorite). We had a blast while we were there, but the mood really dropped on the way home.

When we got home she seemed depressed as was I. I think how much fun we had together really opened our eyes to what we could possibly lose. She started packing her stuff while I sat on the bed trying to help as I could. I began to get really down and felt very panicky. (Side Note: Our physician gave me a Xanax prescription after D-Day for panic attacks. I don't like drugs, and I have only taken it when I was in a very bad way. I hate to say it though, but it has helped when things were at there worst. I don't plan on refilling it though.) I had told her about the Xanax prescription before, but she asked what it was for and what symptoms it seemed to help. I then explained to her that after D-Day I could not eat, work, or sleep, that I would pace the apartment, and that the state of our marriage was all I could think about. This seemed to have a very profound effect on her. I could tell it really tore her up to know that her decisions had cause me such a deep pain.

About an hour later she went to take a bath, and I sat in the bathroom with her talking as I had done in the past. While we were talking she began weeping and asked me to hold her. She said she was so sorry for the pain she had caused me. (This isn't the first time she had apologized, but it was the first time that it felt from the heart or that I had really been able to hear it.) She said she felt like such a bad person, and I told her she wasn't a bad person but had made some bad decisions. She talked a little about how she couldn't make a decision between the OM and I right now. She said she wasn't ready. She did also tell me that the reason she had not been affectionate or shown emotion the whole time she was here was because she felt like she was going to cry every second she was with me. She said she just suppressed all her emotions instead.

I woke up this morning in an angry state, because I felt like so little had changed in the last two weeks. I guess I was expecting a quick fix where there is not one. I pushed the anger all aside as I took her to the bus station. We said our goodbyes, and I went off to work. I hate to say it, but I felt a sense of relief watching her go. I don't know how you guys do it with your WS's living in the same house. The whole time she was here it was like this 8000 pound gorilla was following us everywhere. Still though, I am looking forward to seeing her on Friday though, 8000 lb gorilla and all.

There is a moment you realize your totally ******. That moment for me was tonight. I made a huge mistake and vented my anger on my wife. I unfortunately chose to listen to my friends and family that were pushing me to demand some sort of decision from her. As you all can guess it did not go well and of course the slickster OM was there to pick up the pieces. I knew I had made a huge mistake and apologized to her for venting, but oddly enough my massive LB was not the moment of realization.

The moment I am talking about is when it came out that the OM is going to spend two and a half weeks with her in August. He will be staying with her in an apartment that she will be renting while her show is in a certain city for an extended time. He will be sleeping on the couch of course (My [censored] alarm hit the ceiling.)! She says she is doing this so she can make sure she is not looking at him through "rose colored glasses". She thinks that she will see the real him in that time and know if she truly "loves" him.

After this information came out I decided to take stock:

1. I have a huge LB deficit (Probably wouldn't be as bad if I had kept it together.) OM has a huge LB surplus. I have roughly, if all the days are added together, a weeks worth of face time with her before OM visits her in August. I tried to make more by saying I was going to leave work for a month and stay with her wherever she is at, but she says that isn't giving her any space.

2. OM is a very, very slick talker. They have seen each other maybe 3 times over the last year, but he has managed to radically seduce her just using the phone. I have never considered myself slick especially on the phone, but it appears to be one of the only tools available.

3. With the face time restrictions, it seems that even if I Plan A my [censored] off for the next month that my chances are brutally slim of building up enough deposits in the LB to counter act the week and a half of he will be spending in her bed.

Feels pretty over for me, and I feel utterly hopeless. I told her I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with all this information, and I needed some time to process. As you can tell by the time of day this was posted, I have been processing all night.

write your plan B letter...

you really in this case have no choice...

in my opinion it should come before the two week stay from he&& with the loser so that it can not be used as a knee jerk weapon over him staying there....

travelinman wrote one of the best plan B letter I have seen...I will try to find it...

there is no honor or any thing good in his or her actions..

all their words are false

take no stalk in what they say or do...

it is all shallow and empty words and actions...

I will find the lighthouse post for you my friend...

ARK

when you go dark...

you must go pitch black....

with no slip ups....

are you able logistically to do so....?

ARK

Do you really think it is time for Plan B, or do you think that Ter should work on stopping this meeting of the jerk and his wife from even taking place. I understand that this jerk is Military and that Ter was in the middle of finding out more info in order to contact his CO.

Since I never had to deal with this level of betrayal and fog, I don't feel I am able to advise, but my gut says stop this sick get-together from ever happening. This jerk is a number one jerk and if I recall the earlier posts, an alcoholic or at least a heavy drinker. Not that all that matters as an OP is a low life scum whether or not they are alcoholics but it just seems as though there is the ability to stop this get-together from happening.
Lake

I agree with you, Lake. He's not done with plan A yet. He's had a setback, but that's ALL it was...a setback.

