Happiness is....???? - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I know there are a few deep thinkers and philosopheres out there.....anyone want to "bite" on this thread?I never really thought much about this when I was younger, but "what" really makes people "Happy"? I don't even know if you can define "happiness". I remember two good quotes on the "quote" thread that was up a month or two ago...had two really good ones about happiness.Happiness can never be obtained at someone else's expense......and...."Happiness is not a result of 'getting something you want....but wanting what you already have."You know....I just never realized that I was really lacking "happiness" in my heart, until I met my friend and fell in love with her. Pure and simple...she made me feel soooooo happy when I talked to her...and "feeling that happy'.....is what led me to NOT put the breaks on this relationship. Think about it....why in the world do people do some of the things they do...other than the fact if makes them happy?! I guess different folks are motivated by different things. Money, fame, power...etc. I have discovered something about myself that I have wondered for years...and what is it that motivates me, internally? I think I know the answer to that now...it is the "feeling of happiness". I realize this is not very balanced and safe...but perhaps this self discovery will enable me to re-program some thinking and behavior and thought.Just wanted to throw this out....feeling low today...missing my friend. Her and I both know full well that it is highly irrational to believe that her and I are the key to each other's happiness. But nevertheless...it is a highly influential force that cannot be ignored.I know the bible teaches there is "pleasure in sin...but only for a season". Perhaps "pleasure" is confused with happiness"....which then leads me back to my original question.....WHAT...is "happiness"?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Happiness is not a result of 'getting something you want....but wanting what you already have."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Truer words were never spoken.NoMas, I'm going to give it to you straight. No punches. No "Oh, poor you, yes, it's so painful for you."NoMas, you are having a rollicking good time being miserable. Yes, you are. No, being miserable is not making you happy, but you sure as heck are getting a TON of gratification out of it. There's a difference.Maybe it's attention you crave. OW gave it to you, and the only reason you're able to stay away from her is because you come here and everyone commiserates with your pain. So you get it here.There's a wonderful scene in the movie ONE TRUE THING in which Meryl Streep is dying of cancer and trying to tell the Renee Zellweger character that she knows of her husband's affairs. It's just about that -- about CHOOSING to be happy with what you have. It doesn't just happen, you have to choose it.I think "happiness", like "love", is not a feeling. It's a state of being, it's a process, it's an "action."NoMas, the hole is inside your own psyche. The rush of your infatuation with OW makes you think she fills it. She doesn't. She's a band-aid, just as liquor or drugs or coffee or chocolate would be a band-aid.You know why you "feel" unhappy right now? Because you're looking at your life based on what you can't have (OW) instead of what you DO have.And you're doing a terrible disservice to your wife. There was a fellow here a while ago, "airheart." He did the same thing you're doing -- came here pining away over the OW for months on end.There comes a time, sir, when you have to sh*t or get off the pot. Either tell your wife what's going on, recommit to her and rebuild your marriage, or have the decency to cut her loose and let her have someone who'll love her.Because right now you can't even love yourself, how can you love her?[This message has been edited by Dazed and Confused (edited June 27, 2000).]

'Morning NoMas,Still wallowing I see. Well NoMas I do feel for ya, but Dazed and Confused hit the nail on the head.When are you going to get tired of feeling bad? I bet your wife is getting good and sick of it.Happiness...well NoMas, most of us are lucky to get a fleeting bit of it every now and then. Unfortunatley, life is not about being wonderfully, euporically (sp) happy every minute. Is this fair..hell no! We all have work, bills, problems with our kids, drudgery of day to day life. Who told you that your life would be one long happy feeling? They lied.But NoMas, you should have the proof by now that your present situation will NEVER make you happy. What is stopping you from getting this mess you've made straightened out? Think about life with OW, your children are shattered, you are paying child support up the butt, you get to see your kids maybe 4 days a week. Does that sound like a happy life? Believe me, your OW has plenty of faults too. She got involved with a MM...are you sure she would not do that again when you two are not blissfully happy?Yeah NoMas, your quote was right...it is wanting what you already have. We have no way to make this happen for you. I think if you look at your options you will see that your best shot at happiness is making what you have honest and giving it a chance.Update us NoMas. If you're any closer to talking to your wife...we can help you. If not, that's OK too, but to not do it because you're afraid of loosing both of them is not going to help you.allison

