A very dear friend has encouraged me to come to all my old friends for help.<BR>Pray for me please.<BR>I seem to have fallen in a hole.<BR>It has been 8 months since the last known contact with Bimbo.<BR>I still can't say "recovery' out loud.<BR>No closure, no truths.<BR>Okay I keep trying.<P>H left on Easter Sunday to do a job 1/2 hour away from Bimbo. That is their turf. Never never land. He is 3 hours away from me.<P>I had wonderful intentions of healing. The job was supposed to last 5 days. He is still there. I am living the past. Deja vu. <P>He called tonight. Was supposedly going to be done today. NOT. Who knows when.<P>I hate being a failure but I am in a black hole and I need your prayers.<P>Sorry this is disjointed. I'm not doing very well tonight. Loveya all.

{{{{{{{{{<B>wasstubborn</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I'm praying for you...<BR>...I know you need it!<P> <P>Jim

Ah sweetie!<P>First of you, YOU are not a failure!! Stop that! You are one of the strongest, bravest woman I know.<P>I'm so sorry you are hurting. Wish I was there to give you a hug. <P>My prayers are with you. I'm going to light a candle right now for you!<P>Prayers and hugs,<P>Cheryl<P>

Some minutes, days or weeks are harder than others.<P>If you see the hole for what it is and have every expectation to crawl back out, if a bit better than not even seeing the pattern.<P>Hope you feel better. It is so hard, I know.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Wassy,<P>Prayers coming your way. You are not anything close to a failure and that comes from the village idiot!<P>Our minds play tricks on us. You don't want to know what goes through my mind! It scares me sometimes. I fell down the cellar steps when I was 3, broke the concrete. Boy, was my Dad mad! We often think the worst of a situation.<P>It may be that the job just took longer than anticipated. More work was needed. <P>Now is not the time to give up! We are all here to help you out of that hole.<P>Fight the good fight!<BR> <P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Wassi,<BR>I'll be praying for you....

Wassi- A prayer request from you is enough to bring me out of my little corner.<P>Please hold on. It could be all as innocent as it should be. Do not expect the worst. Give this to God and trust in Him.<P>God bless you.

Wish I could give you wise words of advice as you have done for me. But I can only say I will pray for you.<BR>Lora

Wassi,<P>I am praying sweetie. Hang on tight. Your going to make it. All of us are here for you.<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wassi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited May 08, 2000).]

Thank you all!!<BR>I can feel it. Don't give up on me.<BR>NSR<BR>Always there for everyone <BR>It means a lot to me. More than you could know.<P>ceecee<BR>Always makes me smile to see your name. <BR>Don't feel very strong right now but I'm glad you believe in me. <P>FHL<BR>Did you hear me thinking of you today?<BR>Needing your calm?<BR>Didn't you go on a holiday? <BR>You have a direct line upstairs - that I know! Forgiveness workbook? I'm remedial again.<P>Medic<BR>My favorite village idiot! <BR>You're right! My mind is playing horrible tricks! Tell me more stories.<BR>Yes the job is taking way too long. He is not happy about it. But temptation is there. If he was insane for so long.......<BR>Well it's a short trip back.<P>NoTrust<BR>I can always count on you too. <BR>I guess I needed to remember I'm not as alone as I thought.<BR>Thank you.<P>dreamer<BR>Dear friend.<BR>You heard me thinking of you too.<BR>I almost sent out an SOS to you yesterday<BR>Don't go so far away.<BR>How is your H?<P>Lora<BR>No advice needed. Prayers are what counts. And it is very special to me that you care! <BR>Thank you so much.<P>Samantha<BR>Dear friend, wise lady!<BR>I'm hangin' on!<BR>I need you all so much right now.<P>Feeling very much like I don't belong anywhere. like I should be so much faarther in this battle. Very sad.<BR>I feel the prayers. No better place to go for them.<P>I will be coherant in the morning. Knock on wood! It's just been so lonely, so long.<BR>I'm not sure what battle I'm fighting anymore. <P>Loveya all!!!! You are very special people!