Ter-

You NEED to expose to OM's CO...TODAY. Take a few hours from work if you need to, and make those phone calls. Believe it or not, its actually VERY good that OM is in the military...because they have FAR more control over his personal life than any civilian employer could. They CAN order him to cease any and all contact with her, on threat of quite a number of things.

STEP UP AND DO THIS NOW!

And as far as your LB's with your wife...well, two thoughts. First off, the next time you do talk with her, simply be honest. She's hurting you so bad with her current behavior that its a constant battle for you to deal with all of this...and you slipped. But make it clear that when/if she gets OM out of the picture, there's no reason that this would go on. Second, work on refilling her lovebank by meeting the emotional needs that you can for now. STICK to your plan A.

Plan B isn't ready yet...you've got to rebuild the love bank up from your recent lovebusters.

Go get OM's CO engaged, now. Go back and re-read what I'd posted you about how you do this, and how to talk with his CO. Be ready...and get it done. Your wife will go BALLISTIC when she hears about this, so be ready to deal with that too. As a matter of fact, dont be afraid to call her friends and family immediately after you expose and explain what you did and why...so that she can't do damage control and put a spin on this like you're acting crazy.

Its not over yet...hang in there.

Owl:

Is it still viable to call his CO if he has not been recalled yet? He is supposed to be recalled for training in October, and then deployment in January. Right now the guy is just working as a waiter waiting to be recalled.

Ter,
I am certain that Owl will tell you, YES as soon as he see this. Please do not delay--speak to the CO. Do you know who he is yet?
Lake

I don't have the OM unit number, and I am not sure how to get it out of hiring a PI, which mighttake too long. I have done exhaustive searches all over the internet and even used Net Detective without luck. I do have a way that I think I can social engineer it out of a buddy of the OM's on MySpace. I am going to do that now, but who knows when the guy will respond.

Ter, all states have Family Readiness Coordinators for the National Guard, usually with an internet presence and phone number. You could try calling that office to see if you can get his unit number. I don't know what information they are able to release, but it may be worth a phone call.

If they can tell you his unit, they can probably give you the name of the CO and a phone number.

Ter:

First off, you have been married for 5 years.

You found out THREE Weeks ago about this A.

You found this site two days later.

Give the plans time to work.

You state that the OM will have more time than you with her in the next month.

So fix that.

Go spend some time with her, where she is at.

You state that OM captured her with the phone....

No he didn't. He captured her by TALKING to her. He just happened to use the phone to connect with her.

So call her. Ask her how her rehersal's are going.

Avoid R/M Talk, and if she brings it up, then address the specfic issue and then change the subject to something else.

Date your WW again.

Talk about your day, and her's. Weather, the town she is in, the town she is going to, what you going to do with her when she comes by the house.

You might have to spend some money between now and the end of the year. Saving your Marriage.

But the Divorce will cost more, and you can make her pay all the costs, anyway....

Remember, you have only been fighting for 3 weeks. Don't throw the towel in so early....

LG

OK...Ter...here's what I'd do.

You know his name, rank, and generally what he does, as long as where he lives.

I don't know what branch he is, but I'm sure you do. Get your phone book, look up for a branch recruiting office in his area. Call the recruiter, tell them that you're looking for the national gaurd/reserve unit(s) in that area. Don't mention OM or the situation, just ask them how you could contact the NG/AR units that are in the area.

Then, use the info he gives you to call those units, and ask to talk to the CO, or company First Sergeant. Ask them if they have OM in their unit. If so, then explain the situation as I've already suggested.

Alternately, you could do a 'google' search for that same info that you'd ask the recruiter.

Understand...even if its an NG/AR unit, he's still considered a member of the armed services, and to the best of my knowledge subject to UCMJ regardless of current status. I wasn't in the NG/AR, so I could be wrong.

Try that, if that doesn't work, I'll keep brainstorming.

So far calls to reserve units in the area have been a bust. Is it possible he is still attached to a unit outside where he lives. Possibly to the unit he was with in Iraq?

Yes,
that would be a good possibility. Do you know what unit he was attached too? or what location the unit originated from? So is he living in a different town now than when he was deployed to Iraq?
Lake

breaking it up is good idea......
here't the thing...

I am not sure that one SHOULD plan A while a WS lives with OM by her invitation for 10 days...