Wow, D&CI would agree with the quote about being happy with what you have with one CAVIAT:You create happiness with what you have.You look at all the resources you have at your disposal (this is good 'cause I'm talking to myself too) and you decide what you can do with it.For all the centuries except for this one, most people lived wandering where their next meal was coming from. This is no exaggeration! There was no central air, free time, extra money, etc.What if you took some of that extra time and money and really TRIED to build something with your w? It takes a lot of single minded dedication (which you have not showed yet), but it just might be the road to happiness.As I said, this was good for me. Been focusing on the negative too much lately. I AM working on building a happy marriage!------------------ Cindy

Hi NoMas,I'm going to quote something I read the other day in hopes it will plant a seed in your mind regarding your quest for the illusive "happiness" you're seeking. It helped me understand my H better (WS).People risk everything on the hope that they can achieve joy by changing everything in their lives except themselves. They would like to press a button and have the old life go away and the new life appear (NoMas & OW). The human animal has an unfortunate tendency to identfy the source of any unhappiness as coming from outside itself. The fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves. Our unhappiness is not in our marriages, but within us. Changing everything about our lives (NoMas & OW) leaves everything important still the same, because we are the important factor in our lives, and we are the one thing left unchanged.If you are unhappy NoMas, it is within you, not the circumstances/people outside of you.Jo

Nomas Most of the people here would really like to help you. I'm not sure if you want to listen until someone says what you want to hear. Sorry! That's not me either.I will answer your question though. To me happiness is:What happens to you when you stop living inside yourself. It happens when you care about putting a smile on someone else's face. Even the grocery store clerk. When you see someone having a bad day and you want to make them smile. When you let a pedestrian cross the street when they've been waiting for anybody to stop...and they smile back at you and wave. It happens when you are too busy thinking about those random acts of kindness that you can do unto others instead of dwelling on what you want.It happens when you have self respect and you like the person you are.You want to be happy? Do something for somone else. And I don't mean the OW!

I agree wholeheartedly with this <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It happens when you have self respect and you like the person you are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The situation with the OW is not making you happy. In fact, it's causing you quite a bit of pain.I think you are confusing the feeling you have with the OW with the feeling of happiness. It is not happiness. It's something else. I think you feel loved with her. You feel attended to and cared for with her. Those feelings can lead to happiness if you do not lose your self-respect in attaining them. And you can feel loved by your wife if you give her a chance. She can attend to you and care for you if you give her a chance. And you will gain your self-respect back.That sounds like the road to happiness to me. Give it a try, NoMas.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Happiness is not a result of getting something you want....but wanting what you already have." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is such a wonderful quote!!! NoMas, I personally can understand what you're meaning by this "happiness" thing. I felt that way about the OP, too. He made me "feel so happy". That's the key--it was a "feeling". I grinned from ear to ear when I talked to him and when I was w/him. I felt so good inside, like I truly was happy. But, NoMas, it was exactly that, just a feeling. And if I were to have ended up w/him, I'm sure I'd have eventually been looking for that "happiness" again. It's allowing someone else to fill (or bandage, as D&C said) your needs and desires, instead of finding that happiness w/in yourself and w/God. No one can MAKE you happy, you have to do it for yourself. You have to be happy w/YOU before you can be happy w/anyone else (true happiness anyway). This reminds me of something my Mom told me when I was going through all the problems w/my H and my affair, etc. I told her that I didn't feel happy w/my H and OM made me so happy. Also that I didn't feel like I was "in love" w/my H. She told me, "You're not always going to "feel in love". There have been many times when I haven't felt "happy" w/Dad (my step-dad). But true love is about taking the good w/the bad and handling the ups and downs." She had more good advice, but I can't remember all the exact words. What we all are looking for is joy instead of happiness. Joy is something you have inside that surpasses happiness. I don't consider joy a "feeling". I think it's a state. I'm not quite explaining what I mean, but hopefully you know what I mean.Happiness is what you make to be. You have to choose to be happy. You honestly have to make a conscious decision that you are going to be happy, at peace, in a good mood, pleasant, etc, in order to do so. I don't know if you've read any of my posts about how I have to adjust my attitude, but that is what it's all about. I'll have to find the post, but what I said is that I literally looked at myself in the mirror and told myself I could continue to pity myself or I could move on and be grateful for what I have. I often have to give myself those "attitude adjustments", and here lately I've been getting better at doing that! NoMas, you honestly have to do that. I know the pain you're in, I've literally been there. If you read my posts, you'll know. But NoMas, we can choose to be in pain, or we can choose to get out of it. The latter takes a lot more work, but it can be done. I know it hurts like h***, but if you got to get through it to get over it.I hope I'm helping you. I'm trying to encourage you to get through this. Hang in there! Keep posting so we can give you advice. I know some replies are harsh, but they are true no matter how much they sting![This message has been edited by momma (edited June 27, 2000).]

