I wrote this on a thread today because this is how i have been feeling lately.


When your FWS is remorseful and doing everything possible to help you and you still can not "get over it" what do you do?

If you find the answer, let me know.

I thought about a revenge A, then realized that not only is that beneath me, but so are all of the potential partners that would sleep with me. I wouldn't lower myself to the level of some dishrag skank, nor would I be that guy who will lie his way into a woman's pants.


I've felt the way you do many, many times. It's like a little voice in the back of my head, applying constant, steady pressure.

It says, "You'll never get over it. You'll never trust her again. You're wasting your time. You can be happier elsewhere."

That's on a good day.

Give it time. talk to someone. BUT, remember...not everyone can get over an affair. Harley mentions this in a few places. I think it all depends on how you are wired. If you are a big detail person and have a mind that just runs (I do), it will be harder for you to get over. If you are a big picture person...just looking at this issue in the scope of a lifetime, it might be easier.

For some, sadly, the only answers are to either live with unhappiness or move on.

I am sorry you are in such pain.

SC, we don't just "get over it," we have to go through recovery. And recovery takes time. When you have a knife wound, it does not heal in one day, it takes a long time.

When was D-Day?

And who is a hypocrite as per the thread title? I don't see any hypocrisy here.

I agree with MEDC, Still. Give it more time. Consider finding someone to talk to about your issues, even those not marriage related.

I AM more of a big picture kinda gal, and could envision a happy future, as long as both of us chugged away and built a safer marriage; probably why I endured as long as I did--eye on the PRIZE, I suppose. That was MY vision, though, and I'm only half of the picture. PWC lives in the details, and considering what MEDC states, I would have to think PWC couldn't get over his affairs (the fantasy), or deal with the damage.

I was also not willing to live in unhappiness, so movin on was what I had to do. Movin on may be what you end up choosing; I would hope that your were sure before you did that, though.

Still, if there are any lingering issues, unrelated to the A, that are causing resentment, they could inhibit your ability to 'get over it'.

Melody I am calling myself a hypocrite because i am posting on a marriage building site when right at the moment that is the least thing on my mind.

I am 43, my FWH is 50 we have been married for 23 years together 25 years, we have 3 kids, DD20, DD18, DS16 and his A was Dec 2006-Feb 2007, he got DEATHLY ill approx 2 weeks after D-Day (Jan 19 2007) and our M recovery kind of got put on the back burner for health recovery. He was off work until June 2007 (OW was a co-worker), OW left company July 2007, called him Aug 2007, NC since then. So in comparison to a lot that i have read on here it was not that bad but it still HURTS like h@ll.

Well i am not sure which i am, i would like to think i am a big picture kind of person but my mind runs constantly (it causes sleeping issues with me and always has it has just been worse since the A). And i am ALMOST to the point of agreeing with you about either being unhappy or moving on. Notice i said ALMOST, i haven't quite given up just yet but am very close.

And it is not even that i am unhappy because that would be wrong to say too. I guess i just don't want to feel like i settled maybe. I don't even really know my own d@mn feelings so how is my FWH supposed to help me get over them.

I think there are always issues in any M, i guess how i am handling them is just probably different than it was pre-A.

You are not a hypocrite at all, you are a person who is recovering from a devastating and traumatic shock. There is nothing hypocritical about that. You have to recover in order to have a marriage, SC. You are doing EXACTLY what you are supposed to do in the aftermath of an affair: GRIEVING.


Not as bad? Your husbands affair was as a traumatic as being RAPED or the death of a child. That is pretty bad, SC. Please give yourself a BREAK. You are SUPPOSED to be grieving; this is part of recovery. You are not a HYPOCRITE, you are a woman who has been badly HARMED who is trying to recover from her wounds.

Is he doing the things that will ensure you are not constantly triggered? ie: accounting for his time, avoiding all contact with OW, being honest?

He does a lot of things for me, he is transparent with his time, he gives me his cell phone as soon as he walks in the door, he has been NC since her call in Aug of last year (which he told me about the call or else i would have never known). He really is trying hard.

