thanks. i suspect you know what i am saying.

have a good weekend.

Hey, no problem. I DO know what you are saying.

I did have a good weekend... well, my 11 month old is pretty sick with an ear infection, but it didn't stop me from enjoying some time with my family.

Glad to hear you had a good weekend, mine was good too.

I hope your little one is feeling better now.

I will probably regret asking this, but I think it EVERYTIME I see a group of FWSs come together in an "us vs them" situation, so I'm gonna put it out there...I always marvel at those situations because personally I would question myself when I looked around and saw the company that I was keeping...I would think, 'Hmmm...there are a lot of us FWSs whining together...we were for sure wrong at least once in our thinking...perhaps there is something still amiss there!' And then I would go and run whatever it was that had me up in arms past Mr. W, my mom, my counselor and other trusted friends...I CONSTANTLY monitor my own thinking to make damn sure that I NEVER go down a wrongheaded, wayward path again...And I don't just mean wayward in terms of infidelity either...I mean in ALL aspects of my life...I am curious if you guys do this...looking from the outside in it doesn't seem so...Why not? Just "wondering"...

Mrs. W

MrsW.

Count me in as a FWW who constantly monitors my thinking as you described above. IMO, it's a way to insure I will stay on the right path. I don't EVER want to be anywhere near where I was when I made all the wrong choices.

LC

This is not a FWS vs. FBS issue. If you'd like to make it about that, by all means it's your right. It's about some poasters attacking and twisting words of others on here. If you ask a question for clarity or state your opinion you are sliced and diced. I don't know that it matters if you are a FWS or FBS. Of course though, if you happen to be a FWS, it does seem to be all your fault because you're the bad one, you are the one who made a mistake, you've got the Scarlet A on your chest.

I personally don't want to debate this topic ad nauseum. Everyone is firmly on their side of the fence, what's the point in spinning my wheels? I CAN and do sympathize with FL2H. I have had my words twisted against me. I posted one time I understood how couples could go down the very bad path of swinging to add "spice" to their M. I never said I did it, or that I had any desire to. Yet, I was lumped in as a swinger myself, I was told I had no morals or values. It was rediculous. And it's always the same group of people.

So, call it what you'd like Mrs. It really doesn't matter. Many of us just don't see eye to eye here. It's nothing to lose sleep over, IMO. I already know there is a group here that will defend each other to the death. It is... what it is.

At the end of the day, I'm still married, I have two more beautiful children, and my H and I are very happy. Good things are starting to happen for us. That is what really matters.

And yes, FLT2H, my baby is doing better every day. He's back to his smiley, happy go lucky self again. Thank you for asking.

lifeschoice...It is very evident that you "self-police" and are always looking to learn and keep growing...You have very much earned my respect...I feel lucky to count you as a friend around here...

familycomesfirst...Really I was only trying to figure out why it seems to happen around here a lot...I thought you might be interested in questioning yourself and growing...I personally do not see myself as the scourge of the earth and I don't wear a scarlet letter, but I am aware that I did make some really horrible choices in the past and because of that I remain vigilent about my thoughts...I have learned the hard way that you can become what your thoughts are...I don't see myself as a victim and I'm gonna be real honest with you and tell you that many of your posts here convey that you do see yourself as such...That is a horrible way to live and I don't wish for you to remain stuck there...I hope you will give some thought to a change in your perspective...It would be of great benefit to you and your family...Take care...

Mrs. W

FL2H & FCF,

My experience is that we earn respect and lose it, if our POV differs. Instead of following the lead and looking at our POV, remember that others have opinions, just like ours. Consider how much you valued their opinions before they bit you so hard. Humans we are, one and all.

It happens. Still hurts. I get it.

I wonder if I don't have that "will always be the bad guy" because of being an FWW because my DH was a FWH, too, or because the whole POV of "good guy" and "bad guy" was removed my marriage?

That POV is a killer, isn't it?

LA

I'm curious, how do I come off as a victim? I see that tossed around on here a lot too. How do you know from what very very very little I have posted here that I see myself as a victim?

I have changed my mindset A LOT in the last 5 or so years. I used to get really upset when something happened in my life. Now I weigh it's overall impact... as long as my family is healthy, anything can be dealt with. Washer going out, H laid off of job, unexpected pregnancy, car breaking down, etc.

See, that is what drives me nutso here, you know only a teeny tiny bit about me, yet you make very wide assumptions on my state of mind. And I don't mean that as an attack. THAT is what I find happening here a lot. I didn't say I see myself as the scourge of the earth and that I wear a scarlet letter, some posters treat FWS's here that way. I would rather not name names.

And I'm not going to work my hiney off "earning" the respect of posters here that I don't respect either. I've earned back the respect of my H. He knows me day to day, he's SEEN me at my worst and my best. I value that the most.

LA - I see where you are coming from. I appreciate both of you showing caring and concern. It really means a lot. Many here don't have the same approach and they put me (and others) on the defensive.

Like the old saying goes... you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

fcf...

I get that from your crying "boo hoo" about "certain posters"...I get that when you feel it is your job to "protect" others that you feel are being "attacked" on threads, rather than just jumping in and offering help to those in real need...I get a real sense of "me against them" from you...It's not just you...there are others here that seem to identify in that way too...I just wonder why you all don't question it in yourselves ESPECIALLY when you look around and see that the ones who agree with you in this way are also FWS...THAT is what leaves me scratching my head...

And I can just about guess without your naming names who you are refering to that you think think of FWS as wearing a scarlet letter...I'll bet you those same people are my friends, and I can guarantee you that they don't see me that way, a big part of that is because I don't see myself that way...

And I wonder fcf, is part of why you remain in this mindset because you haven't be 100% open and honest with your husband regarding contact with OM...Secrets like that eat away at your soul and don't allow you to properly heal and grow...I urge you to practice radical honesty in your marriage...

A little more than my .02...

Mrs. W

-emphasis mine

"They" have no power to "put" you anywhere...fcf, YOU are in charge of YOU and YOUR REACTIONS...You can't change others, but you can change your own reactions...

Look, I'm not trying to handle you with "kid gloves" here...I could, I'm southern, I recognize the need to sugarcoat, but it's a PITA in writing...much easier to do in person...I'm speaking to you grown woman to grown woman-I believe you to be strong enough to handle that...it is NOT my intent to hurt your feelings...I'm just trying to give you the brass tacks that I have time for before going to the grocery store...lol

Mrs. W

CFC,

I like that abbreviation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You will never guess why I suppose. Just the scientist in me I guess.

You said
Then you mention that Mrs W makes grand and sweeping generalizations and complain about it. Kind of odd don't you think?

What you haven't seemed to notice is how many people have read your threads and how few have responded. Your posts may be well recieved by most and not by a few, you have no idea.

