Help - Plan A with ongoing affair - Marriage Builders® Forums

I'm sorry I can't go into too many details... but I am wondering if anyone here has actually had much success in using Plan A in the face of repeated lies about ongoing A. My WW has continued her A despite me catching her a few months ago (D-day No. 2 with the same guy), her writing a "no contact" letter to OM (I delivered it), and me doing a tremendous Plan A for the past six months (she has told me several times that she can't think of anything I could possibly be doing better and that her life appears to be "perfect"). Yet, I know she resumed contacting the OM about a week after D-day No.2 earlier this year (they talk several times a day at a minimum). She has been telling me that there has been zero contact and she "promised" to tell me if there was any contact when we decided to try harder after D-day No.2.I am still Plan A'ing my little but off, but I don't know if I am just fooling myself. At this point, I fear they may have actually been in contact nonstop for the past year even though she told me it had been an accidental meeting just a couple months before I caught her (which I NOW know is untrue but didn't on D-day No.2).Help please... my heart is breaking... and I don't know how long I can continue pouring out my love to her knowing that she is talking to and meeting him all the time.

bump... sorry, really need help here.

Conan: I feel your pain. I don't know that I can really offer much in advice here, but I am sure there are others who will. I just wanted to let you know your cries are heard, and I feel for you. I hope that one day, soon, your WW sees what it is that she is risking and realize it's not worth risking. I pray for you and your success. Keep working on you. Take care.

^^BUMP^^Come on group - let's help him out.

Conan,
So very very sorry, you were a big help to me I wish I could pay you back. Have you and your wife tried Retrouvaille? My wife said that after going through that it made it "impossible" to go back to the A. Reminded me of something alcoholics say about AA, it ruins drinking. Maybe you could give it a shot. It is run by Caothloic church but is non-denominational program, I am not religious and liked it very much. Hang in there, will you?Jack

Conan,
I'm in EXACTLY your same situation, and I've gotten some good ideas and feedback on my thread "Affairs that don't end...confused...HELP"; maybe you can start there, and we can share some of the information and run it by each other and help each other find solutions...

Jack, I have not heard of that, though I recall you mentioning it. Where can I get info on it? I am practicing Catholic, but my WW gets the hives if you mention the church... LOL.Spacecase, I saw we were in similar circumstances... sorry to hear that. I will look at your thread some more.Tutter, thanks for the "call to the troups"! :-)

Conan, I really relate to what you are going through. My wife continued active A for at least 2 months after D-Day, KNOWING that I was tracking her every move, lying about her activities, etc.I too was "Plan A'ing my butt off", as you say, and the pain seemed unbearable. You say you are a man of Faith? Great!! That is all that kept me going.Some tips:

Don't snoop too much as the details that get revealed to you may be too hard to ever forget. I made this mistake and now I am haunted by erotic e-mails, IM sessions, professions of undying love, cutting remarks about me, etc. Only time is healing my of that pain.
let go and let God, to a certain extent. You can't control WW's behavior, only your own. Unless and until your love bank gets so low there's nothing left, continue Plan A. I can tell you, and others here know it by my posts, that I am very impatient and this seems like the hardest thing in the world. But patience will pay off!
If you have children, get involved in their life! That is also a good way to deflect the captive thoughts of A and OM. It also shows your WW that you care about the family.
Most A's die a natural death in 6 months to 2 yrs after exposure. You probably know this from reading SAA. In my case it took only about 3 1/2 months from D-Day before my WW began to lose interest in talking to or seeing OM when she began to get most of what she was seeking from me. Yet, prior to that, they were talking about marriage, future plans together, getting me to accept it all, etc. I thought I had no chance to recapture my wife's love.

In any event, there are many good people here to support you and help you through this. This forum has been my lifeline. God Bless you.[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Boppo57 ]

I agree with Boppo about the snooping...you know it's going on, knoweing EXACTLY what goes on is not necessary, and it does bring a lot of pain and very nasty flashbacks...not recommended.
Also, at least in my experience, every time my sbnooping was caught (and it's very hard for it not to be because you WILL bring it up in your converastions) it'll be a major LB.
Best to Plan A, have faith, find the "little" good things to think about even if they are really very little, and keep moving forward.
Take care of yourself, try to find those things which make you better, and give it the time it needs.

