I suspected my wife was cheating cause over the course of a few weeks she was texting back n forth with this co worker.She was very free with him even though he has a gf, n she would say things like " dont sit next to the tv u will mess up ur eyes, come sit here" n motion him to come sit in between her n this other lady.She admitted that she did get very close to him when i confronted her, and said its cause of working together, sometimes till 3 am her him and another guy - and thus friendship grew.She promised me shed have a word with him n tell him they need to cut this texting and calling each other everytime cause she needs to work on her releationship and also cause he has someone in his life too.
Today she did that and now this guy wants to call me and just set the record strait that he wouldnt disrespect my marriage etc.
But i did notice and she did admit that she was close to him.But she says it was only platonic as she would share lots of stuff about their work together and also about life in general.
She says no sex was involved. But i feel bad like i destroyed their friendship or that he may be scared to approach my wife now. What do i do to make it right? I mean sometimes my wife and him and this other guy were workn till 3 am, and i was getting concerened about that, and with all the texts flying back n forth.Was i Irrational? Or did i stop sometjing i dunno. How do i make it right with him? If nothing was goin on i feel guilty

I would NOT believe her about no sexual contact. I would say that it most likely happened and they will likely be more careful now.

I would STRONGLY suggest a few things. A key logger on your computer...a voice activated recorder in her car (be careful as this is NOT legal) can also be used.

I would ask her to leave that job immediately AND submit to a polygraph test.

I would bet the house that she is lying.

If she was lying why would she tell him they need to stop calln n textn so much now? That onlye leaves chatting as the only communication line n she cant do that at work only when shes home.
She says he was surprised cause all they had wa s a strong work releated friendship.So he wants to call me to assure me that. Besides she knows ill see the phone statement so she cant be texting back n forth with him n calling. She admites at some point in the last 1 month cause of workn so much n puttn in so much nto this project they did get close but never worked together alone, and she only felt close to share stuff with him (i imagine her marriage too)cause they shared a common project and many hrs on it.

I agree with MEDC. She is almost definitely not giving you the whole story. You did NOTHING wrong in bringing this to light. She is/was involved in a highly inappropriate relationship for a married woman, and thats IF she is telling the truth.

Your wife was at the least involved in an EA. These boards show that nearly ALL emotional affairs turn into physical affairs. If your wife is telling the truth, she still very nearly threw away your marriage. Do not apologize for snooping or exposing this. You do yourself a great disservice if you don't continue to snoop and gather intelligence.

There is a good chance that their "friendship" is just going to go further underground.

I will keep my ears n eyes alert but now its harder to communicate for both as they know they cant use cell phones n she cant use computer at work to chat. N they only see each other now once a week at church.

because that leaves a trail.



A GREAT percentage of affairs start in the workplace.

What kind of work does she do that requires her to work till 3 am?

She could be telling the truth, but saying that she has to work late hours with a coworker, then having another coworker collaborate the story is a very good cover for an affair. Are you able to contact here when she's working on lan phone, that can prove she's actually there?

I don't know your wife so can't say what she's doing. As far as apologizing to the OM, absolutely not. Regardless of whether more was happening there were emotions going on that made you feel uncomfortable that your W willing apologized for. You stopped(maybe) a relationship that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

she said she told him " we cant be this close anymore always texting and calling each other as i have a hubby and u have a gf" and he asked why? and then she said that i was very uncomfortable with their closeness, he said he understood that, n just wanted to call n assure me that nothn happened.
What i think is i probably stopped something from happenning cause had it gone n on it could have developed into something.
My wife works editing dvds etc n it takes hrs to do this sometimes.He told her he doesnt mind now editing this stuff at our hse cause he doesnt want me to think anythn.

If she told you that she was getting closer to OM then it was a begining of an EA at the least.

You shouldnt really feel the way you do. Only cause you have the right to bring up things to you W on any level and when you feel soemthing is off. That is the way it should be. Open communication.

When does she go into work> It shouldnt take till 3am to edit cd's.

Friend,

I'm afraid you are being severely gaslighted by BOTH of them.

They work together (supposedly LONG hours) and now you tell us that they go to church together also ... WAY TOO MUCH contact for you to ever feel secure about them maintaining contact, given their "admitted closeness".

Listen to these folks ... unfortunately we've already "Been There and Done That". You have an AFFAIR on your hands ... if your very LUCKY it hasn't gone PHYSICAL yet ... but its coming.

You need to establish a firm boundary with your WW (wayward wife) and insist on NO CONTACT for life between these two. That means that at least one of them will have to find a new employer and a new church.

... and NO CONTACT means just that ... NO CONTACT FOR LIFE ... no texts, no calls, no signing in the choir together, no lingering glances across the congregation ... NO FRIGGIN CONTACT, PERIOD!!!

Bring this up to her TONIGHT and check her reaction ... if she goes ballistic ... you have a bigger problem than you know about.

GOOD LUCK!!!