Jo,Thanks for quoting that. That explains my h too. I've always believed if I'm unhappy, it's me that needs fixing.NoMas, yes there is pleasure in sin for a season, but one day we will have to give account for every idle word.I thought you were smarter than this, or is it the fog talking? If anyone has earned the right to build a fire around you, I think I have.You see, I KNEW I was not fulfilled in my marriage. I watched myself to not allow an opportunity for an OM. I knew I was vulnerable. My h was so focused on himself and his career.On top of that I had to deal with the pain of waking up and learning he wasn't the man I believed he was. That he could go seek out this young girl overseas to sleep with on his trips! It was his way of searching for happiness.I started back behind square one. He didn't feel in-love with me and I didn't feel much for him. Our love banks were in the red!But Harley seemed to have defined principles that had the ring of truth. We decided to change our lives, start living by these rules.I started to WORK to meet his needs, to make him happy. There were no guarantees it would come back to me. Still are no guarantees.But I think you know all this. It comes down to a choice, either:YOU WILL OR YOU WON'T ------------------ Cindy

I think Momma made some excellent points (a wise woman at her tender young age!). She said there is a difference between happiness and joy:"What we all are looking for is joy instead of happiness. Joy is something you have inside that surpasses happiness. I don't consider joy a "feeling". I think it's a state".I think that distinction is important. It is kind of hard to grasp the concept, but for me "joy" is something that I have/experience, independent of my circumstances. Happiness (or rather happy feelings) is something that is temporary and often directly related to my circumstances (such as when we have a real fun day or activity or are with a person who brings those "feelings" out in us). If we try to grasp for happiness we will always be frustrated because it is dependent on outside factors that we can't always control, and also doesn't last.Several years ago, when I was frustrated that I never seemed to be very happy, I decided to do a (Bible) study on "joy". What surprised me was that in the majority of verses I looked at, joy was accompanied by thankfulness - that is where joy came from. That kind of supports some of the quotes that have already been mentioned here. And it does imply an "attitude adjustment" - change in thinking.With all that in mind, I think we do oversimplify when we say it is ALL inside ourselves and if we straighten that out we will be happy. Life has many hardships, people do disappoint, pain is inevitable. So, while we may not be able to be "happy" due to circumstances, we can know joy - a more deep-seated "state" (for lack of a better word) - and that is, in my experience, more satisfying. Also, remember it is a fruit of the Spirit.NoMas, I don't judge you for asking the questions. Just sometimes there aren't any easy answers. Remember God gives us what we have always been asking for - we just don't always recognize it at first.

NoMas, You have gotton some great replies. I'm going to print them off and save them, either for my H when he realizes it is he who is making himself unhappy, or my children, to help me parent them better.I am also wondering about the first OW that made you come to this board....where you found this OW...didn't the first OW give you the same feeling....of happiness???????Sometimes I wonder if you are my H...I think that's why I am drawn to your posts....but he thinks this is a cult.....

Nomas:You know I usually avoid responding to these threads where betrayers are dealing with getting over OP because I feel I probably don't have enough empathy right now to be of any help to them. But I do read them because it helps a little to understand how they feel.So much of what is written on these thread reminds me of being a teenager..madly in love, lost in the wonder of that special person who brought us so much "happiness". But you know a month or two later something might happen and you'd meet someone else and fall madly in love again. All of these relationships brought us happiness but that wasn't enough, until we grew up and realized that a real relationship required commitment in the face of disappointment and giving in spite of not always getting in return.Some people have a hard time with moving on to real commitment...chugging through work, kids, disappointments, and life's other stresses...and underneath there's still that young kid who wants his happiness without all the hassle...and so he wants to move on..to find "real" happiness.You have a commitment now, whether you like it or not, your job is to continue to commit to that relationship until "both" of you feel that it has no bond anymore. And if that is really the case, then you can move on to a new relationship without regret. You owe your wife the right to have a part in deciding if the marriage is over, you can't decide between you and OW based on the momentary "happiness" you feel with OW.I know this denial of "happiness" is hurtful to you and maybe you could be deliriously happy with OW. But is it worth the cost...your marriage, your children, your integrity, your family...all for what could be a fleeting moment of "happiness". God doesn't always give you what you want, but he gives you what you need. Trust that it is for the best. Buffy[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 27, 2000).]

