well this is my 1st time here. but i wanted to throw a post out there, and get some advice..

OK , i been with this girl( she is 28 , i was 27 when we started dating) for a bit over 1.5 years now. and things were really good in the begining , and after about a year we moved into an apartment together with her 3 kids.. which i had no problem doing .. finances were tough and we were makin it , but at a huge financial cost to myself, as i was working and supporting her and her kids for most of the time.

anyway we went through a hard time at the end of july/ start of august, money was super tight , she was trying to get a job , and had one lined up , but ended up not getting it due to a failed drug test for marijuana ( i knew she smoked but she told me she quit 8 weeks before the test) .

at that point i went back to my parents place for a few days to try to work stuff out .. and eventually decided to go back and try to work it out with us , she had been able to get a job that paid farly well and things were looking up.

later in august we had a few bumps. she started going out with her girlfriends on the weekends , though we didnt have the money for it, and then decided on a whim she wanted to take her and her kids camping , and she proceded to book a site for labor day weekend. and paying for it with our bill/food money , i was pretty mad , as doing this left us with $2.00 to live on for the next 8 days till we got paid again . at this point i decided to go back home again until she got her life figured out, as she would not change her plans at all , saying the kids were more important than anything.

we argued about it on and off. but she ended up going anyway , borrowing money from everyone to make it happen. After a few more weeks of her being out drinkin with her girls every night.

We hang out on a sat. night and go to a drive in movie.. she gets a phone call and walks away.. comin back 30 mins later.. says it was about one of the kids.. i let it slide. she decides that the next weekend her and her girls are going camping again.. im thinking something is up, as she is very secretive about where she is going and what campsite she is at . while she is camping she calls me every now and then. i checked our cell bill , and find a bunch of calls to a number i didnt know over the past month . all hours.. and long calls up to 2 hrs long.

i ask her about the number , and she tells me its just a friend of hers. i did a reverse lookup , and got the guys name/address,she talks about him every now and then to me.. guy is getting divorced.. his wife left him for another woman , and he has 2 kids. but my GF keeps telling me everything is ok with us, just need to work out some stuff before it gets worse, we hang out a lil bit , but the closeness and intimacy is just about gone, she treats me more like a friend than her fiancee

saw her last night for a couple hours , was good, but again no closeness. barely getting a kiss or hug.. nothing more..

she is going to a concert tomorrow night , and out with the girls friday night.. im thinking she is going with this guy to the concert , and out friday night.. and then she wants to see me on sat.

so yea.. anyone got some advice/ideas ?? sorry if its not making much sense.. its 4 am. but i'll try to update it tomorrow

Hi Razor,

Welcome to MB!

I don't have much time, but wanted to let you know that I've read your post and will reply in a bit...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hi Razor,

Ok... After re-reading your post a couple of things seem to stand out.

It sounds like your GF is just using you to help support her and her 3 kids.

Since you are NOT married, I would recommend walking as far away from this situation as you can and do it as quickly as you can!

I normally am a big supporter of saving a M, but you guys aren't married. She has absolutely ZERO committment to you and her actions are proving it.

If you do decide to try and work things out, don't be surprised if she tries this later on down the road. You are still young and you have your entire life ahead of you... don't waste it on this woman that isn't willing to make a committment to you.

Yes, you will have some pain over this 'lost' relationship, but I can assure you that it won't be nearly as painful if you do patch things up enough to put a ring on her finger, then have her do this again when you're actually married!

Semper Fi,

RIF

Razor,

When I read a post like this....my first thought is thank God you haven't married her yet! The saddest part of all of this is that there are three innocent children that she's dragging into her faithlessness and chaos. She isn't being responsible mother right now....she isn't even good girlfriend much less wife material. Who watches the kids while she goes bar hopping? I'm sure you love this woman and you've probably become connected to the kids....but she's not going to stay with you anyway....so preserve your dignity and your finances....end this now.

She is in bed with someone else she thinks will make more money. It is all about her.

She has no emotional committment toward you except for what you bring in the door and that you will babysit the kids while she looks for someone else.

Do you feel used?

Run.

Larry

Razor, she is just using you for money likely, however, she is free to date whomever she wants. You are not married to her. She is in no way committed to you; you are just her stud du jour. How sad that these kids have to be exposed to shack up situations. Revolving boyfriends only increases of risk of molestation, which is quite common.

Move out and move on, she will wreck your life.

Razor,

Not only is she using you and wayward, as I read this she is also an OW possibly contributing to breaking up OM's marriage.

No one needs to sign on for this. Run, don't walk out the door, before she boots you out. You mean nothing to her except $$.

Sorry this has happened, learn from it.

