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The phoenix has crashed and burned - I'm more shattered than ever.Went to pick up my son from college yesterday, and I thought it odd that my wife didn't want to go and spend the night, etc. So I decided to do the round trip in one day (600+ miles).My gut told me something was up, so I hooked up a phone recorder. Sure enough, WW called OM. They hadn't talked except for a run-in at the grocery store about six weeks ago. They made up for lost time. Talked in the tenderedst of terms, expressed that each other was "love of my life", and how they'll find some way to be together again because God's hand is in their R, etc. Also found out their A lasted MUCH longer, MUCH more intense than WW let on.I am sick - my heart is racing. I don't plan on letting WW know what I know right now. And I somehow have to act normal tonight at a birthday dinner in SF, then a wedding in Vegas over the weekend. Saw MC this morning alone for first time, felt pretty good about it, then afterward.....and I was so optimistic about our recovery. Thought it was real and true. WW could get an Oscar for her performance throughout this whole thing.I've loved and adored my wife, and only her, since we were 17. 30 years thrown aside. I am, and always will be, shattered. I know I'm not supposed to say that, supposed to keep hope alive, but to hear the depth and length of their A, and how, no matter what, their love for each other will never diminish, I don't know how this can ever be overcome.Please pray for me.

SISF,I think now is probably a good time for "radical honesty". Explain your thinking and what you know. Perhaps play her the tape. I doubt anything can be accomplished unless this whole thing is brought out into the open. I am not implying being spiteful, but I think the people at the church especially his superior needs to know before he moves on.Second, your W needs to know that you know of this contact. Frankly, I don't know what to say, but be honest with her, continue Plan A if you can, and if you cannot it may be time for Plan B.SiSF, you cannot change her, nor how she feels, but you can keep up your faith. It may not end as badly as you think, but do let her know what you know, in fact let her listen to her own words. I don't think you will need to comment to her about how you feel.Don't give up yet.God Bless,JL

Thanks, JL. My faith will sustain me. I thought we did radical honesty weeks ago. She answered every question, told me I knew every thing there is to know. More lies....deceit....I appreciate so much your advice. I have a call in for MC also. I'll let you know what I do.God bless you, too, JL.

Hi Sisf,Sorry to hear about that ride going wild again. Does it hurt more like a disappointment? When the WS and OP hooked up again (I had to live through at least 4 -6 of those times), each time it got easier to say no. Arrggh.... seems like they try harder to come back. Ok, so my take is that you use your past experience in this to make you stronger and move forward. With or with her. JL gives good advice. You have JL and Redhat nearby for support. These are good guys with sensible suggestions. The rest of us are just a post away...... k? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Take Care,
L.

Shattered,
I'm so sorry, I know how devastated I was as I found out the A didn't end, the contact continued for 10 months, the EA for longer.It's no comfort, but you aren't in a new A situation, it's the same one, just more lies.I think I'd play her a copy of the tape. It's reality, it is the consequence of her behavior.You don't have to decide today what to do about your future.Unfortunately, renewed contact and/or continued A is pretty much the way it goes for a lot of us.Does this change your hope for the optimal outcome of your marriage?God does have a plan for you, this A is not part of his plan, it is a wayward action of your spouse.It's rarely any comfort to anybody, but after 2+ bad years, my H & I are doing really well...and his A was long term, with a co-worker whom he still works with.You can't control your W, but you can choose your own course among those available to you...Plan A, Plan B, tough love, even divorce. You don't have to do anymore, it's up to you whether you want to continue to try to restore your marriage with your actions.Sending up a prayer for you.