Wassi,<BR>I'll swap prayers with ya .<BR>You pray for RAIN for me.... and I'll pray for you and your H. (And that you realize you are NOT a failure!)<BR>You are always in my thougths & prayers.<BR>Dawnetta<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

Wassi,<P>You are <B> NOT </B> a failure ! You are a normal human being human. Your world has been upside down for so long that it's a wonder you can say anything (say it ! say anything, there, see I knew you could , )<P>Of course you are unsure right now, any of us would be in your shoes ! Sheesh woman , what do you expect from yourself ? <P>I'll be praying for you, as for you, stop being so hard on yourself ok ?<P>Love you much Wassi !<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Hey you two <BR>Thanks for being there.<P>Butterfly<BR>I am praying for that rain for you. Is it there yet?<BR>If it came from here it would be snow. <BR>It's very dry here too my dear friend so no bonfires for me.<P>Deb<BR>You always know what to say! You know I guess I do expect too much of me. Maybe that's why the rest of my family does.<BR>I shouldn't even have to deal with this. <P>I wasn't very nice when he called last night.<BR>(Understatement of the year) I know he doesn't want to be there but that doesn't make it okay. It doesn't make it safe.<P>The big problem is that since Nov. when I first said the word "recovery" he has worked out of town almost constantly and we have put off working on this together.<BR>I'm tired. <BR>How do you live in the present when there isn't one? How do you make new memories when you're always alone waiting for tomorrow.<P>Thank you all for your prayers. I'm not crying this morning. That dear friend was right when she told me to post here. There are no better friends in the world!

dear, dear wassi:<P>DO NOT FEAR , FOR I AM WITH YOU; <BR>DO NOT ANXIOUSLY LOOK ABOUT YOU, <P>FOR I AM YOUR GOD, <P>I WILL STRENGTHEN YOU, <P>SURELY I WILL HELP YOU! <P>ISAIAH 41:10<P>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited February 15, 2000).]<P>This is my favorite verse for us betrayeds.<P>He is a God of miracles, see my post as alias "Liz Smith is..."<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{wassi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>and now, back to my lurking....<P>lizzie/pearl/lizpearl/POGP/alias<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited May 09, 2000).]

You know Wassi,<P>I've been praying for you and your husband. I don't have advice, except to keep your eyes open for miracles and interventions. I know the Lord is answering our prayers. I don't know HOW he will answer them, but he will. <P>Something good will come of this. Look for it. I don't know what - but something will. <P>Getting back on my knees for you.<BR>TNT <P>

Liz<BR>I saw your post and replied. What wonderful news!!!!!!!!<BR>Thank you for your words and prayers.<P>TNT<BR>I know you're there. You always are. <BR>Do you ever wish you had taken the easy way?<BR>I do for moments here and there.<BR>Some moments I wonder why I chose this fight. Guess I've been fighting it so long I just can't remember.<P>But Deb<BR>I can still say "anything". Just barely.<BR> <BR>

I took the easy way in my first marriage, and wasn't easy. I know from the sadness in my kids eyes (from the first marriage) that I cannot do this to "R". I know I must fight the good fight. And sometimes it feels unbearable. <P>But, I realize there are so many others futures dependent upon what choices I make. <P>Yes, sometimes it feels hopeless. BUT - the truth is - and this is something you really need to get into your soul - the TRUTH - is that it is NOT hopeless.<P>Wassi, you cannot look at circumstances to discover truth. Truth is far more deeper than this. Truth is ultimate - it is absolute. And, this world, and the "present" is sometimes very deceiving - you must get into your soul the real truth about life.<P>There are things happening around us - behind the scenes, building foundations - for the promises from the Lord. The promises are the real truth - everything else is masked. Go back to Positive Confessions again. Get it into your soul. Look for the ultimate truth and outcome, Wassi. It is there, you just don't see it.<P>Bimboland is a deceitful place - and has no permanence in the scheme of things - you know this. You know that sometimes bumps come into the road, devised to destroy the cart. But - the "road" isn't the only method of getting to the destination. The road sometimes is limiting - in our thinking. It is in the thinking that we have our biggest barriers. <P>Wassi, you need to change what you perceive as truth - you need to change to unchain your future. You need to change to realize that you are not limited - and the methods to your destination are much wider than you have imagined. <P>I am on my knees for you, Wassi. I care a great deal about you. <P>Hang in there, friend.<BR>TNT

