My radio station DJ was relaying a story about a counselor who has determined that, since facebook was started, 4 out or 10 of all the marriage couples she's worked with had affairs that started because of facebook. We've heard it all, of course...you enter your school information, you get contacted by past people, the flattery, the remembering 'good times' that may seem better than current times...

Makes me wonder what today's generation is going to have to look forward to with marriages, when they are growing up with this constant contact with everyone they've ever known. I would think marriages would be under even more attack for them.

Cat, this has to be very true.

My DS12 wanted a FB page. I resisted the idea for a long time and finally we created one TOGETHER.

I actually feel that I get some flirty stuff almost daily to ME. I will be leaving FB simply because of poor behavior from "friends".

If it's not FB, it's something else: classmates, reunions, MySpace (same as FB, I guess), email, etc. It's more a reflection on society today than Facebook.

That's true, but the lady doing the research (I haven't found it on the Web yet) said that it's facebook specifically because you are supposed to enter your junior high and high schools, whereas you aren't asked that anywhere else, so it kind puts you in instant contact with high school sweethearts.

I signed up a couple months ago at the request of our church youthleader, and within a week, a classmate from high school whom I haven't seen in over 30 years contacted me! I never in my life would have gone looking for her. So then, I looked at her 'friends' or whatever they call them, and saw the guy I went to homecoming with. Hadn't thought of him in at least 20 years. Didn't click on him, but I thought about it for a nanosecond. I can see how easily it happens.

And as soon as the DJ said that, he had 2 guys call up who said their wives got into affairs from facebook. One was working on his 23 year marriage with his wife; the other, married one year, kicked her out.

WHY does anyone not have their FB set to PRIVATE - only my friends and family can see me.

I agree with OurHouse - Facebook is just a medium. Affairs can start with emails, phone calls, chats at the bus stop, lunches in the breakroom at work, projects at your child's school... the problem is not Facebook, the problem is poor boundaries.

You don't *have* to enter your high school etc. into Facebook. You don't *have* to accept friend invitations. You can even block people so you don't see their profile, get their invitations to "be my friend" or receive messages from them.

It's all about boundaries. Facebook is a risky medium for those who have poor boundaries to begin with, but for those with well established boundaries it's just like the rest of life.

The nanosecond catperson spent thinking about her homecoming date would also have occurred if she'd been flipping through her yearbook and seen his photo. When she saw him on Facebook, she could easily click his name and block him. That way she'd be "invisible" before he ever knew she had an account.

So sure, Facebook can be abused. But if used properly, it can also help enforce boundaries. It's all about the person using Facebook, not about the site itself.

I agree. Facebook has put me in touch with lots of beautiful people from my past, who have not abused the privilege of being part of my life again.

And if anyone did, I have a mouse and I know how to use it!

Thanks Turtlehead. I'm not exactly a Facebook fan for many reasons but I think it gets a bad rap for the affair issue. It's like Craigslist taking the rap for the murders that happened when people advertised 'erotic' services.

There's a lot of social marketing out there. I have a Facebook page. I did it because I wanted to keep an eye on my kids' pages and keep them 'PG'. You can pick and choose how much information you want to post about yourself and how public or private you are. I started out on FB posting almost no info about myself and being very private. I'm still very private (only direct friends can see my profile and even read my comments posted on others' pages), and my 'info' page is pretty blank. However, I've become a member of my elementary school group, a member of the neighborhood where I grew up, I started a high school group (I went to a very small girls' high school) and as a result of this, I have connected with some childhood friends and some high school friends. If I had poor boundaries, I'm sure I could have done some damage. I'm sure that people on classmates.com, reuinion.com, etc., are capable of doing the same damage.

For that matter, I'm very active on LinkedIn. It's a business networking site and my profile is far more public, and I'm connected to far more people than I am on Facebook. And through LinkedIn, I've reconnected with a LOT of people with whom I used to work and yes, even one or two I used to date. If I had poor boundaries, I could be pursuing something there. And that's a strictly BUSINESS networking site.

So it's not Facebook. It's the person on the computer and it drives me crazy when the media blows it up out of proportion.

It is a tool....how is it used? I have a number of former high school classmates who are FB friends. But, I am in control of what I send them and how I respond to what they send me.

Furthermore, I send almost nothing flirty or suggestive to any man except my boyfriend. There is one other man I might, MIGHT, send something flirty to and that is a gay man with whom I used to work but whom I haven't seen in a couple of years.

You can take an axe and accomplish different tasks with it...you can chop down a tree, split wood for a fence or fire, or chop a person up.....

How are you going to use the tool?

Exactly.

The thing I like most about Facebook is that I can post my family photos there and share them all at once with all my family and friends to whom I'm connected and they can comment. In addition to being a great place to back up digital photos, it's fun to share events. My son went to his prom last weekend. I posted photos. I have lots of long-distance friends with kids about the same age and it was fun to see *their* prom pictures and exchange comments. It's a great way of staying in touch with people to whom you have a connection of some sort, but are too busy or too far away to connect with frequently.

I have one friend 3000 miles away whose daughter is a swimmer, like my son. We exchange info and comments about that. I have a friend who posted pictures of a huge freak spring snowstorm and it was fun exchanging comments about that.

I'm sure Facebook is used to further adulterious behavior but those people are going to find some outlet for their infidelity with or without Facebook.

I don't think the doctor was saying that facebook caused them to have affairs. She was just saying that, of those were were there because of affairs, 40% of them got in touch via facebook. Meaning it had a hand in facilitating it; i.e., it made it easier to run into someone you had feelings for from your past.