((((((Shattered))))))). I feel for you right now. I know that horrible gut wrenching, sickening feeling you are going through. How horrible to have been lied to and betrayed again, when you thought you had achieved honesty. Damn,it hurts!!
You have received lots of good advice. Your W needs to know what you know. She cannot continue to lie to you anymore and she cannot treat you with such disrespect and deceit.
SiSF you are worth so much more. You have worked hard. You believed in her and gave her YOUR best and she in turn treated you like....well...
Know in your heart you are doing everything you can, and no matter what the outcome you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are an honourable man, deserving of honesty, openess and true love.
(((((((Shattered)))))))

Orchid, Lor, Alberta - Thanks so much for your concern and kind words. The A has been going on in one form or another for twelve years, over half our married life. The words on the tape were daggers, as I only now realize just how far their deceit goes.This new information expands the implications of our situation dramatically. I have a lot to think about right now. I now know the kids have to be told (I can't bear the hurt this will cause them), I know the senior pastor needs to be told, because I just found out that some people are blaming him for WW and OM's departure. I can't let that stand.Thanks for your strength and prayers.

SiSF,I think you are right in knowing what you should do. I would also like to recommend that you go to the Pregnancy section of this site and read ALL of UsedLongAgo's posts. His W had a 27 year long affair and while your situation is somewhat different I think you will hopefully see things in his view of things that will help you.THere is hope SiSF, but this is going to be a long run.God Bless,JLPS: Here is one of his threads UsedLongAgo If you click on this one you will see this long thread of his. He doesn't have too many posts so click on the sunglasses on one of his posts and then click on "recent posts" upper right side and you will see all of his posts.It is a painful story SiSF, but it is also one of great hope and deep love. See if there is something in there for you.[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]

That is indeed a huge discovery.
I know you will find the strength and you will do what you have to do. My thoughts and prayers and support go out to you!

Hi SiSF,I know how you're feeling. Just a sick feeling ... more lies, more deceit. I agree with JL, you need to play the tape for her, you won't need to say anything else really. The tape pretty much will say it all. I'm terribly terribly sorry. I know what it feels like to hear your spouse say the things you probably heard. I have been there. It's unreal, so hard to digest. I'll pray for you. Please take care and know you're in my thoughts.Jo

Thanks, Jo.You all are such a blessing to me right now. I can feel your collective strength.

SiSF,THere is something I forgot to ask you. How has your W been acting: just before you left to pick up son,and since her phone call?What you are probably seeing is the withdrawal from a very long affair. This may be her backsliding abit. Since the affair has been so long, I would expect that withdrawal would last at least 3-6 months, perhaps longer.The information that the affair lasted 12 years, is very important information. Best of luck this weekend.God Bless,JL

Hugs and prayers... shattered...Cali

shattered in SF,I know exactly how you feel ... I found out OM is the ghost from the past and actually it was never stop too. Stay focus ... remmber that never do anything quick while in the middle of hurting !!!. You could do it so far so try to hang on a bit and let it calm down before you make any decision. Getting other opinion or view on your action plan is good.God Bless you -RH-

(((Shattered)))May God the father hold you in his loving arms and sooth your broken heart.Pepper

JL - As I left to see MC yesterday morning (before I heard tape from Thursday) she hugged me, said, "I love you. I don't know what I'd do without you." I carried those words with me through my appt., right up until I listened to the tape.I did manage to make it through dinner last night - told everyone I was feeling sick so they wouldn't be overly concerned. Used same excuse to get out of going to Vegas for the wedding today. W left, said she loves me, will miss me, and hates to go without me. She asked if I was OK, I lied and said I'd be alright. When she closed the door to leave I broke down. I knew I wouldn't be able to fake it through the whole weekend, and she needs to be there for her family. I will disclose all the new stuff I know when she gets back Monday afternoon.Cali, redhat, pepperband - thanks so much. I don't know how they can keep hurting me. I've never hurt anyone in my life.

Good luck to you... I wish there were more I could say. Know that you are strong.

((Shattered))I know that in my son's case the thing that tore so deeply at his heart was that his WW looked him straight in the eyes again and again and lied, lied, lied. It was as if she was telling him that he was of absolutely no worth. What in the world are these women telling themselves that allows them to justify their doing this to their Hs?I feel so much sadness for you. I hope that hearing the tape tomorrow will jolt WW into remorse and real no contact. I do not envy your telling the church and the children, but it needs to be done. What a mess.Prayers for you,
Estes

HBC, Estes - thanks for caring.I've written WW a two-page letter that I'll give to her when she gets home. How she chooses to respond will let me know which way we're headed. I'm thinking I'll only play the tape if I have to make a point or if she refutes anything in the letter - not sure I can stand hearing it again.Told my youngest last night that his mom and I are having marital problems, but didn't want to get into details without WW here. He said he'll pray for us and gave me some bible verses to ponder. Pretty together 19 year old, huh?Took son to church today in spite of OM being up on the chancel. I didn't care - I needed to be with my church family today. I feel more or less at peace and ready to face whatever tomorrow brings. I know that God will sustain me no matter how bad it gets.

