I know there are a few deep thinkers and philosopheres out there.....anyone want to "bite" on this thread?<P>I never really thought much about this when I was younger, but "what" really makes people "Happy"? I don't even know if you can define "happiness". I remember two good quotes on the "quote" thread that was up a month or two ago...had two really good ones about happiness.<P>Happiness can never be obtained at someone else's expense......and....<P>"Happiness is not a result of 'getting something you want....but wanting what you already have."<P>You know....I just never realized that I was really lacking "happiness" in my heart, until I met my friend and fell in love with her.<BR>Pure and simple...she made me feel soooooo happy when I talked to her...and "feeling that happy'.....is what led me to NOT put the breaks on this relationship. <P>Think about it....why in the world do people do some of the things they do...other than the fact if makes them happy?! <P>I guess different folks are motivated by different things. Money, fame, power...etc. I have discovered something about myself that I have wondered for years...and what is it that motivates me, internally? I think I know the answer to that now...it is the "feeling of happiness". I realize this is not very balanced and safe...but perhaps this self discovery will enable me to re-program some thinking and behavior and thought.<P>Just wanted to throw this out....feeling low today...missing my friend. Her and I both know full well that it is highly irrational to believe that her and I are the key to each other's happiness. But nevertheless...it is a highly influential force that cannot be ignored.<P>I know the bible teaches there is "pleasure in sin...but only for a season". Perhaps "pleasure" is confused with happiness"....which then leads me back to my original question.....WHAT...is "happiness"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Happiness is not a result of 'getting something you want....but wanting what you already have."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Truer words were never spoken.<P>NoMas, I'm going to give it to you straight. No punches. No "Oh, poor you, yes, it's so painful for you."<P>NoMas, you are having a rollicking good time being miserable. Yes, you are. No, being miserable is not making you happy, but you sure as heck are getting a TON of gratification out of it. There's a difference.<P>Maybe it's attention you crave. OW gave it to you, and the only reason you're able to stay away from her is because you come here and everyone commiserates with your pain. So you get it here.<P>There's a wonderful scene in the movie ONE TRUE THING in which Meryl Streep is dying of cancer and trying to tell the Renee Zellweger character that she knows of her husband's affairs. It's just about that -- about CHOOSING to be happy with what you have. It doesn't just happen, you have to choose it.<P>I think "happiness", like "love", is not a feeling. It's a state of being, it's a process, it's an "action."<P>NoMas, the hole is inside your own psyche. The rush of your infatuation with OW makes you think she fills it. She doesn't. She's a band-aid, just as liquor or drugs or coffee or chocolate would be a band-aid.<P>You know why you "feel" unhappy right now? Because you're looking at your life based on what you can't have (OW) instead of what you DO have.<P>And you're doing a terrible disservice to your wife. <P>There was a fellow here a while ago, "airheart." He did the same thing you're doing -- came here pining away over the OW for months on end.<P>There comes a time, sir, when you have to sh*t or get off the pot. Either tell your wife what's going on, recommit to her and rebuild your marriage, or have the decency to cut her loose and let her have someone who'll love her.<P>Because right now you can't even love yourself, how can you love her?<p>[This message has been edited by Dazed and Confused (edited June 27, 2000).]

'Morning NoMas,<P>Still wallowing I see. Well NoMas I do feel for ya, but Dazed and Confused hit the nail on the head.<P>When are you going to get tired of feeling bad? <P>I bet your wife is getting good and sick of it.<P>Happiness...well NoMas, most of us are lucky to get a fleeting bit of it every now and then. Unfortunatley, life is not about being wonderfully, euporically (sp) happy every minute. Is this fair..hell no! We all have work, bills, problems with our kids, drudgery of day to day life. <P>Who told you that your life would be one long happy feeling? They lied.<P>But NoMas, you should have the proof by now that your present situation will NEVER make you happy. What is stopping you from getting this mess you've made straightened out? Think about life with OW, your children are shattered, you are paying child support up the butt, you get to see your kids maybe 4 days a week. Does that sound like a happy life? Believe me, your OW has plenty of faults too. She got involved with a MM...are you sure she would not do that again when you two are not blissfully happy?<P>Yeah NoMas, your quote was right...it is wanting what you already have. We have no way to make this happen for you. I think if you look at your options you will see that your best shot at happiness is making what you have honest and giving it a chance.<P>Update us NoMas. If you're any closer to talking to your wife...we can help you. If not, that's OK too, but to not do it because you're afraid of loosing both of them is not going to help you.<P>allison<P>

