How long has your marriage survived since the affair?

Marriage Builders

I would greatly appreciate it if you would let me know how long you were married before the A, and how long since if you're recovering. Also, is your marriage better/stronger than before? This will mean a lot to me. Thanks.

Jcook - I am a former WS. My H am I have been married 4 1/2 years, the affair occurred right after our third anniversary and last for about 6 months. We have been in recovery for almost a year (a year in April) - and I can say, our marriage is not perfect - but I love my H more today than on the day I married him. We not only survived infidelity, but our marriage is thriving - and we both are committed to keeping it that way.

A started after 9.5 year of marriage. Separated immediately where he lived with Ow partly for 11 months. This is 18 month after DD. Marriage is better than before. More laughther, more tenderness and passion and more communication.

We were married 9 years before my wife's affair (of about a year). We've been in recovery about 2.5 years now. Our marriage isn't perfect either, but it's much better AND stronger than before.

My H & I were together for a total of 8 years...married for 6 years prior to his 7-week affair.We have been in fairly good recovery for 25 months.Our relationship was better before the chaos. However, there are improvements, such as communication and recovery from alcohol addiction.We also have a stronger sense of commitment & family values. [This message has been edited by Survivor [aka_NoTrust] (edited March 22, 2001).]

H and I lived together for 2 years before we were married. We had only been married a year and a half when he had the A (which lasted 6 months). The six months before the A were very stressful, his job was extremely taxing, we sold a house, built a new one, I had a miscarriage and so on and so one. We just passed the 2 year anniversary of the A being over and things have been really good. I still have my bad days but overall we have much better communication and a stronger relationship than ever before.

I was married for about 7 years when I cheated on my husband. The affair (EA and PA combined) lasted about 6 months (more EA than PA). I ended the online EA myself. I kept everything a secret for 1 year and 7 months before I confessed. I confessed on October 13, 2000. So, my marriage has survived for five months since confession.In some ways the marriage is better because there are no more lies. In some ways the marriage is better because we get to rebuild and make the relationship what it should've been in the first place.In some ways it's worse because of all of the pain that there is to work through.No, I wouldn't change a thing except for my choice to have an affair to begin with. I'm glad that I confessed because I think that my husband and I will have a stronger relationship in the future. I mean, if a marriage can survive what we've been through, everything else that normally would've caused conflict doesn't seem like very much to worry about.Hope this helps.Jill

HI jcook, I think I'm an oldtimer....married 21yrs. when I found out and it had been going on for about 2yrs.....now in recovery about 2yrs.Better than before? You know , I don't think so...I honestly felt we had a good marriage (stupid me!). My H is so much nicer and kinder now(than during the A) but I don't really feel the same....I'm not sure if it's because of the broken trust or the the fact he won't do counseling? I think I have a wall up......LU

Married 15 years when his A started. Have been in recovery 19 months now. "In love" now...yes, both of us, but we know that these feelings aren't what matters. Our commitment to work together is. We have a stronger marriage than ever today, and he wants to grow old together and have side by side rocking chairs!But, this recovery is the hardest thing we've ever done, and we wouldn't have made it without a great therapist for 1 year and MB principles.lizzie

We were married 31 years when he had the affair. It ended 18 months ago and so did the marriage. Legally we are still married and we live (co-exist) together, but it has become a business arrangement. He uses me for wifely "stuff" and I use him as an ATM machine. Pretty sad. I am amazed that marriages become better after an affair, but maybe they weren't good before the affair so they could only get better. Dumb me, I though my marriage was good! S.

I'really the old timer here. We have been married 33yrs. Raised 3 wonderful kids and looked as though we had a good marriage although there wasn't the emotional connection I would have wanted. I had strong suspicions of an A but when I questioned anything I was told more or less that I was just a paronoid wife. Last Sept. I was told of a 15 year affair. My h said he finally woke up to the fact that he couldn't and didn't want to live his life that way anymore. He said the affair with a co-worker was stricly sexual when they were gone on business(?) trips. He says he never loved her or planned to leave his family. We are in counseling both as a couple and individual. The pain is terrible and I wonder if the trust will ever come back. I can honestly say I see an enourmous difference in him and without all that guilt and the tension of living two lives he is much more pleasant to live with. Maybe,I'm being foolish to think we can make it after such a deception but We are trying and hope to set a better example for our grandchildren than we did for our children. Right now things are going well. But there are also really bad days too. I hope it doesn't take 15 years for this rollercoaster to even out.

jcook My husband and I were married for 19 years when he had his affair. It lasted about 3 months and ended at the revelation. We have been "in recovery" now for 3 years. I put in recovery in quotes, because I believe we are healed now. It took the better part of that three years to happen completely however.Our marriage is wonderful. We are very happy and content...we have passion, excitement, trust, honesty, great communication, disagreements, frustrations, hope for the future, and all the things that are part of a normal, healthy marriage. I would definitely say our marriage is better now that it was at the time of the affair, but it wasn't horrible even then. We had both made mistakes and gotten into bad habits and I was slightly depressed and hiding that from my husband and even myself to some degree. We had a good marriage with a solid foundation and strong commitment to each other and our vows. No, that didn't stop my husband from having an affair....but it is definitely a huge part of what caused him so much grief while he was having the affair and enabled us to restore and improve our marriage afterwards. So, summertime, the thought that the marriages that are better now were bad before the affair isn't accurate. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Hear me clearly, our marriage isn't better because of the affair. Our marriage is better because we both trusted God and gave control over to Him. We sought Him in our healing and let Him guide us. We both did some very hard work and went through a lot of pain to reach this point. I absolutely believe we could have done this without an affair happening.....it was just the crisis that blew the doors off of all we had been hiding from each other and thrust us into the position where we had to get it together or fall apart. I will never be grateful for the sin that came into our lives, but I will always be grateful for the way God moved and revealed Himself to us and healed us and our marriage.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

Married 11 years when he began affair that lasted about 10 weeks till she got caught by her H. He then left to be with her and that lasted three months, back together now two years exactly today. Better yes, but not because of the affair, because of the realization that we need to work on things and we want this marriage to work.

Married 27 years, 3 kids, ditto, not the emotional connection I would have liked but a good marriage,for me, all things considered. His EA began online for about 3 months and went physical for 3 weeks. DDay was Aug 20 and contact,online and by phone, continued about another 3months. In secret. So, recovery has been 4 months. Our marriage is just now really beginning to get better and back to who we were always supposed to be. We will recover,better and stronger. I am just so sad(understatement) that it took this for us to seek the marriage two people who love each other as much as we do should have always had. [This message has been edited by Wounded2673 (edited March 22, 2001).]

We have been married 32 years and have been rebuilding our marriage since the discovery of his affair three years ago. His "secret friendship" with the OW began at about our 19th year of marriage and lasted almost 10 yrs before I discovered it. Our marriage is much better now, NOT because of the affair but inspite of it. We have a renewed appreciation of each other now and realize what we almost lost.

HG, a quick question. Did your husgand think the marriage was good before his affair?I think the reason I don't want to stay in my marriage is because he thought the marriage was fine and loved me and had an affair. So what is the point of marriage for him? It doesn't compute in my mind. Perhaps when the WS is looking for something more that the marriage can provide the marriage becomes better. I can't provide more for my husband than I did before the affair. You obviously could and are. I felt I was the best wife I could be and he still had an affair.I keep reading that affairs are illogical, you can't make sense out of nonsense, etc., but I am VERY logical and sensible and don't buy it. Unfortunately, for me, I will not move forward in the recovery process (even alone) because this is so bewildering to me.My thereapist says forget the two year mark--for some of us it takes longer which I hope will be of some help to others on this board. I'm at 18 months and it still feels like yesterday. S.