SiSF,Ok, let's talk abit. She told you she loved you when she left. She told you she wouldn't know what to do without you. Now consider these statements. They are probably true and that is why you are still married to her.BUT, I will repeat those time honored and often repeated words: I love you but I'm not in love with you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Heard that one before? Of course you have if you have been reading this board.What is my point? SiSF, the WS have very selective memories, which means that YOU were probably the love of her life at one time, and you can be the love of her life again. What I am trying to say, is don't give up so easily.I do think you need to be honest with her and you need to tell her what you know. But, I hope that you can talk to your MC and see if there is a strategy to address this.You know on this site many people have dealt with the WS wavering back and forth and even having the OP's child or becoming pregnant from WS. Even these marriages have been rebuilt.SiSF, hang in there. It isn't over yet, unless YOU decide it is over. My guess is that you don't want it over. SiSF, this is tough stuff, but you have what it takes to handle it. So deal with her Mon. be firm, but be gentle. Don't paint her into a corner, and don't paint yourself into a corner. Make no threats and few promises. OK???Come and talk, the people here will help. My bet she will be angry that you taped her phone call. She will be angry at everything because she has been caught and shown to be liar. No one likes this and it hurts. Many people when they are hurt will be angry and try to shift blame.Just let it flow SiSF, once she has blown herself out, just look at her, tell her you love her and then leave her to carry on the conversation.SiSF, you can do this. God Bless,JL

JL - I guess my initial post did sound a bit hopeless. Well, today's a different day. I'm glad I didn't go with her to Vegas, because I've needed this time alone to pray and absorb all this new information. Rest assured I am NOT giving up. I know tomorrow is not going to be easy for her. Or me, for that matter. Since D-day #1, I have not threatened, not raised my voice (too much), not put demands on her (except for no contact, which worked for six weeks). I plan on being calm (I'm pretty good at that) and allow her another opportunity to come clean. I know the lies have to be eating her up, too, and maybe by finally purging everything from her brain she can start to see through the fog.She's a smart woman. I think she will come to understand that the lies will have to stop before God can dispense His healing grace on all involved.Tomorrow is bound to be an interesting day, to say the least! I am going to stay positive and rely on God's strength to get me through. Who knows - maybe He'll work a miracle tomorrow.

SiSF,You said something that set off bells in my head. You said you will give her a chance to come clean.When you said this: I envision you asking, "Do you have something else to tell me?"Man I hate that. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You see if you know what has been said tell her, don't play the I'll give you a chance to come clean thing. I find it very annoying and so would she is my guess. It will raise up her defenses and her protectiveness.Tell her what you KNOW. And then let her do the talking, don't ask much. Just tell her what you know and ask what she feels the situation really is. And let her talk. When she stops, don't say anything, let your silence do the talking. You will very likely get more information that way. And you haven't attacked her and put her on the defensive.Glad to hear you have calmed down, but don't be afraid to let her see your emotions. I think sometimes people can appear more calm than they should. The trick is not to lose control of your emotions to the extent that you miss important information from her: either verbal or by visual clues. Must go, I do hope things work out as you hope tomorrow. Hang in there SiSF.God Bless,JL

Shattered there is another individual here that has gone thru a very, very similar experience like yours and I beleive that his input can help give you some strength in this most difficult time. I posted a thread and he responded saying that as soon as he can he will be posting his comments to you. So hang in there.Joe

TMCM - thanks for looking out for me.JL - Guess I should clarify. In the letter, I detailed all the things I heard on the tape that concerned me. When I said, "allow her another opportunity to come clean", I meant to see if there was anything else she needed to tell me that I didn't already know (any other OMs, etc). I'm not into playing head games - I know they usually backfire. And hopefully she'll feel safe to open up more, as I actually was holding her in my arms when she first told me of her affair. I stayed quiet and just held her while she talked. Really hard to do, but she thanked me later for handling it that way. Just wish she had divulged everything then so we wouldn't have to have round 2. Oh, well...Thanks as always for your concern and good advice.