Who

hey guys , thanks for the responses.. Normally i would totally agree , that yea its time for me to run as far away as i can. however i dont feel its quite that easy, The bills for the apartment , her car (that i got for her , with the understanding that she would pay for it, and she hasnt been) is under my name, and insured by me, and the cell phone line i got her recently. I'd like to just take her car back , but in reality i'll need to take it , and quickly sell it , because i cant afford it.

basically i dont want to totally ruin her(and by extention the kids) by takin her car , takin her cell phone , and cancelling all the utilities to the apartment (BTW im back at my parents now)unless i have total proof that she is cheating on me.

i think its the only way i'll be able to do it, is that when i do catch her , that i'll feel totally justified in taking everything that is mine. We had the understanding that we were going to get married , and i did ask her in november of last year. and of course she said yes. We also understood , if we ever wanted out of the relationship , just tell me , but cheat on me, it wont turn out well.

this upcoming weekend provides the best chances for me.. supposedly she is going out with "the girls" on friday night to a local bar.. I have told her i'll be a couple hours away at a car club gathering, i'll really be very close by. and will prob stake out the bar.. if i catch her all over this guy.. i'll be setting the wheels in motion, and will most likely end up takin her car right then and there.

its been a real roller coaster with her over the past month or so. times of thinking that it will all get better, then times when i want to just end the whole thing.I Dont really know where to go from here. but i feel if i catch her with my own eyes, it will be a lot easier , and erase any doubts in my mind , if i ended it without knowing.

Tony, you don't need to catch her at anything to seperate yourself. You need to get yourself extricated from this tangled web and stop being a fool. Good grief, son, you are just being used. Get out of there and try and learn from your mistakes.

Go take her car now, get your name off the apt, cancel the utilities, do what you need to do to get yourself out of this mess you have placed yourself in.

I agree 100% with mel...and Tony... I have walked in your shoes. Run brother...run.

Raz,


If that's what you need, it's what you need. But keep in mind, she clearly has a wayward mindset and a sense of entitlement AND she seems to treat you as though you and your feelings don't matter. Why, even if she isn't cheating YET, would you want to continue in a relationship like that?



Sounds more like YOU had and understanding and she merely pretended to "understand" to get as much out of you as possible.

As you have plans to do a little spying this weekend, it can ride that long. Just don't find yourself backing up and giving her just one more chance.

Honestly, a 28 yo with 3 children and wayward ways just doesn't seem to be much of a catch. If I were your mother, I'd be really worried about you!

Who

Hi Tony,

The score is 6 to 0.

If you do wait to catch her, you're going to have a mess on your hands... what are you going to do when she gives you the sob story about her poor kids, how you're 'abandoning' her, blah blah blah...

Go get your things out of the apartment. Cancel your lease. Turn off the utilities. Cancel your cell phone... then get YOUR car and run away as fast as you can.

You are being used and if you wait around, she's just going to manipulate you more and cost you MORE money in the long run.

You are a grown man and can make up your own mind, but from where we're all sitting and based on what you've told us, there isn't a one of us that would still be with this woman!

Semper Fi,

RIF

What she said!

BTW, don't mean to jack a thread, but a quick question. I have been lurking here for a good while, and sometimes I get members' situations confused. Melody, why isn't there an "F" in front of your husband in your signature? Isn't he a former wayward, or are you married to a different man that that referred to?

You're not getting it.

Your fiancee has failed the trust test already. Whether or not she has actually cheated on you, her actions are clearly suggesting to you that you will not be able to trust her.

This is NOT the person you want to commit the rest of your life to.

IMO, get out as quickly as possible, and don't look back. Don't worry too much about how many $$ you would lose in the process. Much better than staying in a relationship that's likely to bring even more hardship if it continues.

GET OUT!

Who cares that you will be hurting her financially? NOT YOUR PROBLEM. I'm sure she would take you to the cleaners if you were married and she wanted to divorce you for another man. I would set boundaries like NC w/ OM for life and couples counseling, if not, don't let the door hit her in the @ss on the way out. Don't walk, RUN from this woman. She is using you. You can do a he11 of a lot better.

What I want to know is how did your self-esteem end up as low as it is? What happened to you?

How can you be attracted to a woman who has three children and is out running around in bars, etc, shacking up with bf's and being such a rotten mom.

Doesn't that make you sick? Please prove to yourself that you are not just as bad as her by setting your standards higher and not contributing to what she is putting these poor little kids in the middle of.

What a nasty little person and rotten little mother she is. Too bad the dad or grandma can't get these kids.

And next time you date a woman with children, do not move in with them until you are married to their mother and will be a part of their life forever.

let me just try to clarify things a lil bit, i know i have painted a pretty negative picture of my girl ,and the responses do show that. Let me be the 1st to say , this behavoir from her is somthing very new , the drinking and being out at the bars , is a 2 week old thing, Prior to August of this year everything was good , and i really had no reason to suspect anything from her.

we never argued about anything , and got along so well , so for most of our relationship things have been very good, there are always bumps in the road , and we have had a few, im hoping that this is just a pothole, and things will get back to normal.

up untill the past couple weeks , has has been a very good mother. always there for the kids , and doing what it took to make sure they had whatever they needed. I helped her when she needed it. due to some medical issues her 4 year old had

as far as the 2 of us.. things were great, we did everything together , intimacy was great.. she was open to anything we wanted to try , very supportive of my career choices and really put 100% effort into the relationship.

i know this can sound like im making excuses , but i just find it really hard to walk on a almost 2 year relationship , over about 2 weeks of issues. We still talk all the time , and realize that we need to get US back on track , just trying to find the right way to do it. I do understand now that we cant spend 24/7 together, its not healthy for a relationship, and she did ask me for a little bit of space for the time being

as for the cheating thing. up until now , she has never given me any reason to not trust her.. she never hid anything or tried to mis-lead me, at this point i dont have much , i have some phone calls , and her denial of anything happening. I really do not want to be that guy who doesnt trust his woman to be out with a guy and that she wont stop somthing if it gets out of hand, at the same time i need to follow my instinct and see what comes out of me trying to see whats up on friday night. If i am able to catch her , then i know it was never meant to be , and i was nothing more than a dollar sign to her , if not , maybe this relationship still has some life in it .