I will say, that having been here many years, most FWW's are well received and actually cherished on this site for their insights and assistance. I have read a few of your threads, and felt you weren't seeking any help or insight and that you felt you had it all figured out. Hence I don't recall ever posting to you.

I have on the other hand posted to many other FWW's and a few that weren't "former" yet. I don't and have never felt the need to label them with the scarlet A, because the basic assumption was and is that they came for help. I suppose you did as well, but in my passing through your threads you never seemed to be seeking any.

I also know that on occasion your advice appeared to be the opposite of the concepts on this site, and most here are pretty wedded to those concepts because they have and do work and this is after all a Harley site.

I do think it might be an over statement to state that FWW's are frequently attacked on this site.

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Post deleted by familycomesfirst

Okay... since I'm of so little use or help here I'll just ask JustUss to delete my account and I'll be on my merry way.

I never said only FWW's are the ones attacked on this site!!!

Man... I really do need to just leave.

Have a nice evening fcf...

Mrs. W

bye. have a happy life.

Oh, I will MEDC. *****edit********

nope..I dumped the abuser...
but I am VERY happy and loving life ****edit*****.

FCF,

Interesting. I posted what I thought was a reasonable post, suggested that many are not against you, stated why I had not posted to you much AND... you decide to leave.

I did not say you had nothing to offer or anything of the sort. I said I had not posted because you didn't seem to be seeking any advice or thoughts. I guess me offering you some really was offensive.

Wasn't the intent, but if it sends you scurrying off, it is your choice.

Best of luck in your life, and I am NOT being sarcastic.

JL

familycomesfirst glad to hear it. kids do bounce back fast.

MrsW. I'm not sure you have enough of a view of me to make that decision. Nor do I have enough of a view of familycomesfirst to know anyting about her, in fact that was the first and only post i had read of hers. I was not thinking us vrs them when i started this thread. I just wanted to say thanks.

Yes, I do watch my thinking pattern.

I don't know. I have read everyone's responses here multiple times now. and I have thought about my response to Captain's thread.

I just don't know. and I don't know how figure it out.

do i have a victim's mentality?

i just don't know. i personally don't feel like a "victim". there are things in my life i'm not thrilled with that i don't feel fully capable of changing on my own. but i am trying.

does that mean i'm acting like a victim??

i didn't like the way the exchange occured last week, specifically with melody. i was trying to ask her a real question, and her response back to me was frustrating. and my conclusion, that she was doing it to be mean, remains.

it happens.

incidentally, i found an opportunity to tell DH that i remembered those moments i was talking about in Captain's thread. i told him how powerful those moments were and i thanked him again for teaching me how marriage means never giving up. which he has certainly showed me quite clearly. he remembered the specific moments too.

JL, this has nothing to do with you. This has been building for some time now. If I'm unhappy and frustrated here I'm going to do what's best FOR ME and leave.

"i didn't like the way the exchange occured last week, specifically with melody. i was trying to ask her a real question, and her response back to me was frustrating. and my conclusion, that she was doing it to be mean, remains."

This is what I sympathized with. I wish you nothing but the best FL2 in your recovery.

just read the most recent posts happening here.

it's a shame. this place is here to help us.

maybe this is what it takes sometimes?

It's tirades like the one above that indicate that you view yourself as a victim, fcf...THOSE are YOUR REACTIONS and YOU have control over those...No one here said that you were "of so little use or help"...that came from YOU and YOUR perspective...That is what I was trying to help you adjust...

And if it's been six years or six minutes it doesn't matter...Your husband should be told the WHOLE truth-he deserves that...You realize that you rob yourself of intimacy also when you hold that in, right? Which of course robs your husband of that too...and further down the line it robs your children of seeing what a truly happy and intimate marriage should be...Why on earth would you want that?

Mrs. W

what MrsW is saying is worth hearing familycomesfirst.

it's ok to be frustrated and not like the way some people are. no one loves everyone. Except God <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

but adding the part that "since I'm of so little use or help...." is not a constructive thought pattern.

FLT2H...

I saw Capitan's thread and your advice...Honestly, I think that it is a combination of all the advice given there would help him...I questioned your reaction on that thread though...No one came in and disparaged the advice you gave...it was allowed to stand on it's own merit...But then you came in and seemingly "scolded" others there for not regurgitating or endorsing the same advice you gave...I did not then and do not now understand that reaction...The only thing I'm left to consider is that perhaps you didn't fully have the confidence to stand by your own advice without the endorsement of others and that upset you-and you chose a "them against me" mindset-I dunno, only you do I suppose...Then the whole thing shot into flames...but who caused the initial spark there?

Again, I asked because I am puzzled when a group of FWSs come together seemingly "against the board"-especially when they start making cries of "you're so mean" and that kind of thing...Personally, if I was a part of it, I would question myself...I just wondered why some of you don't seem to...that's all...

Mrs. W

MrsW. i was bothered by the advice of others because he was asking for something he could do and others gave him flipent answers.

i didn't need anyone to endorse my advice. I did later ask Melody to explain to me why she thought my advice was not good.

wheather or not it seems to you that i question myself, rest assuured i do.

ya know what, upon reflecting on all this stuff...

i did post too harshly last week. I could of felt what i felt, which was a strong negative response, but then choose to post more respectfully. asking questions instead of blasting my feelings.

i figure i might as well just say that.

even with this relection, i do believe melody had just as much of a hand in the nastyness of our exchanges as i did.

Mrs W,

On the drive home from work, I got to wondering.

This question is very sincere.

Do you belive Melody conducted herself at all times in a mature/appropriate manner during the couse of events last week?

Am I not looking at this objectively enough?

Is that a fair question? shouldn't be be concerned wit how you conducted yourself..or address Melody directly if you so choose?

Methinks somebody is "sincerely" trying to change the subject to avoid looking at herself. How objective is that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

But would that be a justification for your own "nastyness?" Do you allow your children to justify their own bad behavior by pointing to others? Do you think that is a very mature trait?

Hmmm...lots of pondering going on while I was at the grocery store I see...

Okay, here are my thoughts/opinions on last week's drama around here...

As far as your advice on the thread was concerned, I think it could have stood on it's own merit with the poster of origin...meaning he could take from it what he needed...However, your post alone would not have been enough...it needed balance...BECAUSE...waywards as you know are a nasty breed...giving his WW tons of his faults on a silver platter would likely backfire in a BIG way further fueling her rationalizations and justifications which is DANGEROUS...I also know that there are kernels of truth in what waywards say...usually highly exaggerated, but some truth nonetheless, so because of that I felt that what you were trying to get across did carry SOME weight, but it's a fine line, IMO...Honestly, I think the best thing that a BS can do when being shot with the nasty rationalizations and justifications of an active wayward is to acknowledge and ignore...usually the wayward is placated by that, and that is enough...With the horrible things that the wayward is doing and the obvious immaturity that they are displaying sometimes flippant answers fit the bill...It's a really delicate balance and I am awed by the BS's that tread their way through it only a daily basis...that takes major strength and grace, IMO...