Wow, D&C<P>I would agree with the quote about being happy with what you have with one CAVIAT:<P>You create happiness with what you have.<P>You look at all the resources you have at your disposal (this is good 'cause I'm talking to myself too) and you decide what you can do with it.<P>For all the centuries except for this one, most people lived wandering where their next meal was coming from. This is no exaggeration! There was no central air, free time, extra money, etc.<P>What if you took some of that extra time and money and really TRIED to build something with your w? It takes a lot of single minded dedication (which you have not showed yet), but it just might be the road to happiness.<P>As I said, this was good for me. Been focusing on the negative too much lately. I AM working on building a happy marriage!<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Hi NoMas,<P>I'm going to quote something I read the other day in hopes it will plant a seed in your mind regarding your quest for the illusive "happiness" you're seeking. It helped me understand my H better (WS).<P>People risk everything on the hope that they can achieve joy by changing everything in their lives except themselves. They would like to press a button and have the old life go away and the new life appear (NoMas & OW). The human animal has an unfortunate tendency to identfy the source of any unhappiness as coming from outside itself. The fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves. Our unhappiness is not in our marriages, but within us. Changing everything about our lives (NoMas & OW) leaves everything important still the same, because we are the important factor in our lives, and we are the one thing left unchanged.<P>If you are unhappy NoMas, it is within you, not the circumstances/people outside of you.<P>Jo

Nomas<BR>Most of the people here would really like to help you. I'm not sure if you want to listen until someone says what you want to hear. <BR>Sorry! That's not me either.<P>I will answer your question though. To me happiness is:<P>What happens to you when you stop living inside yourself. It happens when you care about putting a smile on someone else's face. Even the grocery store clerk.<P> When you see someone having a bad day and you want to make them smile. When you let a pedestrian cross the street when they've been waiting for anybody to stop...and they smile back at you and wave. <P>It happens when you are too busy thinking about those random acts of kindness that you can do unto others instead of dwelling on what you want.<P>It happens when you have self respect and you like the person you are.<P>You want to be happy? Do something for somone else. And I don't mean the OW!

I agree wholeheartedly with this<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>It happens when you have self respect and you like the person you are.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The situation with the OW is not making you happy. In fact, it's causing you quite a bit of pain.<P>I think you are confusing the feeling you have with the OW with the feeling of happiness. It is not happiness. It's something else. I think you feel loved with her. You feel attended to and cared for with her. Those feelings can lead to happiness if you do not lose your self-respect in attaining them. <P>And you can feel loved by your wife if you give her a chance. She can attend to you and care for you if you give her a chance. And you will gain your self-respect back.<P>That sounds like the road to happiness to me. <P>Give it a try, NoMas. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>"Happiness is not a result of getting something you want....but wanting what you already have."<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is such a wonderful quote!!!<P><BR>NoMas, I personally can understand what you're meaning by this "happiness" thing. I felt that way about the OP, too. He made me "feel so happy". That's the key--it was a "feeling". I grinned from ear to ear when I talked to him and when I was w/him. I felt so good inside, like I truly was happy. But, NoMas, it was exactly that, just a feeling. And if I were to have ended up w/him, I'm sure I'd have eventually been looking for that "happiness" again. It's allowing someone else to fill (or bandage, as D&C said) your needs and desires, instead of finding that happiness w/in yourself and w/God. No one can MAKE you happy, you have to do it for yourself. You have to be happy w/YOU before you can be happy w/anyone else (true happiness anyway). <P>This reminds me of something my Mom told me when I was going through all the problems w/my H and my affair, etc. I told her that I didn't feel happy w/my H and OM made me so happy. Also that I didn't feel like I was "in love" w/my H. She told me, "You're not always going to "feel in love". There have been many times when I haven't felt "happy" w/Dad (my step-dad). But true love is about taking the good w/the bad and handling the ups and downs." She had more good advice, but I can't remember all the exact words. What we all are looking for is joy instead of happiness. Joy is something you have inside that surpasses happiness. I don't consider joy a "feeling". I think it's a state. I'm not quite explaining what I mean, but hopefully you know what I mean.<P>Happiness is what you make to be. You have to choose to be happy. You honestly have to make a conscious decision that you are going to be happy, at peace, in a good mood, pleasant, etc, in order to do so. <P>I don't know if you've read any of my posts about how I have to adjust my attitude, but that is what it's all about. I'll have to find the post, but what I said is that I literally looked at myself in the mirror and told myself I could continue to pity myself or I could move on and be grateful for what I have. I often have to give myself those "attitude adjustments", and here lately I've been getting better at doing that! <P>NoMas, you honestly have to do that. I know the pain you're in, I've literally been there. If you read my posts, you'll know. But NoMas, we can choose to be in pain, or we can choose to get out of it. The latter takes a lot more work, but it can be done. I know it hurts like h***, but if you got to get through it to get over it.<P>I hope I'm helping you. I'm trying to encourage you to get through this. Hang in there! Keep posting so we can give you advice. I know some replies are harsh, but they are true no matter how much they sting!<P><p>[This message has been edited by momma (edited June 27, 2000).]