Hi WS,<BR>Honey, I don't even have reason to think the word "recovery", but I still wouldn't want to trade places with you in your pain and uncertainty...my pain is, at least, mine and familiar.<P>My H "feels" like he is falling into the behavior patterns that meant he was having an affair. An affair that was supposed to be over in my case, 7 months ago (although contact was not that long ago), your H's 8 months. Like your H, mine has the opportunity, we don't live together, yours is out of town.<P>You've lived with this pattern so long that your response to his being "there" is/was ingrained through what amounted to "shock therapy". I talked to my counselor about this very thing last week. And, of course the answer is, don't worry about things you have no control over. "Do not worry about tommorrow for today has enough trouble of its own". (rough paraphrase from Jesus' lily of the valley parable.)<P>You did right in coming here for prayer support...because in God's hands is exactly where your H is. He can run, but he can't hide. One thing I keep forgetting is that God doesn't want us to "settle" for just being together as husband and wife. He wants our marriages to be as Jesus and the church. There may well be something God needs to work in your H's life to make the recovery sing. <P>And, WS, as perfect as you are , God will still need to do some spit-shining on your refined silver self. <P>You know I wish you the best.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

I'm listening ladies!<BR>Keep talking!<P>I need to do that right now. Listen to you and your wise words.<P>TNT<BR>My soul is so tired and that darn weight is back on it. You know that lump in your throat that won't go away? The 50 pounds on your chest? At least it's only 50 pounds. I remember when it was 500.<BR>Your prayers, wisdom and God are the ones I need now. I can't do this by myself. I really tried but I can't.<BR>Loveya always.<P>Lor<BR>Tell me more about your councelor if you can.<BR>I've discovered that the councelor from Pluto did more damage to me than I admitted.<BR>I think he can take credit for a good deal of where I am now. In that one hour session he planted so many doubts in my head. My sane mind knows he is a quack. But once those things are planted......<BR>One thing he said popped back in yesterday. I remember him telling me that My H was only being nice to me out of guilt and he would just start up again. Consciously I know the man is just a jerk looking for power but he planted that and other things. When I'm alone so much the subconcious and concious get confused with each other. Who my H is and who he was get all mixed too.<P>I'm going to go do some errands now to try to get out of this rut.<P>Keep talking. I'm listening.

WS - am back on my knees, praying those seeds that have rooted will be plucked out.<BR>TNT

Hi,<BR> I know how hard this is, the uncertainity, the not trusting, the guilt for not trusting,the painful memories the list goes on and on. I think you need to find out for sure what is going on there? You don't deserve this craziness! You need to find out if he is with her or if his job really is taking this long. you owe this to yourself and to him to if he really is being faithful.<P>Love,<P>Jill

Can you take a trip up to see him? Call him, or have him call you a bit more frequently. Make the opportunities for seeing her harder. Anyway prayers. It may be nothing, and you certainly have the strength to help him past temptation. Make the opportunities for plan A. <P>hugs...

(((((wassi)))))<BR>i know how you feel, and it is awful. i would be afraid to find the truth, but want it more than anything.<BR>you are in my thoughts,<BR>julie<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.go.to/wcu" TARGET=_blank>loveWASblind</A>

Ladies<BR>Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.<BR>I tried to reply earlier but the computer wasn't cooperating.<BR>he is apparently on his way home. Something odd in his voice but I guess I'm just oversensitive right now.<P>Jill<BR>You described the feelings perfectly.<BR>I guess I will always have this uncertainty as long as I don't have the closure. Too many years of "friendship" behind my back to be over it so soon. Especially since that door is wide open. <P>beth<BR>Thanks for the prayers and vote of confidence. I seem to be a little sapped in the strength department right now. You have all helped so much!<P>julie<BR>Is there any such thing as truth?<BR>Thanks! I know you understand.