Regarding the "behaviors" of you and ML last week, I'll say it again FLT2H, the WHOLE enchilada could have been avoided if you had let your post stand on it's own merit-seriously, you could have chosen to even add more of your brand of help rather than "scolding" the others-that's just the way I see it...Other than that, the only thing I know to do is what my dad often did when my brother and I were younger...SPANK YOU BOTH TO BE SURE AND GET THE RIGHT ONE!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hope something I've said makes sense...You realize, of course, that it's just my lil ole opinion anyway, which is worth exactly what you paid for it...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

mkeverydaycnt,

it is a fair question because what i am questioning is if i am looking at this objectively enough.

hence my concluding question to MrsW was: "Am I not looking at this objectively enough"

Melody, conclude what you want, that is your choice. This is not about you.

Mrs.W. Thanks for you post. I certainly agree I should of counted to 10, or 100, whatever I needed to seperate my own issues/triggers/buttons from the act of just posting to help Captain. that is why i posted to begin with. I believe i pre-faced with saying i did not really know Captain's specifics. But his questions made me remember what DH did, how strongly it impacted and eventually helped and so I wanted to share.

and your balance thought is a very good one. i whole-heartedly agree.

and this "the best thing that a BS can do when being shot with the nasty rationalizations and justifications of an active wayward is to acknowledge and ignore." I also agree with.

It seemed to me that Captain was looking for some ideas of what to do in the moments in between.

when my DH apologized to me, it was not in response to anything i had just done. It just came from him.

anyway, my focus will strongly go back to taking/using what helps me, giving from the heart and letting everything else go by.

thanks Mrs.W, your lil ole opinion is what i was seeking, i do believe I got my money's worth.

editted to fix all my mistakes!!! been a long day.

Of course its not about me, which is why there is abcolutely no reason to bring me up if you are sincerely looking at yourself.

melody, what is your motivation behind posting to me?

i'm looking at a specific situation that occured last week that everyone already saw. and it did include you. what's the big surprise there? It's not like i'm dragging your name out of secrecy here.

FLTH, what is your goal in dragging my name into your supposed "sincere" self analysis? What does that have to do with your own behavior? Do you imagine that you should feel free to talk about others without being challenged on that immature behavior?

Maybe you are just confused?

Melody, your posts are full of DJs. if you are trying to challenge me on immature behavior that you believe i am doing by posting my question to MrsW all I can do is respecfully disagree with you.

my question was sincere.

i have nothing further to say to you. It is clear we are incapable of communicating constructively with each other.

I see, so you are unable to rationally explain the obvious discrepancy in your statements?

ok, if you really want to continue this...

i see no discrepancy Melody. The question to MrsW was not about you. It was about my perception to a situation that did in fact include you.

i hope that clears things up for you.

editted to attempt to make it even clearer for you.

Did you read your question? Let's read the question together and see if it was about me or not:


Perhaps you meant someone else named Melody on this board? Was that question about this OTHER Melody?

FLT2H...

If you'd like my opinion on this...


Here it is...

The way that question was worded it certainly *seemed* that you were trying to mitigate your behavior based on the behavior of another...NOT a good idea, IMO...In truth, it reminded me of what I used to do as a kid about my brother to my mom or dad...as an attempt to take the "heat" off of me...In all sincerity and honesty I do think that warrants an apology from you to ML...Again, just my opinion...

Mrs. W

Humbleness, IME, is very healing and good for the soul...

Mrs. W

i left computer for a while to hang with kids....

the question you and Melody are quoting, did not stand alone, it was coupled with another very important followup quesion. am i not being objective?

why is it that the second question gets overlooked so much?

Mrs.W. i respect your opinion, however, in this case, I do not share it.

I did not ask you to explain to me why her behavior was any better than mine, i.e. 2 wrongs therefore making a right or anything like that.

i was seeking an opinion, an objective opinion. one to hold up next to mine.

i said exactly what i meant to say. it was a sincere question. and the concluding question "am i not looking at this objectively enough" says EXACTLY what i was focusing on.

i have tried to clarify myself, she continues to want to judge me as she does. not under my control.

I do believe not making DJs is something Dr. Harley higly recommends.

Yes, but Dr. Harley is refering to filling someone's lovebank when he talks of DJs...ML is NOT trying to fill your lovebank or anyone else's here FLT2H, and I know that you aren't either...That really is moot...

As for the other deal, I guess I'm just not following you then-I seriously don't understand what you are asking...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

oh, did someone DJ you, FLTH?

"i seriously don't understand what you are asking"

if by that you mean, the question "why is it that the second question gets overlooked so much?"

what i was saying is this. I did not only post the question asking you what you thought of melody's behavior, i also asked you, "am i not being objective enough?"

true or false??

and yet the first question, what do you think about melody's behavoir, is what is being soley focused on. even after i try to continue to comunicate that i was looking at myself and my perspective and wondering if i was not being objective enough.

if i followed up the question about melody's behavior with something like, "how is mine any different?" or if i had asked the question about melody on it's own without saying/asking anything else, then it would of been understandable that for someone to conclude i was trying to defend my behavior by trying to compare it to hers.

but that is not what i did.

i don't understand why this has been such a difficult series of post here tonight but at this point, it so does not matter to me anymore.

editted to add:
fyi, i am off to bed, i have to be to work early. good-night.

What in the world did she just say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

*scratches head and shrugs* Perhaps I'm dense, but I still don't get it...No kidding...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

I have to admit when I first started reading this I was a little chicken to post here, I don't want anyone to think I am taking their thread or getting in anything personal here.
I have not been on this forum very long and everyone has been wonderful and helped me so much.

Since there are some WS's here I would very much like to ask some questions since it was brought up on this thread.

My H does feel like he wears the scarlet letter and everyone is looking at him.

I am really not sure how to handle this, sometimes he is so distraught about what he did that he just hangs his head. I don't want to hug him and tell him its ok nor do I want to rub it in.

H say he is sorry constantly, almost to the point that I don't want to hear it anymore. I feel like I am moving past it and H is stuck.

Is this something that WS's do in the begining?

He has been told by the counselor that he is no longer allowed to use victim statements, and also no longer allowed to use "bad boy" statements.

H is on anti-depressents and seems more distraught then I am about things, I really am doingfine.

I hope I am not intruding on this thread, I really am sincere with my questions.

DF- In my experience with my wife, it took her a long time to get over the whole "scarlet letter" thing. I think the more they strayed from their values, the harder the time they have of it in recovery eventually when they really do get it.