Jo,<P>Thanks for quoting that. That explains my h too. I've always believed if I'm unhappy, it's me that needs fixing.<P>NoMas, yes there is pleasure in sin for a season, but one day we will have to give account for every idle word.<P>I thought you were smarter than this, or is it the fog talking? If anyone has earned the right to build a fire around you, I think I have.<P>You see, I KNEW I was not fulfilled in my marriage. I watched myself to not allow an opportunity for an OM. I knew I was vulnerable. My h was so focused on himself and his career.<P>On top of that I had to deal with the pain of waking up and learning he wasn't the man I believed he was. That he could go seek out this young girl overseas to sleep with on his trips! It was his way of searching for happiness.<P>I started back behind square one. He didn't feel in-love with me and I didn't feel much for him. Our love banks were in the red!<P>But Harley seemed to have defined principles that had the ring of truth. We decided to change our lives, start living by these rules.<P>I started to WORK to meet his needs, to make him happy. There were no guarantees it would come back to me. Still are no guarantees.<P>But I think you know all this. It comes down to a choice, either:<P>YOU WILL OR YOU WON'T<BR><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

I think Momma made some excellent points (a wise woman at her tender young age!). She said there is a difference between happiness and joy:<P>"What we all are looking for is joy instead of happiness. Joy is something you have inside that surpasses happiness. I don't consider joy a "feeling". I think it's a state".<P>I think that distinction is important. It is kind of hard to grasp the concept, but for me "joy" is something that I have/experience, independent of my circumstances. Happiness (or rather happy feelings) is something that is temporary and often directly related to my circumstances (such as when we have a real fun day or activity or are with a person who brings those "feelings" out in us). If we try to grasp for happiness we will always be frustrated because it is dependent on outside factors that we can't always control, and also doesn't last.<P>Several years ago, when I was frustrated that I never seemed to be very happy, I decided to do a (Bible) study on "joy". What surprised me was that in the majority of verses I looked at, joy was accompanied by thankfulness - that is where joy came from. That kind of supports some of the quotes that have already been mentioned here. And it does imply an "attitude adjustment" - change in thinking.<P>With all that in mind, I think we do oversimplify when we say it is ALL inside ourselves and if we straighten that out we will be happy. Life has many hardships, people do disappoint, pain is inevitable. So, while we may not be able to be "happy" due to circumstances, we can know joy - a more deep-seated "state" (for lack of a better word) - and that is, in my experience, more satisfying. Also, remember it is a fruit of the Spirit.<P>NoMas, I don't judge you for asking the questions. Just sometimes there aren't any easy answers. Remember God gives us what we have always been asking for - we just don't always recognize it at first.