Conan,Speaking as a WW I can see your wife has the best of both worlds which makes it even harder to end A. I should know because I went through that stage myself. It was extremely difficult to break the A and not to ever contact OM again, infact I'm still in withdrawal, however not contact since Jan.29/02. Your wife says your M is perfect and there is nothing you can do to improve it. So then what does she get from the A?? OM must be giving her something that is still missing from the M. If you can somehow find out what that is you can start winning the battle and eventually the war!Good Luck!Brianna

Not a problem Conan. I feel you pain as if it were my husband. I have come a long way now, and it hurts to see someone else going through what I put my husband through. I feel for you.What Brianna said makes sense. However, be cautious as to not COMPARE yourself to the OM. Know this - YOU ARE THE BETTER MAN. You know this, and one day your WW will too - here's hoping it's not too late for her. Yes, she has the best of both worlds right now, but that will end. What is she getting out of the A? I would venture to say that at least part of it has to do with the fact that this borrowed time with the OM has created a fantasy that takes her away from the realities of life (cleaning, cooking, kids [if you have any], etc.). However, one day she will start to try to see how the OM fits into reality (in her mind) and realize that he DOESN'T. Key here is for you to keep a good head, keep doing the good job you are at Plan A, and keep working on you. I will offer you my salutation quote - here, to really bring your attention to it: Be true, stay strong, but remember it's ok to feel weak sometimes. And yes, this place is a wonderful helping hand. You are doing fine. Take care.

Conan,I can truly understand your pain since your WW did go back to the OM. I know this all seems frustrating and very discouraging but you must hang in there. I to lived the double life and the OM always asked if I wasn't happy with my M then why not just end it? One of the reasons was that I still cared for my H very much and felt there may be something left to salvage. I'm grateful to the OM for showing his true colours and showing me that my H was the better man all along! What is your marital history? Does your wife rely on you for financial support? If she really loved the OM she would have left by now, but something is holding her back. Whether she has some doubts about OM or sad to say, she is to comfortable with the life you have made for her.Good Luck.Brianna

Brianna,My friends have told me she just has too good to want to leave. She lives in a million dollar home, works only when she wants to (hasn't at all for 6 months), 2 kids go to school/daycare everyday, I take care of the kids at least equal to her time, go on date nights with her every weekend with a sitter taking care of kids, etc.You asked what she is getting out of the affair... I haven't a clue and I have spent a lot of time thinking about it. The only thing I can imagine is the sick thrill of sneaking around or, like Tutter said, the fantasy life they imagine they are living without responsibility.

It seems as thought your WW has the best of both worlds and since there is only one that you can take away there may come a time that Plan B will be very useful to you. Do not think that Plan A is your only option. With an ongoing A, Plan B works very well with a well done Plan A preceeding it. Your WW has obviously noticed the Plan A efforts so when you start to feel those love units pouring from your bank please do not hesitate to jump into Plan B.

Conan:From your description, and feedback from others, maybe what you need to do is go to plan B, but only if you can face DV if that's what your WW decides. Doesn't sound like she's willing to lose what she has with you. As someone said to me a while ago, maybe your W just needs to crash and burn to be shaken back into the real world. If she's comfortable with the things the way they are, this might be the only way to force her to choose her family or the OM. Is OM married? If so, the A has a greater chance of ending if you go to plan B. If not, it might just drive her to him. But then they'd have to live "real life" together, and that would probably fail when she came to grips with what she gave up for him. It'd be more painful for you while that was happening.In the end, remember though that Plan B should only be done once you've done your best Plan A AND you are ready for the prospect of divorce if it doesn't wake her up.Hang in there!

Conan,I would strongly urge you to use the phone counseling here at MB (888-639-1639). Steve and Jenn Harley are very good at motivating and teaching the intricacies of Plan A (and B), and they can be invaluable during the transition of a separation.One thing I have written (a long, long time ago) is that I did a pretty effective Plan A while my wife was in an affair. But---I had no idea that it was effective UNTIL I had transitioned to Plan B, and the affair began to unravel. If you have been truly effective in your Plan A efforts (and have established the "consistent track record" that Steve loves to harp about... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ), then my guess is that you're probably getting close to transitioning to Plan B. One of the things that helped guide me to Plan B was that I felt like this: <blockquote>quote:<hr>Help please... my heart is breaking... and I don't know how long I can continue pouring out my love to her knowing that she is talking to and meeting him all the time. <hr></blockquote>You're going to need to remove yourself from this situation before the sadness you feel turns to hate (and then disinterest)---at that point, there will be little that will save your marriage.If you live in a million dollar house, you can afford a call to the Harleys. Do it---no excuses.