Not to belabor the point. I don't doubt that if someone with poor boundaries got in touch w/ someone via FB, the potential is there. But there's just a subtle way the media present things such as this and it's all done for the headline grabbing attention (and subsequent ratings) it gets and it drives me crazy. If 40% got in touch via FB and FB didn't exist, that same 40% would have either had an affair with a stranger, met up with an old flame through a reunion or another online site such as classmates, gotten in touch via email, etc.

It's just convenient to 'blame' Facebook and let people off the hook for their own behavior. This tendency to point fingers and say 'not my fault, such-and-such MADE me do it' or the general sense of entitlement prevalent in our society today drives me insane and the way this FB story is presented is just another typical example. If I were in public relations for Facebook, I'd be all over this story like white on rice.

This will come as a shock to the vast majority of BS whose WS had a WORKPLACE adultery.

>to any man except my boyfriend.

(giggle)

OT: Cinders has a boyfriend....I'm gonna sing that all day and smile, smile, smile.

not to belabor the point, lol, but this wasn't a news story per se; it was a woman who posted a research paper, nothing more. The media just picked up on the paper she wrote.

Ok, I won't slam the woman. I don't think I was slamming her to begin with. My beef is the media. Your statement 100% supports what I just said about how they just troll for headline news. Sheesh.

Well, just who did you think I meant every time I have referred to THE DIPLOMAT? And, those diplomatic missions - surely you didn't think I was referring to traveling with Condeleeza and Hillary!

Boyfriend....sounds like a teenager not a educated man with years of experience in different career fields. There needs to be a better term for 'mature' boyfriends. Like, when my mom had a boyfriend and she was in her 70s and he was in his 80s. Boyfriend - schmoyfriend. Manfriend doesn't work either.

BTW, he's coming to town next week for my daughter's high school graduation. Usually, when he comes, I send my children to their dad's. Gonna be harder to do this time. Sigh. We can't have such prolonged strategic arms negotiations with them around. Keep that PDA stuff to a minimum - behave like adults, not teenagers. Having a boyfriend and teenagers is tricky. :crosseyedcrazy:

Do you honestly mean you hadn't figured out The Diplomat, who has been around for years, is my boyfriend?

Speaking only for ourselves, but FogFree and I have discussed FB and other social networking sites after being invited by our children to join, and we decided that avoiding them altogether is consistent with our EP's that we've put in place to avoid any potential for inapporpriate behavior.

Personally, I think its a good policy for any M'd couple, ESPECIALLY those who have already been affected by infidelity.

How does this work, then? How do people find you in order to "friend" you?

I don't have a FB account so don't really understand it...though I would like to have one to find some old girlfriends I have lost contact with. These things are such an issue in our house, however, I'm not sure it could ever be POJA'ed.

Can you explain a little bit how it could be used safely?

I enjoy FB as a way to keep up with relatives in other states. I have 3 aunts, my mom, my husbands grandmother, an uncle, and a bunch of cousins as my friends on there. It's nice. I can share pics of the kiddos without having to go through email. It's a lot easier.

MF, you can use the FB search function to find people. But when you click on their name, just a box comes up with their name and a message saying you have to be a FB friend to see their profile. Then there's a link where you can request they 'friend' you and along with the request, you can add a message. That's how some old friends found me. If an old boyfriend were to find me and I felt uncomfortable about it, I would simply 'ignore' the request. Or if a FB friendship took a turn that left me feeling uncomfortable, I'd remove them from my FB friend list.

Neither of those things has happened to me. So far, FB has been a positive experience for me. I was exchanging comments this AM with a HS friend (female) about winning the lottery or inheriting a lot of money from a rich relative. Just joking around. And I'd not spoken more than 20 words to this person since graduating HS 30 years ago. I have her email address but there's not been any interaction until a group of us joined FB.

And in high school? I used to date her brother. In the 4 months she's been my FB 'friend', I've not asked her, nor have I wanted to ask her, about her brother. But that's me--I know my boundaries. That's a great example of how it could be dangerous for someone with boundary issues.

>Boyfriend....sounds like a teenager not a educated man with years of experience in different career fields.

That's the bit that makes me smile and sing. I knew who you were talkin' about...I just like "boyfriend" better than Diplomat...sounds much more FUN!

And I like hearin' it from YOU cos YOU ARE THE BEES KNEES, DARLIN'!

>How do people find you in order to "friend" you?


They don't. If I know of someone on FB that I want to friend, I send the request...otherwise, only those near and dear are in my circle.

My FB friends total 51 (I just checked :))

There are four males, the rest are female friends.

1. My H
2. My 23 year old son (I am thinking of UN-friending him because of swine flu harrassment)
3. My DD's boyfriend
4. My H's sometimes employee who thinks of me as his mom


The females range from DD's girlfriends (DD will not "friend" me LOL) , Son's friends (he hates that LOL), co-workers (lots) , college friends, high school friends, and a handfull of MB women (who ROCK !).



Oh - and several relatives, cousins, nieces, sister etc.

This article makes it sound as if there was no adultery before FB. It's just another way WS's can get their fix - like the cell phone, IM's, or anything else. Cheaters cheat and they use the tools given to them to do so. Those 4 out of 10 would have found another way if they did not have FB.

>and a handfull of MB women (who ROCK !).


Yeah, well, yer pretty spankin' kewl, too!

LOL, Pep, my DD won't "friend" me either. She is appalled that I have a FB and have her friends on my friend list. She's REALLY peeved that I know how to tweet.

I enjoy the FB approach for being able to post pictures, write silly one-line notes to girlfriends, and keep up with family. I have a few colleagues that I've gotten to know better because of FB. I generally avoid friending non-relative males, and the couple of exceptions on my friend list I have absolutely no discussion with.