We both freely admit that for about a year prior to and during the affair our marriage was not all it could have been. But that doesn't mean it was a really bad marriage. I was slightly depressed and didn't share it with anyone...I also thought I didn't love my husband any more and was terrified by those feelings. He had been in and out of a slight depression for a while too. Neither of us was bad enough to need medication...in fact since we were both in our early 40's I would classify it as a type of mid-life crisis. We had let the day-to-day grind and responsibilities take the fun out of us as individuals and that had a detrimental effect on our marriage. The affair happened because my husband was unhappy....more in himself than in our marriage. He assured me that he never stopped loving me or wanted to leave me and that the ow knew this....she did confirm that, but I also know she was hoping our marriage would fall apart and he would turn to her. She was twice divorced and looking for husband #3 and she targeted mine...she also admitted that she bears more responsibility for the affair that he did. Bottom line is that we had a good marriage....but there were problems in both of us that affected the marriage in a negative way.I do believe that some men, because of their shallow and selfish nature, will not be faithful in marriage. I believe we all have the capability to be faithful, but some people are so immature that they choose not to be. I don't blame you for your reluctance to remain married to your husband if this is the case. But I also believe in the power of prayer and God's desire to work a miracle and so encourage you to move carefully. If you do have a relationship with God I encourage you to seek His guidance and will as you make long term decisions about your marriage. The Bible says that divorce is not God's plan, but that in the case of an unfaithful spouse who refuses to change their ways it is acceptable. I believe the intent is for the wounded spouse to seek all avenues of healing before choosing divorce, however.I'm very logical as well....and it took much prayer and self-examination before I could accept that I would never make sense of such a stupid choice. My husband loved me and never wanted to leave me, yet he had an affair...that can't make sense no matter what. He wasn't looking for something I couldn't provide him, he was just looking to feel better and this woman detected his vulnerability and and acted on it. What does make sense is that had we turned to each other and shared openly how we were feeling, we could have reached this point in our marriage in a much less painful way. But if I dwell on that and let the "what ifs" and "if onlys" control me, I will never be happy and I want more than anything to be happy. I choose to accept that the past is the past and can't be changed. I choose to forgive and be happy. My husband has chosen those things as well, which may be the difference in my case and yours.Your therapist is correct about the pace of healing...it does take longer for some than for others. In my case, it did happen pretty quickly, but I believe that is about God, not me. I encourage you to continue therapy....choose happiness and let the therpist help you.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31[This message has been edited by HGBrawner (edited March 23, 2001).]

HG, no my husband is very remorseful, but I'm too hard hearted to accept it. Plus the trust is gone. Two years ago I could have said, "MY husband would never do......." I cannot say that now. That is extremely hard for me. Some people could never have said that and they could accept that. Now there is NOTHING I can say he wouldn't do because I truly don't know. Because I had so much trust in this man, I feel very destroyed. We've been together since we are 15 and 16 so the fact that I NEVER knew him has been devastating. Not only did he do what he did, but I didn't know the man I counted on. Shame on me.Also what does it say about our husbands that they couldn't come to us if they were unhappy with themselves, which I think is the same case with my husband. I asked before but never got a response, why should we want to stay with weak men?And the last question, which I understand you may not be able to answer is "What if God wasn't in your life?" Where would your marriage be now. Thanks, I hope I'm not prying too much. S.

my H (WS) and I had been together a little over 10 years, married for 2. The A started innocently soon after we were married. The PA lasted for 3 months, but they talked online both before and after the PA (about a year before the PA, and about 8 months after the PA). So basically, it lasted the entire span of our marriage. Great start, huh?We've been in recovery for almost 9 months now, and it's still very hard, at least for myself. I don't want to speak for my H, but I think it's been really hard on him, too. He's been feeling very remorseful and guilty, but he's also been great at being there for me, supporting me and comforting me, for which I am eternally grateful for.Our marriage, ironically is so much better now. We talk, we spend time together, he calls or I call him a couple times a day to say I love you. He helps out more around the house, we cuddle, he's more expressive with his feelings and I'm starting to get better at expressing mine. All of this was non-existant for a few years leading up to the A. I just wish that there could have been an easier way to get the same effect without the pain of an A, but sometimes you don't get what you want in life.summertime: you said, "Two years ago I could have said, "MY husband would never do......." I cannot say that now. That is extremely hard for me. Some people could never have said that and they could accept that. Now there is NOTHING I can say he wouldn't do because I truly don't know. Because I had so much trust in this man, I feel very destroyed. We've been together since we are 15 and 16 so the fact that I NEVER knew him has been devastating. Not only did he do what he did, but I didn't know the man I counted on. Shame on me."you have no idea how many times I come back to that statement. Whenever I have doubts- and I have had doubts about us, let me tell you!- I find that I lean on that old saying "My H could never hurt me like that". I even said that to him once after confronting him and facing yet another denial. I was not too convinced, but I said that to him and to myself to convince me that everything was ok. I can't use that line anymore, because he can and did hurt me like that. And yes, there is no comfort in that truth.I've know my H for over half my life- we were high school sweethearts. It kills me that I never knew him. I don't trust him, and I expect that trust is not going to return- I have been too hurt by people in the past and now by my H that I will never truly believe what anyone says and does anymore. The sad thing is is that my H knew about my past trust issues and he still chose to abuse my trust in him. I used to think my H was special, now he's just another person in my life who has let me down horribly.Sorry for going on like this, it's just when I read your post I was shocked at how similar our thoughts were and I wanted to let you know that you are not alone with your thoughts and feelings, that I can relate to what you're going through.

summertime I have only got a minute because I am meeting my husband for lunch....but I wanted to tell you that I read your last post and will answer it this afternoon or evening. I believe deep down you want to forgive your husband and move forward...the questions you ask me point to that. I promise to get back to you today....look for an individual thread.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

hurts2much, thank you so much for sharing with me. I am so desperate to find a forum that is more in touch with reality than this forum seems. The people here who are recovering seem to do so very easily. And there are so many aspects of an affair that are not easy for me to digest.My marriage was not perfect and my husband definitely had flaws, but because I thought he was honorable, trustworthy and respectful of me, I was able to overlook the other things. But now what? Someone posted about their child asking how a dad could murder a mom and kids. I know this sounds melodramatic but I can't say my husband wouldn't do that either. He made me feel like I was his life so if he could destroy me by having an affair, who knows what else he could do? I never see this subject addressed. I wonder why? Again, thank you so much. S.ps I'm glad your days are better with your husband.