NoMas,Let's look at what happiness is not. It is not living a life contrary to your morals, values and beliefs. You are betraying your own integrity.I think you are confusing happiness for some kind of chemical reaction in your brain that signals euphoria. If this is your label for happiness, you need to get a fix with one new relationship after another, or keep your relationships seperate from real life.I think true happiness is found in living a life worthy of your particular calling. A life that gives as much as it takes, a life that pursues dreams while making the most of our unique individual gifts. A life that gains stength through adverisity and prizes wisdom and kindness, integrity and honor.

Wow, Sifted and Buffy! You two are both right on key! I totally agree with both of you!Sifted, You always seem to say perfectly what I'm trying to "spit out"! Thanks! That's exactly what I meant about joy!

On the "throwing in the towel" thread there is a definition of happiness "The Bluebird of Happiness" which is worth looking at. It makes the distinction between happiness and joy. See the post from heartache.

Yes, I agree Momma.Buffy definately has the gift of articulating her thoughts very clearly. Whenever I see she's posted, I pay special attention to her words, I consider her one of the heavy hitters on this board.The circumstances that brought us here are unfortunate however, we're blessed with the presence of many caring and special people here on the board.Jo

NoMas: What a question! If anything I have learned in all my years of turmoil is that happiness comes from you. It comes from within. NO ONE can "make" you happy. If that is what you think, your expectations may be crushed when that other individual doesn't follow through. Believe me. I have put my faith in others especially my spouse to "make" me happy and much to my surprise it has been a great letdown. I was the one who was not happy and was expecting him to give me that happiness. That is an unrealistic expectation from him or anyone else for that matter. Someone referred to the OP as the BandAid effect. That rings true somewhat. Your OW can only remedy your sadness, confusion or whatever ills you're feeling temporarily, but only you can remedy it permanently. You know what ails you and you need to clear that up first before you start the road toward healing and happiness. It's tough! I have been working on it for the past 3 years. I have been working on myself to find out how I can find happiness within myself. I plant flowers, ride my motorcycle, run, read, spend time with my kids and grandkids and working on getting along with my spouse. I do the things that contribute to my well being, but I have to decide what I want my happiness to be. Not "who" or "what material item" can "make" me happy. Does this make sense to you? The saying "you complete me" doesn't work with me. I complete me, you just compliment my existing happiness. NoMas: I hope this does not sound like a scolding or anything of that nature. I am only speaking from my experiences and mishaps. If I can help someone else from going through the emotional pain that I have experienced, then I hopefully helped someone get closer toward wellness instead of destruction. Much luck to you and your quest to find happiness. You might look at yourself in the mirror and see if the person staring back can help you.

.[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited June 27, 2000).]