If you are open to cheating, FB is one of many tools readily available to anyone that can make cheating seem easier, more fun, and more exciting.

The medium is no more dangerous than a cell phone or email to a person who is not open to cheating.

I've decided which kind of person I want to be.

I think the point the lady was making was that this particular forum is more tied into your past (i.e. listing your schools and then creating a sub-database on that), and that the psychological aspect of running into someone from your 'golden days' rather than just anyone you meet online is a more dangerous combination - for those who are susceptible for affairs.

:crosseyedcrazy:

I will tell him you said so!!!

And again I disagree. Why Facebook over all others? Why not classmates.com? Why not Twitter? Why not MySpace? Why not a gazillion other social/viral networking sites out there?

I think this lady needs to do some more research and justify her numbers.

Boundaries ARE important. But all of us here know that people who have "good" boundaries can end up in an affair because they were able to establish a secret life, often without realizing they were doing so. That secret life enables the boundaries to gradually be moved.

Boundaries and transparency go hand in hand. If your FB, or whatever accounts you have, is not transparent to your spouse, then you DO have a poor boundary by even participating in that community.

I'd like to see those here with FB accounts discuss how they've made their accounts transparent to their spouses. I think that information would be very valuable to keeping marriages affair-proof.

My husband has my sign in and password. He has told me he could care less. Oh well, but he does have them.

Maybe this was sensationalism aimed at selling some magazine articles, getting a book deal, or upping her speaking fee.

OH,

He could care less.

BUT..

if he started noticing behaviors in you that made him uneasy, he might decide to snoop a bit. Because you furnished that information, he CAN see what you're up to if ever he felt the need or desire.

Transparency is about always keeping your life an open book to your spouse.

Whether they choose to glance in the book, scan the book, or read every word on every page is up to them.

Facebook is about making connections with people who have some sort of relationship (friend, relative, co-worker, classmate, etc). The other sites you mention are more about connecting with people who have similar interests (music, art, hobbies, etc). And classmates.com is a pay site. There's more likely to be some sort of pre-existing relationship with Facebook friends than on the other services.

That said, it's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I have really enjoyed reconnecting on Facebook with friends that I've lost touch with. I can definitely see how that re-kindling of relationships could lead to affairs by those who are susceptable to that. But it doesn't mean everyone is susceptable. Like, it may be dangerous for an alcoholic to go into a bar, but that doesn't mean everyone who goes into a bar will become an alcoholic.

How many of us could have caught an EA before it developed into an EA if we had checked on an email account or online community account when we had the FIRST inkling that something was "weird"?

If our marriages had been transparent, many of us would have caught our spouse's affair when it was just "inappropriate behavior". Our spouses were able to move boundaries BECAUSE they had the ability to be secretive. Transparency removes the ability to be secretive.

Are you not susceptible because you have affair-proofed your marriage?

Same here.

Ok, so here is my problem:

I am completely willing to be 150% transparent and keep a FB account set to private so that no one can find me unless I find them first.

I am willing to have only women as "friends", unless it is a relative.

HOWEVER...I am afraid that if I get one, FWH will want one as well...and he has shown to have very poor boundaries.

Is it fair for me to have one but not "enthusiastically agree" to him having one?

Share one account.

IMO, yes. He has shown his boundaries are weak.

I forgot - one of my FB "friends" is a minor celebrity.
Jill Conner Browne (she accepts all friend requests LOL)

She is THE SPQ and author of the SPQ books.

I like that answer!

Oh, that makes sense! classmates.com probably has its fair share of affairs, too, but it's not as easy to use as Facebook and doesn't have the big membership that FB has. That does make sense.

He has my login and password and I have his.

MF, it would be wrong for him to have an account if you are not enthusiastic about it.

It would also be wrong for YOU to have an account if HE is not enthusiastic about it.

I like the "shared account" thing, I will consider talking to him about that...I have to first decide if it's something I really want to do.

I guess even that makes me a bit nervous...during the A he had a myspace account in which he contacted ex-girlfriends and looked others from his past up. He could do that with a FB account as well, I suppose...what I really WANT is for his boundaries to be iron clad so that I don't have to worry about this sort of thing anymore...it's a real bummer.

Yes, he's shown he has poor boundaries.

This is something you guys should POJA.
Two possibilities that come to mind are:
He gives you his login and password
You both share one account

Sharing one account isn't too bad - you won't want to see all his friends' updates all the time and he won't want to see yours... it turns into noise that you have to trudge through to get to stuff you're interested in. So you can make groups of friends (for example, I have highschool friends, college friends, family, work colleagues, and a couple based on interests like gardening or music -- I've put some of my friends into more than one group). Then you can filter things so you only see "my friends" or "his friends" updates and comments when you log in. You can change the filter with one mouse click, it's super easy.

cat,

I think this is exactly right. Facebook and the like pose a unique set of temptations related to reconnecting with old flames. Even "innocent" curiosity about how an old boyfriend's life turned out can lead to a road you have no business going down. The risk is too great.

Here is an article and a blog relating to this phenomenon that I thought were interesting.

Does Facebook Encourage Adultery?

Facebook affairs

Also, no one is saying this is the only way affairs can start. Of course the workplace and current friends are fertile grounds for an affair.

My wife was contacted by an old flame after he Googled her and found her work email. They hadn't spoken or seen each other in more than 20 years. This led to a brief EA, with statements of lingering love (by OM), discussing their breakup, emotional apologies, old affectionate nicknames, etc. I found out and ended it before it went too far. The resulting damage almost ended our marriage. We are still in counseling and trying to recover 17 months later.