Then you have me who even though he calls to tell me his schedule is changing (and this happened pre-A as well) can only think "yeah right again" even as i am telling him "thank you for letting me know".

Why do i do this to myself? And i have a ridiculous trigger that even i feel he should not have to give up which is his man cave in our garage. I am the one who is doing most of this to myself d@mn it, i just do not know how to stop. I do not know how to put it behind me so i have about come to the conclusion that maybe i am one of those people who can't put it behind them even though that is what i want to do more than anything in this world.

SC, you put it behind you by GRIEVING. And going through recovery. JUST LIKE YOU ARE DOING NOW. You are not going to be able to just magically put this behind you and make it go away. That is not how it works.

It took me about 2 years to be able to put it behind me and that is the average. You aren't even at a year from the last contact, SC. Recovery begins when contact ends.

SC, listen to Melody, she really knows what she's talking about.

ML - Welcome Back, it's been a little while. :-)

SC, please stop fighting the fact that you are GRIEF STRICKEN. You have been badly harmed and are making it worse by kicking yourself because you are on the floor bleeding. You need SELF SOOTHING, not kicks in the side. Give yourself FIRST AID, not castigation. There is nothing wrong with you. You cannot cure NORMAL. You are being way too hard on yourself. {{{{{{{{{SC}}}}}}}}

I keep trying to remember this Melody, I guess i just also worry that my not "getting over it" is hurting our recovery somehow.

Maybe i do still just need time to sort it all out in my head.

hey, NRO!

We must have posted at the same time. Ok i will try to take it a little easier on myself. I told my H i was trying to be more POSITIVE about everything and here i am beating myself up again.

I just really do not want to keep beating him up as he really does feel guilty about all the pain he caused me and the kids (not that i have been but i sometimes hate to even talk about things because i don't want him to feel like i am beating him up).

You have this backwards. You must RECOVER in order to "get over it." That means allowing yourself to grieve, not kicking yourself for feeling pain.

Don't be dredging up the affair again and again after you have all the facts. Just let him know you are feeling down again. Then, COME HERE and vent your grief TO US.

Also, you are NOT a hypocrite and I would appreciate it if you would change your title to something TRUTHFUL, like: Having a Hard Day. There is nothing wrong with you, SC. You are not weak or bad or hypocritical. You are wounded and you are trying to heal, that is all.

I don't, it is usually him. I think because his illness was so serious and so close to the end of the A that in his head they are kind of both the same thing in a way (i know that doesn't make any sense but it is hard to explain).

He will say things like "he is feeling so much better now" and i will ask him what he means and he will say "you know after what happened and me being sick".

You tell me how and i will.

Go back and edit your first post on this thread. I am pretty sure you can change the title that way. Thanks

Sounds like a man who is understanding the pain he caused, not only to you and his family, but to himself. This is GOOD progress; he's still got a ways to go, just as you do.

You experienced trauma, SC. Severe trauma. I've seen you compare your sitch to others' many times, saying something about how you had it easier, so you should feel lucky. You didn't have it easier, SC, you had it different.

Even if you left your H today, the remnants of the trauma lay with you, and you would have to grieve and heal. TRUST ME.

Oh my goodness you have the tears flowing with this post darn it

I AGREE, Still.

You are in the process of HEALING.

I'm 4 years out here in RECOVERY..seems like it took FOREVER to get to the place where WE are NOW.

And I now GET what you were saying about the SF issue after your hysterectomy.

Sorry for my DENSENESS earlier today.

SC

I think you've come a long way since you first started posting. That is a positive. Take a step back and look at your progress. It's real.

What you are going through is very normal. I know that I have been there. I've said the "yeah right" thing many times. And I thought...is this it? Is this the state of being that I fought so hard for? It didn't seem enough and I went into a rut. And that's when I decided to stop trying to recover and let life just happen. I stopped obsessing about ENs and LBs. I just lived.