My h is a fool. (we already knew that). <P>We went on vacation in February. He decided to drink adn the monster came out. He beat me up and I stood up for a change and called 911. He was arrested and spent 65 days in a Va jail while I came back to NY.<P>I went down to testify. He pled guilty. Now he is back in NY but not with me. I have an order of protection. He is working and trying to get himself together.<P>He was caught by me at the place where his "Friend" works. He said he was just talking to her to find a place to live. I told him that was one more promise that he made to me that he has broken. He didn't even defend her though when I called her every name I could think of. <P>Later, he said that it was no more than I saw and that he will avoid her in future. He ws apartment hunting at the time.<P>Anyway, he has a decision to make about alcohol and his intentions toward us.<P>I will try to stay closer. I miss you. God bless.

Keep the faith. It is almost like a test that big black hole that we keep slipping into. <P>We climb up, see alittle ray of light, and our footing fails.....we slip back down into the darkness.<P>I am there with you. It is difficult to tell yourself to keep climbing. I know how hard it is for me!!! The trust....or the lack of it....or the lack of faith in believing in the one person who was to treat that trust in a gentle,loving way....that is the heart of the issue. <P>I know for me, my H was one of probably only two men that I trusted. I trusted my H whole heartedly. In fact, I discounted many other men in my life, waiting till I was mature (32) to marry... I really looked for a person of integrity...an honest...etc. man...oh well!! you know the rest.<P>I truly understand your sadness. My H moved out 3 months ago. I think the situation with he and Op is dissipating, but I still wonder. tonight I called him after he was here to see the kids...My youngest wanted to talk to her daddy again. I called his apt. He didn't answer so I paged him. He called back immediately but when he said the phone didn't ring I didn't believe him.. I told him to hang up and I would call back. I did and he answered. It made me sad to realize, I might never be able to trust another again.

dreamer<BR>You sound so good. I mean it. You sound so confident. We have grown in a year haven't we? Just one of my yuck periods you had to pop in on. Don't go so far again. <BR>My E-mail is mmawilliams@hotmail.com. Keep that and don't disappear. I miss you too.<BR>Now your H. Yes he needs to get it together to deserve you. The alcohol has got to go. You know mine has the same problem but he just turns sleepy and stupid. Biting my tongue now.<P>tootrusting<BR>Thank you so much. I know you understand.<BR>I decided a long time ago that trust is not my goal. Safe is my goal.<BR>Did you watch Phil on Oprah?<BR>The one thing he said that really hit home with me went something like this:<P>Trust is not being niave but knowing that you can handle whatever your spouse does.<P>I think that is a more attainable goal don't you?

Dreamer does sound good, doesn't she... <P>Wassi, you sound better too. Been on my knees 3 times for you today, lady! I sure hope you can feel it! You are a very very special lady. Never forget that, okay? You are VERY VERY special. And cared about tremendously by many. God bless you.... You remember what bless means? 'to make happy'.<P>

Not a failure, you know. One of the strongest, wisest women I've known!<P>These things are tough. You've been through so many. I tend to agree with Connie - something good is going to come of this - I just feel it. Maybe just a little extra strength, just knowing you got past it. But something more, I feel.<P>He probably DID have a strange tone in his voice. It's a trigger for him, too, you know? And he will definitely pick up on YOUR insecurities right now. I don't know why, Wassi, my silly intuition I guess, but this one's gonna be ok. He's being the man you need him to be right now.<P>You'll pull yourself up, I know you will. You always do. And we're here loving you and holding out our hands to give you a boost!!! <P>Love you, Wassi.<P>Lori

Oh wassy, so sorry I am late!<P>I had two concerts at the school and was going crazy over here, didn't even check the forum.<P>I'm not sure what I can offer in terms of advice or comfort, everybody has been doing it so great!<P>All I can tell you is that the feeling is oh so familiar... Having to work away for so long is not easy, and to top it off with working in "that" place... well, let's just say I understand ( remember my anxiety even last year?).<P>On a positive note, bellieve me wassy, this year my H can go to Barrie anytime. I don't even worry ...it might remind me, but not in a painfull way anymore. More like a "I'm glad it's over and we were able to sail trough" kind of way.<P>So my friend... it's just one more little "jump", things are fine now, soon you'll be able to go trough this in a different way. Give it some more time.<P>Hugs, hugs and more hugs<BR>Kat