WHY do you not want to comfort your husband? That is just punishing him. He doesn't need your punishment does he? Is he doing everything possible to repair your marriage? If he is then you need to cut him some slack.

OR will the beatings stop when morale improves?

DF.. I agree that the severity of the infractions has a lot to do witht the ability to forgive oneself. I also want to point out that my ex was not able to forgive herself until she came fully clean about her deeds...and I wonder if those that remain stuck in this self loathing do not still have some horrible secrets that they are holding on to....for mine it was the fact that my then 7 year old walked in on her persorming a sex act for her "friend."

So, perhaps he is stuck for a reason. I would just flat out ask the question. If he has come totally clean I would say that your taking a somewhat neutral position might be okay...but it could benefit him to know that you have forgiven him and that he needs to do the same. Let him know that his continued beating himself is keeping this affair alive in your lives...if it is truly time to move past this into recovery, you cannot accomplish that with your H living in the past.

DF,

I am a FWS who was stuck for a very long time and felt I deserved to wear a Scarlet letter. That all changed for me when I accepted the fact that even though I did a really bad thing, I am NOT a bad person.

I felt the A would define who I was for the rest of my life, what I forgot to think about was I was a really great person for 38 years and that wasn't all erased by one bad thing.

Since your H has had multiple A's it will probably be harder. Has his therapist introduced him to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? Once I learned how to apply CBT to my life I became unstuck and was able to move forward.

From you signature it appears his A's were long ago, is that correct? If so, secrets take a toll whether people believe it or not. He has a huge hurdle to get over if he had kept a secret for that long. Keeping the secret for 15 months almost killed me, I can't imagine keeping it as long as he did, if that is the case.

He did this to himself it is his responsibility to work his issues out. Therapy is a great place to start that process.

LC

BK, No, I am not about repeated punishments. I did move out with every intention of filing for D. All I wanted was the truth after all these years. I knew of one A, but did not know about all the others. I always knew something wasent' right. I am not discounting 17 yrs of H being a decent H, although H can and has been very spiteful over the years about many things and I never understood until recently when I finally called H out. I just don't want to comfort H when he is so sad for what he did, I do tell him that it dosen't make him a bad person just that H had no boundries and was selfish. H seems to no longer be that person. H is working harder then anyone I have seen to "fix" the hurt he has caused. I just think that there should be a happy medium on the comforting. The MC said that one day H would realize all that he did and H would fall apart and that is what is happening. Just not sure how to comfort without saying its ok, or walking away and saying ha ha told you so, there must be something I can say that dosen't completely let H off the hook about how hurt I am.

MEDC,
H swears he has come clean, infact he swore on my kids lives. Believe me I do not for a moment think that if H is lying that something will happen to my kids, but at the same time if there is a lie I am liable to beat H into a bloody mess if he is. H has done nothing but lie with every step of the way. H has never ever had a confession only admissions with interrogation, coercion, and threats. H constantly shoots himself in the foot every step of the way. has an admission then takes it back.

Lifechoice,
Yes this was a long time ago. With the last gossip of an A years ago, never was I sure until recently, I told him that he could go on like it is and be single or do things my way, (quit playing music in clubs) and stay married. I tried to do the counseling thing years ago, he lied there to. With the last change of events we went to counseling again, he lied for 6 months. I gave him a choice back in Jan. tell the truth or I will leave and H can be single, he continued to lie, and I knew it to the core of my soul. I left, H has now come clean,maybe? will I always be leary?, still, not without lies the whole way.

Its been very difficult to say the least. I ask myself daily why I am doing this? why did I come back. I did, I came back because I do love H, do not want to throw away 25 yrs. H is not an evil nasty person. H has lots of friends, people that look up to him, H is smart and generous, H now sees how selfish and disrespectful he has been to me. We still go to counseling, as far as I know h is truthful there and here.

FLH,

I understand your post to mean that why is it MrsW and Mel won't answer your question, and yet continue to ask you theirs?

Don't answer. It's gaslighting. Understand this. Read Larry's threads on it. Your honest question as to your own perspective, because you understood ML doing what you were doing, only you got edited.

You own what you did...seems to me you're saying that's not in your code. You don't do this...name call...put down others in an effort to control...mock, define and bulldoze over.

I say that's a fine code. What you won't do to others, you won't do to yourself.

Understand that others do not have this in their code. And understand, what they do to you, they do to themselves.

Own just your half...if ML doesn't get it...that's her half. If MrsW thinks she's dense, then understand that's hers. Doesn't mean you aren't communicating clearly.

And remember there is projection...where we see in others what is in ourselves...catches our interest, our attention. And what we see may not be in the other person...just in ourselves.

You can't make someone else hold to your own code. Even those you admired, respected, gave great weight to what they advised...because like FCF said, we don't really know them...they don't really know us.

You can ignore their questions, too, FLH. My post, anyone's. Doesn't make you bad or wrong. In fact, I think that's what MrsW was advising from the Capitan's thread...ignore ML. She has her own advise, her own way, her own code. We can't change it.

LA

Edited to move my question to DF's thread.

LC

DF, I started another theead as to not TJ here.

Quote:
________________________________________

I understand your post to mean that why is it MrsW and Mel won't answer your question, and yet continue to ask you theirs?

Don't answer. It's gaslighting. Understand this. Read Larry's threads on it. Your honest question as to your own perspective, because you understood ML doing what you were doing, only you got edited.
________________________________________


And you think that anyone who disputes you using reason instead of emotion is "gaslighting" you, LA, because you find it confusing. It is shameful to see you encourage that same victim mentality in FLTH. She is not a victim, she purposely set out to condemn other posters ["this is disgusting"] on that thread and is only miffed because she couldn't defend herself rationally. Like the typical wayward, instead of making her case, she went into drama queen mode and cried "victim." [even though it was SHE who started the dissension]

That is the classic behavior of an immature person who cannot defend their position using facts, evidence and reason. Throwing a fit and crying "victim" serves as a diversion.

She was edited for calling me names yet you attempt to portray HER as a "victim." Suzet made false accusations against me [I am an unprincipled MOD] and yet, in your mind, SHE is the victim. So, just who is "gaslighting" here?

It is clear that it was FLTH's intention to talk about me, [her "perception" of me] yet she can't be honest about that. Any sane person can see her words. The definition of gaslighting, a term you so love to throw around here to hide your inability to use reason, is "persistent denial of facts." That is exactly what she is doing, so if anyone here is "gaslighting" it is she.

You know, LA, rather than encouraging waywards to escalate every little hurt feeling, why not help them handle it like a GROWN UP? You do this board a great disservice by enabling all this self centered victimhood because it detracts from others here who really are victims. Instead of focusing on people whose lives are being destroyed by adultery, we have to focus on the perceived slight of some self absorbed, immature drama queen. Why not help the REAL VICTIMS, LA?

gaslighting, indeed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Mel...I find it funny that you and I..considering we have had our own dust-ups in the past are considered so alike here. I think that people just have issue with those that refuse to allow injustice to go unanswered.