K:"If you live in a million dollar house, you can afford a call to the Harleys. Do it---no excuses."No disrespect intended, but this isn't necessarily true. Our house COST us about a third of that, but it's going to cost over a Mil to rebuild since the fire. Having that kind of house can be a burden, if your income can't handle it. Sure, we can pay the mortgage and do lots of other things, but watering the yard alone costs about $400/mo during the summer. Sorry this is off topic. In a way, this kind of thing can have a big effect on the ability to go to plan B, though. In our case, we need to communicate almost daily with each other and the contractor, to make sure the house is rebuilt in the right fashion. If I go to plan b before the work's done, I would have a tough time doing plan b correctly. Are lives are almost too complicated right now for that, but make no mistake, I won't put up with OM contact forever. In fact, my Plan A deadline falls right in the middle of this one-year rebuilding ET. I will have to plan carefully how I want to deal with the property, if I have to go to plan B in 6 months.persevere, all!

K - I will make the call, thanks for the little push in that direction. You are right, I can afford it... but what is to become of my polo pony? LOL2long - you are right that the "burn rate" of living in a big house is rarified air. There is no way my WW would ever be able to stay in the house even if she completely devastated me in a divorce (and that would not happen) due to the amount of money a bigger house burns through, excluding the mortgage, taxes and insurance. By the way, sorry to hear about the fire... that is scary stuff.

K, judging by your member number and what I've read from you here, it sounds like your experience would be very helpful to me. Would you mind checking out my thread "Affairs that don't end...confused...help"?No disrespect to Conan intruding here...just trying to gather all the feedback which has been so helpful...

<blockquote>quote:<hr>but what is to become of my polo pony? LOL<hr></blockquote>Glue???(I have two horses, so please don't take offense with the joke).2long---I understand all too well about burn rate (those aforementioned horses put a dent in the monthly budget---add three kids, four dogs, a few cats...) My point is that it's usually well worth the expense to try to fix your marriage, even with professional help, then to go through a divorce. I used to say that the grand or so you'd spend on 20 sessions with Steve was a heck of a lot cheaper than a lawyer---but Steve's rates have gone up since then [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . Still---it's always cheaper than divorce, and I found the MB counseling invaluable.

K:I agree 100% (about the C'ing, not necessarily the ponies!)!Persevere! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Conan-Here is the Retrouvaille sitehttp://www.retrouvaille.org/index.html. I am not a big church goer either, there is only a minor amount of dicusion on God and sacrament of marriage, and the program is great. You both check into a motel on a FRiday night and spend a weekend in various exercises and dialog skills. It is not an encounter group where you have to speak in front of everyone, it has short presentations then the couples go back to their rooms. I can't say enough good things about it. Perhaps you can get your wife to it without mentioning the church involvement or simnply say the truth that it is sponsored by a church but non denominational and open to all. It really has some tremendous healing aspects to it as well as skill sets fror the future, I wish they offered it in High School ! Regarding you ww, the only way I have been able to deal with mine quite frankly is to think of her as confused messed up and malfunctioning. The thought that she is thinking clearly and rationally is as painful as
it is unlikely. Sounds funny but I think soemtimes of Bill Clinton, a smart guy who risked everything while the whole world was watching him in the highest office in the land. For what we puzzled citizens asked, what a dope! Now we know, the world's most potent elixir. Think of all the generals, admirals, popes and company presidents who did it too and it doesn't seem so strange that a housewife and mother heading into middle age might malfunction too. I kind of feel the same way I would if a loved one got mixed up with drugs. I would know that it wasn't done to hurt me, that it was about their weakness not mine, and that I would be in a better position to save them then they would. So I have taken it upon myself, maybe I can "rescue" my wife and give her a chance at the kind of life she really would wish for herself, one of stabilty, constancy, love, and fidelity. The dream is that someday your wife and mine will look back and thank us. Hang in there and stay in touch.Jack

Jack, thanks for the site, but thanks more for your parting words. That was really insightful. Damn, you are a smart guy. Any chance you live in the Chicago area, I would like to take you out for a beer. LOL