Good morning my friends!<P>TNT<BR>I felt it all day! I am much calmer now and I have no doubt that all your prayers are responsible. There certainly wasn't anywhere left inside of me that calmness could come from. <P>Lori<BR>I needed that boost. I'm afraid I will be needing it for a while yet. H and son arre leaving Sat. for a fishing trip. I will be alone again. I'm glad they are taking the fishing trip but you know what lonely can be like. Then when he comes back I know it will be another trip to Bimboland then a months work just a little farther from there.<BR>Speaking of intuition...did I ever tell you that the first time I replied to you on the forum I KNEW you were a winner? <P>Kat<BR>I know you understand. I wish I was as resilient as you. You are my hero. <BR>Lectures welcome.<P>H is home now. I am very withdrawn. While he was away I realized that he is rating a D- in rules for recovery. He would like to reap the benefits of my work but hasn't got the TIME to make me a priority.<BR>His job is such that he chooses which projects he does. Once he has committed to a project there is no turning back. During the affair and the courting period with Bimbo he was either not working or at a job that was only 4 days a week. He gave her time. He made her a priority. She was "now". I am "tomorrow". I will always be here, he can put off working on our marriage.<P>He is good and kind but he has not done any of the work in recovery. My Giver is spent.

Hi Wassi,<BR>It's all right to let the Giver take a break, but do be available in case he does want to give to you. Now, after my "break" (don't do what I did), my H says we both need to work on the marriage. I won't work alone, but I will meet him halfway. Before I was doing my work in the marriage and his work...and wondering why I was so bummed out. <P>I do get the feeling he wants me to go all out like I did for so long, but some days it is difficult enough to generate the will to want the marriage at all, much less work like a dog on it. I mainly avoid those LBs, I invite him to the house and sometimes out for a date, and I am genuinely glad to see his face when we're swapping kid duties.<P>I wish there was some switch we could flip for "his turn" and wire it into permanent "on" position .<P>Take care.

Lor<BR>You just got the biggest smile and chuckle out of me that has escaped in a week!<BR>A switch.<BR>Could we make it a control panel and wire it to turn several different things on? Like maybe the brain some days? <BR>You know what he asked me last night?<BR>"What do I need to do?"<BR>DUHHHH! Not like I haven't been pretty specific for how many months?<BR>I just asked him if he really had no idea what he needed to do. He said he knew.<BR>I don't think that classifies as progress.<P>So dear lady did we work too hard?<BR>Did we get anywhere?<BR>Yes a break is in order. <BR>Find a convent for us yet?<BR>

Maybe he was hoping your requirements/needs had changed? "Why, honeybabe, y'all don't need to to nuthin'!"<P>I don't know, I think his asking is a least an indication of awareness. Certainly that would have been a step forward SOMETIME.<P>Hmmm, a switch and a remote control, now that's the ticket!