I actually consider it quite a compliment to be lumped in with you at times...even though you are a yellow bellied Texan! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

melody, you say i am not rational, you have called me sick, you have called me immature. you have called me self-absorbed.

i quite clearly stated my intention when i posted to MrsW. however you will continue to conclude as to what my intention was.

i see no constructive words from you Melody. only insults and rudeness.

this thread can become something constructive for DF so that is what i am choosing to focus on.

editted to move note to DF to new thread.

LMAO!

glad I could make you chuckle NOW.

I think that reason is not your friend, FLTH.

Words to live by here. I rarely even lurk here anymore. Once upon a time this was a place I counted on when faced with a horrible situation.

After several months, I realized the overall tone towards the WS... hindered my recovery... I started to view my H as tarnished, damaged, lying, worthless...some unredeemable slime.

My H is NONE of those things, NO WS...is any of those things..my H could NEVER live up to the expectations I found here...but after moving away from the CODEPENDENCY of this board... I used TRUE Harley methods, not opinions of what the Harley Principles SHOULD BE.

What a wonderful relief it turned into being. We are several years past the A... several years through recovery...and I came to realize that often the message sent here, is tailored to the audience.

The intent... I believe... of the MB forum...is to Build Better Marriages, regardless of whether or not you're the BS or the WS.

I know exactly where you're coming from, knowing I've been on that side of the fence as well...and I'm the FBS... go figure !!! LOL.

Hang in there...and take care.

I took all the hours I spent here every week...and invested in my family, my job, my friendships, my social life... and it was the best decision I could have made.

After all, my H and I work full time... it's hard enough finding those 15 hours a week together. I realized in short order...that I was having an EA with this board...and it was cutting into my marriage like an xOW. LOL.

Peace

betrayedinjersey,

thanks for sharing!! it's always so nice to hear about the successes out there. Peace to you too.

You don't HAVE to focus on that, melody .

NOW...just curious as to what your beef is today....you seem like you are itching to pick a fight so I say go ahead and do it face on instead of in the back handed way in which you are approaching things.
If you have an issue with me...or Mel..or anyone else...have at it. Get it out of your system.
If it is because your precious little Suzet isn't here any longer...that was by her choice even though she attempted to be deceitful in her portrayal as to why she was banned.
If it is something else...please...feel free to express yourself.

MEDC, I'm sorry you feel that way.

And neither do you, NOW.

betrayedinjersy,

i have to add, that this:


is a really powerful stmt. all i can say is wow.

there are times i feel like reading here is keeping me stuck. i think you hit the nail on the head.

MB has been a God send really, for myself and for my marriage. i must admit in the early days i worked really hard to let the nastiness handed out by some slide off my back. i so desperately wanted to find away to turn my life around. so i just focused on what would help me and didn't worry about anything that came across as mean. there were enough good souls here to listen to and learn from. not saying i ignored anyone that was hard on me, NOT AT ALL. Hard is the most helpful really. but mean is not.

I still post here because i believe the advice here can still be helpful and i also want to give back in anyway i can.

thanks again.

Now..don't get me wrong... i have no issue with you...I just sense you are ticked about something and itching to get it out. I believe in getting this out and handled..rather than letting them survive in the background. If you have an issue...feel free to share it. I have a very short memory for most things and hopefully we could move past them once addressed.

Yes, I know.

MEDC, honestly, I really don't have a problem with you, and even if I did, so what? I think you are a little rough around the edges, but I have also seen a very big heart, a good heart, in you.

If you think there is something i'm trying to get at in a back handed way, what do you think it is?
I asked you a question earlier, and you got a little defensive. That's fine, I wasn't wanting to push it.
I asked Melody a question, which she did not answer.

I wanted to know what was so funny about Suzet's thread. I asked Melody if she enjoyed poking fun at her. How is that being sneaky or back handed?

I laughed at your comment about people having issues with those who want to see justice served because, well, I am sure Suzet feels the same way.

That is all!

NOW

It's not disagreements that keep causing the dissension, IMO. Disagreements have always occurred and will continue to do so. People of good character can disagree on many things without having it degenerate into something damaging.

What I see happening is mockery or scoffing. Winking of eyes and high 5ing over the offended carcass of some more vulnerable participant in the guise of standard keeping or fighting "injustice".

Winning or playing the game seems to become more important than the person. A deliberate refusal to listen to people who are (however poorly you think they are succeeding) trying to be real with you (rhetorical you) and giving them gameplaying in return.

Scoffing is defined as "to show contempt by derisive acts or language."

It doesn't seem to be enough to point out a disagreement, or holes in logic, or that the advice does not line up with the MB standards - it seems that some are willing to use mockery, scorn, ridicule.

Disagreement with what a person posts can be limited to *what the person posted*. What is added when the response has nothing to do with what was said, but is geared only toward *who* said it? "You only say that because you committed adultery." "Discount what this person said because he has not informed the OW's husband."

God spoke through a [censored]. An attitude of "Pay no attention to those words, they came from a [censored]!" could place us in a position of missing God, IMO. Either the words stand on their merit or they don't. And if they don't, address the words.

Proverbs 22:10 points out that with scoffing/mocking comes quarreling and abuse, strife and insults.

That's what I see occurring. YMMV.

If I misinterpreted, i am sorry.

Based on Justuss response earlier, I hope that clears up what I meant by the drama stuff....and that is what was funny to me. That and the fact that she misrepresented some things that were said to her...but she also misrepresented her banning too.

And yes, i am rough around the edges. Believe it or not I have worked to get that way...it works well for me in all aspets of my life...even though it ruffles some feathers around here at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Again, sorry for the misinterpretation.

And the true power of this forum is thus revealed. Here comes Graplin with truth telling. What she said wasn't obvious to me but is now.

Larry

It's cool. I do understand what you're saying.

Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NOW

absolutely.

I consider the source all the time. It is the same as my posts to Mimi regarding her Eleanor Roosevelt thread....very inspirational thoughts to be sure...to me they are diminished because they came from a woman that committed adultery for 22 years with multiple partners, male and female.



So, yes, Graplin...perhaps we differ there, but I do always consider the source of the information. That is why I am here on MB...and not GloryB...I am certain I could get infidelity advice there too...I just find this site more credible.