NoMas, You have gotton some great replies. I'm going to print them off and save them, either for my H when he realizes it is he who is making himself unhappy, or my children, to help me parent them better.<P>I am also wondering about the first OW that made you come to this board....where you found this OW...didn't the first OW give you the same feeling....of happiness???????<P>Sometimes I wonder if you are my H...I think that's why I am drawn to your posts....but he thinks this is a cult.....

Nomas:<P>You know I usually avoid responding to these threads where betrayers are dealing with getting over OP because I feel I probably don't have enough empathy right now to be of any help to them. But I do read them because it helps a little to understand how they feel.<P>So much of what is written on these thread reminds me of being a teenager..madly in love, lost in the wonder of that special person who brought us so much "happiness". But you know a month or two later something might happen and you'd meet someone else and fall madly in love again. All of these relationships brought us happiness but that wasn't enough, until we grew up and realized that a real relationship required commitment in the face of disappointment and giving in spite of not always getting in return.<P>Some people have a hard time with moving on to real commitment...chugging through work, kids, disappointments, and life's other stresses...and underneath there's still that young kid who wants his happiness without all the hassle...and so he wants to move on..to find "real" happiness.<P>You have a commitment now, whether you like it or not, your job is to continue to commit to that relationship until "both" of you feel that it has no bond anymore. And if that is really the case, then you can move on to a new relationship without regret. <P>You owe your wife the right to have a part in deciding if the marriage is over, you can't decide between you and OW based on the momentary "happiness" you feel with OW.<P>I know this denial of "happiness" is hurtful to you and maybe you could be deliriously happy with OW. But is it worth the cost...your marriage, your children, your integrity, your family...all for what could be a fleeting moment of "happiness". <P>God doesn't always give you what you want, but he gives you what you need. Trust that it is for the best.<BR> <BR>Buffy<p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 27, 2000).]

NoMas,<P>Let's look at what happiness is not. It is not living a life contrary to your morals, values and beliefs. <P>You are betraying your own integrity.<P>I think you are confusing happiness for some kind of chemical reaction in your brain that signals euphoria. If this is your label for happiness, you need to get a fix with one new relationship after another, or keep your relationships seperate from real life.<P>I think true happiness is found in living a life worthy of your particular calling. A life that gives as much as it takes, a life that pursues dreams while making the most of our unique individual gifts. A life that gains stength through adverisity and prizes wisdom and kindness, integrity and honor.<P>

Wow, Sifted and Buffy! You two are both right on key! I totally agree with both of you!<P>Sifted, You always seem to say perfectly what I'm trying to "spit out"! Thanks! That's exactly what I meant about joy!

On the "throwing in the towel" thread there is a definition of happiness "The Bluebird of Happiness" which is worth looking at. It makes the distinction between happiness and joy. See the post from heartache.

Yes, I agree Momma.<P>Buffy definately has the gift of articulating her thoughts very clearly. <P>Whenever I see she's posted, I pay special attention to her words, I consider her one of the heavy hitters on this board.<P>The circumstances that brought us here are unfortunate however, we're blessed with the presence of many caring and special people here on the board.<P>Jo

NoMas: What a question! If anything I have learned in all my years of turmoil is that happiness comes from you. It comes from within. NO ONE can "make" you happy. If that is what you think, your expectations may be crushed when that other individual doesn't follow through. Believe me. I have put my faith in others especially my spouse to "make" me happy and much to my surprise it has been a great letdown. I was the one who was not happy and was expecting him to give me that happiness. That is an unrealistic expectation from him or anyone else for that matter. Someone referred to the OP as the BandAid effect. That rings true somewhat. Your OW can only remedy your sadness, confusion or whatever ills you're feeling temporarily, but only you can remedy it permanently. You know what ails you and you need to clear that up first before you start the road toward healing and happiness. It's tough! I have been working on it for the past 3 years. I have been working on myself to find out how I can find happiness within myself. I plant flowers, ride my motorcycle, run, read, spend time with my kids and grandkids and working on getting along with my spouse. I do the things that contribute to my well being, but I have to decide what I want my happiness to be. Not "who" or "what material item" can "make" me happy. <BR>Does this make sense to you? The saying "you complete me" doesn't work with me. I complete me, you just compliment my existing happiness.<BR>NoMas: I hope this does not sound like a scolding or anything of that nature. I am only speaking from my experiences and mishaps. If I can help someone else from going through the emotional pain that I have experienced, then I hopefully helped someone get closer toward wellness instead of destruction. Much luck to you and your quest to find happiness. You might look at yourself in the mirror and see if the person staring back can help you.