Hi Summertime,I will give you the short answer to your murder question. Your H won't do that for the same reason he won't do many other things. You feel your H had the affair to hurt you. But I suspect he had it to address his problems, not cause you problems. I doubt that he didn't realize that having an affair, (If caught) would hurt you. But something was wrong with him and he was trying to address it. The wrong way I agree, but I doubt that his intent was to harm you or anyone else. Just because someone lies about something doesn't mean everything about them is a lie. Consider something as simple as dieting. People lie to other people and themselves about dieting. Are they not to be trusted ever again? I realize one issue isn't the same as the other. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

But that is exactly the point. You H made a hugh mistake, no doubt. But I suspect he has learned from it. Learned things about himself that he is greatly ashamed of. Learned that the answer he was seeking was not to be found in an other person. If he is truely remorseful, you are more likely to have a faithful spouse, than the rest of us who haven't been tested.I see your issue as a glass half full or half empty. It will be your choice to decide. However, there is the other option and that is to fill the glass again or simply empty it out. Personally, I'm from the fill the glass up while you can camp. You never know where the next source of water will be.I look forward to seeing what HGB has to say. She is a very smart lady. I hope she can help you. I know you are seeking help and surely wish I was capable of helping you. Maybe she can.God Bless,JL

JL, I think much of what you said is true. However, I don't know that he wouldn't murder. I won't put myself in the position of ever saying he wouldn't do whatever. He made a fool of me once, he won't do it again. He is a person I don't know.As far as his not getting caught, he tells me he planned to confess the affair to me because he felt so guilty. I caught him first. So not getting caught was never an issue with him. According to his therapist and mine, he had problems within himself not with me. But the fact is he chose to deal with his problems in a way that would hurt me. And if he wasn't thinking about me, that is equally hurtful. A grown up man of 51 KNOWS having an affair is wrong. I can't rationalize any reason for his doing that.The longer time goes on the more I realize I just don't want to be married to him. I need to find a way to recover alone. Can you help me with that? Thanks for your input. S.

I was the one who originally posted about my child's question about the man who murdered his family. I don't think that man murdered his family to hurt them, or get rid of them. He had been on prozac for depression, and it seems obvious that this was a case of severe mental illness (I don't believe that a mentally healthy person, no matter how evil, could commit such gruesome murders, especially of his own family), but he appeared to be fully functional right up until the night he killed them all.But the point is that you can not know. Fortunately only a small percentage of people murder their spouses and children. But whether it is due to a character flaw or mental illness, you can not know when the person whom you have trusted for most of your life will suddenly become someone you don't recognize, someone who does not care how he, emotionally at least, hurts you or his children.

My h and I had been married 9 years when he had his affair(s)...one EA (he said it was 'friends') and one PA (one night stand). It has been around 2 years since those incidents, and we go through phases of recovering nicely and not recovering so nicely. Recovery has to have two willing partners and sometimes the past does rear its' ugly head on occasion--these are things that take a LONG time to overcome.Nellie, you said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...But whether it is due to a character flaw or mental illness, you can not know when the person whom you have trusted for most of your life will suddenly become someone you don't recognize, someone who does not care how he, emotionally at least, hurts you or his children.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If I were to actually believe this statement, I wouldn't be in my marriage right now. I can understand why you say this, dealing with all you have had to deal with, but I don't believe that this situation is that commonplace (maybe it is, but you can't go into marriage or keep 'on guard for this to happen, or you don't have a healthy marriage at all). Also, I have also come to rely heavily upon myself for my own happiness. We should strive to better our marriages, certainly, but I have found that I can't become so entrenched in what my h does that I lose myself in the process (which happened after disclosure).

Kayleigh,Unfortunately, I think this situation is quite commonplace. The author of "Sudden Endings" interviewed many, many women who were on the receiving end of "narcissistic rage" after long, seemingly happy marriages. I'm not sure I would have believed it myself until I experienced it. Before I found out about the affair, I asked my H why a few months previously he had changed from the responsible, thoughtful man he used to be to staying away for many hours, never letting me know where he was, etc. -- and he said that he had "entered do-not-care mode" - in other words he no longer cared if what he was doing hurt us or not.

My H thought the marriage was great before and during the affair. He never wanted us to split and was very complimentary towards me always.I'm the same as you. I needed for it all to make sense. It all really ended for me as soon as I found out about the affair, but I was still around because I needed to know everything. I wanted to know who, how often, why, when, where, who knew, yadda, yadda, yadda. But you are right. Affairs are illogical, and when I finally accepted that conclusion and let it go, I began to heal. There is no answer. There is nothing wrong with you. It's the WS's issue and there is nothing you can do to fix it. I'm not someone who can tolerate adultery, so as much as I wanted to fix it, I couldn't. Even if the ex had done everything I needed for him to do to prove his love, he wouldn't have really changed, and I could never be whole again. It had to end... and I am happier that it did because I have to live in honesty.

jcookWe have been married for 17 years and almost 4 months. We have been together going on 19 years. Our marriage has survived 2 years and a tad over one month since discovery. We have been in true recovery for 16 months. I can't tell you how long we were married when the affair started, because he doesn't really know any dates. So I would only know the answers to that if I ever got the opportunity to talk to her directly and the courage to ask. The affair last between two and five years. Secret friendship to start with and eventually became physical, then a total love affair. That time was probably between a year and two years.I could have written much that HGBrawner said in her second to last post here. Except our marriage had gotten very bad. We both treated each other horribly and let life get in our way. There are many extenuating circumstances in our lives. I won't go into them here. I also was not sure if I loved my husband anymore and that was depressing me further. Midlife crisis had something to do with all of this as well as many other things. He turned to other woman; I turned farther into my own depression.We have a better marriage now, and it isn't because of the affair either. Like Nerlycrzy said it was in spite of the affair. The affair and the fact that he was totally in love with her and did not believe he loved me any more at all was a huge wake up call for me. Upon discovery I immediately knew I did indeed love him.We also have recovered because of what HGBrawner said, our commitment to each other and God. Our children, our history and tons of very hard work and pain. The benefits of going through all this though out way all of the pain. They honestly do. We would not have made it if it were not for God's blessings and grace.The first eight months after discovery were incased with him still being in the fog. Those months though allowed us the time to build a bit and prepare for recovery.We are in love now and it gets stronger everyday...easier and more relaxed. It is exciting and wonderful. Not without times of pain and triggers, but it is a remarkable metamorphous. We enjoy each other’s company and look at life very differently. He and I both want this marriage to work and look forward to whatever years the Lord blesses us with here on this earth together. There is "No out Clause" for us, just as God intended there not to be. We promised each other that 17 plus years ago, we promised God that and all the wonderful family and friends that witnessed our marriage and celebrated it with us. We are not going to break that promise again.I understand much of what you are saying Summertime. I really didn't know my husband any longer, the one that was having the affair. Now I get to look forward to learning and knowing the man he is now and is becoming. It is a wonderful blessed experience. I too would have nearly bet my life on my husband never having an affair. I thought I knew him that well. I was totally blindsided by the discovery of it, even though I had suspected and questioned him about the possibility of his having one. Naturally he denied it. The man I knew and married wouldn't have had one. The man he had become because of life's trial and tribulations did. That doesn't negate the man he was, or is now. It only proves he is human and vulnerable to mistakes and bad judgments. It also doesn't negate who he was while he was having the affair. That man is a man he is ashamed of and says he will take the guilt from it all to his grave. He is no longer that man though, he has grown from his journey, just as I have grown and learned from mine.Now, Summertime you ask <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Someone posted about their child asking how a dad could murder a mom and kids. I know this sounds melodramatic but I can't say my husband wouldn't do that either. He made me feel like I was his life so if he could destroy me by having an affair, who knows what else he could do? I never see this subject addressed. I wonder why? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I can say that without a doubt my husband would not do that because even the horrible, hurtful and cruel man he had become during his affair (not to mention incredibly selfish, but none the less a lost man) would not have been capable of doing this. He isn't or wasn't capable of murdering anyone. Murder goes beyond the ability to have an affair or hurt someone emotionally. It is completely a different animal. I know that the pain from adultery feels so close to death and destruction as we could imagine murder would feel. I know I felt like I was dying or wished that death would come and allow me to escape from it. The point I am trying to make is, even though I believe part of my husband did have an affair to hurt me, mostly he had an affair because he went with the emotions that sprung forth from someone making him feel wonderful again. It was about him and how he was feeling and the "fix" that was presented to him at the time. It had very little to do with hurting me. You also post <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>hurts2much, thank you so much for sharing with me. I am so desperate to find a forum that is more in touch with reality than this forum seems. The people here who are recovering seem to do so very easily. And there are so many aspects of an affair that are not easy for me to digest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all big {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Summertime}}}}}}}}}}}}}}This forum really is based in so much reality that it is scary. I have found very few situations on this forum where anyone is recovering very easily. Those are the rare and few exceptions. I also second your statement that there are many aspects of an affair you don't easily digest. I am not very sure that some of them I will ever digest. Nope, cause those aspects just plain stink!My husband had gotten to the point of Nellie's husband and not cared. Still he never planned to be caught and went to great extremes not to be caught. He led a double life and that was killing his spirit and soul. Upon my anonymous phone call alerting me to the affair, he said his first reaction was relief! Relief that he no longer had to be that deceitful ugly man he had become. He felt like a huge weight had been lifted from his shoulders. He, the real and true basis of what he is, was not that man, and although he may never admit it, was not the man he was when he was with her. That was all based on fantasy, no real life problems or daily living. They never in all that time had an argument, saw the distasteful things spouses do when they live together and truly get to know one another nor were they able to ever move around freely with out hiding to some degree or another. That man wasn't him, but instead was someone he was creating much like an actor creates a character in a play or movie. Summertime <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also what does it say about our husbands that they couldn't come to us if they were unhappy with themselves, which I think is the same case with my husband. I asked before but never got a response, why should we want to stay with weak men?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Your husband isn't a weak man; he was only a weak man when he was with her. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>We've been together since we are 15 and 16 so the fact that I NEVER knew him has been devastating. Not only did he do what he did, but I didn't know the man I counted on. Shame on me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not shame on you. You did know the man he was before he had the affair and you have the opprotuntity to get to know the man he will become after the affair. The choice however is ulitimately yours. The man that was having the affair and the man that he was while he was with her, well that is the man you didn't know. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And the last question, which I understand you may not be able to answer is "What if God wasn't in your life?" Where would your marriage be now? Thanks, I hope I'm not prying too much. S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I know I am answering questions, in fact most of them that are not directed at me but HGBrawner and I am sure her responses will be much better than mine, but...If God were not in my life and in my husband's life, we would not have made it. The commitment and vows meant very much to both of us. Our daughter in common did too. God blessing us with the chance at recovery and his gracious gifts during this struggle is what is getting us through. He truly is an awesome God! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