Gosh....what in the world was this all about? Maybe I need to re-read what I posted to begin with. OH....I see. “Happiness....is telling NoMas what his problem is” :-)Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought all I asked for was some thoughts on how you all would define “happiness”. I don’t think I asked for an assault on my personal struggles or asked what I needed to do.I thought I made it clear that some encouraging progress was being made in my own heart as to how I viewed some things. I listed two very good quotes that held a lot of truth. I admitted that I knew it was irrational to think that some other person could be a key to my happiness. For that matter, I think it is wrong to expect my own wife, or kids, or job, or anything......outside of my self...to be a source of happiness. I would like to think that “happiness” is something that can be obtained regardless of the external circumstances that surround someone's life.Let’s be honest...there are multitudes of.....unhappy people today. And they would love to find the answer to what could make them happy. Many of them are here on these boards. Many of them are...in marriages....where there has been no betrayal or infidelity or abuse. There are multitudes of people today...who are financially stable...healthy....and go to church every Sunday...and are still not happy.I was just wanting to create some healthy dialogue here with this topic. Yes...there really some very good things posted here which I would whole-heartedly agree with. I also agree that happiness has a lot to do with what we are ‘giving’ and not ‘getting’. Hence, the verse that refers that it is “more blessed to give than to receive”.I even admitted the possibility of confusing short term pleasure with happiness. I understand the “euphoric chemical” sensations that can be triggered by various circumstances. For some reason, I must have not clarified myself very well. I just have been in this ‘season’ of life....where so much of the mundane, day-to-day...life...caught up with me. I didn’t realize how ‘dead’ inside I was. I have just read Conway’s book: “Men in Midlife Crisis” It is describing me to a tee! I am sincerely trying to refocus my life and mind back to where it needs to be. The fact that I have betrayed my wife...polluted my integrity.....and fallen so far...from where I used to be, does not make the climb back any easier.Dazed and wasstubborn....I would like to ask you this.... What is it that you think I am “wanting to hear”? I have to disagree with you....I am not here for attention. I apologize if my posts ‘rub you’ the wrong way. Again....please go back and read what I started here....I just wanted some input on how others would define happiness. You certainly exercised your right to voice your opinions. But I am puzzled by the 'attitude" that they were wrapped up in...especially since I was not asking for that kind of input.Yes...I did admit there is still much pain inside of me. I am in withdrawal. Obviously, I need to keep that to myself. I have often thought that some people can wear out their welcome here on the boards. Perhaps my time has come.Others....I have witnessed over time, sensed a need to ‘rest’ from these boards. I too, will follow suit. Take care,NoMas

Hey NoMas,Hope you're still around to read this. You're ticked huh? Well you came to the right place to vent. I guess if a newbie came in and asked the happiness question you asked he would have gotten a lot different replies than you did. We kinda know you NoMas, and know where you are in your life right now, so we...right or wrong...answered your question with preconceived knowledge.No one here means to make you feel painted into a corner, and I can see how you're beginning to feel that way. My husband could not have told me about his infidelity until he was good and ready. Yes, I had enough evidence to nail him...and I did, but still, he was ready. It could not-would not have happened until that night. For many reasons, partially because I was ready to hear it.I have read the Jim Conway book Men in Midlife. It's a great book about mid life crisis, really touches all the bases. Let me say, good for you for reading it. It's certainly more than my husband has done even though I left the darn book in the bathroom for months!We here need to give you the time and space we have so lovingly tried to give our own WS. You have your own time schedule here. I am guilty of not recognizing that and I'm sorry. Only you can decide when the right time is for you. I guess maybe I felt like I could help you and/or your wife with the pain that you are in. I was wrong.Please don't leave us NoMas.

NoMas, you have definitely taken quite a lot of lashings, not only on this post but on others also. Often I have flinched while I have read them. I guess some betrayed are hurting so bad, they vicariously take it out on any betrayer who sticks his neck out enough to be transparent and open his whole heart.Even when you've been asked "how are you, NoMas"? - you've often ended up tarred and feathered. Guess the answer has to fit a certain mold - if not, advice is given in torrents, whether asked for or not, and in total disregard for any ("inappropriate") feelings. It seems betrayers are only allowed a certain range of feelings - most especially remorse and guilt (welcomed here), but woe to the poor betrayer who really opens his heart and shows ALL the feelings inside. Any feelings of sadness or pain associated with the loss of an OP are immediately pounced upon and an attempt is made to snuff them out - with the "good" intentions of helping, of course.For these reasons I have not been so willing to share as fully as you have. A betrayer just needs a place to share sometimes, too. Advice isn't always requested. Withdrawal hurts!!!I understand the conflict you have inside. I also have all confidence that you are on the right path. It is a journey - your journey, no one else's. Truly sorry for all your pain. You will make it.{{{{{{{{{{NoMas}}}}}}}}}}}} [This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 27, 2000).]