I am not sure that there is ANY respect in that act.....
and that one should plan A right up to the point....

in my opinion too damaging to ones true inner self....

make no mistake there is nothing respectful about an affair...

but some actions are way way over the top....

and in my opinion call for drastic measures...

in my opinion anything but dark will only do certain things....

to much plan A will sound like condoning this action

during plan A you communicate clearly the pain contact causes...

how would these conversations go??

too much risk for powerstruggling
too much risk for lovebusting big time

if it was me it would take an act of GOD to keep me home...and not go there like a mad dog...myself...
torture...

one option is for imterrified to go away and be completely dark....

then pick up afterwards...

but dayum....

I guess the real question is what is your exact plan imterrified to deal with occurance.....

but it can NOT be placating or condoning....

ARK

As of right now, I have not made a decision on how to proceed. I want to think about all the advice I have received from you guys and other people counseling me. I do not want be hasty in what I do next, because I feel my next step is the most critical of all. So please have patience.

I do have one goal that I am frantically trying to achieve and that is to stop this "lovers rendezvous" set for August. To that I end I must get the OM's unit number. There is no guarantee that even when I get the number that it will stop the communication, but it is my best shot right now.

One interesting side effect of leaving her in limbo over what I am going to do next is that she seems to have taken a bit more of an interest in saving our marriage. She has been sending me text messages all day saying how she is thinking of me, wants me to call her, and that she is not going to give up on our marriage. That last one is especially confusing.

I agree with ark in that I cannot fathom sitting by while my wayward spouse shacked up with OP to see how good it could be with OP as if it were a real life relationship. UUGGGH.

I do not advise Ter to sit by and allow that little shack-up to take place. But, if he can get to a CO so that he does not have to take other measures like move in with them, or get her fired from her job so she has no reason to be in that town, or disable her car or other means of transportation when she is at home so she has no way to get there, or......

If slug/derelict/alcoholic can be called off in some manner, wouldn't that be better than some other measures that could be taken to disable the shack-up?
Lake

Confusing?
fogeese translation: I am not leaving you, I am just checking out this other person because it feels so good to me to get all this flattery, etc from him. Just hold on for a while (I don't know how long.....) while I feel these good feelings from this OP. I want my cake and I want to eat it too. Just stand in line, I'll probably be back, I'm not giving up having you too. After all, you are a patient man--right?
Lake

Lake,

Your WS babble translation is priceless. Thank you. I needed a smile!

I feel this way too - she's even told me in the past that she wanted to "try out" the OM and then come back to me if it doesn't work out! I told her that you don't treat people this way and she claimed it was just a thought flitting through her head.

Dear Ter,
I'm glad that you can still laugh, but somewhere in there I meant to indicate to you that it is okay for you to communicate to her that it is not right for her to be doing what she is doing to you. It is a fine line, I know, that I never had to implement--to tell your spouse without love busting, that it is not right for her to consider whether or not she wants to [email]skr@w[/email] the other man. Read over what Ark wrote, I think he communicated it well. I'm sure that you already know this and I am telling you something that you don't need to hear again, but gee whiz, this stinks!
Lake

The question of the day is do I stay or do I go? I can hop on a bus tonight and stay with her this weekend. If I go it means I am starting a all out, 100% Plan A. If I stay it must mean I am preparing for Plan B.

I have prayed and listened to counsel, but the path still seems very unclear.

You need to have a clear mind and calm heart t/d a good plan B. Your mind and heart have t/b in sync. Is it?

L.

yes you should go and plan A this weekend...

in my opinon you should knock her socks of plan A up before she plans her play live in situation...then plan B OR have some alternative plan...

like leave the country..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

try this link on for size...for while you must not powerstruggle her contact....

you should speak it's truth....

when in plan A feel free to say.,...............

ark

So here is what I am going to do. I am going to Plan A my tail off till August. If I am successful in stopping the OM from shacking up with my WS, then I will probably continue with Plan A. If I can't stop it then, I will start Plan B after my trip to see her in early August.

I now need to plan my Plan A. I am going to spend most of the day checking out other Plan A threads to find what works, coming up with romantic ideas, and researching the city I am going to be in this weekend.


And ark. If Plan A doesn't work, I probably will leave the country. Have computer will travel! Lets pray to God it doesn't come to that though.

plan a tips

seek out peps the stick and carrot of plan a

ark

Just got to the hotel where my WS is staying. She is in a show right now, so I did some snooping on her computer. She did a google search a few days ago for "ghonoria". Too bad she misspelled it she might have gotten some better information. I am going to have to ask her again very directly if she had sex with the OM and get tested as soon as I get home. You know I thought I might feel a bit more shocked, but I am not. I feel I don't even know this person anymore.

My father in law wisely suggested that I don't confront her about this now. He thinks it would cause a huge argument, and I can't have any more LBs with such a short time to run on Plan A. It is going to be hard, but I am going to just have to suck it up for now.