.<p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited June 27, 2000).]

Gosh....what in the world was this all about? Maybe I need to re-read what I posted to begin with. <P>OH....I see. “Happiness....is telling NoMas what his problem is” :-)<P>Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought all I asked for was some thoughts on how you all would define “happiness”. I don’t think I asked for an assault on my personal struggles or asked what I needed to do.<P>I thought I made it clear that some encouraging progress was being made in my own heart as to how I viewed some things. I listed two very good quotes that held a lot of truth. I admitted that I knew it was irrational to think that some other person could be a key to my happiness. For that matter, I think it is wrong to expect my own wife, or kids, or job, or anything......outside of my self...to be a source of happiness. I would like to think that “happiness” is something that can be obtained regardless of the external circumstances that surround someone's life.<P>Let’s be honest...there are multitudes of.....unhappy people today. And they would love to find the answer to what could make them happy. Many of them are here on these boards. Many of them are...in marriages....where there has been no betrayal or infidelity or abuse. There are multitudes of people today...who are financially stable...healthy....and go to church every Sunday...and are still not happy.<P>I was just wanting to create some healthy dialogue here with this topic. Yes...there really some very good things posted here which I would whole-heartedly agree with. I also agree that happiness has a lot to do with what we are ‘giving’ and not ‘getting’. Hence, the verse that refers that it is “more blessed to give than to receive”.<P>I even admitted the possibility of confusing short term pleasure with happiness. I understand the “euphoric chemical” sensations that can be triggered by various circumstances. <P> For some reason, I must have not clarified myself very well. I just have been in this ‘season’ of life....where so much of the mundane, day-to-day...life...caught up with me. I didn’t realize how ‘dead’ inside I was. I have just read Conway’s book: “Men in Midlife Crisis” It is describing me to a tee! I am sincerely trying to refocus my life and mind back to where it needs to be. The fact that I have betrayed my wife...polluted my integrity.....and fallen so far...from where I used to be, does not make the climb back any easier.<P>Dazed and wasstubborn....I would like to ask you this.... What is it that you think I am “wanting to hear”? I have to disagree with you....I am not here for attention. I apologize if my posts ‘rub you’ the wrong way. Again....please go back and read what I started here....I just wanted some input on how others would define happiness. You certainly exercised your right to voice your opinions. But I am puzzled by the 'attitude" that they were wrapped up in...especially since I was not asking for that kind of input.<P>Yes...I did admit there is still much pain inside of me. I am in withdrawal. Obviously, I need to keep that to myself. I have often thought that some people can wear out their welcome here on the boards. Perhaps my time has come.<P>Others....I have witnessed over time, sensed a need to ‘rest’ from these boards. I too, will follow suit. <P>Take care,<P>NoMas<P>

Hey NoMas,<P>Hope you're still around to read this. <P>You're ticked huh? Well you came to the right place to vent. I guess if a newbie came in and asked the happiness question you asked he would have gotten a lot different replies than you did. We kinda know you NoMas, and know where you are in your life right now, so we...right or wrong...answered your question with preconceived knowledge.<P>No one here means to make you feel painted into a corner, and I can see how you're beginning to feel that way. My husband could not have told me about his infidelity until he was good and ready. Yes, I had enough evidence to nail him...and I did, but still, he was ready. It could not-would not have happened until that night. For many reasons, partially because I was ready to hear it.<P>I have read the Jim Conway book Men in Midlife. It's a great book about mid life crisis, really touches all the bases. Let me say, good for you for reading it. It's certainly more than my husband has done even though I left the darn book in the bathroom for months!<P>We here need to give you the time and space we have so lovingly tried to give our own WS. You have your own time schedule here. I am guilty of not recognizing that and I'm sorry. Only you can decide when the right time is for you. I guess maybe I felt like I could help you and/or your wife with the pain that you are in. I was wrong.<P>Please don't leave us NoMas.<BR>