*edit* it should be noted that financially i have cut her off.. its now totally up to her to make it or not.. the car doesnt get paid. it gets taken , cell not paid.. its turned off.. in the past 2 weeks she has also been able to pay down the utils in the apartment to 0 , and pay for her car/ cell phone/ car insurance

if she wants to spend time for me.. its just that , spending time together with me , not my wallet.. I dont know what the future will hold from this.. or if anything is goin on at all, i just cant make a snap decision on this without knowing all the information....

Why isn't she with the children's father, Razor? What happened there, and how did your R with her start?

You are making excuses for her. If she started her first affair after 1.5 years of dating, imagine how many she will have racked up after 10 years of marriage (not that I think it would ever last that long). By then you will be older, and you will have to give her half of your property and pay spousal support to someone who never respected you to begin with.

Bingo. It takes just about that time for the "gloss" of a new relationship to wear off and for us to see our chosen spouses for what they really are. That's probably why most A's don't last that long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

It sounds like you've reached the point where you feel a permanent bond with your spouse, but your head is telling you that it's probably not a good idea to continue it, hence your uncertainty.

Larry can provide the chemo-biological explanation, if he's reading this thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

No, Tony, this is NOT a recent development!

Who's the father of her kids? Why are you paying for their upbringing and not their father?

There's just 2 much missing from your story for me 2 say anything other than there's a lot of prior his2ry full of red flags.

You should be running, screaming from the room, not justifying her behavior!

Even if she isn't boning this guy she's been talking 2 for hours at a time on the phone, she's not committed 2 you, and she's not being a mother - or she wouldn't be having "girls' nights" out at the bar.

Do you have 2 cars? And are you driving the beater, the one paid for? If you want 2 make the transition back in2 the single lifestyle easier on her, leave her the paid-for car and take the other one. Then, either keep it for yourself or sell it and buy another thrasher.

You say she's paying the bills now? Good. Stay at your folks (or start looking for a place of your own), and if you absolutely must, date your GF once in a while (assuming she isn't busy bar-hopping with her friends). I'll bet she'll forget about you in pretty short order.

-ol' 2long

Oh please, this is the oldest excuse in the books - asking for space. Sheesh, you falling for that garbage??????? Excuse me, I gotta go hurl.


Do what? Of COURSE you want to be the MAN who doesn't trust his woman to be out with ANOTHER GUY!!!!!!! That one calls for an [censored] spanking and a fight if you are so inclined, or if not, hit the door running.

She is making whoopie on your time and you are finding excuses.

Two years is about the time the chemicals wear off and mommy starts looking for a new daddy for the kids - and maybe a bigger paycheck.

Get wise, get smart, lose the doormat you been laying on and bail. I am not going to go into bio-chemical details, no point. If you want to know, look up my old posts.

Yea, I'm being rough. See, I wimped a bit when my wife revealed that she had been cheating her [censored] off and with who and it wasn't until I got my balls back out of her purse that things turned around. Trust me, I have a padlock on those vital appendages now.

And you should too.

Larry

Or is it "Who are the [color:"red"] fathers [/color] of her kids?"

Razor...

As you can tell, these people get pretty fired up.

Dude... listen... she's got issues. I don't know what they are, I can take a guess and stab at sexual abuse or parental neglect...but she's made some poor choices early on in life. If I'm wrong... than I apologize...

She probably has many issues she has to deal with... and you two are on two different pages in life.

You can't help her, if she doesn't want to be helped.

If you do decide to stick this out, come to the realization that there's a boatload of betrayal and hurt coming down the pipe for you. It may or may not be worth it in the end. But remember, the longer you draw it out, the harder it's going to be when there are little ones involved.

I of course, could be talking out my [censored], but sometimes you just shouldn't jump to judge...and I am not the judging type. Good people make bad decisions. That's really a given, considering that most of us on this board have forgiven a spouse for cheating on us, or being the spouse that did the cheating... stone throwing shouldn't be allowed.

The other downside is you chose a Marriage Building site that has a history of not supporting relationship building unless there's a legal committment...and/or children of the marriage.

I hope everything turns out for both of you, either together, or apart.

Razor,
Another important distinction to make is that you reclaiming the car, phone, etc... is not YOU financially ruining her. Her own poor choices and disrespect of you are the cause of any potential financial ruin. By allowing this to continue, you are enabling her poor behavior so she does not need to change. With no impetus to change, there obviously will be no change.

Regardless of whether or not you have real proof, she is exhibiting all of the signs of infidelity. If you really need to catch her in the act, I don't imagine it will be that long before you do.

The responses here have been "tough love" so to speak, but oftentimes, the people outside of a relationship have the clearest view if its reality.