SiSF,Good, I am glad I misunderstood. You are a good man SiSF. I think your strength will help your W and you to get this marriage back on track.God Bless,JL

Thanks for the validation, JL. I know I'm a better man than OM is. He actually slipped up on the tape. When my WW asked if he had told his wife about A, he said "no" because his marriage "wouldn't survive another one of these." My wife picked up on that and asked if that's what their A is, just another "one of these"? He backpedaled pretty fast and she let it go, but I know the seed is planted in her mind. By the way, OM's wife was an OW in his previous marriage. What a guy! Wonder if he's ever NOT had someone on the side. Anyway, I may probe a bit (gently, of course)to see if there's a way to exploit what he said and get WW to seriously consider his pattern of infidelity. I'll let you know how it goes.

shattered in SF,Hmmm, just another point of view ... You know this A will not last ... would your plan actions interfere to let A dies naturally ?. Would it make it harder for you to snoop in the future ?. You could win this battle but you might have a hard time to win this war. I know you are hurting soo much and you still standing there and waiting 'till she come home. I am 100% in contact w/ OMw helping her to plan A her H, it is eating me alive hearing my WW is OW from hell, she has learned 4 gifts of love from Steve and use it for OM !!!!. OM from love you to unsure to not in love with you to doing mean thing to his wife of 20 years within few months. I never these info. to interfere w/ her A ..., my WW tries to figure out if I talk to OMw !. I could win my war if my WW didn't filed. I am running out of time ... information from OMw, OM is very skillfull and it will take him about 3 years before he showed his true color. I was willing to wait but she will shut that door by Dv.I know it is hard, I took paxil for a while. It helps me out tremendously, I eliminated my panic attack and I could avoid LB'ed. Have comforts in other and take refuge under HIS wing ... you know their A will not last and will never work. Let HIM work it out and let time reveal OM's lies. File this information in your journal ... let OM LB'ed ... let WW repents on her own.Just MHO -RH-