So it is not always the words standing on their own, IMO...sometimes it is the person saying them too. Hitler had some great...noteworthy quotes about his belief in God...yet every last one of them is lost because of who the man was.

this is what i felt has happened from the onset and again last night. and i don't know how to respond to it.

in captains thread, my initial post of disgust with the way people were saying to act flipently was wrong. i should of taken some time, let my emotions calm a bit and then posted more respectfully. my mistake. it pushed buttons in me, i don't think anyone deserves to be treated "flippently". but that is my issue and i realize one that has roots due to the neglect that occured in my family of origin. i understand what others were saying to Captain and it makes sense too.

but how quickly it fell apart so much and became all of this, is crazy. i guess i have seen it before but it throws me whenever it happens here cuz i really don't expect this from people here. i suppose that is a unrealistic expectation. this is a large group of people, you are bound to have all kinds.

all i know is i am committed to conducting myself respectfully.

Yeah... uh-huh... there is NO ATTITUDE towards waywards on this board... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It's ALLLLL in our minds. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I have to wonder... how many people will have to complain about MEDC and ML before something is done? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It's funny because after the thread graplin got into with ML on I thought to myself that ML seemed to be gaslighting graplin by saying it was all her. All she did was ask for clarification and she was accused of ALL kinds of things that were unfounded by ML. Her words were twisted and misquoted. It's a common tactic used by ML.

I do think ML and MEDC offer a lot to this board. It's the way they bring out the worst in some people that's disturbing, then they turn it on the person like it's their fault. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

ML,

"And you think that anyone who disputes you using reason instead of emotion is "gaslighting" you, LA"

That's not what I think, ML. You continually telling me what I think or feel won't make me think it, either. Name calling isn't in my code. It's in yours. Labeling, DJing...because you do it often. And then you say, "That's okay by Dr. Harley, I'm not trying to fill your love bank." Nor my respect one.

It's working.

Disrespect remains what it is. To assume, mindread and then tell others what is solely theirs. That's what you're doing. No one can stop you. No reason to...doesn't say a thing about us...your assumptions speak of you.

"confusing. It is shameful to see you encourage that same victim mentality in FLTH. She is not a victim, she purposely set out to condemn other posters ["this is disgusting"] on that thread and is only miffed because she couldn't defend herself rationally."

I know what you do, ML. Your opinion is that I'm encouraging FLTH in her victim mentality. She's not in one. That's your opinion and MrsW's opinion, not mine. Not fact. You can say it all you want...doesn't make it the truth. Just yours. Which is valid. It's what you see.

You often say "this is disgusting"...you define what others are doing, what they're thinking and tell them what they should feel and think. That's you, ML. FLTH felt disgust, apparently. Her stuff. I have often felt disgusted...got that gut-turning over nausea for what I perceive as you mocking, belittling and bullying others.

What a blessing to me...because you have helped me tremendously in my life-long understanding of how others see me. I am very serious. I believe you are God-sent, in all your complex humanness to truly help others.

And I'm saddened that no one here seems to be helping you in yours.

No one needs to defend their position, ML. FLTH asked a question you won't answer. That's okay. You don't have to defend your position either...because it's not a position...it's your opinion. It's how and what you think. Not some universal truth...just yours and speaks of your stuff. You.

When Jesus said to love our neighbors as ourselves...he didn't say look to evidence and reason to do so. He said to do it. Part of love is respect...and I believe you don't show your own opinions great respect when you are out to change, define, prove others stuff to them...because it's NOT yours.

Their actions come into your domain...their thoughts, feelings, perceptions and perspectives...their BELIEFS remain theirs. FLTH invited MrsW to help her examine something which you both did. FLTH's examination is anything in the immature realm. She's considering, contemplating and checking herself.

You could learn from her, ML.

You have called me many names...on the authority that you can, through evidence and reason prove they are appropriate...as if they are more than your opinion. So has MEDC and others. I am not the victim of your bullying, nor was Suzet or FLTH...not because you didn't bully or gaslight, ML. I believe you do and do it extremely well. Because I know I'm your equal...and so are my opinions.

Took quite awhile. That you see me believing others are victims isn't real. It's your opinion. I see them as my equals...and you as the wayward you continually label others.

My opinion.

We've been round this mulberry bush a few times together...and when you choose to examine, as FLTH did on this thread...and see where "any sane person can see" is name-calling to whomever disagrees with your perception...then I'm here for ya. Really.

I remember being wayward...and doing a lot of damage in the name of evidence and reason...that's the fog. That's where up is down and you make me...and I'm right comes from. Still a lure. I remember.

You're not insane, wrong or bad, ML.

You're just really disrespectful to others who choose not to believe what you believe or perceive what you perceive.

" You do this board a great disservice by enabling all this self centered victimhood because it detracts from others here who really are victims. Instead of focusing on people whose lives are being destroyed by adultery, we have to focus on the perceived slight of some self absorbed, immature drama queen. Why not help the REAL VICTIMS, LA?

gaslighting, indeed!"

I understand you believe I do this board a disservice. I disagree. I believe in sharing...saying "I'm feeling pain" right now as an honest act...and looking for the source INSIDE. To me, that's what Suzet, FLTH, JJ, FH, (the list gets too long), are/were doing. Sharing. I confirm I heard their stuff as theirs...that they aren't crazy or backwards in their own thoughts...those are their thoughts and feelings...about them.

I'm not enabling...it's listen and repeat...acknowledging what is there's. I understand you don't perceive this...I get that you don't get that.

Self-absorbed drama queen...which one? You called me that, MEDC has called me a fraud, BobPure called me a drama queen, too...I don't see this as drama. I see it as disrespectful behavior in the name of Dr. Harley.

It's real...it's intentional...and your DJs are not enhancing this board...extending your opinions as fact will enable far more waywards with your proof and it's okay when "they" deserve it (MEDC's belief) than saying, "I see. I've experienced that. Stop giving your power away to someone who doesn't live by your rules." Which is you, ML.

You can shout until the roof falls in, ML..laugh, mock and declare...and it won't make me take your opinion as the truth. I respect it's yours. About you. And appreciate you share who you are--which doesn't enable anyone...nor do I. They choose.

You say my opinion is shameful to you. I do not feel shame for telling FLTH she's not crazy. You fire away with your opinions and questions...and say, "Hey, she started it."

Then you agree to rank immaturity levels of someone else.

And you can't see yourself doing this, ML. That's the really scary part to me.

Which helps me to feel fear and not react to it. You're as essential as everyone else on this board. And I don't choose to believe that people earn name-calling, DJs, etc. If that were true for me, then BS's would have earned infidelity. That's impossible. No one earns it. Ever.

Gaslighting is a part of infidelity...when the WS is telling the BS that their feelings, thoughts, beliefs aren't real...that they shouldn't feel what they're feeling...that they are the problem. That's what I hear you saying, ML. Very much the same. WS's saying stuff like "reason is not your friend" to the BS. WS say BS's are being irrational, self-absorbed...lots of the same stuff...and often, drama queens (making something out of nothing).

In understanding your opinion is yours...your truth, not the truth, I believe you're helping BS's and FWS's very much.