Conan-I appreciated your advice last week very much as well, and would love to have a beer with you but am in California, rats! Let me know how you Retrovaille if you go. I am going to mention this site at my next meeting, I think it has been great to be able to share these thoughts with people in the same boat, but I'd still like to have that beer.Jack

I looked at the site today and then wrote an email to my W seeing if she will go. I will let you know how it goes. As an aside, she decided today that she didn't want to do the MB questionaire again like we talked about doing. We were going to discuss it Thursday night. She said she doesn't know what she wants, but shw did mention that although affection she had on her old questionaire that it wasn't a need of hers now and she really didn't want to be touched. This is odd because I have been doing a very good job of holding her hand and putting my arm around her when we are together.I think she may be withdrawing from me in favor of the OM. I'm pretty sure she had promised him in the past that she would avoid having sex with me... now that is cold. For once in my life having no sex with my W is OK with me (I'm afraid of catching something or "being there" shortly after he was... yuck).

Conan-Maybe it would help convince your W that the initial weekend is a great way to take a guided tour of marriage recovery in a non-threatening way with other nice people who have either done it already or who are interested in finding a solution, the solution might very well be to end it but either way the weekend is a great way to move things forward to a decision point one way or the other. From a strictly what is best for Conan point of view, I think the program has a way of smoking out the fakers, it would be beyond diabolical for anyone to go through it and return to an affair. Not that it has never happened but it is one unlikely and two if it did you would know all you need to know and I think could leave the marriage in a better mind.Jack

Excellent point... my thoughts exactly. I also was thinking that it will be very interesting to see her reaction and openess to the idea. Remember, she has presented herself to me as the angel who has ended all contact with OM.

Jack, you stated:"From a strictly what is best for Conan point of view, I think the program has a way of smoking out the fakers, it would be beyond diabolical for anyone to go through it and return to an affair. Not that it has never happened but it is one unlikely and two if it did you would know all you need to know and I think could leave the marriage in a better mind."Can you expand on this? How does the program do that?

Spacecase ,Sure thing will do my best to expand, the essence of the program from my experience, and I am not affiliated with it, is honesty. Couples exchange their thoughts and feelings in response to defined instructions and in a controlled setting. It starts off easy and as you might expect builds in intensity. The couples there as well as the presenters have had the widest range of experiences from adultery to physical abuse to drugs and crime you name it. There is a whole lot of healing going on,you can see it in peoples faces and in their demeanor as the weekend progresses. Some couples take off and as the follow up sessions occur beging to drop out. You can almost predict who they are going to be, it is kind of "an are you for real about this experience, if not don't waste any more time" and some people obviously come to that conclusion, but as I suggested to Conan that has value in and of itself. I don't think thta completing the program is a gaurantee that your marriage will be saved but they have some good numbers going for them. Hope you try it.Jack

Thanks Jack; no issue with our being Jewish, is there?

Spacecase, No there was at least one Jewish couple when I went and I have recommended the program to another good friend of mine who is Jewish. He is "spooked" that there will be a priest there for part of time but I told him that the priest confines his remarks to why his church considers marriage a sacrament and some other stuff about love, fidelity, etc. He mentioned how he had a vow he keeps and a marriage of sorts to his church that he devotes himself to. It was totally harmless and not any kind of evangelizing.
Jack

Spacecase ,PS: I noticed our data is pretty similar,married roughly the same time, 3 kids ,one in college.Jack

Jack,
I doubt I could ever get my WW to go, (at least at this point) but I'm sure going to look into it. Hey, I'm here to save my marriage, and I'm ready to do whatever it takes!So what's your story Jack? What's your "thread"?