I still practiced everything I had learned here, but I stopped waiting for that glorious morning when I would wake up and I would be magically healed. I don't think it comes like that. There's definitely a corner that's turned but it can sneak up on you.

Give your weary self a rest. Relax and see what happens.

Thanks for that and i can see it too i just wish it were more, which leads me to this...


I really do need to work on this!!!

You are WORKING on it and that's GREAT!!

Hi 'crazy !

Mel is absolutely correct. You must give yourself permission to grieve. This is a phase that most BS squish because it feels bad and unproductive, but you must run what you lost through your fingers and mourn it until you know exactly what that is.

I do believe that some BS get beyond betrayal far better than others, and I don't know why that is. I have held different opinions regarding the reasons for that over the years but I now just admit there's no rhyme or reason to it.

I see people who value what they have built through recovery enough to help them stop dwelling on past hurts. They are blessed IMO.

Also BigKahuna ( a mate) tells me that EVERY marriage can be a loving recovered marriage if both spouses fully adhere to the MB plan. I don't have those ingredients so I can't comment, but HE does and he and Mrs Kahuna are very happy so that infers he is right !

I know that as I approach 4 years past d-day my life is generally happy, my wife loves me and my kids have an excellent stable, loving home. People are far worse off than I am.

But some days all that blessing just feels like so much turd polish. Those days grow less frequent though.

No clever answers from me, just empathy and an offer of hope that if your spouse fully hops on board the MB bus with you there are living examples that show your marriage can be incredibly happy despite adultery !

all blessings

SC I'm so glad to you see posting this thread. You are getting wonderful advice....peace to you my friend.

I know you are all correct in what you are saying, it has gotten better since D-day, some days are better than others and my H is trying really hard to make amends for the pain he caused.

And BP said it correctly when he said that the grieving part seems so unproductive but if that is what i must do then so be it, onward and upward

I was thinking last night that my H's illness played a very big part in our recovery, it could have been a good thing and it could have been a bad thing.

He had only been back home for two weeks when he got sick and he was so sick that "I" put the A on the back burner because he needed to work on getting well. He was in the hospital or at home for 4 and 1/2 months. During that time we discussed our MARRIAGE alot and the things we needed to work on to have a better marriage but we did not discuss the A itself. So we became VERY close during that period.

Then when my H was going back to work (OW was a co-worker and still worked there) and here we are already almost 6 months past D-day and 4 and 1/2 months past NC it started all over again in my mind anyway so i started flipping out. Not only did i want all the details i of course wanted NC. My H didn't understand this at first and i think it was because we had really not talked about the A. He did finally understand and the OW was true to her form and would not leave my H alone so he turned her in to HR and she left the company.

This i think hurt our recovery in a way. By the time my H went back to work we had grown so close again and our MARRIAGE was doing so great because we were working on meeting each other's EN so much that our love banks were overflowing (you would think a GREAT think right?). Well i "think" what ended up happening was my H had by then already knew what a mistake eevry thing was and was totally DONE with the A so he thought it would be fine to just return to working with OW and it would be no big deal. He was kind of indifferent to the whole A itself so it was like i had just been hit by the A.

If you have read through this whole thing i do not really have a question i guess i am just rambling and wondering if the bassackwardness of our recovery was a good thing or a bad thing?

I THINK IT WAS A GOOD THING!!

I think your H was able to go through WITHDRAWAL and fall in love with you again!!

I think that you have every reason to feel confident about the success of your marriage!!

It will take TIME for you to HEAL personally but your H's illness was actually a BLESSING, IMO, if you believe in that. I DO!!

It is good that you are here talking to people who have been through it before you make any firm and lasting decisions about your marriage. I have thought the same thing at times. I am a detail person mostly, but do have enough big picture in there to stay with my FWW. It can be extremely difficult, though. The movies that run through your head, especially in the night, can be really rough. On the occasions that the WS is in a bad mood and is surly, it brings back memories of what it was like during the A.