The choice is yours Summertime and only yours. I know for a fact this is doable. Back when this all became painfully apparent to me, I would have never bet that we would be here, but we are. I know I for one am not going to throw away the happiness God has provided for me, or the love my husband has for me. I love this man with all of my heart and my soul is promised to God.I have learned one thing from all of this, and that's that no human, man or woman, should ever have the kind of trust we had for our spouses. Simply because they are human and can fall into temptation, doing things that can hurt us. The only being that we can trust to continually love us regardless of who we are, or what we are doing is God! At least for me I think that was my hugest error...allowing my husband to become what only God should have been.Now this has turned into one of my painfully long posts. I never intended to say more than my stats here until I read the whole thread. Then I just couldn't keep my fingers from typing. Please forgive me all?I would like to thank jcook for starting this thread, as it has some great thoughts, ideas and advise. Everyone here has said some very profound statements and shared their deepest thoughts with us all. To all of you I thank you.Just before I end this I have to say...{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nellie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}I am so sorry for your immense pain. Please know my thoughts and prayers are with you. I pray that you will be healed from your pain and that you will find true happiness and light in your life.Okay now I am going to say goodnight. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Mega hugs to all of you. Wishing you all the best weekend you can have. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

With God on our side we can't lose! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

What God has joined together let no man put asunder. Samantha [This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 23, 2001).]

Nellie, I hear ya. It's an incredibly confusing and painful situation to be placed in, and it's scary to know that we may not always know who we think we know best. I have to tell you what a wonderful mother you are, you have my utmost respect.Sometimes it feels like you're stuck between wanting to trust and knowing what trusting gets you, though.

Kayleigh,You are correct - I used to be a reasonably trusting person, at least of people I knew well, and look where it got me.

Samantha, first of all your post was very kind. But my husband is a very weak man. Perhaps this is what the therapist is focusing on hoping it will be something I can forgive. I have learned to see the weakness but I am not able to forgive the behavior. Someone wrote their husband was in a mode that he just didn't care about his family--did not mean to hurt them. My husband claims he did not care about himself anymore which is why he had an affair (with a stripper). It was his way of destroying himself, which it did. He has begged me to stay to help him recover himself. And I am until September 1. Perhaps I will leave sooner if my stomach keeps hurting so much. And I am keeping my fingers crossed that I won't stay longer.You wrote how much you enjoy each other. My husband and I always enjoyed it each other. We still do. Our marriage looks as good as it always did. We are both the types of people who get along well with others. Neither of us has tempers, we've never been competitive with each other. We just loved each other and our children. We were a good, and I thought strong family. We raised two children who would be a pride to any parents. They are both self-supporting and in this day and age that alone is an accomplishment [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

. We laugh, we date, we have lots of sex. But inside I am dying because as Medea said, the honesty is gone. I have to leave for me to recover. Good luck to you and I am sorry I don't have the compassion inside me that you have. S.

Summertime,May I make a few suggestions? I realize that you aren't religous. I also realize that your question earlier about the necessity of having God in your life in order to recover had a different meaning than the people here expected.Let me start by saying that I am older than your H and you. I have been around more than a few blocks in my life and I have seen a great deal of life. Further, logic is my specialty, I am a scientist. So please understand what I am going to say is not meant to hurt you. Indeed I hope it causes you to pause and think.First, you have indeed failed your H. You were not the perfect W and your marriage was not perfect. Logic dictates that you are seeing things through very distorted glasses. You failed your H, because you thought he was some sort of superman. You probably treated him as such, expecting him to take care of all of his own problems without your help. Indeed I will submit to you, that he could not bring to you his problems because you would have put him down and shamed him. You WANTED and NEEDED superman, so he was. BUT the problem was/is he isn't superman. He was simply a man with no where to turn, certainly he could not turn to you, and it is difficult for a father to turn to his children with his internal failings. He had a mid-life crisis because he knew what you should have known; he was human and he needed your understanding and help.You have failed him. Period and his assessment of you is proving to be right. I know what he was going through and had it not been for finding this site I might have easily of done what he did or simply announced to my W that I wanted a divorce before I did it. I doubt that either action would have been pain free. Indeed, I suspect now, although at the time I didn't think so,that simply announcing I was out of here and wanted a divorce would have been more painful. Complete and total rejection of her at every level. Just as you are about to do to your H.I cannot think of a better way to simply level someone. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