To think Facebook doesn't make affairs easier is naive, IMO. That MB folks don't get this is beyond me, especially given the many examples on this very site of Facebook affairs.

To those defending the use of Facebook and saying that they have no intention of using it to have an affair: Of course you don't intend to have an affair. Almost nobody wakes up and says "I'm going on Facebook today and try to find my old boyfriend and have an affair with him."

Why put yourself directly in the path of temptation?

Facebook, MySpace, and the others have high security measures. It's all about boundaries and making YOURSELF accountable for your own actions. So many people want to blame these sites for affairs, murders, and other stuff. "It wasn't me! FB made me do it!" That's bullcrud. I am really sick and tired of people not taking resposibility for their own actions and poor boundaries. The boundaries are there. If they choose not to use them, then it's their OWN FAULT, not FB, not MySpace, not anything else. They can only point the finger at themselves.

I have the same fears, MF. Luckily, my husband has no interest in FB for himself. But if he did, I would want his password/login. And we'd have to be connected--just like we are on LinkedIn.

I'm glad someone finally pointed out the OBVIOUS!

I am not sure if Facebook is the real culprit here. May be because they are the most popular. BUT there is no denying that as we become more "advanced" it makes it that much more easy to facilitate these affairs using some of the tools out there.

My wife conducted her affair with IM, Cell phone, emails to begin with. Without these, who knows, she could still have had the affair BUT it made it that much more easy. They bring strangers closer in a short time and makes people cross their boundaries that much more easily. AGAIN, I am not blaming any of the tools out there outright. At the end of the day, if someone blamed FB, cell phones or dating sites for affairs, I would respond, "you must be nuts". But then not everyone is not like you and me. For some it takes that one temptation or two to cross the boundary.

SMB, good, thoughtful question.

Chewie knows i have an account and it is easily accessible on my computer, which is in public view in our shared study. The password is known to him, but i keep it signed in anyway. I discuss things I am doing on FB with him.

I keep my profile accessible only to friends.

I would not be comfortable with Chewie maintaining an account, for precisely the reason MarriedForever stated. Chewie has shown himself to have poor boundaries.

I maintain the same "open computer" policy with respect to everything I do on the computer. It's all right there out in the open. Chewie doesn't choose to look, but he can if he wants to.

Anyone who wants to keep secrets can easily do so. Hidden accounts, secret cell phones as close as the local grocery store, unaccounted-for bits of time.

How did we possibly ever have any type of social contact and human life before Facebook?

Oh the horror of living in the stone age without Facebook.

I'm an alcoholic but I'm just using the Jack Daniels to clean cuts and to disinfect the toilet. How dare you tell me I should use something else besides Jack Daniels. Its ridiculous to think I'd be so weak to be tempted to take a sip occasionally.

It's raining today. My son comes home and asks me if I've heard anything about whether or not there's LAX practice today. I haven't (why would I? LOL). I ask him to call a few team members. He comes back upstairs and says "I don't know." I say "no one answers their phone?" (of course no one calls the landline anymore either--the kids either text or call each other's cell). So he says 'no one is on Facebook".

LOL

HHHMMM:

"4 out of 10 affairs start with Facebook?"

It seems with a divorce rate of 50%, then Facebook COULD be lowering the divorce rate if only 4 outta 10 get involved and that other studies suggest that 60% of all marraiges are tainted by infidelity.

Depends on how you look at statistics.

And you don't need FB, or MS, or anything else to get introduced to an AP. All you need is to get introduced.

What you do after that is your choice.

LG

Because I think it is incorrect to say that Facebook is putting yourself directly in the path of temptation. That's like saying you shouldn't have beer in the house because you're putting yourself directly in the path to become an alcoholic. If you have the viewpoint that everyone on Facebook is going to eventually have an affair, you would be incorrect.

You should definitely view it with eyes wide open, but unless you have a specific reason to think it could be a problem (past affair, being secretive), I think it's overreacting to think Facebook will lead to you or your spouse having an affair.

I just recently started using Facebook as a way to keep in touch with my family and their lives. My husband and I often read FB together. I don't have to worry about giving him my password, we share the same one for everything.

Come on people, get real. FB is just like anything else that can lead to adultery. Affairs get started in churches for God's sake (no pun intended). Should we stop going to church because of that possibility? What about coffee shops? Your kid's soccer game? What about posting on MB? It wouldn't take much to "hook up" if the interest was there.

It's all about PERSONAL MORALS and BOUNDARIES.

This is an area I have not quite worked through, but I don't think I want to have a relationship where I have to worry about my spouse moving boundaries because they have the ability to be secretive. I think I actually NEED to be able to trust my spouse. Of course, my M failed before I even thought of it this way, but this is becoming more and more my reason for not going back. I have no problem with transparency and I have no secrets of my own - I simply don't want to NEED transparency. I cannot have any kind of relationship with WXH without it now. Does this make sense?

Actually this is more to the point I was trying to make. I don't want a marriage where the chance of my spouse cheating increases because they have access to something that makes affairs easier. There will always be avenues to infidedity. I want someone with the backbone and decency not to take them. WXH isn't that man.

IMO, both spouses are transparent in a healthy marriage.

If someone is not enthusiastic about being transparent, then they should not be trusted.

If a spouse feels entitled to privacy, then they are demonstrating that they should not be trusted.

Affair or no affair.

Transparency is needed in a healthy marriage.

Share passwords... If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. I've made contact with old Navy friends I've not talked to in over 20 years due to FB. It's a great social tool that has potential to be abused.

Often people see transparency as a punishment because of adultery or that "now we HAVE to be transparent because I can't trust you."