SiSF:Got a few moments, finally!!You've gotten some great advice from JL and others so far. JL helped me stop myself from ending my M after D-day #2. I was within minutes of sending the fateful email to BOTH of them. I notice that your latest D-day is the same as mine!In my case, it was revelation to me after the fact that my WW had contacted OM and told him I know about their A. This from my W, so I don't know what exactly was said (through email, presumably, at least that's what she said it was). He works for her, but in another state, and his report was due to her last week, but never got dropped off. It's supposed to be mailed this week, or that's the latest story.Giving my W the benefit of the doubt here: JL has had to jerk my reigns several times in the past month or two, and rightly so, because I do have a tendency to overanalyze my situation. My W appears truly torn between her love for me and our family and her desire to remain "friends" with OM. She has said she loves him, by saying things like "I care too much about him for you to expect me to forget him" kinds of comments, but I noted with great interest a couple months ago that she said he's NEVER said he loves her ([censored]!). My W is seeing her IC today, and we see our MC tomorrow. I think it's time for us to shoot the damned elephant tomorrow, and I'm planning to lay it out on the table then. I have talked honestly about how I feel and what I "expect" my W to do, and SOON, because she has seemed to have been hoping that I would just eventually get over the A and she could then go back to her "measured honesty" nonsense and continue to meet with OM at conferences and work together the way they have been. She believes, apparently, that she can keep from ever getting physical with him again, and that she won't ever go places alone with him, but she expects me to allow them to work together and go to lunches and dinners with other people. I'm not going to. Too much has happened and our family has been too adversely affected. Your situation sounds somewhat similar, although her OM is much more available than my W's OM (though he still has family in the area, and so has an excuse for coming to So. Cal. periodically). I think JL's advice here is very good. Ultimately, though, you have to decide what you will put up with and for how long. You HAVE TO put up with your W's timeframe for ending her A to some extent. You can't make progress by being demanding of her. At best, you'd end the A by being threatening, and she'd resent having to "settle" for you and your M. If it's her choice, she'll feel better in the long run for being allowed to make it. She probably needs to be jolted a bit, like by telling her about the tape as JL suggests. In my case, I jolted my W awake last week by reiterating to her, using radical honesty, that I am NOT demanding she do anything about OM, but that I CAN and DO PROMISE her that I WILL NOT put up with OM in any part of our future together, whatsoever. No EA, no PA, no friendship, no "colleague." NOTHING. I do not care if that sounds harsh or like I'm punishing OM (like, what's with that? I don't hate him, but I DON'T like him either, and I have NO qualms about punishing him for what HE did to our M). I don't care what she thinks about that choice of MINE, because I *DO* care about our family's future and I am CONCERNED that I will get so tired of waiting for her to make a decision that I will LB bigtime and just want out of our M at some point. In short, I'm telling her that I won't enable the cakewalking any longer. She knows enough now about how this rebuilding works to know that, until the elephant is dead and buried, we can't START on working on our M. She also knows, or is starting to realize, just how much my performance at work has been affected by having to deal with this. I can't do this and stay employed and compete in the workplace indefinitely. DV won't be "fun" but if I have to "get over" my M at some point, I'd rather not have to wait too long to start THAT withdrawl (and the longer it takes to kill the elephant, the harder it's going to be to not get angry with her). In the end, I think your W does need to know "where you're at" right now, so she can get started thinking about her own alternatives and stop eating her cake and having it too. And keep posting to this forum. Particularly listen to what JL says. Me too, but be careful of what I say when I'm depressed, as I use my posts for journaling as well as getting ideas from others here. My W and I are very loving to each other right now, and it does seem she's trying her best to do the right thing about OM, but it's clearly not an easy thing for her to do (her A happened 2 times over the past 11 years, lasting a year or 2 each time, with a "friendship" in between) so her withdrawl isn't easy for her.warmest regards,

Hey, 2long - thanks for taking the time to help me. Our situations are pretty similar. The only difference in my wife's 12 year affair is that it has been ongoing the whole time. It's like she had another husband for half our married life! When she first disclosed her A, she said they were good friends at work (I knew that), yada yada, became physical about 2 1/2 yrs. ago, she felt like she was mostly meeting his need for moral support, physical part wasn't that big a deal to her, she was relieved it was over, no withdrawal feelings at all, etc. Based on that information, we immediately began work on restoration and recovery, and we were actually doing great. That is, until she finally gave in and called him while I went to pick up my son from college. If you could listen to the tape from Thursday, you would hear two people pledging their eternal, undying love for each other, pining for each other after being apart for 3 months, saying (at least from OM) that this R will never be over and "I know we'll be together again. I promise you that." And a whole lot more. Just makes you wanna puke - which I did, twice.The lies are catching up with them, and I know they're both still terrified of the prospect of their A becoming public knowledge. They're dancing on the razor's edge, trying to cover up their lies with more lies, which eventually will catch up to them. WW knows what her girlfriends would say and how they'd chastise her if they found out what she's been doing, especially since they all know OM, too. My wife has said on several occasions in the past that I was used by her friends as an example to follow when they told their husbands they didn't like the way they were being treated. They'd let her have it, and she knows it.Well, my wife returns in about 5 or 6 hours. I know we're both in for a rough night. I'm pretty confident I can keep my composure. Not sure what her reaction/response will be.redhat - thanks for the alternate suggestion. I know by telling her about the tape that the snooping becomes more difficult. I think that after this episode, I'm really not all that interested in snooping any more. I found out what I suspected and needed to know, and now it's up to her to decide if she wants to try to work it out with me or not. If they really want to talk/see each other, there's not much I can do about it except let my wife know that I will not be part of a 3-way R and hope that she will see contact as detrimental to any recovery efforts. I cling to the hope that she will realize that life with me is way better than with OM. I think in her gut she already knows that. I know God will sustain me in any event.