You H's actions are very "logical". The problem you have in seeing the logic of it, is:1. You never knew him well enough, he had to be "Superman".2. You have never failed in your life.3. You never saw the pain he was in. He had an affair with a stripper? Quite simply he wasn't trying to replace you, he was seeking relief from the pain and emptiness in his life. He was in pain and you never knew it, because you never looked, you never asked, and honestly you never cared. You needed "superman" and you got him. You were happy enough with that.Summertime, marriage is for humans. It is a constant testing, learning, and growing exercise. Successful marriages require give and take, forgiveness, kindness, gentleness, and most of all the realization that your partner for life is not perfect. For if we were perfect we would not need religion would we? We would not have to make vows. You trusted your H, because it was easier, than working on your marriage all of these years. I will say this and I will say it to all reading this, TRUST is often used as a crutch to coverup the fact that we have/are failing as spouses. We TRUST that although we ignor fundamental needs of our spouse that they won't react. THey won't hurt, they won't give up, they won't seek the healing balm from some place else.WE ARE WRONG!!! Reread your marriage vows. It doesn't say I will trust my W/H. It doesn't say that trust should replace forgiveness, kindness, understanding,...etc.Summertime you are wallowing in your despair. I suspect you are seriously depressed by all of this. Seek help. Try some medication. When your fog lifts you will see you are lying to your H even today. You are in this marriage "acting" happily married, but you are not. You H is trying because he believes there is hope for your marriage. You "know" differently and you are betraying him just as deeply as he betrayed you.The difference?? He was "strong" enough to face his failure and do his best to correct them. You?? You are running from your's and lying about it the whole way.Summertime, I have been very harsh with you. Not because I am mad at you or think less of you than others here. No! I see someone throwing away a good chunk of her life. I see someone who will never be happy again, but should be happy even now in the face of a terrible betrayal. I see someone lying to herself and her H, deceiving at the same level as her H.Summertime, I see a very hurt human being. And just as others see more than you think they do, I see that you need help in order to find your happiness. If I knew you personally and could talk with you daily perhaps I might be able to reach you. But I cannot,so I suggest that you see a counselor. Perhaps see one with your H and disucss your marriage. Your pain and love can be healed. They are after all very much the same thing.I will close by saying what I know means not so much to you, but it is my prayer for you.God Bless,JL

SummertimeI can't tell you how glad I am that you gave yourself a timeline of September 1. That's a good thing, because it will allow you some time to come to some resolve and peace about this all. We all at one point or another hate the word "time" and "patience." I still do sometimes. If you stick to that time table you have set then when you do make your final decision you will know that you have tried as much as you could.You mention counseling and that makes me pleased as well. I know my husband and I would have made our progress faster with some therapy from an uninvolved outside source.The stomach pain your refer to is so familiar to me. I and many others know exactly what you are saying. I can only tell you that gradually it will dissipate. Occasionally it will come back and hit you again but not with the constant that it is now. The good news is even those times it does come back it will be a little bit less intense that it was the times before.I posted on HGBrawner's thread to you too. I will repeat saying that you will be in my thoughts and prayers. No matter what your choice ends up being, you will survive. Thriving will totally depend on how you decide to take this journey. Either road can lead you to where you feel you want to be at this moment.I guess my point is, that when you choose to leave, if you have done all you can, then you will be able to face yourself in the mirror and know you have given it your best. No one can be expected to do more than that.As far as pitying yourself goes? I think everyone has done that here at one time or another. Although it may not be considered healthy by some, maybe it is a bit necessary for us. I have had several pity parties myself. They may not have made me feel better, but they minimally gave me the ability to see that I didn't want to stay in that place. They helped give me the drive to do what I had to do to move forward. Even though often it was at a snails pace. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I am still pulling for your healed marriage, but promise I and the others here on this board will support you no matter what your final choice is. If a few react negatively to you here, it is only their way of dealing with the very real issues in their lives.Please dear lady, keep us updated and in touch. ------------------ God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

With God on our side we can't lose! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

What God has joined together let no man put asunder. Samantha[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 24, 2001).]

DD was 12/23/2000I have been married to my wife for 12 years. We have two kids and we both work though we spend (and spent) plenty of time together because of our flexible schedules. My W's EA & PA lasted three months before I caught her (telephone recorder). The affair is finished now and has been for two months. It took her a couple weeks to come out of the fog, helped by the fact that OM was caught too (by me) and was a little stonger than my W.I forgave her and she re-committed herself to me. She wants to forget about it and move forward as I do. Problem is I am still crushed, still damaged, still think about it hourly. I struggle with the deception and the fact that if I hadn't caught her she woudld most likely still be having the affair. I'm shocked by her ability to lie, her complete disregard for anyone except herself (affair was with husband of *her* good friend). I forgave her because I love her and want to move forward, but because of the negativity I feel, I still have resentment toward her but rarely show it. Sometimes when we are doing things together, like gardening, she looks at me and and I can see the love she has for me in her eyes, and I can see that she is happy. I'm happy too,to be with her, and I tell her so, but in my minds eye or voice I think to my self "you f'ing lying b'ch". I feel like Dr. Jeckle - Mr. Hyde.To add fuel to the fire the OM and past friend (lives a block away), filed a restraining order (I'm a model citizen) against me for a few choice words I said to him . How ironic!! I feel like he should have to live in the bed he made for himself, live with his fear and insecurity and stop acting like the victom. Because I desparately want a good relationship with my W and want my life back I blame my negetivity on the restraing order, though my real feelings are based on the affair and their deception. I don't really care about the restraing order. My wife has expressed concern that I feel such hatred toward OM and it has been the source of most of our disagreement.When I first discovered the affair I felt very competitive. I wanted my wife at any cost and was willing to do anything to keep her. At this date after I seemed to have "won" (I ponder that word) I feel cocky and arrogant and feel like telling her "go have him", "go be with him and see how far you get".What I'm really leading up to is the fact that I feel that she commited the ultimate sin and instead of punishment, she has me, even better than before. The night before her work day I cook for her, a lunch, I get up with her @ 4am, I put her shoes on her while she does her hair, make them snug and tie them in double knots, I start her car 10 min. before she leaves for work, I leave *special* notes for her on her clipboard that she takes to work. And while it's true that she has done things for me (and OM!) I can't help but feel MOTED. I even picked out the color and colored her hair (yes, applied the solution too). Our relationship feels wonderful... But at my expense. Instead of being punished she is being pampered. It doesn't feel right.I write this letter especially for Summertime. ST, I see some of my feelings are like yours. I too feel like I don't know my spouse. I too feel like, how can I look this person in the eye and feel what I am supposed to feel, "you are my partner in life and are looking out for my best interest". ST, despite the fact that everyone here tells you, or seems to imply, that you "want" your husband, that you are trying to find a way to forgive him. Maybe you, like I, wonder "what's up", "how did this happen", "is it my fault". It's not our fault. ST you are not alone. Some days I hate my wife. Some days I feel like I should leave. But like you, I stay. Why?? ST, your H's affairt lasted for years, my W's only for months. I sympathise wih your negative feelings and don't balme you for feeling like it's over. Had my W's affair lasted 15 years I feel like I can say "it would be over". Before discovery I used to ask myslef "will my wife ever be with someone else?". Ironically, I asked that question while my W was having her affair. Doesn't life deal an awfull deck sometimes? Maybe I knew, which is why I bought the telephone recording device.Another irony: niehter my wife or I are spirtiual, we don't go to church. Remember DD was 12/23. On 12/9 I went to our local church and gave a check for $100 and asked that it be used to help families with christmas expenses, this is a first in my 32 years of life and I didn't tell my wife (right away) that I gave the donation. Soon after I catch my wife in A, a blessing or curse? Also ironic, OM goes to churse religiously. Makes me question the authenticity of church and god.

