immc<BR>You seem oblivious to the fact that I was also betrayed by an affair too. Whether you chose to believe it or not I do understand the pain and anger you feel. I felt it too...and in just as an intense way as you do. The difference is that I am 3 years past it now and have a clearer perspective than when I was in the middle of it. It makes no difference in my life if you accept my God and the healing He offers you....you have the free will to do as you chose. I know that my path to healing was hastened by my faith and trust in Him. It didn't happen overnight and it wasn't some "magical fairy dust" experience, but He made the difference in where I was headed and where I am now. He has made and continues to make the difference in my life and in my marriage.<P>You can use all the sarcasm and ugly remarks you want in posting a response to me. I have not and will not be drawn into a war of words. This board exists to offer comfort and help to those who are in pain and want to heal. Sometimes those of us who have been here longer and have a clearer perspective give each other a little "kick in the pants"...not in an effort to hurt but to help someone begin moving in a positive direction. My presence here is only because I believe I have something of value to offer and have been assured of that many times by other posters here...if it isn't valuable to you then please don't bother to read it....I won't lose one bit of sleep over it.<P>I hope you find what you are looking for.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

It makes much more sense and feels more sincere when you use yourself as an example with god. I shared with you a tiny bit of my life and some of the most bitter feelings I have. When you took those thoughts I shared and applied your religion to them it felt patronizing. I see now that you meant no harm.<P>Maybe religion is a sore subject for me. I've been to church several times with a reasonably open mind but never felt compelled to make it a permanent part of my life. I believe a person should be free to choose and practice any religion they choose and expect the same freedom from others.<P>You may not have said it directly and I may have been reading between the lines but I gathered that you were saying without gods guidance I would never make it through this tough time.<P>

Hi,<BR>My husband and I had been married for over 22 years when he first became involved with another woman. He confessed the relationship to me about six months after it started. However, continued the illicit relationship for another ten months without my knowledge. We have actually been honestly recovering for almost eight months.<P>Some aspects of our marriage have improved during the past few months. We have better communication, and I have learned to "fight fair". He has stopped being such an intense conflict avoider, and is much more open and honest. I know without a doubt that my husband loves and appreciates me much more than he ever has, and no longer takes me for granted.<P>However, the hurt and pain his affair have caused is still between us, and our sex life has certainly suffered. Trust and respect for him is gone, and the suffering that has been inflicted on our children is probably the most horrible part of the affair.<P>I honestly believe that without God and the excellent counseling we have received from Steve Harley our marriage would have failed. Instead it has survived and is slowly and surely getting better each day.<P>Peppermint

Many people make it through crises without God in their lives. Do I understand how? Honestly, no I don't....I can't begin to imagine any part of my life without Him. All I can talk about is what I know to be true and I know that my life and my marriage would not be what they are today without God at the center of both. I don't say that to offend or be patronizing....it is simply what I know to be true from my personal experience.<P>If you found my earlier post patronizing, I am truly sorry. In the 2 1/2 years I have been posting here, I have worked very hard to think through what I write and to try to be compassionate and caring while remaining honest. The pain an affair brings into the life of the wounded spouse is indescribable....I would never want to add to it.<P><P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

HG,<P> Amen to that. I would not have made it through the Physical and mental abuse and subsequent death of my 1st H without God in my life.<P> I would not have made it through my H A without God, it just explains so much doesn't it? It is the only explanation for everything, to me. As a Christian we either believe in God, or Satan. Satan sure does slip in when were not paying attention. My H wasn't and he had an A. He calls the OW "She Devil" she is not a Christian, my H is.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

We've been married 7 years when he had the affair 2 1/2 years ago. We had been together 9 years at that point. I agree that the affair didn't make our marriage "BETTER" but that at that point we made choices that made our marriage better than it ever has been and that those choices were by products of the affair. I strongly believe that as people we need to choose to make our marriages work, that the lack of choice, that the apathy we feel toward our marriages during the tribulations of an affair are something we must rise up against and then "choose" to make our marriages the best things in our lives. Just MHO, take it or leave it! <P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far.<P>My original intent was to receive enough positive responses to serve as encouragement for my wife and myself. It is nice to see such a broad range of experiences. We are only 2 weeks from DD, and have a long way to go to rebuild the trust. My wife has given me something I probably don't deserve - a chance. I'm taking it very seriously.<P>Something I could use input on is how to help her with the nightmares (of me being with the OW, and me leaving). Any ideas? We are in individual counseling, and hopefully will be counselled together very soon.<P>I'd like to share a thought with you all...<P>When she mentioned to me about us having hit rock bottom this time, I told her "yes, but we choose to bounce". This will work.<P>Thanks again.

jcook<BR>Congratulations on your decision to rebuild your marriage. You see from what has been shared here that it isn't easy, but from my own personal experience I can tell you that it can be done.<P>As for the nightmares.....encourage your wife to share them with you in as much detail as she is willing and able to do. I would suggest you just listen and offer comfort, don't confirm or deny that what she is dreaming really happened. It would be good for her to discuss them with her therapist as well. When we sleep our defenses are down and many times our dreams are how we deal with things we can't deal with in a waking state. Obviously your wife has your affair on her mind and her imagination is working over time.<P>Since you are so very early in the recovery process, her dreams are quite normal. You might show her the chapter in the book After the Affair by Janis Spring that lists the physiological effects of the revelation of an affair on the wounded spouse. I imagine that she isn't eating well either and that she is having trouble concentrating. These symptoms...this is a real physical trauma as well as an emotional one....will get better in the coming days and weeks. They will improve with the therapy and time, but they will also improve even more quickly with your total support of your wife. I know it is hard, but the more you can allow her to place the weight of her pain, sorrow and anger on you, the more you build trust and show her your commitment to your marriage.<P>I also highly recommend the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder for both of you to read. It is wonderful and has chapters for each of you to read that can help you understand the process you are both going through right now. And, of course, I encourage you to consider seeking God and allowing Him to lead you through this valley. My husband and I are living the miracle of restoration that He brought us to.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