But transparency is a QUALITY that is present in healthy, intimate marriages.

It's like that saying, someone who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Well, someone who is trustworthy, will be enthusiastic about transparency.

Yes, transparency is needed, but when it's to the point that one spouse has to read and know every little thing just to make sure the other is remaining faithful, well, it's just not the type of relationship I'd want. Sure, each spouse should have access to everything the other has, but once I felt the need to monitor it, it would be a big LB to me.

FWIW, WXH and I weren't neither untransparent, nor actively snooping into each other's stuff. But looking back at the events before D-day, he did a lot of things to build secrecy. They were obvious in retrospect, but they didn't alert me at the time because I trusted him then.

Are these opposite sex friends?

If so, I would consider that lacking a boundary that is important to keeping your marriage affair-proof.

No they are also men. I should add... I have no issue with staying in contact with frineds of opposite sex in regard to FB in the format "If your familiar with the site" Wall chat.... Wall chat is visible to everyone who is allowed access to your profile. The chat is posted in
plan site.

But it's all about the boundries you are comfortable with. Not to mention the history you have with the indivual your chatting with.

I don't find it as cut and dry as "No communication with the opposite sex".

This is true. It's not much different than men and women posting here on MB to each other. However, there is always the opportunity to receive a private email from one of your "friends" as opposed to MB where private messaging is disabled... and for good reason. Again, it's the person's personal morals and boundaries.

That is why you share passwords. We both agree to never post as the other person, Short of that our accounts are public to each other.

Oh, that's true. (I've been waiting for a chance to use this emoticon).

I have absolutely NO problem with boundaries when it comes to FB and I'm an FWW. I went to an all girl school and my only friends from my past are two women I've LOVED chatting to again, looking at their gorgeous adult kids and grandkids. I only have people I trust as my friends, my page is set to VERY private and I love "poking" my DD. I also love showing my H pics from my friends.

Fair enough. Maybe not directly in the path of temptation, but close enough that MBers ought to know better. The attitude that "I won't have an affair because I won't let it happen" is dangerous. Most waywards said that at some point. The best way to have an affair is to be so confident that you won't have one that you don't put up boundaries in advance.



Then I am not incorrect, because I never said that. I said it makes affairs easier. And we should mostly avoid anything that makes affairs easier, especially anything as unnecessary as Facebook. It's not vital to life, after all.


I really have a problem with this line of thinking. I hear it a lot.

So we wait until an affair happens to put up boundaries? A little too late, don't you think?

Billy Graham had a policy of never being in a room alone with a woman other than his wife. Not because he had ever had an affair (he hadn't), but to keep from having one. He wanted to avoid even the possibility of being tempted.

Ottert, do you even know how FaceBook works? Everything you post is visible to all of your friends (at the same time). It's very public, much like MB. To me FB is necessary. It's the BEST tool I've found for communicating with family all over the country and keeping up with my kids and grandkids.

I just recently started on FB, with Mr. W's enthusiastic agreement of course - My "profile picture" is a family photo...Mr. W and I also share the same password for most everything...I have a strict all women FB friends policy, the only exception being my little brother - of course I did used to dress him up like a GIRL when we were kids...soooooo...LOL!

It's been fun to reconnect with my old girlfriends and see their families...I also have a couple of super cool MB gal pals on there - As a matter of fact, these two women would not hesitate even for one second to kick my butt and tell Mr. W if I ever got out of line! Ahhhh, friends to my marriage...The BEST kind to have!

Mrs. W

princess,

My 17-year-old daughter has a page and she is on it daily (too much in daddy's opinion!). She is a great Christian girl (better than I can take credit for) and I don't worry much about her getting into anything inappropriate. Also, I set up an account once when a friend wanted me to look at some pictures of his family vacation. I can't remember my password or how to log on. I never set up a personal page.

I don't need to have tried meth to know it is a dangerous substance that I'd be better off without. There's just too much evidence of Facebook being a launch pad for affairs with old flames for me to ignore.

I'm sure my aversion to it is closely connected to my wife's indiscretion with her ex. I am hyper-vigilant about anything that allows a spouse to easily and secretly contact an old flame or anyone of the opposite sex. Facebook is high on my list.

I guess I see a big difference between the possibility of something happening and a certainty that something will happen. I suppose it's true that if you never had any unsupervised interactions with the opposite sex you would never have an affair. You would essentially be affair-proof. However, you would also miss out on a lot because of that constraint. So I think you should only have such a constraint if there is a reasonable chance that it can cause problems.

This reminds me of something from the show "30 Days". One episode had a Muslim who was asked why Muslims don't drink. He replied that he didn't drink because he might lose control of himself and take the Lord's name in vain. While I suppose that way of thinking is logical, it seems a bit extreme.

But I can also see where you're coming from. Being that this is GQII, most people here have had a direct impact from an affair. So maybe for this audience, an extreme limit on social networks is appropriate. But for the population in general, it's probably not nearly as dangerous.

I think FB has something like 300 million members. I would say for the vast majority of users, FB will be nothing more than a harmless way to keep up with friends. It's likely that many of your friends are on it and use it for nothing more than keeping up with their friends. So just because it may be dangerous to have in your household doesn't mean that it's dangerous to have in every household.

This is not an authoritative source and I don't present it as scientific evidence. But it is thoroughly footnoted and has some very interesting information about the prevalence of infidelity in "the population in general."

Facts and Statistics About Infidelity

One more thing: "this audience" was once in "the population in general."