Things are not going to be easy, but people keep telling me to give it time. That is what I am going to do, especially with very small children. It is easier for us to reconcile because I didn't have to expose, so we don't have to deal with the family issues. If it ever occurred again, I would expose in a heartbeat and leave with the children. The A didn't end immediately in my FWW's situation, but it did taper off dramatically and then soon break. Their relationship wasn't good anyway. Everyone's situation is different, but the process is still very similar. If we don't give time for recovery if they have definitely ended the A, are remorseful, and are trying, we really aren't being totally fair. Maybe that's just my opinion, but I am praying things will work out. I have the same hope for you. Good luck.

You know, SC, when I talked to Jennifer Harley, she mentioned getting away with PWC, away from 'normal' life, take a vacation, or an extended weekend alone. She said it could help us to regroup and start to combine our efforts, to bond. We did go on vacation together, but we had our son with us, and spent very little time alone (and not because we COULDN'T).

What I'm getting at is that you two did get to spend lots of time together, talking, laughing, just being together; meanwhile, your FWH was going thru withdrawal, and you were there for him, reaffirming how much of a great wife you were. For him, he MAY have been completely indifferent by the time he went back to work.

The one thing that threw in that monkey wrench was the lack of EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS, by not returning to that job as long as OW was there. That hurt YOU, and probably drained your LB.

OW's gone now, and you are grieving and healing. You were probably in the 'honeymoom' phase for quite a long time, right after your WH came home, which IS good, but the harsh reality came barrelling down on you when your FWH returned to work.

You know SL you are proabably right. We were in the "honeymoon" phase for the whole time he was home. And i really believe that he was indifferent by the time he went back to work i really do. But boy oh boy did reality hit ME like a TON OF BRICKS when it came barreling down when he went back to work.

Now just trying to remove the d@mn bricks is the next step

Good luck to you, SC.

Thanks Krazy. I want to wish you good luck as well. You and i have seemd to agree on a lot of things on these boards and we both also UNFORTUNATELY still have a lot of anger to deal with.

I really can not even begin to imagine how hard it has been for you, like many people have said before i only IMAGINE what happened you had to see it. I know the pain from BETRAYAL is horrible.

I hope that you too can recover your marriage and make it better than it was before and that BOTH of us can get past our anger. I am sure that our anger hurts us more than it helps us, just figuring out how to let it go is REALLY TOUGH.

These boards have helped but i do sometimes just have to steer clear of threads that really trip my trigger or else i get on a roll like we did the other day on wade's thread. I am getting better at that for sure.

I hope that everyone on here who says just take time is right because it definitely is no fun at all.

The closest thing I've seen to my d-day is the first 5 minutes of "Minority Report", minus the murder of course.

I wish medical science would allow me to erase that event from my memory permanently. Maybe someday!

On Friday night things got really ugly at my house, there were DJs and AOs GALORE.

My H and I were having a discussion about him taking a new job that he has been offered. He wanted to know my opinion on whether he should take it or not. I have never been one to really even suggest where my husband works, I figure he is the one who has to be there every day not me he needs to be happy going to work (as happy as you can be going to work anyway LOL).

Well I kind of have an issue with a person at this new place where he has been offered a position. I have mentioned him in posts before. My H and I used to go out with this guy a lot. He seems get free tickets to things every week and would offer some to my H and I. The last time we went it was to a movie premier and we met him before the movie to have a drink (this was the first time we had met him prior to an event we usually just met him there). Well when we got to the bar he was with a woman that was NOT his wife, she was introduced as a co-worker/friend. Well it only took about 10 minutes or so before it was quite obvious these two were more than just co-workers/friends. So that night I told my H that this person, to me, was no longer a friend of our M. So my H has quit excepting invitations with this guy but he still talks to him quite frequently (both business and non-business things) and he has never really told him why we quit accepting his invitations he just always tells him we are busy.