LA

4859

I am only going to say this one time, so pay attention ladies and gents.

DIVERSITY.

We have diversity here and that is a good thing. I do not like some of the name calling, but that is price we pay for diversity of thought processes and opinions. Graplin made a heckofa point that I had NOT even thought of. Mel might be the next one to so do.

We need the combined power of lots of people THINKING and if sometimes that means things get a little unruly, so be it.

Larry

agreed Larry.

Are we at 4858 yet??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

no...that's the number remaining. actually Mel is three ahead of me but I have been closing very quickly...I figure by the end of next week she will be in my dust!

LA, I cannot decipher about half of what you said because you speak in incoherent circles, but I will simply point out that this is simply "your truth," and not neccesarily THE TRUTH. I also see what you do, and the confusion in your posts. I have no doubt that its just easier for you to dismiss others as "gaslighters" than it is to focus on the source of your confusion: yourself. Just because you perceive something does not make it true or even rational, though.

I am reminded that I am speaking to a woman who believes that affairs are "gifts" to the betrayed spouse and instead views the wayward victimizer as the victim in most cases. [stated to a fresh BS: "She brought you a gift; a terribly painful, life-altering one"]

The truth is exactly as I said, that you do other waywards a profound disservice when you encourage this victim mentality. This thread and Suzet's are perfect examples of that. Rather than helping Suzet react in a healthy, adult manner to criticism, you encourage her victim mentality. You say nothing about her immature grandstanding and dishonesty about being banned. You say nothing to FLTH about her dishonesty on this thread or her completely unneccesary meltdown on Capitan's thread. You are an enabler, LA, and that makes me very sad. I know that your posts are very helpful to some, but the damage you do with your enabling hardly compensates for that, IMO.

i have not been dishonest on this thread.

i see no constructive words from you Melody. only insults and rudeness and now lies.

LA, i understood your post, of course, reason is not my friend, go figure.

if ML can not decipher it, that is her problem.

So now he's speaking in incoherent circles? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He was pretty [email]d@mn[/email] clear to me. You just don't like what he's saying so you do your usual... ridicule and deflect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Very well put, Graplin.

Seriously, I "hear" more disrespectful judgements on MB than in real life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Lori

LA is a SHE. I am glad it made sense to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

does not matter if LA is female or male.

is that the only thing you can pick on now Melody?

I find your circles coherent, LA. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Fox

4857

Ridicule and deflect... ridicule and deflect... yawn...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

My coworker is in a really pissy mood today, so she is over there typing a nasty letter to our governer, telling her how much she hates her. This is what she tends to do when she finds herself ticked off about something. She starts writing letters to politicians.

All I know is my freaking stomach would be killing me by now on this thread back in the day.

I'm too old now to take too much of anything seriously anymore.

I am making a mental note that if I ever do again though, I will get on word and start writing letters to politicians as well.

Larry did you say something? Can you repeat it, please?

I wonder if all these minds on here with their combined power could figure out a way to lower our gas prices?

LMAO Weaver!!!

I told her "everytime you get ticked off about something you start writing letters to politicians"

And she says

"d*mn skippy! that's what they get paid for"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

These threads always end at the same place:

"Everyone just agree that no one can tell someone else how/what to post and it's ludicrous to try to "control" other's behavior."

No one's going to agree to be nicer.

It's not going to matter if someone else things another person is a disservice, service, or neutral in terms of the board.

The real take home message is usually just not to respond to other people's posts that you feel are personal attacks or their critique's of your posts. Or, to put it simply, the easiest way to avoid a p*ssing match is to just walk away and let the other person drown in their own urine.

Even if you actually haul out actual rules of logic (vs. what gets called "logic" on this board which is closer to just making assertions that run the gamut of logical fallacies) and attempt to use that path as reasoning, it doesn't seem to help.

If you're interested in what I consider logic you can either access a website Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate about logical fallacies and debate or you can check out the first chapter of the book Discrete Mathematics and It's Applications 5th ed. by Kenneth H. Rosen, Chapter 1 "The Foundations: Logic and Proof, Sets, and Functions", pp 1 - 111, McGraw Hill, ISBN: 0-07-119881-4 which, I think, has a very clear, good approach to rigorous thinking, logic, reasoning and actually being able to prove assertions as truth or fallacies.

My conclusion: This site is probably not really interested in serious, structured debates. That type of approach probably wouldn't seriously enhance the boards because "people problems" or "relationship issues" do not tend to lend themselves well to "logical proofs" or "structured debates" anyway. Though it would make things more comfortable for some people who enjoy the use of real logic and rigorous thinking.

Why not just skip to the end and just get to the "no one is going to agree" part?

Mys

Wild, thank you for sharing, and FLTH, too. Good to know when I'm understood and when I'm not.

What ML said is really true:



She summarized well what I was saying. I believe she doesn't see this apply to herself. She can perceive people making themselves into victims when they are not.

Notice bringing in something which I wrote two years ago, which BobPure also did earlier this year, irrevelant and out of context to this discussion of me enabling wayward mindsets.

Up to me not to follow the tangent, take the bait. Takes two to participate in gaslighting.



I think it's interesting you see it easier for me to "dismiss others" when that is what I often perceive you doing. Dismissing. I wasn't dismissing. I understand you heard me that way.

I was acknowledging.

What I heard from Suzet, FLTH and JJ was what I have said, too...is anybody hearing this? Am I crazy to feel attacked, degraded, slapped down right now? Re-reading your words...not understanding mockery, diversion, the straw-arguments...the components of gaslighting.

I wanted anyone to step in and say, "You're not crazy. She is really doing that." Not measure your intent, DJ your reasons...state yes, this is what you're doing, ML.

That's what I heard from FLTH to MrsW. To say, "What's real?" because we know we can be reactive, misunderstand, hurt and not know where it's coming from. And like FLTH, MrsW answered me by saying, "What? What am I doing?" When someone took a pot-shot at her, BigK, MEDC and you, ML, all launched yourself at that person.

So I felt a little crazy, off my rocker, when none of you said, "That was a low blow." Instead you said, "What blow? There are no blows. You're a drama queen." And laughed.

That's what you did...and when good men stand by and do nothing, they too are doing evil.

Which is what I said then. I believe it now, too.

I'm not standing by without sharing...you're not crazy, FLTH. I don't understand the dishonesty salvo anymore than you do. And I don't need to understand it. It's ML's. She knows. We don't. What I'm doing is saying, yes, it's a salvo. An opinion salvo, FLTH.



The fresh BS was Larry. Still is, in fact. The one who made the threads about gaslighting.

This is the diversion, the tangent to the discussion...you go to credibility. Mine is equal to yours, ML. God's design. What you did, though, is of note...you took the truth of what I said and added to it...expanded and called it my belief...and it isn't. You say "instead views the wayward victimizer as the victim in most cases." That's your opinion, not my belief.