SiSF:Good luck to you when your W gets home!Got to run again. I'll check back when I can.In the end, this decision, whether to reveal your snooping or not, is up to you to decide. In my case, it ALWAYS resulted in a LONG angry outburst. After the last one (early march email), she started using her work account, so I don't know anything she doesn't tell me about contact. But in our case, she's starting to really recognize that radical honesty is my only policy, and I think it's time to bring the elephant up in front of the firing squad tomorrow at our MC session. If we dont' shoot it then, at least we can indict it. My W will know, in no uncertain terms, what I need for ME to stay in this M. I just hope that Kaiser's MC doesn't use some strange "plan" that allows contact to continue if they promise not to poke again, or some such nonsense. I think she's better than that, though, and hopefully won't be too gentle with my W from now on (she did say we need to get onto the same page, last time we saw her).Take care,

Oh, SiSF. I just stopped to say a prayer for you. I wish I was full of wisdom, but honestly this just brings back too many painful memories. I--and many others here--know all too well how you feel. I guess my only advice would be not to make any rash decisions right now, while your emotions are in an uproar. And antidepressants might help you get past this latest hurdle. I was crying constantly after dday #2, until I went on Prozac. Walking also helped alot.You are getting sound advice from the others. I just finished a book that might also be helpful to you, When Godly People Do Ungodly Things, by Beth Moore. It has helped me a lot in understanding the battle that must have been going on in my FWH. We are anxiously waiting for your update. Until then, you--as well as your wife and kids--are in my prayers.

shattered in SF, <blockquote>quote:<hr>I cling to the hope that she will realize that life with me is way better than with OM. I think in her gut she already knows that. I know God will sustain me in any event.<hr></blockquote>
Yes, she will in time but do you need to interfere w/ A ? It might make recovery longer and harder.God Bless you and pray hard and even fasting !. Let HIM guide you and let the Holly Spirit prepare you and use you according HIS will. I will check back later. -RH-

Thanks, P. I know you understand how difficult it is when the OP is a member of your church family. Brothers and sisters in Christ are supposed to look out for each other, but, unfortunately, we're all human and the evil one has a field day tempting believers.Appreciate so much your prayers. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

RH - I guess I don't look at it as "interfering" with the A. It's letting her know that I am aware that the A is much more than she originally led me to believe, that I won't be a doormat or be #2 in her life, and that true love is right here at home where it always was. She is very smart and knows what she loses if we can't reconcile. I think she needs this gentle shock to let her see how the compounding of lies is making things so much worse, and that she is letting her soul slip away in the process. She struggles mightily with the spiritual aspects of this situation, and I pray that she will eventually come to know just how damaging this has been, to me and to herself.

Hi SISF,Been watching your thread and see that you are getting good support here. I don't have much to add but just wanted to let you know that I think despite the odds you are handling yourself quite well. It is very hard. You have shown that you maintained composure during some very trying times and this is commendable. Most don't know how difficult it is to be told about and A while holding onto one's mate. It is such a conflict of interest. Just a side point. I did let my H know about some of my activities. He guessed about the others but I did not confirm. His wondering kept his mind back on his family and eventually he came home. By home I mean not just physically but emotionally as well. He still has a ways to go but at least it is in the right direction. That is all we can do sometimes, just show them the way. But in a respectful manner. They need to know (the WS) that our families are not a 2nd choice but 1st. Keep your values up there. JL and others have posted well. You are in the same area as myself and a few others. Sure wish we could make this fog go away. Take Care,
L.

Thanks, Orchid - I admit I'm getting a little anxious as the time draws closer for her to come home. It helps a lot to feel so encouraged by others who have experienced the same things I have, even worse.The ability some people have demonstrated to overcome horrible situations is truly inspirational and gives me so much hope. I pray that someday I'll be able to return the favor as a happy, healthy survivor.

Shattered,Does your pastor know about the relationship between your wife and the other man? Maybe it's time to approach your wife with your pastor. Matthew 18:15, 16 speaks about talking to the person who offended you alone at first and then with one or two others. You probably really need the support of your pastor at this time. Also, it may help to lift the fog if he is there.I really tried to bear this pain alone, but I needed someone else desperately. I have also been reading the book recommended by Persevering. As a Christian, I have really had a hard time understanding my husband's deception and betrayal. This book by Beth Moore helped me understand how hard satan tries to destroy our testimony and especially the testimony of church leaders.You are in my prayers tonight.