Spacecase, I logged on for the first time about a week ago, not too sharp at using a computer. I think my fits question was aimed at dealing with muy feelings about the OM, and I got a lot of good advice. Then I posted a draft letter about not being able to share my feeling of pain with my ww who has a good case of the lets forget it and move on syndrome. Got a lot of great feedback on that letter and then started wandering around the site chiming in once and a while, it feels good, and my therapist only seees me once every three weeks so I can uses more frequent support like this. My story is: married high school sweetheart after going steady and living with each other a few years, now married 25 years, three kids two teenagers one in college, ww started affair two taers ago with good buddy of mine whose marriage was coming apart. We kind of became a threesome,socializing and drinking, too much, on weekends, wife and I liked OM and had a lot of poor Dave conversations along the lines of how coudl his wife be so mean etc. A few months ago I accidenally discovered both my wife and dave lying about there whereabouts one afternoon and confronted my wife. I was and still am in a state of shock, belivfe you me my wife was the vey last person on earth I would have expected to do this, and Dave was a guy I trusted completely. Anyway wife ended it on the spot, no conatct excepta couple of overtures by Dave which were rebuffed. I went into full gear trying to save marrige, as much as I could barely stand the thought of what happened, I knew I loved ww and wanted to keep my family intact. The scandal in our community would have been ghastly also. So on DDAy I told ww we were going make it, recover, and go on, and she said that was what she wanted. Retrovaille was a graet first step, we are in counseling too, and I have my own therapist, and of course you folks! I don't know how normal these aspects are but some of the things I consider most confusing to me are, first that my wife appeared to be very much in love with me throughout the whole time of the A, our sex life was sensational, we traveled, enjoyed family time, and entertained our friends including Dave, we seemed to have it made. Wife say she told the OM she loved me, could never leave me, and that I was the best lover. Told a close friend of hers who later told me, the same thing. Second was the amount of time the three of us spent together. Seemed to me that if you were carrying on with H's friend, or if you were the OM you would keep a distance. Unfortunately this aspect seems cruel to me now and impedes my recovery. But in a strange way I think they both needed me to do it, I can't figure out their thinking. WW said once. "I didn't want to exclude you." Haven't spoken to Dave, the OM. So it was bizarre. After all the reading I have done the nearest I can figure is that the whole recipe was there, ww was a quiet type who let resentment build, I was a let her alone type as long as we were together this long and the sex was great we must be in love, and Dave was needy and selfish, not to mention attractive. So I am plugging way, I think we are doing pretty damn well, I have the same fears as everyone else but I like to believe the stuff I read that says in the end your marriage will be better and stronger. I am on anti depressants and have cut down on the drinking and am hopeful. Thank for your interest and support.Jack

Jack,Just so you don't feel particularly screwed by your WW... my WW and friend also spent lots of time with me. My first D-day occurred on a night when we were all suppossed to go out to dinner together!! I even recall my WW getting mad at me because I treated the OM coldly one night a couple days prior to D-day No.1 when I had heavily suspected the A, but did not have proof yet. The OM came over with a few beers and was acting like sooo much my best friend... how the hell can people do this?!! How could my WW yell at me for being an anti-social guy when she knew she was having an A with OM?I really think they must have a serious screw loose or get off on the fact that they can pull it off right under your nose. Either way it is sick and very painful to deal with. Jack, I wish you the best of luck with your situation and hope your WW never goes back to this guy the way my WW has.

Sorry Conan, it feels like Jack and I hijacked your thread here, but I guess we're all in similar boats, so I hope all of it is useful to you as well.I cannot imagine the pain of the OM being a friend, especially a close friend! Wow!You guys are doing well, doing the right things, and my best wishes to both of you. I've gotten a lot of insight for myself from this and other threads, and I sincerely appreciate it.

Conan, Oh I feel screwed all right,still have plenty of anger and numbing kind of pain. Sometimes I'll look at my wife and just think what a monster. And the friend, well you've seen what torture that is. I can understand affairs and accept that they happen, but sitting around the dinner table knowing all the while you are going to see your friend's wife the next day is just so sick to me I can't get it. The delight they must have had at my expense winking and whispering etc just haunts me now. At least Bill Clinton didn't ask Monica to accompany him and Hillary on Air Force One.Jack

Jack,That feeling that they really "pulled one over on you" is so painful, I know. The fact that they are still doing it to me is terrible. When I caught them the first time they were discussing how hard it was going to be for them to act nice when we were all together at dinner... yuck!You hit the nail on the head when you said it was SICK!

Jack,Very interesting development tonight. My WW says she wants to go the retreat weekend, but wants to do it sooner than July. This seems very encouraging... maybe things have soured with OM.The odd thing is that I also just found out that she must have discovered the GPS tracking device I had put into her car and removed it. The PI's are stunned and say this has never happened in dozens of other cases. They think it would have taken an expert or a very diligent person looking for the exact thing to have found it. She has never said a peep about it to me... can you believe that?? I don't know what the hell is going on here.