Okay, you are right, we didn't reply in dialogue about "happiness", instead we replied to you - in your situation.I'm sorry.Going back to edit my post.Next time, please say something like, "I do not want you to discuss my personal life, I only want to talk about what happiness means to you."Don't go away, just get better at asking for exactly what you want from us, we will surely try and be respectful, okay?TnT

NoMas....wait....wait!!!I just got here......surely you could use another betrayed's point of view...GULP!!!But seriously, hold on and let me catch up.....what a day!!! Work had no air and it was absolutely stifling - I'm talking SWEAT droplets bigtime!!! Just before leaving, here comes a big storm - lightning, thunder, gale force winds....Out to the car, rain feels good but hurts (blowing so hard!!) - guess what I see? A tree limb had fallen right on the hood of my car!!!! Wonderful!!! It was a big one, too!!! Luckily just some scratches and a couple of little dents!! Can't even notice it on my clunker!! lol!!!!!I pulled it off and by this time am completely soaked.....Happiness was cooling off from the "sweat shop" day!!On to the store....gotta get milk, cigs, etc.....leaving the parking lot, I'll be darned if I didn't get to see lightning strike a tree and send part of it crashing down.....right across the exit lane to get out of the plaza!!There were two cars in front of me...an old woman in the first (scared cuz the tree almost fell on her) and a twentysomething male in the next...I paused and observed the male throwing a temper tantrum (pounding the dash, screaming obscenities, gesturing) and trying to move his car to go another way.....What an idiot!!!So here I go....out in the rain, past "idiot boy" - calmed the old lady and proceeded to move the darn limb out of the way!!!! Yes, by myself and it was heavy, too!!!!!The lady wanted to give me money!!! LOL.....they are so cute!!!! I told her to have a nice evening...walked by "temper tantrum man" and told him to have a nice evening, too....with a big smile!!!!!That was Happiness!!!!!!! Anyway, I write this about my pathetic little life because there is no "definition" of happiness!! It is simply feeling good at a moment....You are so right when you say that so many people are searching for it...so many seem to have the "things" that others think would be their "happiness" but neither the owner of the "things" now the envier of them experience lasting happiness.....why? Because happiness is not that "thing" or that "person" or that "thrill" that most people define it as.....Happiness is any high within a low....For instance.....you may love your children, but they are not easy and happiness enducing all the time....it's a struggle, right? So they are not classified as "happiness" although if you ask most parents they say that their children bring them the most happiness or joy.....That's not true!!! Not in the sense that you are looking for happiness to be defined.Parents surely have times when those children fill them with happiness...a first step, saying Daddy or Mommy for the first time....when they snuggle and make you feel content and needed.....That is the happiness part....So perhaps happiness is when a person feels content and necessary despite all the craziness or ruts of life.People more and more these days are searching for anything to make them feel special....why? Because they are shown by societal BS that the individual's self-fulfillment is the road to happiness....they are shown that idolization and thrilling pleasures are what to strife for.....I think that the old ways are better... A person's fulfillment (happiness) dealt with the heart.....Being a good person, having a spiritual direction and purpose for what life is truly about and a strong sense of family, friendship and community is a person's recipe for happiness!!!Hope this addresses your intentions with the question.....More specific...Happiness is seen in brief but frequent "moments" and truly felt when you are self-content with the person you want to be and are on the right path to becoming.Everything else is a mirage...I am serious....take my life for example. It sucks!!! But you know, I am happy!!! Not with what is going on around me, but with my handling of it!!! I am content with myself. By my working through the rough stuff in the correct way, I will once again have more and more of those "frequent moments" when I can really see and revel in the happiness.BIG HUGS,Sheba [This message has been edited by Sheba (edited June 27, 2000).]

Happiness for me is.........................having a roof over my headhaving 4 healthy childrenbeing healthy myselfmy H being healthyhaving a H that works at every opportunity to provide for his familyhaving my cat to snuggle with when i just need a quiet companionhaving all 4 of my parents plus the in-laws still livingknowing that one day a "good" and "genuine" friend will find memost of all I think Happiness would be knowing that I have truly given my all in this life!------------------ *heartache* "Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"

NoMas,I am sorry if my post was one that responded more to your situation than to the question you asked. I, of all people, should have been more sensitive, since I have been in a similar position of asking a question for some info and feeling like I was being lectured instead of getting the input I asked for. I guess I thought I was truly being helpful.Happiness is something that I, for some reason or another, will not let myself feel. I have many things to be thankful for, but instead I feel sad. Somewhere along the way I decided I didn't deserve to have the things I've worked so hard all my life for. Somewhere along the way I decided that I simply wasn't worthy. And now I'm trying to figure out why and how I can convince myself that I DO deserve the things I worked for, that I AM worthy, that it's OK for me to be happy. I have dug quite a nice rut for myself and as painful as it is to be here, I'm afraid to leave. Because I KNOW this rut. It's home to me.Someday I will allow myself to be happy. And when that day comes I'll let you know what it is.[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited June 27, 2000).]