Facebook story: Just happened in fact. A friend of mine from way back and I recently connected on FB. (female friend). We were connected on LinkedIn and we had each other's email addresses but other than Christmas cards, we never really communicated. We discovered through FB that our sons are attending the same college next year. And we live 3000 miles apart. So we're both excited because we may get to see each other!

That's my positive FB story for the day!

I have never used Myspace because of the viruses and adware, hence, no Facebook either. (guilty by association. I just don't want to bother, and I have no pictures to post anyway, no scanner or camera)

I'm glad I avoid it, with this info.

Due to lots of things, my profile is public, and I accept all friend requests. (There are 2 or 3 people in the world that I would turn down, but none of them have had the poor sense to ask me, lol.)

AJ & I have each other's passwords, very easy since they're the same, and we are wary of private messaging. Everything else is right there where AJ, my mom, sister, uncles, aunties, cousins, and good friends can see it.

I am now friends with a childhood nemesis, who grew up to be much less of a creep than I would have predicted, lololol, and my bestest friend from NURSERY SCHOOL if you can believe it, found me and got in touch. We have not seen each other since I was 4 or 5. We both still remember picking ripe strawberries together.

Agree with Cinders - it's all in how you use it.

According to this info, 40% of affairs start with FB. I read somewhere else that 60% of affairs start in the workplace. There's the cure - we all stop working and stop using FB and there won't be any more affairs!

Aren't statistics great? :crosseyedcrazy:

Yep!

Slight threadjack....SW here. Big shout out to all my friends out there. I did as you suggested, found evidence IMMEDIATELY and will be filing for divorce tomorrow. There is an OW, lots of porn, evidence that he is still in contact with the cousin...oh and the OW has a H that she has left, maybe 'for' my H. I've contacted him (OW's H)...we are coordinating efforts so we break it to them similtaneously. I will be back with more info when I feel it is safe....but for now, know I'm ok. Thanks for all your help!

I am officially confused.

I've never had too much interest in FB or myspace but have given thought to enrolling since a few girlfriends have asked recently. I live thousand of miles away from just about everyone so no long lost lusts are going to be knocking on my door and I have no problem telling anyone to get lost if they start crossing boundaries.

Smiley, thanks for checking in. Sorry to hear your news.

Who's Smiley?

Awesome! I'm typing my letter of resignation right now!

Oh wait, I'm not married anymore!

Seriously though, if you are so weak that you can't resist temptation offered from a website, what are you doing married in the first place?

Read here

First time in my life I have ever been glad I didn't have any high school sweethearts. At least now I don't have to worry about them contacting me on FB! I am so vulnerable to an affair, that would be tough to resist. Luckily, not something I have to worry about.

I think that today's technology in general makes having affairs "easier".

I mean when most of us grew up there were no such things as cell phones or FB or Myspace or any of them, yet we all managed to stay in touch with one another.

This is the only website that i am a part of, i do not own a cell phone, i do not own a pager, i do not IM or text or any technologically based anything and i get along just fine.

I call people and talk to them or i send them a card or letter with pictures (heck i do not even have a digital camera i still use a 35mm one).

Thank you.

>I've never had too much interest in FB or myspace but have given thought to enrolling since a few girlfriends have asked recently.

I love it because my mom, aunts, uncles, sister, cousins and friends can no longer grumble that I never share the kids' photos with them....

I'm notorious for taking the pics and then never sharing them.

Eh. I've got a Wookie, 5 little Wookies, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 guiena pigs and a turtle...with FB I can upload photos directly from my cell phone camera by sending a text message...I don't even have to log in - and I usually don't!

I might have to revoke my "accept any friend" policy. You would not believe the kind of people who have looked me up lately.



(You knows who you iz.)

Er, Kimmy, I've looked for you and I see you posting on some of my friend's walls but you're so well hidden and private I CAN'T FIND YOU.

Just yell MARCO really loud and see if you hear her say POLO.

Guilty! I registered at snapfish...never used it.

I registered with kodakgallery...never used it.

I might join although I do know POSOW is on FB too. I could always post a pick of me and H in a lip lock.

Ahem...Somebody is about to find themselves on the wrong end of the "de-friended stick"!!!

Mrs. W

FB, and Bebo for that fact, didnt start the A, but certainly helped keep it hidden for a while. Cellphone was a tool as well.

Fortunatly, they also were part of what helped kill it

Hmph!!!

That's a great point. Talk about a very public exposure!

very, very public

See, that's the beauty of FB. You can block POSOW and she will never be able to see you. Even if by some off chance, you have a common friend, a blocked person can't see that. You've become incognito!

FB has some funny quirks though.

When PQ was one of Flicks 'friends' (yeah right ) , I could see her page, I assumed it was because she had set it to 'friends of friends" Even tho Flicks account has been deleted, I can still see her page. Mine is set to friends only so I assume she cannot see mine.

We have no other friends in common, so dont really understand why I can still see it.

Hmmm...maybe I didn't have my account set up right...I JUST deleted it...Today I had commented on something a girlfriend of mine said, and not two seconds later OM commented too...Freaked me out...I didn't think he was on there...Anyway, that is far too close for comfort for my tastes, so the account is toast...It was a "time suck" anyway...

Mrs. W

ETA: PM, I sent you a message just before I deleted it, but I'm not sure that you'll get it since I don't have an account anymore...

I don't care if she see me. If anything her head might blow up if she did.

Holy Cow Mrs. W.

I know...I went to high school with him, so we had some of the same friends back in the day...Facebook was a bad idea for me...I value Mr. W and our dd far too much to play with fire...

Mrs. W

I loves me sum suthun peaches!

At least we got to be FB pals for a few brief, shining moments. I checked FB for evil influences before settling in, and so far she has not shown up. At least she went to school 1/2 way across the country from either one of us, so there really aren't any mutual friends.