My H and I have been married 8yrs. The A happened after the 7yr mark and was on again off again for about 1yr. We are coming up on 1yr of recovery and boy has it been a ride. I understand all the pain and sorrow, all the fear and anger, and all the shattered dreams. My H and I did have a great relationship before hand. I also can look back and feel I have been a good W, my H often said I was everything he has or could ever want. I think perhaps that was one of the hurdles was that it was almost too good. I mean we married young but we both wanted it. We both got good jobs- got a house and a beautiful child, and I think we really got spoiled. Looking back I too was the giver in the relationship and I took on the role of making my H happy. Well then life hit, as it is bound to do. I lost my father and my H was not really there to support me. I withdrew and I this caused, I believe, fear in my H. My H too had a very hard childhood and came into our relationship very needed. I tried to fill that void but this could never replace the true need that HE needed to fill. The same goes for me. I have always be alone and I always wanted one true person to be there for me always- my H filled this hole. We filled each other but we never healed ourselves so it was only a temporary fix. My H has always said that he never felt good enough- and there was no way I could change this no matter what I said or did. He too felt the A was about the desire to destroy his life- the life he just felt he did not deserve. He has often states that what he got from OW was the feeling of being better than someone. He could help her because she was so needed and he liked feeling superior. This I could not give him. It is horribly sad but I do think it is something he just had to experience for himself. He did not know what he really wanted out of life - he did not even really know himself. Yes I wish he could have done it through a thought process, counseling or prayer- but he had to hit his own bottom in his own way. <BR>For me it has been such a long hard journey- why because I to was very lost. Summertime I too thought as you did, I did not think I could stay but I never felt at peace with it. We separated twice and often times I felt in such despair that I wanted it to just end. However, I realized that ending my marriage would not end my pain, fear, anger or despair. That stinks but it is true. Healing needed to occur and yes I could have done it on my own, but not as deeply. Why, simply because it is easier. If my H and I split I know I would have easily used him as an escape goat to project my anger. I hated feeling bad and sad and I blamed him for this because he caused it- or did he? Yes he caused me pain but I it also stirred up all the residual pain and self doubt I already had. I felt so ugly why? well I blamed my H. Yes an A causes allot of self-esteem issue but I had allot to begin with, yet for so long I was able to cover them up and not deal with it. So perhaps some of the anger and hurt you feel is because your H's A has brought allot of your own issues to the surface and you just don't want to deal with them. You can leave, but they are still there- lingering waiting for the next event in life to call them out. This is getting a long-winded so I will go now. I guess my main point was that this has been the hardest two years of my life but also the most productive as far a discovery and personal growth. I have always been a perfectionist and I have very high standards. This is a blessing but can also be a curse. I am moral but if I am judgmental I lose. Me I lose! If I am loving but unforgiving again I lose. <BR>I think that there are times to leave, especially if the other person is not doing their part. The second time we separated I was ready. I had tried, my H tried also but was I knew we were on different paths- as he was still drinking. I told him I could live with an alcoholic but not an active one- so I let him go and I felt at peace. However I did not up at file for divorce, instead I gave myself a time limit of 4 months to really work on myself and again know I had done MY part. Well, my H went to AA and has made many many profound changes- on his own. So now we are together again working on a marriage that meets each other's needs but is not made of two needed people. <BR>So I think for the BS the struggle is not just about the A but about having to really face ourselves- that is just plain tough Both my H and I have struggled but it is nice to reap the rewards together. <BR>Just the other day my daughter said for the first time "I hate you" Wow that really hurt. She is a child and struggling with hurt feelings. Do I know she loves me- of course. Do I still love her- of course. But this act hurt and it caused me to question myself as a mother. I realized I probably scared her when I raised my voice - so I will work on control- but I also realize she needed to be told no and to deal with it- it all apart of life and learning and we never stop doing it.<P>joyful <BR>

My H and I have been together 19 years. My H's affair started in early December 2000 with a much younger employee with whom he had been close friends for aboout 3 years since he began crying on her shoulder during my treatment for breast cancer. My H was angry at me for writing in my journal about an old lover from 25 yrs ago (in regards to problems with our sex life) and moved out at the same time she moved out from her H. It quickly turned from EA to PA. It was such an unlikely relationship that it was only a matter of time before it would end, which didn't make it any easier for me with the rest of our 30 employees knowing all to many of the details, etc. My H finally ended it less than 3 weeks ago, saying that he was looking to her for the things he wanted from me. Several days ago, OW left town with her D. Since her H is here, she will probably have to come back, unfortunately. She had been paging my H all day long up until she left, so with her gone I've finally been breathing easier.<P>I believe our marriage will survive, but I'm still feeling kind of shell shocked, not quite sure how I feel. Thanks, jcook for this topic, it was helpful for me as well since we're in about the same stage of recovery as you are.