Hello my dear Wassi -<P>I saw this and have been praying for you even though I didn't have time to post till now.....<P>Have you REALLY been listening....to us....to God's message to you? <P>Do you know that you are a very special and strong woman? Do you realize that these lonely times bring about all sorts of thoughts from cobwebbed corners of our brains? <P>We have two choices when this happens. We can withdraw and give way to the nasty cobwebs taking over the entire brain or we can break out our brooms and sweep them away......<P>Your H is home till Saturday....what are you going to do? He is not in your brain and doesn't know about those cobwebs.....he is just seeing withdrawal. Is that good? <P>Just like he is not in your brain - you are not in his. Perhaps he feels as unsafe as you? Perhaps he has that uneasiness bolstered by your withdrawal? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't like working so far from home for so long either...... maybe he was so looking forward to coming home.....<P>Are you showing him that you like when he is home? That you feel safe and he should also?<P>I know that you have learned that we can hold onto things or let them go if they are only part of the cobwebs. Complete closure is very elusive to most of us. Perhaps the step by step approach (yes, even though led by us!!) is the way to "safe".<P>Ok, that's the philosophical end of things to tell you.....<P>More practical measures - Pick your spirits up, Wassi!!! He's home!!! Show him that you are VERY GLAD that he is!!!<BR>Give fodder to his somewhat clueless "proactive marriage building" brain just what it is to behave like you actually ARE HAPPY to have each other around!!!!<P>Remember that we all tend to react to each other....there is always a certain amount of mirroring.....<P>Crack that mirror!!!!!<P>Forget those idiotic words of that person passing himself off as a counselor. We are better at it then he is remember? <P>Remember also, you're "taking back" trip that you made....was that only for you or was that to let go of the area in regards to both of you? Obviously it didn't cover completely when just H goes close to there.....how about going to stay with him there for a bit? Is that possible?<P>Take it back TOGETHER......<P>Just throwing out anything I can think of to you Wassi.....I love ya and don't like it when you are hurting so. Especially on things that are mainly from our own brains. You can decide to help yourself with this one. You really can. <P>You know what I notice a lot....we have this tendency to only think on how much our H's are not really doing to learn, rebuild, change behaviors or whatever when there are circumstances that scare us going on. We don't really give it too much dwelling time when they are close by and life is "normal".<P>Hmmm? What does this say? <P>BIG HUGS, PRAYERS and STRENGTH,<P>Sheba

Hey - you gals were posting as I prattled!!!!<P>I like the switch idea!!!! Remote is an excellent one too!!!<P>Wassi, he's open...just fill his head gently!!!!! Too much at once triggers the automatic shut-off mechanism!!!!<P>Tell him you need a hug...to start!!!<P>

Lor<BR>I think you're right. I think he's been hoping for a very long time that if he waits long enough the requirement needs will change to nothing.<BR>However I am at the end of my rope. I'm tired of being "tomorrow"<P>Sheba dear!<BR>Knew you were praying. Knew you'd be here.<BR>What you say makes perfect sense as usual. If I wasn't so tired I guess I could control the withdrawal. He knows why it's there. I've explained this to him. He knows the key to my door is at his disposal. There is another door that needs to be shut or this lock won't work. Yes I'm being stubborn. I tried the giver thing for a long time before it became exhausted.<P>I forgot a very important detail in the story.<BR>He came home for 1 day, 2 nights last week. I did all the things in your post above. I was ecstatic that he was home. I hugged and kissed and all that other stuff. I made his favorite meal. I was fabulous.<BR>He went to sign something at the bank 7 minutes away and I heard from him 3 hours later. This when we had limited time.<BR>He was sitting in a lounge with bimbo's friend.<BR>He came home. He reaped the rewards of my work and then buggered off to enjoy his other interests.<BR>That is why this homecoming was not as friendly. That is also a big part of the reason I was in the state I was in the other night.<BR>I think his control needs more than a remote. A major kickstart with a frying pan?<BR>

Hi Wassy,<P>Sorry you are having such a hard time. I will pray for you.<P>I just had a thought. Maybe do it to him. Say you are going to run an errand and leave. Not come back for three hours and say oh I am sorry I decided to go see a movie.<P>Tony would threaten to leave me and then runn of. Of course he would always come back a little latter and say he was sorry and did not mean it but come on. He would also hang up on me if we were talking on the phone and he did not get what he wanted.<P>So I did that to him. Boy did he not like that one bit. But he could not say anything because he did it to me. If he did start to protest I just said...ohh it is ok for you to do it to me but not me to you. There is no real rational reason to counter that. So now he does not do it.<P>Let you H know the consequences to his actions and then do exactly what you say you are going to do.<P>Just my thoughts.