So when my H asked about this new job he has been offered I did mention that I would feel very uncomfortable with him working at the same place as this guy since my H and I have hung out with him a lot. I told him that I would not like it if he and this guy went out to lunch and things like that. My H just kept saying that “we do not know for sure” and he is correct about that. So then when I said something about I know we do not know for sure, but trust me “I know” (because it was OBVIOUS that night and even my H said on that night that it sure did seem like they were more than friends). He then got upset and said something about me “getting over it and that I had to COMMIT to our relationship”. My goodness gracious when he said they words to me I WENT OFF ON HIM.

Things have settled down but some pretty ugly things were said on both sides and I am more confused than ever about our M and his “getting it” when it comes to the hurt he has caused me. I do not want my H to suffer but it seems as though life has just gone back to normal for him and I am left with having to deal with the backlash of his A.

Sorry about the vent just goes along with my bad month or so…..

I believe your questioning this guys character IS in line with being committed to your marriage, because you are trying to PROTECT it. Being around this guy could bring about an atmosphere that is not condusive to fidelity, IMO.

Approaching your FWH with your concerns, and voicing how much you are trying to be honest and do your part in protecting the M, without the LB's and AO's could go a long way to understanding.

Then again, if your WH is trying to dodge the consequences of his A, this needs to be brought up, too. PROTECTION is of vital importance. Keeping out of situations that have the potential to cause problems is imperative. This guy is a bad nut.

Remind him that you will get over it when you get over it, not a moment sooner, and not by any outside source; it will come from within, and it takes you healing IN TIME. His demand is selfish.

I was really trying to just get my point across without DJs and AOs until he said that "I" needed to "commit" to our M. Those words coming out of his mouth were just too much for me and like i said I WENT OFF.

I am not saying it was a good thing but it happened none the less. And it was not a pretty site that is for sure. I said lots of hurtful things about the A and how it has affected me and that it was his fault, i mean it was UGLY for sure.

Bump.... Just wondering if i should not be so upset about this guy where my H is going to be working.

You can't NOT be upset by something you are upset by. There is a reason for it. You need to ask yourself WHY you are upset and take that to your conversation. HONESTY.

I know you've already heard from me, but IMO, it's important that you BOTH agree to job changes (POJA).

If you think this guy is shady, I don't think you should hold that back (and you didn't, as we can see). The AO's and LB's need to be contained, though, SC. Not easy, I know, but necessary. Now all he heard was that SC is angry with me; he didn't hear your point, which was that you are EXTREMELY uncomfortable with this situation. YOu must readdress this issue, when things are calm.

I also hear your WH sweeping away, from what you told us. It seems that he wants recovery to be easier; it's not going to be, especially if you really start implementing these necessary changes to protect your marriage. Be honest with him, and ask for what you need. Does he HAVE To change jobs right now? If so, what other positions are available in the area? Is this shift work, and can he avoid this guy with another shift? Troubleshoot this together. CALM down and talk to each other, POJA.

No it is not necessary for him to change jobs, in fact he will be taking a $3.00 on the hour pay cut to take this other job. He has already accepted the other job and is waiting for all of his back ground check information to make it back to the new company before he gives his two week notice to his current company.

And we have discussed this guy and my feelings about the situation CALMLY before but my H just still thinks that i should not feel the way i feel. Even after Friday's big blow up when he took me to lunch yesterday (he only worked half a day so he could take care of tests for the new job) who was he on the phone with when he picked me up. Yep the same guy in question. You would think that even if he does not feel the same way i feel about the situation, just because it upsets me he would think a little more about my feelings instaed of just acting like they are no big deal. Maybe i am asking too much

Ok, wait a minute! He took the job without discussing it with you first? Now I have a better idea why you are angry.

SC, honestly I don't know what to say. I would be angry, too. This is a real problem, in terms of recovery. You guys aren't discussing IMPORTANT stuff BEFORE decisions are made. This is independent behavior at it's worst.

Well to give him the benefit of the doubt when he asked me about accepting the job when it was offered this particular guy was the ONLY reason i did not want him to accept this position.