How awful for you!

Consequences I brought on myself of course... The great thing is that Mr. W wasn't negatively impacted by this - I asked...

Mrs. W

I don't have a FaceBook but my husband does. The girl who's obsessed with him also has it and they are both on each others' friends list. They don't chat on FB that often though. Mostly they were e-mailing each other on their Yahoo and G-mail accounts. I spoke to her mother recently. I hope that it ends soon. I will also talk to my husband again and ask him to remove her from his FaceBook friends list.

Yikes, Mrs W. I would delete mine too if that ever happened but that's never going to happen on my FB. For one, I went to an all girl private school, for two, no one I know would be anywhere near the OM, even my two old (girl) schoolfriends. I've just been looking at an MB member's gorgeous grandbabies on FB. (You know who you are lol). That's why I like it so much.

How could someone do that? Friend the OP? I just don't get it and I'm the FWW. I guess if you're foggy enough you think it's ok. :crosseyedcrazy:

ETA I use my FB as a warm and cozy place where I play scrabble and talk to dear friends and dear DD. I'd love to see the research on 9 out of 10 affairs start at work - because I'm sure that's what happens.

Slight T/J... Hey you... yes you, from EN, I've been worried about you. I'm so sorry! I hope you're doing ok. I haven't read all this thread, just found out about it from OH on EN and got to the point where you posted.

I hope you can figure out a safe way to post and get support here. Being able to talk to ppl, especially here on GQII, will be soooooooo much better than going through this alone.

And then the healing can begin. There are times when a one parent household is better than a toxic abusive sitch. *hugs* I wish you could talk more freely.... let us know if/when you can...

I don't know that much about FB, but is'nt the school you enter entire voluntary? In other words, if an OW knows what school your H went to, all she'd have to do is enter that school as her own, and then she'd be in the same circle of people, right?

Even without going to all that trouble, she could look for us by name.

I don't remember if he entered his high school or not, and no clue if she knows it. (It's in another county.) But at thie point, almost his sntire circle of friends is my family.

(Or "our family", as he calls them.)

Awww!

That's so sweet! (slight note of sarcasm) Methinks he lurves you......

BTW, Princess Meggy & Pep & I are having an affair! Or not.

We're just friends! I promise! I promise!

I got it Mrs. W. That really stinks. Grrrrr.

Exactly.

Jen dear, email me your FB name and I'll request you. That's the only way I friend people since the dreaded outing I got on a website-that-must-not-be-named-but-is-run-by-STOW.

>incognito

isn't that a former X-man?

KIDDING!

(someone might revoke my Marvel "friend" status)

You know...I love you?

I mean LOVE you for all of this and what you do and how you keep your hubby safe and your marriage safe...

Love you!

(in a total sister/friend way!)

Good! I'm glad you love her in a sister/friend way because you and I are already..... Well, you are my friend and it might lead to something.

Pre-vert

I said it lovingly...

(muah)

Alright Senora Grumpypants.

I am NOT Senora Grumpypants!

First of all - I am a Senorita!

Secondly - I am notGrumpy!

Thirdly - I am not refusing to care for a helpless animal!

Helpless?

HE'S POISONIOUS!

Okay, okay, Senorita Indignant!

;-P

Redvine, did you do this yet?

Oh, wise herpatologists, I know this is a lovely specimin and I know how much it means to you. I am unsure how to handle it and think that it would be best if I stepped back and let you care for this beautiful creature. I could never forgive myself if I should do something (like drop a rock or sheet of sharp glass across it's slender neck) and it be injured or killed. I really feel that it's care is not something I should be entrusted with. Why don't you move it into your office and that way it will be safe from me and my ineptitude.

Awww, thank you for saying that Kimmy! I love you too girly poo! You know, Mr. W is a very special hubby, he's easy to want to protect...I wouldn't take anything for our marriage...It's "da bomb dot com"!

Mrs. W

>Mr. W is a very special hubby

I got one of dem guys, myself, so I kwym!

Well, whadda ya know. Another Facebook affair right here on MB, with a wayward getting in touch with an old boyfriend.

Wife Having an Affair

Isn't Facebook great?

Ah, yes.

And if people would only use their BRAINS for good instead of evil, we'd never even have to have this discussion...

And our Dear Steve Harley would be in a different line o'work.

I'm sure it was all Facebook's fault. The choices of the people themselves had nothing to do with it.

Poor boundaries are poor boundaries, no matter what venue you put them into.

I agree with you, Dealan, people should be using their brains. However, they should use their brains in advance of temptation, not in the midst of it.

When they see the overwhelming evidence right here on MB of the dangers of social utilities like Facebook, people should think logically and say to themselves something like this: "It appears that affairs are an epidemic in places like Facebook. The smartest and wisest thing for me to do is to avoid places like that, so as to keep myself from temptation."

From what I've observed, when someone gets a message from an old flame on Facebook or email or whatever, often their emotions take over and their brains turn to mush. I learned that my wife cried when she got the first email from her ex-lover. For many people, memories, old feelings of affection, nostalgia, all come flooding back. That is a heady and dangerous chemical stew flooding the bloodstream. The brain is powerless to fight it once it takes over.

You can't trust your brain to make the right decision when you've wandered blindly into the path of temptation, because the heart is wicked and deceitful and it short-circuits the logic you might otherwise use.

That's why it's best to stay out of the path of temptation in the first place (like avoiding Facebook, for example), not try to fight it with your brain. That's usually a losing battle.

>The smartest and wisest thing for me to do is to avoid places like that, so as to keep myself from temptation."