What Sheba said!!! I'll follow you anywhere...and now I know how you've managed to do Plan a for so long...You are happy... I am not obviously, or I would not be so obsessed with what my H has "dared" to change intoBut you said something that struck me...and I actually brought it up in another thread.CHildren...I have 3...and yes....they do take work...mine in particular are squeaky wheels (except for son who is reserved like his dad...) IN fact...my D's are having a sleep over and they have an art's camp tomorrow and it's 11 pm and I'm still fighting with them to go to sleep and I begin to lose my temper...and wag my index finger....and in the end they are all quiet...and I go in and kiss them all....and walk downstairs and think....I am weary...it is late.....it is hard to take care of kids....I love them....unconditionally...I love them even though they do not live up to my "standards" I love them even though they they are a lot of work...I love them even though we don't meet each others needs all of the time.. They make me happy, they make me mad...I love them anyway....I am thankful... for them (and my H) so I am full of joy!!!!

NoMas,I don't know you as some around here, and you don't know me... I wrote this BEFORE reading the post & replies so I wouldn't be "contaminated". In your case you are the betrayer, in my case I am the betrayed; you see? the prospective cannot be more different, for perhaps (just perhaps) the word "forgiveness" may be both in your and my definition of "happiness" but it would have a totally different meaning. To me happiness is:To be together with no need for words, holding hands while walking down the beach barefoot, a knowing smile, knowing that everything you do has a meaning and that what you do is only half of what the other half of your team is doing, it is being madly in love for 17 years... over and over for more than 6,000 days, every day.It is to grow older together looking back and smiling at both success and error, triumph and failure.It is forgiveness, it is growth, it is achieving what you want how you want it when you want it in total harmony, without harm to anyone and in perfect manner.And yet... happiness may be a dream from which one day or night you may wake up to true life (that happens to be total unhappiness)So what is happiness after all?Alex [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ Live fully and always learn

Sorry Nomas, but if you meant your question to illicit some general comments on the nature of happiness, then maybe you should not have related your question to your person situation. I afraid that invited the barrage of lectures. Now you can see why it is not a good idea for the betrayed to comment on the problems of the betrayers. That's why I usually just lurk on your threads. Maybe they should consider giving Betrayers their own general topic. Together you might come up with some solutions that would benefit all. Separation withdrawal from OP is certainly a difficult issue in a lot of marriages in recovery.If my reply appeared directed at you personally, it was not meant so. *******************Now as to the general nature of happiness. What is it? Well, to me happiness is:...to love and to be loved [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...doing work that we love even if we don't get paid for doing it [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...being content with who you are and what you are [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...smiles on faces that you helped to put there [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...tears when joy can't be contained [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...feeling the glory of a sunset, the grandure of a mountain, the endless cradle of the sea, the vastness of the universe or the smallness of a man [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...bringing forth new life and helping it to flower [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...snuggling in a warm bed on a cold night [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...anything that makes us feel part of a greater whole [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...so many individual things that they can't be counted [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

;...so different for everyone and yet the same [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]; ...the thing that makes it all the pain worthwhile and endurable [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img];...earned not given [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img];...sometimes not recognized until it's lost [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img];...a state of mind [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img];...God's little gift to us that we share with others [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img];...something we think is just around the corner when really it's in our own backyard, in the sky, in a baby's smile, in ourselves, in everything all around us, in just being alive and part of it all [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img];...something I wish I could give everyone just a little bit more of. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Buffy [This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 28, 2000).]

NoMas: My apologies if I came on too strong, but I will have to agree with one other poster. The way you associated the question with what was going on in your life may have confused some folks as to what exactly you were asking. Next, you know me, I would never bash anyone. I am the last person who would ever consider stoning others. My concern is to help others help themselves. The pain I go through is enormous at times to the point that I wonder how I am still living. But I am here. I use my experiences to help not hinder. So don't ever take what I say as bashing or downgrading or anything of the sort. Consider this---Happiness to me is a warm sunny day on the beach. What's happiness to you? Open ended question to doors of a variety of answers. You'll always get those folks who take their answers to the far side of the moon, but hopefully it keeps your situation out of the picture of advice and criticism. Good luck to you.