FSB - thank you for your prayers. Only problem with approaching our pastor is that he was WW's + OM's boss and there was some conflict there. Have to take this complicated mess one step at a time.

Well, I'm exhausted. WW came home around 4:30. Son was there so I couldn't talk right away. She wanted to go for a walk with me, but I said I needed to have her read something first. So I gave her the letter and left her alone. She came out about 5 minutes later, told her we should walk now, and we went off to discuss everything for a few hours.I'm too tired to get into all the details right now. Let's just say that, after praying my behind off all day, God came through big time! He is so good. Hope appeared on the horizon again, my wife emphatically said that her future is with me, and she wants me to help her figure out the best way to let OM know that the fantasy is over and he needs to start taking care of his own wife again.Praise God from whom all blessings flow, and many thanks for all the prayers and support from my wonderful MB friends. The road ahead is bound to have more potholes and speedbumps, but at least now I think we have the car turned in the right direction.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Praise God from whom all blessings flow,...<hr></blockquote>I am so glad you are hopeful and encouraged and that things went well yesterday. <blockquote>quote:<hr>The road ahead is bound to have more potholes and speedbumps,...<hr></blockquote> Hang on tight! It's quite a ride, with more twists and turns and detours than you can imagine. Hang in there, SiSF. You're doing great!

whew!I'm glad for you this is what she said, now for her follow-up behavior...keep praying.

SiSF,This is very good news. Very good indeed, BUT inquiring minds want to know. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] What has changed to cause her turnaround from last week? I am guessing it might have been the wedding. Am I close? Did she want to walk with you because she had things to say, before you gave her the letter?Take good care of yourself SiSF and let this thinkg progress for awhile. I am sure it will be up and down as your W addresses the issues within herself. But, you have done very well.God Bless,JL[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]

SiSF:WOW! Most excellent development. I'm wondering, like JL, what (besides your letter) made this change appear so suddenly in your W? My W and I have our MC session this afternoon. I'm hopeful that we'll reach a similar point (talking about how to break off with OM for good), but I'm not going to be too pushy for that. W had her IC yesterday, and was very cheery last night (called me as I was leaving work just to find out when I was coming home - nothing to say, just to talk [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ). But she didn't talk about her IC session, and I didn't ask, figuring we'd talk plenty this afternoon.Good luck to you, SiSF. Sounds like a major step in the right direction!

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <---------------------> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Let her know probably NC letter under MB principal is best for the next step. -RH-

redhat: Presumably you're talking to SiSF? Or were you referring to me? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

to SiSF ...The smilies is for you too, just sit back 2long ... let the situation sink in your W's head.-RH-

Shattered - It sounds like you are moving in a positive direction. Way to go for hanging in there and taking action. I'm dying to know more details - I guess I'm a snoop at heart! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Anyway - continued prayers and thoughts to you and your W.