Based on what you have said, she is a mid 20s, mother of 3 who couldn't get a job due to drug use. Up until recently, you were the sole supporter of her and her kids, and she shows you very little gratitude and respect. If I were you, I would count myself lucky that I learned this before marriage, and would walk away without any qualms.

Good luck!

RAz, you made a bad decision getting involved with this woman. It would be an even worse decision to stay with her. She is just using you and is HARDLY marriage material. She just wants some stud to pay her bills while she cats around.

betrayedinjersey wrote:
Thats hardly a "downside." No one in their right mind should be supportive of a dating relationship gone bad. That is just simple common sense, and common sense is not exclusive to Marriage Builders, hopefully.

Which Mel reminded me; dating before marriage is a discovery process. You have now discovered. So what are you going to do with your discovery?

Larry

Razor-

AND.... let me throw this out there.... IF she decides to fault on the car loan, and the phone payment, which are in YOUR name (is that because she has bad credit????) YOU are going to be the one that suffers the consequences...

If you have a repo on your record, if you try to get a car, you are going to pay SKY HIGH interest. If she racks up a cell phone bill from [email]h@ll[/email], YOU are going to have to pay it off if you want to get service....

So you would be best off canceling the phone, and taking the car (selling it/taking it over).

You do not owe her anything at this point, she is the one digging her own mess, let HER find the way out of it. AND I can guarantee, it will be some other man who will help her clean up the mess.

I agree that you should RUN. If these are her true colors, you do NOT want to deal with it the rest of your life.

Unfortunately there are some people out there that have no qualms about using people as stepping stones. I think that she is one of them.

So, my advice: take the car, cancel the cell phone (whatever you have to pay to cancel the plan early WILL be worth it), transfer all of the bills OUT of your name... Take care of YOU.

If she wanted to work things out with you so much, she would NOT be going out, she would NOT be talking to another man, and she would NOT want you to move out.

Think about it.

Razor,
One more thing, and I hesitate to say it, but I believe it to be the truth, and since you came to a Christian website for advice, here goes:

The relationship you have with GF is wrong anyhow. God will not bless a relationship where you are just shacking with a woman. The principles which save a marriage, cannot save your relationship, because it is in no way, shape or form a marriage. It is a relationship not even sanctioned by God. You will be doing Him , the other woman, AND yourself a favor to leave, get away, and quit contributing to sin in your lives. If she continues to sin with another man, that is her sin, not yours. God has done you a huge service to let you see in advance, the even bigger mess you would be getting into. He has better plans for you, I promise.

setfree, to answer your question, my H is a former wayward and we are happily recovered.

Setfree - Let's keep the religious dogma out of this OK? This isn't a "Christian" site.

Dr Harley is a Christain as am I but this isn't a Christian Site - it's a Marriage Building site - and I agree this isn't a marriage. Harley's principles work just as well for all marraiges.

Alright...Jews...Muslims and atheists...time to hit the road!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That's great, Melody! I am happy to hear it.

Hey, I just got OFF the road! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Putting aside all the "God says" stuff, the statistics do show that there are good sociological reasons to NOT live together prior to forming a permanent relationship (getting M'd).

See http://www.leaderu.com/critical/cohabitation-socio.html

well looks like everyone here is right.. i really feel like i have been played for the fool here.. and taken for a ride.

I stopped by her place last night to get my insurance info for my car (BTW its a 2004 Pontiac GTO , for the poster who asked if was driving the junker) And it just suddenly became so clear to me.. its the ultimate tease and she is quite enjoyin it. its like you can see what you want right in front of you.. but you cant have it..when you try to just take it, it hurts even more. its a horrible thing..i ended up just having to leave.

we talked for a bit on the phone, and i really explaind to her what was up , and how im feeling , that basically she expects my help but isnt giving me anything in return , and that has to stop, its not somthing i can do anymore. she was getting quite upset the whole time.. telline me she is faithful to me , and isnt doing anythng , just trying to get her life back on track. but she just feels "numb" to everything right now. after about an hour of talking she had to go and get her son , and didnt want him to see her crying like she was. now i knew she had tickets to a concert last night as well , and she called and promised me when she got out she would call me and we'd work this out

well come 2 am.. im still up .. talkin to a few friends online.. and nothing from her so i text her a few times just saying ya know.. this is exactly what i expected from you. and you are once again showing a complete lack of respect for me and this "relationship" we have

at 3:30 am.. my phone rings.. i answer it.. she is saying she is just driving home.. im like wait a minute.. the bars close the latest at 2 am.. so i know you were somwhere other than at the bar.. and im pretty sure it was with this guy u keep talking to.. thats pretty messed up. she is getting very defensive with me, saying thats not the case and she just didnt get a chance to call..

at this point i have just about had it with her.. everything will be coming back to me including the car and phone.. she had a shot to come clean , and blew it once again.. hope the new guy has money. cause she is gonna be in a world of hurt in about a week with the rent due, and no job

i know hard times are ahead for me.. but i gotta stay the course and work through it..

Tony:

Aha! I should have figured out what the "04GTO" was about in your login name!

At the risk of sounding like I'm contradicting myself, I think you need 2 be a little more certain about your "intelligence" than it sounds like you've been. You are probably right - she was with "him", but your description of her reaction on the phone 2 you doesn't quite sound like someone caught in a lie, unless she's really good at it.