I know my H and because he feels that we "do not know for sure" he will think nothing about being social with this guy i just know how my H is and i know that is what he will do and probably just not tell me about it because he does not want to listen to me b@tch about it.

I put my post on the Recovery section as well and this is in reply to something CV55 said to me about my Hs actions.

Whatever happened to the POJA? I think I would be even more angry than you if my FWW went to work with someone who we thought was having an affair and who had been a good friend previously. I would be upset if she worked with the person who new about and condoned her affair. What sort of influence does he expect the guy will have? I think that your husband needs to start taking your opinion and feelings a little more seriously. It sounds like he doesn't get how he is the really guilty party and needs to do whatever is required of him to reconcile. Well, that's my opinion, and It is probably worth about what you paid for it.

Well Marc the sad part is that i agree with you wholeheartedly. I just am not sure what to do about it. Like i said i don't know if this should be a "deal breaker" for me.

I really do not believe his was a good job move for lots of other reasons but my H believes that it is a good move. I just know how he is though and i know that he will socialize with this guy and i DO NOT like it. I also am guessing that he will hide it from me because he knows i do not like it. I know these are DJs but i KNOW my H.

This A crap is a pain in the [censored] to say the least.

Here's the thing about POJA, it takes TWO willing parties. You can't use POJA alone.

I am concerned about SC's FWH's independent behavior. It sounds like the relationship is headed back to how it was Pre-A. Now, if this is okay with SC, then I have absolutely no problem with it either. It doesn't sound like this behavior is OK with her.

You cannot force somebody else to follow MB. You can ask. You can also try to POJA WHAT PLAN YOU ARE GOING TO FOLLOW. Maybe a MC; maybe a BOOK, maybe you come up with your own plan, using tools you've gained over the years. I dunno the answer, I can only say that his current method is NOT the answer, and SC's response to his method (AOs, DJs, and the like) is not the answer.

None of this behavior was ok with me, and I never felt protected. I was always waiting for the next shoe to drop (either an A, or he would just leave, or delve deeper into the alcohol to avoid, or that good ole loveless marriage).

Oh SL you are so right. You definitely CAN NOT POJA by yourself. I give my reasoning and he just casts it aside saying that i am making things up in my head that are not there. He uses the "we don't know about this guy" and also even if he is "what does that have to do with me and you". I can not get him to see that just being friends with someone like this guy is NOT a good thing. He thinks i overreact to everything.

And i cannot get him to read ANYTHING so we really do not have a plan. He just thinks i am going to make him suffer for his mistake for the rest of his life. Therefore i also do not feel protected and am ALWAYS waiting on the other shoe to drop. I am really just getting tired of this battle, i really really am. I just do not want to fight anymore it is just not worth it o me. I am going to "settle" until my son leaves home and then i am going to go my own way and i have told my H this too. I just am tired.

This is the point I got to with PWC . It was not healthy for me. I was very honest and open with him, but he wouldn't budge.

I do see differences with your FWH, though, SC. He tries in many ways; it just seems like there is more work to be done, and he is tired, too. He may see your deadline of your son's graduation as an idle threat, and is trying to keep from that hard work.

Remember, PWC wouldn't even touch me, he wouldn't even PHYSICALLY comfort me. It was as if he was a shell of a man with me anymore. It was difficult to look at him, every day and NOT see the man I loved, the man I married. This does not seem to be true with you, but I only hear bits and pieces, and can't know the whole truth.

In your situation, it sounds like you DO see your H, but his behavior is same ole same ole. I do believe it IS possible for you two to get back on track, but it would require a lot of work from you, initially. It would require you sitting him down and asking him to help you come up with a plan for the BOTH of you to follow, right down to discussing matters of importance BEFORE any decisions are made.

Also, YOU have to establish boundaries and consequences.

Thanks for your input SL but i just either cannot or will not (not sure which it is) fight anymore. I am too tired it is no longer worth it to me. I am done trying to figure out anything.

I can have a decent life for the next year it is not like i am miserable.