Nomas, You mentioned approaching "Happiness" from a philisophical aspect. In our culture happiness is what we all strive for. Isn't that we are guaranteed by our constitution? We have been wired by our society to think that happiness is attainable and that everyone deserves it. Not so. Other societies don't even have a happiness concept. Biblically we are to toil on this earth. Life is hard. When we accept this fact hardships become much easier to handle.

Tender Heart - you hit it on the nail.The American culture (individualistic contrary to other cultures, and perhaps maybe even contrary to some biblical principles) says "We have the right to live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....."I have always believed that you can create areas of happiness, even in the worst circumstrance. But, to me, creating what is good, dwelling on what is good, etc - is the goal, not happiness. Happiness to me is a byproduct.Here is an article from our local newspaper, for me, this is something that makes me happy. (I'm sure it didn't make EVERYONE happy, though....) The happiness is a byproduct, for me. It is a project that I worked towards. It was awesome. It was empowering. It made me feel happy, because I felt it was successful for lots of people. It was restorative, It was good. It ended up creating happiness for me. SOMETHING THAT CAUSED HAPPINESS WITHIN ME:XXXXXX - In XXX Park Saturday, Bosnians sold coffee and gave away samples of spicy chicken, bagpipers in kilts piped, the local "Band of Faith" played national anthems from Germany, France, England and Bosnia, and Mexican girls in colorful dresses and boys in sombreros clapped their hands and shook maracas in rhythm. Across the pond in XXX Park, XXX displayed her hand-painted Ukrainian eggs and XXX demonstrated his hand-carved, animated wood toys and ate a large turkey drumstick while his wife engaged passers-by in conversation. She calls herself a "newcomer" to XXX - she moved here in the '60s. She talked enthusiastically about the cultural diversity of the little town."I think it's wonderful," she said, adding that she "collects" people from other countries.The bridge connecting the two parks was decorated with flags from dozens of countries, protruding from the bridge like outstretched arms. People milled across the bridge, chattering in English, Spanish, Bosnian, Somali. An observer from XXX(larger metro area) remarked in amazement that it was just like the city - only smaller.XXX (Cultural activity) brought the cultures in this little town together - though, with a few exceptions, they remained somewhat segregated as they ate or watched the entertainment, a reminder that linguistic and cultural barriers still exist and that the community has its work cut out for it.Nevertheless, State Sen. XXX and Rep. XXX complimented the town on its efforts at the noon flag-raising. XXX said he told the Legislature if they wanted to see a good example of a small town dealing with cultural diversity, they had better come to XXX.Rep. XXX said the town was living out Jesus' command to "Love thy neighbor as thyself."Later that afternoon, XXX of XXX (metro area), who works with xxx, an outreach to gang members, and Readers' Theatre, "interviewed" 14-year-old xxx of Somalia. She had spent the week at the xxx school listening to children tell their stories.xxx spoke of his Muslim faith and of his journey from being an outsider in America to feeling accepted. He performed a traditional Somali dance for crowds of Americans, Bosnians and Mexicans.As the crowds watched delightedly, other groups performed too - xxx de Mexico, a song and dance troupe from xxx; xxx, area Philippine dancers; and a relatively new Bosnian folk music group, who the festival committee paid with a drum set.xxx, who helped organize the event, said she was thankful for the sunny weather. "It was just a real special time for the people in our community to come together in a spirit of friendship and have a happy day," she said.

OK. I've got one (a few - I'm actually happy today! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)Happiness is:Seeing your child succeed in even the smallest way.Seeing your child excited about getting his first job.Eating a nectarine and enjoying the taste of it almost as much as the taste of a good chocolate bar.Being able to talk to your spouse about all the painful thoughts that are on your mind (NoMas, this is not a slam or a push. Just that my H and I had a good heart-to-heart talk last night and I spilled out a lot of my pain on him. He listened to me and comforted me and I think that talk is the reason that I feel hahppy today.)

Happiness is .........My children telling me they love me [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

(we say that often!)Seeing my littlest (he's almost 1) get so excited when I come to pick him up.Waking up and feeling my H curled up beside me. As TS said, seeing my children succeed at what they try at.