Or put up necessary boundries so that temptations aren't there from the get go.

Dealan

Not arguing, just discussing...

To me, a protective boundary for the marriage is something you decide beforehand that you will or will not do.

For example: Refusing to ride alone in a car with the opposite sex is a boundary. A boundary isn't what you will or won't do when you get in the car with that person. A true and more effective boundary is refusing to ever get in the car in the first place.

I understand that many millions of people will use Facebook and never have an affair. And others will have an affair apart from Facebook. But given what I see on practically a daily basis right here on MB, I don't think it's worth the risk. I can live without it.

Alcoholics don't go into bars and liquor stores and then decide to fight the temptation to by a bottle. They never, ever go into a bar or liquor store again.

About 3 or so years ago, my firt boyfriend called me at work. The caller ID was blocked so I had no idea until I heard his voice who it was. I was completely caught off guard. My H was in the middle of his 2nd affair and I was a FWW. I KNEW what to do. I let him chat for a few minutes and then hit him square between the eyes. I told him My H was in the middle of an A with an old gf and to please not contact me again since we are both MARRIED.

It didn't take FB for him to find me. If you have weak boundaries, anything can open up an opportunity. We have a new poster having a one sided EA with her BIL. Both of my H's affairs began with a phone call. Mine was a work affair.

Educating yourself about adultery and creating boundaries is the way to protect your marriage.

OK, for FWS's, avoiding FB sounds like a reasonable EP. But I have a real problem with anyone - spouse, friend, associate or just somebody I know - behaving like this:

When a grown adult acts like this, there is something seriously wrong! If you find yourself in a position that your brain turns to mush from reading something on the internet, you need some serious help.

I would argue that if this statement applies to you:
then you have some serious character flaws.

And does somebody want to explain to me what infidelity is NOT a mental illness?

I agree! Facebook is good... when used responsibly! It's a stretch using this BRAND NEW POSTER to MB as an example of the evils of Facebook.

I personally have no qualms about using it and I would have no qualms about my DH using it either. We both know what we would do if an old flame contacted either one us.

In fact, it was because of Facebook that I found out Sunday that my sister was in a serious auto accident. I'm in Chicago and no one could get through on our cells at the time.

PM, so sorry about your sister. Is she ok?

FB can certainly be a fuse to ignite an A if the conditions are right (lack of boundries).

When used correctly and POJA'd FB is a fantastic resource.

It's kinda funny. I just don't see FB like this at all. No one who shouldn't has ever tried to get in touch with me, not one of my friends has even remotely made any sort of inappropiate approach. I take exception to the fact that because I'm an FWW I should be "more careful about FB". I'm not a moron.

My HS boyfriend re-found me long before FB or any networking sites even existed. FWIW another infidelity site I used to visit had a private message function and hoo boy, the number of people who have told me they were approached constantly by other members of the site (mostly BSs) inappropriately by PM.

ETA It would make far more sense to segregate men and women in the work force. (yes, I'm being sarcastic).

Jen - didja email me? I'll "friend" you when you do.

Kimmy, tell her how to get in touch w/ me....I wanna Kiwi friend, too.

Tabby1,

Can you not make your point without personal attacks? I'm tempted to treat your post the way it deserves - ignore it - but I think a few things need to be addressed.


I have a problem with it too. That's what my post was all about - avoiding situations which might lead one to behave that way.


You're right. Something is seriously wrong. That's why this site exists because there is something seriously wrong with an otherwise sane person turning into an alien and doing something so hideous as betraying their spouse. But it happens every day, doesn't it?


Oh, come on now. You know it's not from "reading something on the internet." I'm not talking about reading the news. I'm talking about seeing the affectionate or excited words of a lost love for whom you still have a love bank account lying dormant but still alive. It's the rush of emotions that happen to people when confronted with a former lover or a flirtatious text or FB message. I think around here we call it the "fog."

Read sickwithworry's post here I felt like I was on Fire! from this morning if you want to see how easy it is to slide down that slippery slope. This from a BS who knows better.


Actually, if you believe the Bible, which I do, it applies to every human that has ever lived, including you and me.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9

Even if you don't believe that, it definitely applies to most every WS you will read about on this forum. I'd say their hearts were wicked when they were falling for adulterous flirtations and raping their spouses.

You may think you are above behaving in the ways I've described. Perhaps you are stronger than most. May I suggest another warning from the Bible?

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12



Infidelity is not a mental illness. It is sin.

I won't give the wayward the option of blaming their sin on a mental illness for which they need "treatment."

What they need is honest confession, repentance and the making of restitution. Then a lifetime of rebuilding and keeping the trust of the spouse whose heart they broke.

Ot....obviously, someone has stepped on your toes or gotten into your mess.....

I think you are about the only one egging this argument on.

That's what I believe it's turned into...an argument.

Do y'all want to argue until you are blue in the face(s) or move on to a more constructive topic?

I agree. It have not been witness to anything inappropriate by any of my 200some friends on FB. Whether it be FB, Myspace, email, phone calls, texting, whathaveyou, if a person is interested in pursuing something, any medium will work. I don't see this being a FB issue, but a person/moral issue.

Well, I think it is constructive, probably because it's a pet peeve of mine. I truly believe these social networking sites are part of a trend that is dangerous to marriages. And I thought one of the primary reasons for this forum was discussing ways to avoid things that are dangerous to marriages.

But, yeah, you're right. I should have let it go a few posts ago. But Tabby1 did get "into my mess." I took the bait and tried to get the last word. It doesn't work in my marriage and it won't work here.

My apologies. I'll move along.

I like your posts.

Quite clear.

To me at least.

SWW