-ol' 2long

That's what friends and family are for...lean on them for awhile.

Tony, just a word of advice from someone who made many stupid heartbreaking mistakes, if she isn't good wife and mother material, if she doesn't make you want to be a better man and bring you great joy...don't waste you time.

And next time, don't move in with a woman with children. It is just too hard on and not fair to those kids. But I think you probably know that now.

Lesson learned.

I am sorry you had to learn it in such a paimful way, though.

So sorry you're hurting. You sound like a decent guy with a lot to offer...it's her loss...she should have treated you AND herself better.

sorry i should have eleaborated a bit more about it.. basically she was like im ok to drive now , i sobered up for a while.. now due to having her phone on my plan , i did see that the last call she made was at 1:30 am, so im assuming she left the concert and called someone around that time, so between 1:30 and 3:30 on a thursday night.. where did she go to sober up ?

basically when i talked to her after i left her place i was very blunt with her.. basically stating if she wants me to continue helping her with things.. she needs to give things back to me.. love and affection , if she cannot do that, then i can no longer help her. it is truly her choice now.

she just keeps telling me that nothing is going on , and the drinking for her right now is just a total escape from how bad her life is right now, it takes her mind off of all of it, i dont doubt its definitly a EA right now with this guy.. maybe not PA yet.. but it will get there over time. we talked a little bit today.. nothing to serious. but she is again goin out with her girls tonight.

on my hand i have a female friend of mine coming to hang out a bit. and i got a freshly fixed GTO to be crusin around in , if i see her.. i'll be watching to see who she is with , and what is going on.

Tony,

You haven't answered anyone's questions about where the chidlrens' father is. How come?

Because there are three kids involved, that you have been living with, and this girl sounds like a mess, the posters here might be willing to help you repair this relationship.

I would be if you were willing and able to bring some stability into these kid's life...because I love kids, and she sounds like she is a very poor mom, at least right now. You say she said she is in pain and partying is the only thing that numbs it, or something like that. My first reaction is tough chit! You have three little ones relying on you, and guess what? Your pain doesn't matter anymore. But it is what it is, and she appararently was raised different than me. Maybe she is in pain though, but why?

What I want to know, is are you any more worthy than her to be in these kids' life? How so?

Why do you want to be with this woman, and how would it benefit her kids if you are?

There is such a thing as responsibility. You are an adult and you have a responsibility to not cause more harm. You have a responsibility to kids just like all of us do.

Are either one of you responsible adults? Usually around here we are dealing with the stable one, but in this case, I really can't tell if it is you or not. You are talking like a very young guy, not someone who is almost 30.

Those are all justified questions, i just really havnt had the time to really sit down and try to answer them.. i'll try to shed some light on it now

the children, they are 11, 7 , and 4 . the 2 oldest are boys , the youngest is a girl . there are 3 different fathers involeved here.. ( i know red flag) ,but i have chosen to just judge her on what happeend in the past. my girl has freely admitted to me she made mistakes and didnt learn from them.

the 11 year old.. his dad has primary custody of him , but he is still with his mother quite a bit too. his dad is the most active out of the 3 , and isnt really a bad guy at all, sends him to private school , and gets him what he needs, they both admit , they were young and dumb ,and they have tried to work together for the kids sake

the 7 year old. his dad doenst have custody. but gets visitation when he wants it.. but the kid is generally with mom, his dad isnt really that great , and doenst put that much effort into the kid, and generally doesnt keep up with his child support payments

the 4 year old.. she is the toughest one of all , has some mental issues ( diagnosed with PTSD, and ADD, and extreme separation anxiety) her father is not in the picture ( he developed mental issues after her birth) , and has since been in a psych hospital most of the time. the little girl is currently not living with her mother on Dr's orders untill they can try to work on the lil girls mental issues, she is staying with a family friend,but still sees her mother at least once a day , they tried brining her home recently , and it didnt work , so she is back with the family friend

she is a good mother.. she does things with the kids.. even though it might leave her without things she wants , she does her best to keep the kids happy.

im not going to say im father of the year or anything.. im still very much learing how to deal with the kids.. they all like me a lot , and from what she says its a very good thing. i try the best i can to do things with them/ for them . and try to cultivate a good relationship with them.

I know that if the both of us are commited to working together , and keeping us together.. that the kids would be able to have their needs met , and exceeded , and have a loving family structure right now

as for why she is drinking like this.. i dont know.. i think its partially she doenst like what her life has become (this she has told me) , she has again lost her daughter living in her house ( through no fault of her own , it just wasnt working) lost me living there, lost a job that she needed .. thats a lot to deal with in a short time span. without somone to be there with her through this , i can see how drinking can be an attractive option, though it is not the right one for her or her kids.

when she wants to go out and do this.. usually the boys are at their dad's , or with a babysitter friend of hers. again not the best for the kids.. but its her choice right now , and i believe at the bar is where this possible affair of hers started.

i hope this answers some of the questions.. i'll do my best to update when i can .

The - escape...drinking because she doesn't like how her life is going - is a very poor reason and one I would also say points to an affair even more.... Maybe she has guilt for lying to you which is helping her to feel badly and want to escape...run away from her problems with alcohol.