My goodness, I think this has turned into something quite different that jcook desired in the beginning. That's just the way it goes around here, though, one door leads to another and so on.... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

it_makes_me_crazy, Christians are not immune to sin....we are just as human as those who don't have a relationship with Christ. Churches are not havens for saints, they are hospitals for sinners. God isn't some angry being just watching and waiting to slam unsuspecting people...what you seem to imply by your story of giving at Christmas and then finding out about the affair. His love and compassion cannot be "bought" through works or giving money. God is a benevolent Father who wants more than anything for each person on earth to come to a saving knowledge of Him....to have a relationship with Him that will give them the peace and hope they desire. When anyone hardens their heart so much that they can't find empathy and compassion for their spouse, they are only hurting themselves. You and summertime have the free will to despise your spouses and leave them because of their betrayal....that is the choice every wounded spouse has. The problem is that the hatred and anger will go with you and you probably still won't find happiness. Your spouses probably will find happiness however....if they are truly remorseful and repentant, then they stand an excellent chance of rebuilding their lives and going on to a relationship where they will never be unfaithful again. Who is the loser in that scenario?Now I am the one being harsh and I try very hard never to be harsh here....I remember too well being in a place where I wasn't very lovable and how I was treated by the people who were supposed to be loving and supportive to me. IMMC, your feelings of frustration and anger and resentment are quite normal at the 6 week mark. You are still processing something that is old news to your wife. But I guarantee you that if you get outside of yourself long enough to really get honest with her and allow her the safety to get honest with you, you will find that she isn't doing as well as you think. The unfaithful spouse who is committed to healing their marriage is filled with self-loathing and self-doubt. They hide it quite well usually because it hurts too much to share it. They are also so intent on healing the marriage that they put on the best front they can to try to prove their love and commitment.I urge you to get into counseling....to seek help on how to deal with your anger and resentment in a healthy, non-destructive way. I also urge you to do what you suggested to summertime....to see your failings in your marriage....not as a way to accept blame for your wife's affair but to see that you are on an equal playing field. There is no sin worse than another....every wrong you have both done to the other is equal and you both have acceptance of blame and forgiving to do.It absolutely breaks my heart to see people in this terrible pain....I did experience it and I did experience many of the angry feelings you and summertime describe. The difference is that I didn't want to be that person...the one so filled with bitterness and hate that no one wanted to be around them. I wanted happiness and joy and forgiveness in my life. God gave me the ability to find those things and offer them to my husband and he offered them to me in return.Face your feelings and deal with them....release yourself from them and release your wife from them too. It won't happen overnight, but having the desire to do it is the first step on that journey.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

JL, your post was so interesting, because just this morning I was thinking if I could just take some responsility for the affair, maybe I could understand and heal.But I Can't. You are so wrong about me in your post. My husband was NEVER a superman. He was and is an emotionally challenged person. He came from a terrible family. Had no love and no support growing up. In truth he was an abandoned child. So I never expect great stuff from him in that sense. I was always there for him and tried my hardest to communicate. I tried very hard to always give him what he communicated to me he needed. I have been suffering from depression for about six years now. I realized this and offered him a divorce since I know I was not the woman he married. He said over and over and over the depression was just a bump in the road and we'd get through it. We had been together over 25 years and we'd be okay. But what he did to get through it was have an affair. Does my illness count as not being a good wife? I don't think so. I can't imagine how he'd be there for me if I came down with cancer! Well he won't be around for me to find. This board has helped me to realize our marriage is over. It takes more energy than I have to recover from an affair. I just hope I can recover enough so that I can go on. I won't be back anymore but thanks for all your thoughts and good wishes. S.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by HGBrawner: My goodness, I think this has turned into something quite different that jcook desired in the beginning. That's just the way it goes around here, though, one door leads to another and so on.... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

it_makes_me_crazy, Christians are not immune to sin....we are just as human as those who don't have a relationship with Christ. Churches are not havens for saints, they are hospitals for sinners. God isn't some angry being just watching and waiting to slam unsuspecting people...what you seem to imply by your story of giving at Christmas and then finding out about the affair. His love and compassion cannot be "bought" through works or giving money. God is a benevolent Father who wants more than anything for each person on earth to come to a saving knowledge of Him....to have a relationship with Him that will give them the peace and hope they desire. When anyone hardens their heart so much that they can't find empathy and compassion for their spouse, they are only hurting themselves. You and summertime have the free will to despise your spouses and leave them because of their betrayal....that is the choice every wounded spouse has. The problem is that the hatred and anger will go with you and you probably still won't find happiness. Your spouses probably will find happiness however....if they are truly remorseful and repentant, then they stand an excellent chance of rebuilding their lives and going on to a relationship where they will never be unfaithful again. Who is the loser in that scenario?Now I am the one being harsh and I try very hard never to be harsh here....I remember too well being in a place where I wasn't very lovable and how I was treated by the people who were supposed to be loving and supportive to me. IMMC, your feelings of frustration and anger and resentment are quite normal at the 6 week mark. You are still processing something that is old news to your wife. But I guarantee you that if you get outside of yourself long enough to really get honest with her and allow her the safety to get honest with you, you will find that she isn't doing as well as you think. The unfaithful spouse who is committed to healing their marriage is filled with self-loathing and self-doubt. They hide it quite well usually because it hurts too much to share it. They are also so intent on healing the marriage that they put on the best front they can to try to prove their love and commitment.I urge you to get into counseling....to seek help on how to deal with your anger and resentment in a healthy, non-destructive way. I also urge you to do what you suggested to summertime....to see your failings in your marriage....not as a way to accept blame for your wife's affair but to see that you are on an equal playing field. There is no sin worse than another....every wrong you have both done to the other is equal and you both have acceptance of blame and forgiving to do.It absolutely breaks my heart to see people in this terrible pain....I did experience it and I did experience many of the angry feelings you and summertime describe. The difference is that I didn't want to be that person...the one so filled with bitterness and hate that no one wanted to be around them. I wanted happiness and joy and forgiveness in my life. God gave me the ability to find those things and offer them to my husband and he offered them to me in return.Face your feelings and deal with them....release yourself from them and release your wife from them too. It won't happen overnight, but having the desire to do it is the first step on that journey.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"God isn't some angry being just watching and waiting to slam unsuspecting people...what you seem to imply by your story of giving at Christmas and then finding out about the affair."No, you're wrong. I was simply pointing out irony. "is love and compassion cannot be "bought" through works or giving money."Again sorry. I wasn't buying anything. Only trying to share my (small) financial prosparity. Remember at the time I knew nothing of the affair. "God is a benevolent Father who wants more than anything for each person on earth to come to a saving knowledge of Him....to have a relationship with Him that will give them the peace and hope they desire.""When anyone hardens their heart so much that they can't find empathy and compassion for their spouse, they are only hurting themselves. You and summertime have the free will to despise your spouses and leave them because of their betrayal...."Let me remind you of something... I'm haven't hardened my heart as you put it. I'M HURT, I'VE BEEN TRASHED AND CHEATED ON!. You and your god may call it what you want but the pain I feel is just as real as the pain you would would feel had you been betrayed. You may call it "hardened" but my words are "hurt" and "devistation"."that is the choice every wounded spouse has. The problem is that the hatred and anger will go with you and you probably still won't find happiness. Your spouses probably will find happiness however"With this statement you bring a *very* sour tatse to my mouth... Sister. You see, I wasn't the one that brought betrayal to my family... Don't you get it? Of coarse I'm bitter, isn't that what god wanted me to be? Did god want me to to just "forget about it"? I think not. Which is why, in your book, I feel so terrible, because my wife commited one of the worst sins. My feelings and attitude have nothing to do with your god, they are a human feeling.And what on gods green earth makes you think that my wife would find hapiness elsewhere? Go read the statitics and see how frequently an affair becomes a happy relationship... While you're at it go smoke another bole of the crack you're on."....if they are truly remorseful and repentant, then they stand an excellent chance of rebuilding their lives and going on to a relationship where they will never be unfaithful again. Who is the loser in that scenario?"It's only been eight weeks... I can't wait to feel better... TRUST ME! Are you ensinuating that if I went to church and gave my life to your lord that I would feel better... FASTER? "IMMC, your feelings of frustration and anger and resentment are quite normal at the 6 week mark."Who are you to make these stements? BTW - thanks for your comfort, I feel better already."You are still processing something that is old news to your wife. But I guarantee you that if you get outside of yourself long enough to really get honest with her and allow her the safety to get honest with you, you will find that she isn't doing as well as you think."Let me tell you. W has confessed to me many ugly things (ugly to me), she has a free forum to tell me things and has. And yes, during hte immediate weeks following A, she confessed her hurt that her affair was over, her longing for OM, her sexual things she did, ETC. Is that enough for you? I don't force her to hide anything, like you think I do. In fact, at one point I held her, in bed, while she cried for her loss, and reminded her that I was there for her, despite her tears were for someone else.You are so insensitive and I feel it's because I don't kneel before the same god you do. What a shame! " The unfaithful spouse who is committed to healing their marriage is filled with self-loathing and self-doubt. They hide it quite well usually because it hurts too much to share it."Read above statement. "They are also so intent on healing the marriage that they put on the best front they can to try to prove their love and commitment."How do you know so much about my wife?"I urge you to get into counseling....to seek help on how to deal with your anger and resentment in a healthy, non-destructive way. I also urge you to do what you suggested to summertime....to see your failings in your marriage....not as a way to accept blame for your wife's affair but to see that you are on an equal playing field. There is no sin worse than another....every wrong you have both done to the other is equal and you both have acceptance of blame and forgiving to do."Yes, I agree."It absolutely breaks my heart to see people in this terrible pain....I did experience it and I did experience many of the angry feelings you and summertime describe. The difference is that I didn't want to be that person...the one so filled with bitterness and hate that no one wanted to be around them. I wanted happiness and joy and forgiveness in my life. God gave me the ability to find those things and offer them to my husband and he offered them to me in return."Different strokes... People deal with things on their own time table. You sound as though you're indifferent to any solution that you wouldn't do yourself. I think you need a lesson in DIVERSITY!!