Update from this weekend:

As most of you know I spent the weekend with my WS. Things went wonderfully! I really worked hard to meet her needs and used a lot of tips from "HIs Needs Her Needs", which were invaluable. We talked and laughed for hours on end, and it really felt like we were dating again. I also did some romantic things like draw her a hot bath and fill it with rose petals. While she was soaking in the bath, I read her a short story.

I also spoke clearly and directly about my pain (Thanks ark!). There were a few times that the pain was overwhelming, and I told her about it. Every time I was honest about what I was feeling, she seemed to respond with apologies and obviously felt very guilty that she was the source. On Friday, when I left, I thought that I may have a 10% chance to win her back, but now I think that probability has jumped to 25%.

She came home with me yesterday and will be spending another two days here. I am ditching work today to be with her and will be seeing her again this coming Friday. Hopefully, I can double my chances of getting her back in the coming weeks.

One thing that was helpful which seems a little odd, was that I did some research on seduction. I did this research not as an attempt to get her into bed but to learn to talk to her on an emotional level. Some of the tips actually worked quite well in creating a receptive emotional state in her. The site is http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/. I in no way endorse the stupid, high risk behavior that this site seems to promote, but the tips on "mirroring", "echoing", and reading body language were really helpful. Furthermore in my situation the OM seems to be a practiced master at many of the principals expressed on that site, and it is always helpful to know your enemy.

I am pretty sure I have found the OM's unit number. I plan on trying to call today, following Owl's advice in the conversation, but my WS is still in town. So it may be tomorrow.

So I got the battalion officer of the day number, and I plan on calling it this afternoon. I really hope they can point me to his CO. Wish me luck.

imterrified ~ good luck, you are doing the right thing.

Be prepared for her to be angry again. Have you gotten all the other exposures done?

Bramble,
All the other exposures have been done. This one has been the hardest, due to lack of information concerning the OM's unit.

Update:
Strikeout on calling the 1st Battalion. The duty officer said he was not a part of the battalion even after I talked to him about the OM's reserve status and recall. There was a lot of evidence that this should be the correct battalion, because of location. The OM told my WS that when he is recalled he is going to be in the same location for training. I had high hopes that this was the one. I will be calling the other battalions today.

OK...call that Bn SDO back. Ask him for help...ask him if he can get you in touch with a post locator service that would help you find OM. Do NOT explain the situation to him, simply tell him that its urgent that you contact OM.

If he cannot or will not help you, ask him to put you in touch with the Bn Chaplain. And ask HIM for assistance.

Also, while you're talking with that Bn SDO, ask him what Inspector General's office would support his Bn, and ask him if he can either get you the number to that office, or can he put you in touch with a public relations office that can assist you further.

Once you've got a number, use it to track down LOTS of other numbers that might get you to someone who can assist.

Make sense?

I talked to the Marine Locator service for the base, and they did have record of him serving in 2005. They did not have any information regarding his reserve status or who his CO is going to be. I tried to get the name of his old CO, but they didn't have that either. I think I am going to have to hand this off to a private eye and maybe they can get somewhere. I will have to tell them I need it done ASAP.

Update from this weekend:

Plan Aing my tail off still. We spent a lot of time together talking and having a good time. I took her to the park for a picnic between shows, fed her chocolate covered strawberries, and read her poems by Lord Byron. I picked the first one randomly from a book but, fantastically, it was a poem about him losing a women to another man.

I definitely think more deposits were made on my part into her LB, but I also feel she made many debits. I feel utterly emotionally drained and am looking forward to some time away from her. I will see her again the 1st through the 5th of August, and if the PI doesn't come through by then Plan B will begin by the 6th. I will probably spend a lot of time this week and weekend preparing. At this point I am almost looking forward to Plan B, because I don't have much left to give.

I almost forgot. I found out the OM has a pending assault/deomestic abuse charge against him. I searched through the public records of my home state and found the evidence. My WS already knew and of course made lame excuses for him. This guy is a total dirt bag, but she is so fogged up she can't see it. I hope she opens her eyes up before it is too late, because she will have a terrible future ahead of her if she decides to be with him. I don't know who said it, but it is true. WSs don't trade up.

I hope everyone is well.

I'm not surprised...my wife is deathly allergic to cigarette smoke (triggers asthma attacks), and gets nauseous at the smell of alcohol.

So of course, her online OM was a heavy smoker and drinker.

She was ecstatic that he was "going to quit for her". I laughed, and asked her if she REALLY believed that it would last. She insisted it would, "since he's doing it for me".

Now of course, she can see how insane this reasoning was. But she sure couldn't then.

Keep up the plan A. It sounds like you're doing some good there. And planning out for your plan B makes good sense too. You're doing the right things...but remember you've got to keep pressure on her to end the affair as well. Keep it going friend.