She is not being a good mom by going out drinking so frequently and she is certainly not marriage material for you.

If I was your mom I'd be none to happy with your choice of girlfriend. You can do better. Actually, with all her excuses you seem to be buying....I'd say you need to take a good look at your priorities in life so that when you do meet a nice/good woman you will be Mr. Right...a man of honor and character who knows right from wrong. You current girlfriend is ALL WRONG.

I feel sorry for her kids....having her for their mom. Sad.

Ouch, the white knight syndrome. Yeachhhhhhh.

Look, you cannot save someone from themselves. Yea, I know, guys really wanna try. It gives us a woody saving damsels in distress. Well, lemme tell you, the broad you are dealing with is distressed because of her choices and she will continue to not learn from her mistakes.

You can't save her. Don't even try.

Run.

Larry

I'm giving you a whack upside the head for getting involved with this woman in the first place. I, like you, was a "fixer," always attracted to women who were flawed because I thought I could save them. Trust me, it's a lot easier to find your own woman without all the baggage. Here's a newsflash. You have self esteem issues and think that you can't get any better. Wrong. You are a good guy and will do just fine. Be a little smarter about who you involve yourself with next time.

If you were old enough, you would get this allusion to a Nancy Sinatra song.....

These boots were made for walking
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days these boots are gonna
Walk all over you

Right now, it seems like that's what your wgf is doing.....

Now, you should pay attention to the last line of the song. Get out your own boots, put them on, and say to them....."OK, boots, start walking!!!"

Then, tell her she has 1 month in which to get the utilities and apartment into her own name. Then, tell her she has one month to get the car in her own name.

Then, get follow the the advice from "Forrest Gump", [color:"red"]Run, Forrest, Run!!!![/color]

I think this says it all. Are you looking to become father # 4 if she gets pregnant? How would you know that YOU would be the father or perhaps its the OM.

You better start listening to everyone who is providing you with advice here. Emotionally it sounds like its hard for you to give up. Stop thinking with your little head and start thinking with your real head. You will regret not getting out of this mess if you do not do it NOW.

I feel sorry for her because she IS messed up but its YOU asking for help in this forum, NOT HER.

AB

well i did finally take some advice from the boards here.. basically told her last night (after she blew me off to go drinking yet again) that i just cant do this anymore.. its taking a huge emotional and mental toll on me , esp. when im wondering when im gonna get that phone call that her drunk driving has killed herself or someone else.

after talking for a while, i did realize that its not that she is trying to push me away and out of her life , its that she is so messed up right now , says her life is falling apart around her, and the only time she feels somewhat good , is when she is drunk. and with no one around her telling her what she is doing is wrong, besides me, she sees no harm from her actions . beside the fact she is blowing what little money she had saved at the bar every night.

her life is spiraling out of control right now , and i cant stop it , ifeel bad for her, and the kids, but there is nothing i can do. looks like she is goin through a nervous breakdown and just not caring what the results are at all.

its just sad as ****** when you see someone that you care about so much , so out of control , and knowing its only a matter of time, before she gets herself a DUI , or gets herself or someone else hurt or killed.

Hey Razor,

Yes, this is a very sad situation. But there is something you can do... You can get your car back, you can turn off the utilities to the apartment, you can cancel your lease, and you can run away as fast as you can!

You are financially tied to this woman and she is going to bankrupt you if you let this continue. You will be paying for a car that you no longer have because she's either wrecked it or stopped making the payments on it and it's been repossessed... you'll have $300-$500/month cell phone bills every month (I'd LOVE for someone to pay for my cell phone bill with no strings attached!)... Your credit will be trashed because you failed to pay your utility bills... the list goes on and on.

I know that at one point you cared for this woman and probably still do... but if you don't wake up and smell the coffee, you're going to be in a world of financial hurt... And I haven't even addressed the social/moral issues with her three kids... that in and of itself is saddest part of this story. You don't need to be "Daddy #4" to these kids.

Get out while you still can and let this woman crash... until she crashes on her own, she's going to continue to find men that will 'support' her and will not learn from her bad choices.

Semper Fi,

RIF

call the police nd discuss her drunk driving before she kills someone.

The kindest thing you could do for her is what MEDC advised. Call the cops and tell them she goes drunk driving. That way they can pick her up and toss her in jail for drunk driving. Jail is great medicine for a drunk. It also protects society. Maybe that will motivate her to sober up and start being a real mother to those children.

If you do in fact love her, Tony, you will do what these people are advising. It's called tough love, and it often works.

You have put your self on the end of of a crazy making puppeteer. And then you wonder why you are doing the crazy dance.

People can and often do change, but sometimes we have to give them a reason to. When we stop enabling them, and dancing on the ends of the strings they are thrashing around, it gets their attention.

She is capable of being a stable, loving mother and wife, but probably only if she hooks up with people who expect nothing less of her.