Hi, gang! Didn't realize so many were hanging on for the "soap opera" update! Would have posted sooner but my wife and I just got back from spending the day together: breakfast, movie, long walk, etc. A little more etc. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] She did some thinking while she was away. She said she really missed me in Vegas and knew something was wrong with me. She said while away it hit her that her A was a friendship that went haywire, and that she knew her future was with me and the boys.She didn't get mad at all about the tape recording. I had explained in the letter what led up to my doing that, and she understood. As it turns out, the only thing the tape revealed that she hadn't earlier was the depth of their feelings for each other. Tape confirmed that the last couple months before D-day, they were intentionally not physical like they had been before. The twelve years was the duration of their friendship. EA and PA dates were about what she had told me originally.The second page of the letter was a list of ways I had proven my love to her over the years: from the day we met (6/15/72) right up through trying to save our M. I think that softened her up a lot as she realized that, yes, I HAVE always been there for her.She said she called OM because she was more than a little irritated that he was reported to be happier than ever while she and I have been suffering. She said she wanted to believe that their R meant something to him and she was not just a statistic. The more they talked, the more he started saying nice things, then escalated to the "love" talk. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] When we discussed things yesterday, I told her that it upset me to hear OM mention how God did so many wonderful things in their R. I said God doesn't engineer adulterous Rs, that's the devil's doing, and the only part God can play is in deliverance from their sin and renewing of their spirits. She stopped walking and said, "This really has been so wrong. How could I have been so blind and weak?"As we resumed walking, I went through some of the things OM said, like "You're the love of my life", etc., and wondered how many other women he had said that to over the years. She just raised her eyebrows and nodded her head in agreement. I then told her that I've said "I love you" to her alone, ever, I'm the real deal, I can be whatever she needs me to be, and I'm not going to give her up and see her life messed up because I love her more than anyone else ever could. Well, we both cried, held each other really tight, she said she was so sorry for causing me all this pain, and thanked me for teaching her what real love is. (Man, I'm gettin' a little choked up just typing this!) At the end of the day, I told my son that things were looking better for his mom and me. He looked up, smiled, and said, "I'll keep praying." What a kid!This afternoon, we talked about closing the book on the A. She said because it ended so abruptly, and she had adhered to my no-contact request for three months (up 'til the call), she felt like because the A didn't completely die out naturally that there was a need to bring some kind of closure to it. She felt the call accomplished that for her, and she says she has no more desire to talk to him. She wants to move on in truth, not lies. I told her that as far as talking to/seeing him, there's not much I can do about it. The ball is in her court to prove she means what she says, and if I'm ever going to be able to trust her again, this is a good place to start. She said she won't let me down again, knows I'm not going to put up with any more lies or sneaking around, and said her marriage is way more important than the friendship ever was. I then took the tape, destroyed it in front of her, and handed her the recorder. I told her I had learned what I needed to know, now it's up to her to show me she's serious about us. Well, that's the condensed version. I am going to be careful not to get overly optimistic this time until I see how things progress over the next few months. OM moves away in early August, so we'll see how things go 'til then.I've turned this whole situation over to God and I am trusting Him to deliver us both from this mess and renew us completely as the couple he made us to be. By the way, I've always told her that God made her especially for me, as she was born almost exactly nine months after me!Thanks to all for your prayers, support and good thoughts. I know with certainty that I could not be nearly as strong in dealing with this if not for this forum and you wonderful people."And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us," Romans 5:2-5.God's abundant blessings to you all!

Hi Sisf,This is certainly a good report. Not to keep your hopes up but it does sound promising. If your W is being forthcoming with her feelings and words, then the actions are sure to follow. Funny how our children can put in a few pointed sentences what we take a 1000 words to say. The prayers of the humble can move mountains. All the best.
L.

Okay - I'll stop crying now. Wow - tears of joy are flowing right now. I think there is nothing wrong with being optimistic - but just be realistic as well. Your Wife will need to be strong now, and she knows she has your love and support. Who knows, OM may try to screw things up, and test her resolve. Hmm. Then again, maybe not - after my H sent OW the no contact letter we didn't hear a peep from her, but there is no chance of them seeing each other as we are in Alberta and she is in Minnesota!!
Anyway - I think you have done beautifully and your Wife is one lucky woman to have you in her life!!

Orchid, Alberta - thanks for the kind affirmation. It's been a wild 6 days. I'm pretty spent emotionally, and physically I feel like I've just finished back-to-back marathons. The 3 months since D-day #1 has seemed like a year and a half. What a long, strange trip it's been. And yet, compared to many on this board, I've barely begun the roller coaster ride. Strap in and hang on, I guess!

shattered in SF,You are very strong in faith and deep love for your W, roller coaster happen in all of BS/WS/OP ... However w/ faith and love the ride is easier. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .-RH-

SiSF:Good luck to you, again!! Sounds like there's reason to be very hopeful now.

2long - right back atcha!RH - thanks. By the way, I really like your tag line: Give your absolute best such that you could look back 10 years from now w/ no regret.A great reminder for those of us who are battle-weary. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]