Hello, Been married almost 20 years. H had A last year. He was going to leave me for the OW, but she turned him down. They had May 5th for her to decide if she was going to leave her 10 year live in which she had a 3 year affiar with him before he left his family for her. Well my H was ready to go. I found out about the A March 18, 2000. He only got meaner and nastier to me. I lived through the torment of knowing about their deadline. It about killed me. He never left home. But he travels for a living so he was and is gone quite a bit. She would not leave her live in. They professed their love for each other on that day. They stayed in contact all last summer until Oct when I called her up!! So much for recovery. I feel like leftover garbage. My H told me if she called he would say "sorry, you had your chance, and blew it." Now I am supposed to feel better about that??? We will nto make it. I can not handle this. To old for this crap. He also left his first wife the same way. The man needs help. 53 and needs to learn new tricks.------------------ Deb

HGBrawner:I'm truly sorry for the bowl of crack reference I made. It was out of line and inapropriate.I do however mean the other things I said and look forward to your reponse.

immc You seem oblivious to the fact that I was also betrayed by an affair too. Whether you chose to believe it or not I do understand the pain and anger you feel. I felt it too...and in just as an intense way as you do. The difference is that I am 3 years past it now and have a clearer perspective than when I was in the middle of it. It makes no difference in my life if you accept my God and the healing He offers you....you have the free will to do as you chose. I know that my path to healing was hastened by my faith and trust in Him. It didn't happen overnight and it wasn't some "magical fairy dust" experience, but He made the difference in where I was headed and where I am now. He has made and continues to make the difference in my life and in my marriage.You can use all the sarcasm and ugly remarks you want in posting a response to me. I have not and will not be drawn into a war of words. This board exists to offer comfort and help to those who are in pain and want to heal. Sometimes those of us who have been here longer and have a clearer perspective give each other a little "kick in the pants"...not in an effort to hurt but to help someone begin moving in a positive direction. My presence here is only because I believe I have something of value to offer and have been assured of that many times by other posters here...if it isn't valuable to you then please don't bother to read it....I won't lose one bit of sleep over it.I hope you find what you are looking for.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

It makes much more sense and feels more sincere when you use yourself as an example with god. I shared with you a tiny bit of my life and some of the most bitter feelings I have. When you took those thoughts I shared and applied your religion to them it felt patronizing. I see now that you meant no harm.Maybe religion is a sore subject for me. I've been to church several times with a reasonably open mind but never felt compelled to make it a permanent part of my life. I believe a person should be free to choose and practice any religion they choose and expect the same freedom from others.You may not have said it directly and I may have been reading between the lines but I gathered that you were saying without gods guidance I would never make it through this tough time.

Hi, My husband and I had been married for over 22 years when he first became involved with another woman. He confessed the relationship to me about six months after it started. However, continued the illicit relationship for another ten months without my knowledge. We have actually been honestly recovering for almost eight months.Some aspects of our marriage have improved during the past few months. We have better communication, and I have learned to "fight fair". He has stopped being such an intense conflict avoider, and is much more open and honest. I know without a doubt that my husband loves and appreciates me much more than he ever has, and no longer takes me for granted.However, the hurt and pain his affair have caused is still between us, and our sex life has certainly suffered. Trust and respect for him is gone, and the suffering that has been inflicted on our children is probably the most horrible part of the affair.I honestly believe that without God and the excellent counseling we have received from Steve Harley our marriage would have failed. Instead it has survived and is slowly and surely getting better each day.Peppermint

Many people make it through crises without God in their lives. Do I understand how? Honestly, no I don't....I can't begin to imagine any part of my life without Him. All I can talk about is what I know to be true and I know that my life and my marriage would not be what they are today without God at the center of both. I don't say that to offend or be patronizing....it is simply what I know to be true from my personal experience.If you found my earlier post patronizing, I am truly sorry. In the 2 1/2 years I have been posting here, I have worked very hard to think through what I write and to try to be compassionate and caring while remaining honest. The pain an affair brings into the life of the wounded spouse is indescribable....I would never want to add to it.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