I was once in a foster home because of drug use as a young teen. There was a guy who was related to and lived at the farm next to my foster family who didn't do drugs, who was an achiever at school and popular with all the kids. He used to stop by and talk to me when I was doing my chores in the barn. I really liked him but he had said right up front and I believed him, that he would never date anyone who did drugs or hung out with druggies. I ended up cleaning up my act, because I wanted to be a part of his life and his crowd. I had had enough of the partying life (already and I wasn't even 17), also because I missed my family so much. My family did the tough love thing on me, plus I had a guy who wouldn't lower his standards to go out with me. I ended up dating him for 4 years and never went back to drug use, also went back to high school and got very good grades, and then college.

Tough love works, Tony. And you have a responsibility, as the others have said.

If she is that bad, you should look on line in your areas for help. Try social services, crisis intervention or something similar. You might be on the wrong track but I bet if you explain your situation, they would make recommendations for who to call. Advice on this board is great but it does not solve the issues you are going through. It's easy for us to sit here and say "cancel the credit card, take back the car" etc. You and your W (especially her) needs professional advice. You need to act before she hurts herself and possibly those who love her too.

Go NOW and do a search for crisis intervention.

Not tomorrow. Not after breakfast. NOW!!!!!!

AB

Alphabeta,


FYI. This woman IS NOT his wife, she is his girlfriend. Her 3 children have three different fathers, and Razor is father to none of them. I don't know if she was ever married to any of them.

Get the picture more clearly now?

Who

Razor,

I read your thread and find it very sad on many levels.

The calls for tough love are dead on.

You certainly have White Night syndrome, just as I did many years ago. Your ex sounds like an ex of mine. Her patter of boyfriends says a great deal. You will never make this woman happy.

My ex went through stages and phazes just like yours. Everything seemed fine, but in reality wasn't. My ex had 2 marriages when I met her, and she was 19. I was going to be number 3. I am a good guy with a good career. Stable. Boring to her.

She left me and shacked up with husband number 3 and an abuser. She left him and sought me out again. I fell for it and tried again. Luckily I saw the light and bailed. She is now on husband number 4. She's unhappy with him and has called me on occasion, fishing for a EN.

This is what you need to do. Sell your clunker and keep the new one.

Contact the dads and let them know you're dumping her and that they need to take the kids. Call her mom or dad for the youngest and tell them what's going to happen.

Once they're squared away and taken care of, throw her out. The apartment is in your name.

You're not going to save or change this woman. She's going to beg and plead when you finally man up and make her face reality. You're the best thing she's got going for her. You're being used.

I have been in your shoes. My life would have been a disaster if I continued to meet women like this. You have no kids.

Don't ruin your own credit. Take care of yourself. You're not responsible for these kids.

She's running around drinking and wasting money on alohol and pot and you're struggling to support her and her family. Seriously, why do you settle for being treated like crap?

So it's been two years, so what? Be greatful you're still young and dump her like a hot potato.

This sounds harsh and in some ways it's tragic. You're being held hostage by guilt but you have nothing to be guilty about. She only SEEMED normal for 2 years. Her relationship history shows she's anything but.

It's never going to get better, not on her own. She likely has a personality disorder. She sounds so much like my ex it's scary. Don't go down this road or one day you will really regret it. Setup the kids to be taken care of and then dump her and tell her to never contact you again.

Yes, it will hurt. Breaking up always does. But you will find someone new and better if you change your pattern of searching for damsels in distress.

Trust me, the very things that make bad girls exciting are the same things which make them bad. Believe me, good girls are exciting as well and so much better in the long term.

Dump her and come back here to learn about relationships and how to make them strong.

Years from now you will look back on this and want to smack yourself for allowing someone to treat you this way.

We speak tough here, but have often been in your shoes. It's almost like being able to talk to ourselves several years ago, wanting to impart our wisdom gained in hind sight. That's where a lot of advice comes from.

Good luck, but bail!

Good post Brokendreams, very well said, and with such kindness, too.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And do yourself a huge favor; never have SF with her, ever again. If she gets the idea you are about to break up, she will "accidentally" get pregnant to trap you. I'd be willing to bet she has done it before.

A few more thoughts to add:

You need to understand that she will freak if she sees that you're really serious about dumping her.

How do I know? I've been in your shoes.

Look, I had ANOTHER ex that I was seeking to be White Night for. I had this mentality of "can't you see how well I treat you? Can't you see how you don't have to suffer or struggle but simply be with me and all will be fine?"

I did that with more than one woman. If she had a psycho ex in jail, or huge debt, I was there. I had one that was heavily into drugs (I didn't know it) and that I wanted to live with.

It lasted one month. I got wise and saw I was being used. I gave her an ultimatum, thinking it would make her say, "I'm not going to be talked to that way! I'm leaving."

Guess what? She didn't say that and changed her attitude and was suddenly nice.

Guess who is the strong one in your situation? Guess who stands more to lose when you man up?

This isn't to manipulate her into waking up. It's to illustrate how you have much more strength in this than you realize.

You will not save her and can't and she will use you as long as you let her. Don't let it happen.

And for the record, I still dumped her after the change in attitude. We're very good friends now, but she acknowledges she was a wreck then.