Well Geeeeez Wassi!!!!<P>I would say that that was a VERY important part of the story to leave out!!!!!!! LOL!!!<P>OK....hmmm? Then forget what I said above and just beat 'im up!!!!<P>Sometimes they NEED to be dominated!!!<P>LOL!!!<P>Why are they such JERKS!!!! And why can't we act as "Jerkily" without a thought in our head and/or a care in the world?<P>Sex change? (ooops!! Sorry guys!! Just some nasties coming through!!)<P>Love ya Wassi,<P>Sheba

Paha<BR>Thanks! I use that tactic on occasion and may be doing it depending on the next 24 hours.<BR>How are ya? I tried to respond to your thread earlier this week but was not in a very good state of mind. Been thinking of you!<P>Sheba dear!<BR>Smack me too!<BR>I just talk so tough but here's my afternoon's version of withdrawal:<P>I asked H if he wanted to go to the garden center. We went, picked out flowers for my new flowerbed, stopped at the lounge for a few minutes on the way home. Then he insisted on getting me a dozen donuts.<P>I give up!<BR>When you do Plan A this long you are incapable of anything else. It's true!<BR>I cannot shut off even if I want to. I cannot close up even if I want to. It is the way I am now and there is no alternative in a relationship once you have learned what I have learned here.<P>You should have seen me. I found a package of my favorite Burgandy snap beans and I was like a kid in a candy shop. Now why would he bother to put any effort in when I'm that easy to please.<P>So much for my plan. <BR>Well I did learn something today. Dr. Harley's plan is a way of life. It is not a plan to end the affair or recover from it. It is a lifestyle. Seems I heard that somewhere.

Of course it is wassy , I've been telling this all along <P>It's what should always have been done but we never got the instructions booklet on time. But we can do it from now on.<BR>Funny thing is that if we think about it it's something that comes almost naturally to everybody, we just have so many things on our plate that there's a tendency to forget. <P>Anyway, glad you had a good time... carefull with those donoughts though - raving from a prednisone victim, that is gaining weight just from breathing , I'll be off at the end of the month finally! -.<P>Lecture will follow tonight - if I can keep my eyes open for that long - or tomorrow <BR>School concert number 2 over and done with. One more to come next week.<P>Hugs<BR>Kat

Yes Ma'am<BR>Now I remember where I heard it.<BR>I'll pay better attention next time.<BR> <BR>Am I forgiven?

Wassi -<P>You do make me laugh....<P>Smack me too, then!!!!<P>Yep, Plan A is definitely a way of life!!! <P>I also have questioned why H would have to do anything difficult when I am also so easily pleased!!!!<P>Still and all, I would rather be this way then someone who has to constantly be a challenge. I couldn't pretend to be for very long either.....could you? Nope, didn't think so!!!<P>They don't know how easy they have it - that's all there is to it Wassi!!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

WS....Buddy,<BR>Some more Food for thought, besides the doughnuts!<BR>Remember I was talking about writing things down for him that you need??? They say they know, but yet they forget? Well.... my H, can't remember what he was to get at the store, so I send him with a note. My H can't remember the Garbage night.....soooo, well that one didn't work, cause I take it out then.....forget that one!!! ......My H dosen't remember alot of things...so I write notes and put them on the floor infront of the fish tank. Soooooo... my point being....bottom line....write him a letter telling him what you need. MAKE COPIES incase he forgets what he did with it!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have taken such good care of them, given them advice, done their thinking for them, and now, they can't function.....and we wonder why? <BR>Just rambling here..........I vote for the frying pan! <P>AH<P>-------<BR>TIME :-)

Sheba<BR>I don't do very good pretending at anything.<BR>Maybe that's why I'm crazy.<P>AH<BR>Dear friend!<BR>You will help me write it down without lovebusters?<BR>I know what you are saying is what I need to do.<BR>Thank you!!!!!!<BR>And thank you for that card I got in my E-mail today.

WS:<P>I've been thinking that if I were as high maintenance as the XOW was, perhaps I would get what she got from my spouse-his jumping through hoops to please her, going to great lengths to be with her.<P>But then, on further examination, I realize he became weary of the XOW's demands and complaints, and came to appreciate my love for simple pleasures and the fact that burgundy beans could blow my dress up as well!<P>Keep on, WS. You're doing a grand.<P>Blessings and prayers<P>=^^= catnip

Hey catnip <BR>I was out all day so just saw your message.<BR>I think being high maintenance would be a pain wouldn't it?<BR>Not worth it at all.<BR>Bimbo was very high maintenance you know. She has lupus. She almost had to have her hands amputated. Kidney removed, the whole story. Yet she ran around the country sleeping with any man she could find and drinking. <BR>Such a sad story. Couldn't get a man to commit to her because they weren't willing to settle down with someone so ill.<BR> <P>I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets excited over the little pleasures like burgandy beans.