HG, Amen to that. I would not have made it through the Physical and mental abuse and subsequent death of my 1st H without God in my life. I would not have made it through my H A without God, it just explains so much doesn't it? It is the only explanation for everything, to me. As a Christian we either believe in God, or Satan. Satan sure does slip in when were not paying attention. My H wasn't and he had an A. He calls the OW "She Devil" she is not a Christian, my H is.------------------ Deb

We've been married 7 years when he had the affair 2 1/2 years ago. We had been together 9 years at that point. I agree that the affair didn't make our marriage "BETTER" but that at that point we made choices that made our marriage better than it ever has been and that those choices were by products of the affair. I strongly believe that as people we need to choose to make our marriages work, that the lack of choice, that the apathy we feel toward our marriages during the tribulations of an affair are something we must rise up against and then "choose" to make our marriages the best things in our lives. Just MHO, take it or leave it! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ Chick's BrenYou won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far.My original intent was to receive enough positive responses to serve as encouragement for my wife and myself. It is nice to see such a broad range of experiences. We are only 2 weeks from DD, and have a long way to go to rebuild the trust. My wife has given me something I probably don't deserve - a chance. I'm taking it very seriously.Something I could use input on is how to help her with the nightmares (of me being with the OW, and me leaving). Any ideas? We are in individual counseling, and hopefully will be counselled together very soon.I'd like to share a thought with you all...When she mentioned to me about us having hit rock bottom this time, I told her "yes, but we choose to bounce". This will work.Thanks again.

jcook Congratulations on your decision to rebuild your marriage. You see from what has been shared here that it isn't easy, but from my own personal experience I can tell you that it can be done.As for the nightmares.....encourage your wife to share them with you in as much detail as she is willing and able to do. I would suggest you just listen and offer comfort, don't confirm or deny that what she is dreaming really happened. It would be good for her to discuss them with her therapist as well. When we sleep our defenses are down and many times our dreams are how we deal with things we can't deal with in a waking state. Obviously your wife has your affair on her mind and her imagination is working over time.Since you are so very early in the recovery process, her dreams are quite normal. You might show her the chapter in the book After the Affair by Janis Spring that lists the physiological effects of the revelation of an affair on the wounded spouse. I imagine that she isn't eating well either and that she is having trouble concentrating. These symptoms...this is a real physical trauma as well as an emotional one....will get better in the coming days and weeks. They will improve with the therapy and time, but they will also improve even more quickly with your total support of your wife. I know it is hard, but the more you can allow her to place the weight of her pain, sorrow and anger on you, the more you build trust and show her your commitment to your marriage.I also highly recommend the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder for both of you to read. It is wonderful and has chapters for each of you to read that can help you understand the process you are both going through right now. And, of course, I encourage you to consider seeking God and allowing Him to lead you through this valley. My husband and I are living the miracle of restoration that He brought us to.------------------ "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

My H and I have been married 8yrs. The A happened after the 7yr mark and was on again off again for about 1yr. We are coming up on 1yr of recovery and boy has it been a ride. I understand all the pain and sorrow, all the fear and anger, and all the shattered dreams. My H and I did have a great relationship before hand. I also can look back and feel I have been a good W, my H often said I was everything he has or could ever want. I think perhaps that was one of the hurdles was that it was almost too good. I mean we married young but we both wanted it. We both got good jobs- got a house and a beautiful child, and I think we really got spoiled. Looking back I too was the giver in the relationship and I took on the role of making my H happy. Well then life hit, as it is bound to do. I lost my father and my H was not really there to support me. I withdrew and I this caused, I believe, fear in my H. My H too had a very hard childhood and came into our relationship very needed. I tried to fill that void but this could never replace the true need that HE needed to fill. The same goes for me. I have always be alone and I always wanted one true person to be there for me always- my H filled this hole. We filled each other but we never healed ourselves so it was only a temporary fix. My H has always said that he never felt good enough- and there was no way I could change this no matter what I said or did. He too felt the A was about the desire to destroy his life- the life he just felt he did not deserve. He has often states that what he got from OW was the feeling of being better than someone. He could help her because she was so needed and he liked feeling superior. This I could not give him. It is horribly sad but I do think it is something he just had to experience for himself. He did not know what he really wanted out of life - he did not even really know himself. Yes I wish he could have done it through a thought process, counseling or prayer- but he had to hit his own bottom in his own way. For me it has been such a long hard journey- why because I to was very lost. Summertime I too thought as you did, I did not think I could stay but I never felt at peace with it. We separated twice and often times I felt in such despair that I wanted it to just end. However, I realized that ending my marriage would not end my pain, fear, anger or despair. That stinks but it is true. Healing needed to occur and yes I could have done it on my own, but not as deeply. Why, simply because it is easier. If my H and I split I know I would have easily used him as an escape goat to project my anger. I hated feeling bad and sad and I blamed him for this because he caused it- or did he? Yes he caused me pain but I it also stirred up all the residual pain and self doubt I already had. I felt so ugly why? well I blamed my H. Yes an A causes allot of self-esteem issue but I had allot to begin with, yet for so long I was able to cover them up and not deal with it. So perhaps some of the anger and hurt you feel is because your H's A has brought allot of your own issues to the surface and you just don't want to deal with them. You can leave, but they are still there- lingering waiting for the next event in life to call them out. This is getting a long-winded so I will go now. I guess my main point was that this has been the hardest two years of my life but also the most productive as far a discovery and personal growth. I have always been a perfectionist and I have very high standards. This is a blessing but can also be a curse. I am moral but if I am judgmental I lose. Me I lose! If I am loving but unforgiving again I lose. I think that there are times to leave, especially if the other person is not doing their part. The second time we separated I was ready. I had tried, my H tried also but was I knew we were on different paths- as he was still drinking. I told him I could live with an alcoholic but not an active one- so I let him go and I felt at peace. However I did not up at file for divorce, instead I gave myself a time limit of 4 months to really work on myself and again know I had done MY part. Well, my H went to AA and has made many many profound changes- on his own. So now we are together again working on a marriage that meets each other's needs but is not made of two needed people. So I think for the BS the struggle is not just about the A but about having to really face ourselves- that is just plain tough Both my H and I have struggled but it is nice to reap the rewards together. Just the other day my daughter said for the first time "I hate you" Wow that really hurt. She is a child and struggling with hurt feelings. Do I know she loves me- of course. Do I still love her- of course. But this act hurt and it caused me to question myself as a mother. I realized I probably scared her when I raised my voice - so I will work on control- but I also realize she needed to be told no and to deal with it- it all apart of life and learning and we never stop doing it.joyful

My H and I have been together 19 years. My H's affair started in early December 2000 with a much younger employee with whom he had been close friends for aboout 3 years since he began crying on her shoulder during my treatment for breast cancer. My H was angry at me for writing in my journal about an old lover from 25 yrs ago (in regards to problems with our sex life) and moved out at the same time she moved out from her H. It quickly turned from EA to PA. It was such an unlikely relationship that it was only a matter of time before it would end, which didn't make it any easier for me with the rest of our 30 employees knowing all to many of the details, etc. My H finally ended it less than 3 weeks ago, saying that he was looking to her for the things he wanted from me. Several days ago, OW left town with her D. Since her H is here, she will probably have to come back, unfortunately. She had been paging my H all day long up until she left, so with her gone I've finally been breathing easier.I believe our marriage will survive, but I'm still feeling kind of shell shocked, not quite sure how I feel. Thanks, jcook for this topic, it was helpful for me as well since we're in about the same stage of recovery as you are.