Dump her! Go to IC after you do so.

hey everyone thanks for all the info and advice.. the past 24 hrs or so has been prob. the worst that i have gone through. we tried to make it all work out and fix the problems we had.. or so i thought.

about 3:30 am on monday morning.. she called me to let me know she was ok and on her way home. at the same time talking about an orange mustang that i guess was a friend of hers messin with her on the road , told me she loved me and we'd talk later on in the day.

i called her from my work desk (different number than she is used to cause i was at a different site) and she just sounded off.. almost like you can tell when u catch them in the act. anyway at that point i decided to take my lunch and head to my normal site, in the same town that she lives in now.

as i drove by the house ... there are 2 cars in the driveway , her car , and in front of that , an orange mustang.. at this point i know what was going on. i kinda lost it for a while and proceded to drive by again her open kitchen windows and let her know i was there ( my GTO is quite loud.. and its noticble when im revvin the ****** outta it 10 feet away) she calls me saying whats the matter.. and we just yelled back and forth , not really getting anywhere..she swears its just a friend, and nothing is going on.. but i know its more than that.

eventually i left.. but returned again shortly to confront her.. only she wasnt there.. the same mustang was.. but she (and her "friend) wouldnt come back to the house untill l left..

we fought over the phone for the rest of the day..and i left work early.. i just too wound up to be there..

once i calmed down , we text messaged back and forth a lil bit.. she still is adamant about not having a man. and he is just a friend of hers.. just saying her life is so messed up right now , she cant have this intense relationship we had going on , and try to be a mother to her kids and all that..saying she is very sorry to hurt me , and didnt mean to , but didnt know how to do it any other way.. just telling me she couldnt see me suffer while her life is so messed up , that i deserve better .. but she wants to sit down and talk , face to face tomorow . and just work things out and maybe give some closure to this...

i dont know.. i know its a long hard road ahead of me. and its gonna take time to feel like myself again.. i have had almost 2 years of my life of never being alone..now i am.. i need to get my friends back. and my life back..

i dont know what the future will bring.. wills he fix herself and come back after some time away.. or is it truly over and i need to find another... i want the love and companionship of a girl right now.. but i dont even know if thats somthing i can handle right now...

thanks again everyone.. though i had been preparing myself for this.. i never thought it would happen like this..and it still hit me like a ton of bricks.

Hey Razor,

Typical WS psyco-babble... she's definitely giving you the brush off!

What have you done to protect your financial assets and get yourself OUT of this situation???

I wouldn't go talk with her for "closure"... get your stuff back and cancel everything that you can before you're paying for some other GUY to live in the apartment that you're paying for and driving the car that you're paying for and using the electricity that you're paying for...

She's found herself someone that makes her "feel" good and as long as you continue to care for her financially, she's going to let you!

I'm sorry that it turned out this way, but she's using you big time! Run away and don't look back...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Agreed! Razor, you're being USED by this woman. Get out as fast and as cleanly as you can. She herself has said you deserve better... that's about the only thing she's said that you can really believe.

I would suggest not even communicating directly with her again unless absolutely necessary. Permanent Plan B. Any lawyers in your family or circle of friends?

GTO-

I agree with everyone else. I really think you should seriously consider whether or not this relationship truly has a chance to work out the way you want it.

She clearly isn't "marriage material". Maybe when she grows up, but there's no gaurantee even then.

I'd also suggest that you don't get into the melodramatics...sitting in the drive revv'ing your engine doesn't solve problems. Bagging up her stuff while she's at work and having it delivered to her friend's or her mom's house would probably be more effective.

Don't play her game. She obviously thrives on the thrills and attention. Quietly pack her out and boot her out.

Who owns the house? Or is on the lease?

Get yourself out of this mess, Razor! You lucked out that you didn't marry this woman or it would have been the biggest mistake of your life. Get out while the getting is good. She is not marriage material, she is a USER OF MEN. She does not love you, she wants someone to pay her bills while she cats around.

Don't you want to have a wife who is respectable, loving and decent? Who will treat you well and take care of your children? You will never get that with this woman.

Crap, I had a long post, but it timed out. (#*$&@#.

Brokendreams hit it on the head. I've been where you are. I've lived with a woman with two kids by two different guys. High school dropout, former coke addict, alcoholic, pot smoker, party girl. She also couldn't keep her legs together outside the house.

Fortunately it only took me 6 months to realize I was being used, and I moved out. She almost pulled me back in - we were broke up for 3 months and then started going out again - but 2 months later it was done for good. That was 12 years ago; now I've been married for 10 years to a woman who is my EQUAL and my PARTNER in life.

This woman is screwing another man IN YOUR BED. MAN UP!

Follow the advice here! Get the kids back to their dads or grandparents....box up her stuff and send it somewhere...disconnect yourself financially...change the locks and phone numbers...and cease all contact. Be ready to slap her with a restraining order in case she doesn't go quietly.

It seems to me that the hardest part of getting over someone is making the decision to. Once the decision is made, the rest comes relatively easy.

Tony, the worst mistake you can make is to get into another relationship right away, just to keep yourself from being alone, like a bandaide. And it's paramount to using someone.

And it could end up to be a rebound which will only bring a heck of a lot more pain to either you, or the one you rebound with.

Take some time to heal, to become comfortable with yourself, and by yourself. Hang out with friends and family, and put the women on hold for awhile. You'll be much more likely to make a good choice in a woman, if you can do this. If not, you'll have even chance than the luck of the draw in finding someone who is the right girl for you.