WS...thinking of you...I have my own little divet. I think my accident is catching up with me. Believe it or not yesterday I forgot my password to MB.<P>My gut, call it primal, reaction in times of crisis is not to trust anyone. How sad. I was never like that before. I guess it has some value, though. I wasn't living in reality before. <P>In a fallen world, no one but the good Lord himself is really trustworthy.<P>Vows and promises may be sincere when made, but how ridiculous for us to believe them when we are human.<P>On the other hand, I know my fidelity is true.<P>Of course we must press on. Some days it is just harder than others.

Hi Wassy,<P>Since I did that tactic on Tony he has not done it since. But then I think deep down he hates being proven that he is acting like a spoiled brat. That helps.<P>Oh to be a high maintenance chick. I think that would be nice for a day or two a year. : ) Too bad Tony is high maintenance. ; )<P>Wassy I am doing fine. Taking it one day at a time. I close on my house May 26th. Ugghhh if that does not kill me than the new job will finish me off. Tony is just going to have to take up and do the majority of the poroblem solving for a change. I need a break from the stress.<P>How are you holding up? Are things better?

FHL<BR>That is one of the saddest results of all of this. I know exactly what you are talking about with the trust thing. I'm not sure that it affects everyone but I am like you. I hate it. I go down the street on a normal day and am suspicious of perfect strangers with the "bimbo" look. <BR>This, my friend, is something we may have to examine. I know you don't want that feeling either.<P>Paha<BR>I'm going to go back and read your thread.<BR>you sound like you are taking some major control in your life. Good!<BR>I'm somewhat better now that H is home. I know there are things that need to be addressed though.<P>Take care!!

I like to be high maintenance, oh, every 3rd day and PMS time...and most Sundays, and you can count on Thursday...LOL. The rest of the time I'm just sweet as pie.<P>Really, I feel like there isn't much use in wanting anything, I'm not going to get it. Ohh. Grumpy today. More coffee.

Lor<BR>You make me laugh. <BR>I've been watching you give for over a year now. How could you be high maintenance?<P>Did you ever notice that most OWs don't have a clue how to give?<BR>I remember telling my H that I got really tired of giving and giving to him while he gave and gave to her and she just took!<BR>I guess I'll have a coffee with you. A little grumpy myself.<BR>

Hello again wasstuborn;<P>Thought I'd get back to you on this thread too, give my 1 1/2 cents worth (thats 2, less inflation).<P>It's just not OW that are often high maintainance, OP's are natoriously the same. My W's OM had her fly out to him at her expense, she bought the restaraunt meals, he lived in her condo while in town all amenities included and when he moved in with her he paid for 1/2 the groceries but no rent, no taxes nor upkeep on her unit (a condo that I'd paid for). He didn't look for a job and prided himself in being unemployed. He did pay for the hotel room for their trysts early in the affair. His excuse: his practice was doing badly and he was going bankrupt.<P>In my opinion all OPs are takers BIG TIME, emotionally and mentally constipated and morally bankrupt. They are all users. This is why over 80% of OP relationships don't last and the original partner starts to look a lot better. The time it takes for this to happen is variable and is a killer to the betrayed's mind, heart, soul and physical well being. <P>Patience is the answer but it's hard to maintain patience when you're up to your nose in the middle of a sewer lagoon with crocodiles biting at your privates!<P>Better days to come all, it's promised in the Good Book.

LooksGood<BR>Yep!<BR>This one I pegged as a user 7 years before she actually slept with my H.<BR>They aren't all that way but I'd bet on a good majority of them. <BR>So maybe our spouses need to give and we aren't very good at taking? I know that is often true here. <BR>My councelor from Pluto didn't agree with me on that one so I know it must be at least partially correct.