I see you have a radar for victims and victimizer roles, though. And I wonder if this push to point fingers, define who is the victim and who is just playing at it, is something you've been working on in yourself? Seems very important to you to tell others when they are victims or not.

If you knew your partner was cheating on you before you married him, and married him anyway, would that mean you weren't a victim? Or he wasn't a victimizer? Or would it be two humans not telling the truth to themselves and living with the consequences?


That's not the truth...that's your opinion. Can you not see where you do yourself a grave disservice in not understanding what is the truth for everyone separate from your own truth? Your opinion is valid. In your view I am doing harm. I get that. I hear you. I consider your opinion, ML.

My concern is within your marriage...if you do this...and your opinion differs from your H's...do you keep telling him what you are saying is the truth, which makes his belief invalid?



I cannot make Suzet react in any way. You believe she acted immaturely, unhealthily. I don't. I believe she was hounded, quite literally, by MEDC and her choice not to be honest with OBS. Wasn't the subject she was posting about, nor involved the person she was posting to. Like you bringing up that post from two years ago. Called discrediting. Constant discrediting hurts, in my experience. I'm blessed because I didn't have MEDC following me around. That may change.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just as he reacted with vitrol when FFC essentially said what do you know, you're not married...his own stuff to bear. She was discrediting. Lashing out is like a signpost saying "You hit me"...it got through.

Now you're discrediting. Only I go with God speaking through a [censored]. I know I've resembled that creature very closely in my life. Doesn't discredit God's words through me or the Holy Spirit in me. I choose to speak.

Jesus was discredited constantly. Didn't stop others from hearing...and he acknowledged that there would be those who would not here...and he didn't stop speaking because of them.



You're correct. I don't see it as immature grandstanding or dishonesty. I don't see it as healthy adult choices, either. I see Suzet making her way through...in a foreign country to me...where everything is different...and I remember her connection with posters who were hurting, knowing she'd hurt her DH in the same way, and risking by sharing, anyway. I saw her do so honestly, in my opinion...as honest as we are with ourselves.

I trust God's still reaching for her. She's not discredited...her words remain here...they aren't wiped out by one action. To do so would be to rewrite history, wouldn't it? Sure can feel that way.

As for FLTH's "unnecessary meltdown"...I see her anger, pain and fear as reasonable. You do not. I understand being edited is a fright...when you had Justuss tell me to edit my post quoting you...from a public board...on another thread...I was frightened...felt shame and confusion. I don't think anything FLTH feels is unnecessary or unreasonable. I've felt the same way...nor do I think you're wrong for not feeling what she felt or calling it unnecessary. You're talking about you. For you to act that way isn't permissible to you in your code, is what I'm hearing.

That's cool. Doesn't make what others' feel unnecessary. That would be a bit dismissive, I think. Or calling someone feeling something deeply as a meltdown.

LA

That's what I said in the beginning. Everyone is on their own side of the fence and isn't interested in budging. Then I started getting analyzed because I wouldn't look at myself and see what's wrong with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It went downhill from there pretty much.

Sorry I said you were a he LA. I've never really seen your posts before. I love the way you write, BTW. I agree with your post wholeheartedly.

LA, you are not crazy. You also should realize, you are not going to get thru to Melody. she is not listening. she does not seem very open to hearing others views that might require her to consider looking inwards for her own flaws. we all have them. she seems to be very content exactly as is. her choice.

as for me, i'm fine, i'm not letting this get to me. i am watching the thread so i can stand up for myself, especially if Melody decides to call me more nasty things. but there is NO WAY this is getting under my skin anymore.

i hope you are not letting this get under your skin either.

if it is, just breath and relax!!!

Oddly enough, I'm extremely calm. Nope... it's not under my skin.

LA...I don't mind your approach...it works for you..mine works for me. As I have told you int he past...I believe I was once very much like you...I genuinely like the person I am today much better. But to each his own. I do not agree with much that you have written regarding Suzet...and it sounds like YOU are judging me by saying I hounded her...I stated truths quite clearly and have always expressed those truths to Suzet. I do not believe and never will...and perhaps my experiences have really shaped my views here...that any person that actively keeps the truth about infidelity from a BS can be or is a good person. That is my belief and it has not been shaken even a little by any of the discussions I have heard in my time here. In fact, it has been fortified...as I see the damage that is caused by heartless people that decide for themselves to visit this helll upon an unsuspecting BS. My posts to Suzet were pointed and would remain so if she were here today.
When I was apparently wrong about something...my interpretation of her remarks regarding race...I apologized. She chose not to accept that apology. I will not now and never will apologize to her or anyone else for my stand regarding BS. Someone here needs to be the voice to speak up for those that are being hurt by the likes of Suzet. If that paints me as someone that hounds her... I gladly accept the brush stroke.
And LA...you have a lot of value to the people you reach on this board. I have been thanked by quite a few people for the stands I have taken regarding the above issue, father's rights, abuse and other things. My passion comes through in my posts and when I meet an horrible injustice...such as the one that Suzet inflicts on a daily basis on another BS, I don't care to mince words.
Anyone that doesn't like that can feel free to put me on ignore....I will lose not one minutes sleep over that.

Well, I could only decipher about 20% of your post, so I will respond accordingly.


Is that the truth? Or just your opinion? You can't say that that is just "my opinion" if there is no truth.




LA, if you are "discredited" it is only because of your own words and nothing more. Those are your words, and that is exactly what you said. I could post more along those lines, but I think that one best typifies your mentality. Are you bothered that I would post that quote to you? Why would that be?

And you are right, you can't make Suzet or anyone else react in any way, but that is not what I said. What I did say was that it is shameful that you enable them in such immature, self centered behavior. Sure, Suzet was hounded. I agree with you there. But that does not entitle her to act immaturely and dishonestly. You don't do her any favors by encouraging her to be a victim of MEDC.


Of course you do. I am not suprised by that because it only confirms for me that you view the WAYWARD as the victim by default. [the betrayed is not the victim because he is getting a "gift," right?] So you will overlook her bad behavior and ignore the fact that SHE was edited for name calling, enabling her to believe she was the victim for being edited. That is like the robber who feels victimized by the police when he is put in jail. Getting edited was a consequence of name calling, to you it is a reasonable cause for "anger, pain and fear." <shrug>

what I want to know is why LA...you are choosing to discuss ME with Mel...if you have issue with me...bring it to me. It is not Mel's job to censor or change my posting...why are you directing anything about me to her??? Talk about diversions. Mel was dead on accurate to call her on her high school way of handling this..dishonest (so much so Justuss felt compelled to set the record straight) and hence full of the drama created by her lies. If she is not being honest today...right here to everyone on this board...does that in fact make her a liar??? Or a victim that I pushed to lie???