No it was last week of rehearsalsn shes producer for theatrical plays n she was going in after work at 7 pm

First off there should be no reason to go to work after hrs. What can be done will be done in day work hrs. Unless of coarse you work the graveyard or night shift.

Secondly I agree with MyRev. NC needs to go full force.

Prior to being a BS, I would just let statements like that fly by without giving them a second thought as to what is ACTUALLY being said. Now, they don't pass by so easily.

Notice how your W suggested that YOU were uncomfortable with their closeness, so they would have to break it off? Notice nothing was mentioned about how she felt about it?

A M'd woman who was really protecting her M would be uncomfortable if any guy, single or otherwise, was spending so much time calling and texting her.

Not only was your W NOT protecting your M, she was subtly hinting to the OM that she would prefer the texts and calls to continue, that it's only because of you she asked him to stop (and I'm betting that she's secretly hoping that he would continue. My FWW did!).

No they were meeting after work hrs cause thats when u can get everyone involved in the show. Kids n adult actors in the cast, n then after the rehearsals that final week before the show on sunday she worked from 930 pm ( after rehearsals) to 2 am n 3 am. But she tells me now that shes told the management that they need to do more frequent rehearsals n not wait till last minute.One of the three nights she left at 230 am i called her n she was leaving n i could here talking to the two other guys n telling them to lock up, they were remeaining to carry on working on the dvd n other aspects.
But i do believe that most EA's develop at the work place cause of proximity. I dont think any sex was involved as it was just the last 2 weeks that were intense

GFORCE,

Look at it this way ... you came here looking for something that you didn't understand. You didn't understand it, but your gut told you that you didn't like it.

By the time you found this information, your gut was likely doing flip-flops over this "closeness" that your WW was sharing with another man.

Don't let these two gaslight you into believing something that your gut is telling you just the opposite. You wouldn't be here posting, if you believed that this was innocent.

We see a lot of Betrayed Husband's (BH's) come through here, and I've yet to hear the first one say that they wished they would have just believed their WW, and not taken any actions to protect their marriage (M).

Waywards are master manipulators ... its what they do. Don't fall for their bullsh1t ... BOTH of them are LYING to you.

Yes when she told me she mentioned that i was the one uncomfortable i was taken aback cause the plan was for her to go tell him " we need to lay off too many calls n texts cause u have someone n i have someone and i need to work on my marriage to make it work and i admit we we got close cause you know as i told you me n hubby were havn problems but i need to work on my marriage...."

But i guess she said " we need to stop being so close "etc etc n he was like why n she said cause i was not comfortable with it all.

like at his place on friday, he left me to check on the meat as he rushed to the store to get some more things( it was 1 am) n my wife n the girls were in the hse talking. I noticed wife texting. N i suspected it was him. When i confronted her sunday she admitted it was him she was texting to get some tomatoes for the salad her n the girls were makn.
We got home at 530 am n when wife went to shower i notice he had sent her a text sayn " THANK YOU FOR COMING:.
On Wed last week she went to shower n i checked her phone n saw a note that said "OKAY" from him. She had gone to shower n left me in living room only 5 minutes earlier. So i checked outbox n did not see any message from her to him to warrant an OKAY anser from him. N then with the friday texts saying THANK U FOR COMING i was like its time to stop this. Thats the same day at his place when he was sitting close to tv watchn football n she motioned for him to come sit between her and another girl on the couch so he doesnt mess up his eyes.

We are just working on rehearsal together.
You cant tell me who I can and can not talk to...
Its not my fault you are not comfortable with our M.
Its not what you think...
Hes only a friend....
We have to work on this together there is no one else that can do it with me....


Heres what Im thinking. She told OM to talk to you so it would calm you down. BIG flag there. I say she told OM to talk to you is because she shifted blame on you that your not comfortable with all the texting and talking. When in reality she should be doing that to you..not someone else. Does she really NEED to talk to him outside of rehearsal???

What is she doing in some other guys house in the first place? Were you present? If not then she has NO BUISNESS BEING IN SOME OTHER MANS HOUSE rehearsal or no rehearsal...

Im glad i stopped this now cause if i hadnet, no telling where we would be in a few months.
On sun night i asked her " do u wanna work on this marriage" she said MAYBE. I was like what do u mean maybe?
She was like how we have grown distant n no longer have any shared interests etc n i agreed.Its when i asked her flat out if she was seeing this guy n she denied n i said i have evidence that they text alot n thats when she admitted they r just friends

Yes i was there at his place that day with her n two of my wifes girlfriends. It was a late night bbq. so he invited all of us and he made sure she told her to make sure i was there.

Well if you want to work on the M read up on MB its a great place. If shes willing to work on the M she will go full force NC with this OM work and focus on the M.

whats NC im new here lol

She needs to no contact meaning she can not text this OM talk with the OM have anything to do with the OM. She needs to write a letter stating basically she and you are wanting to work on the marriage and there will be no more type of forms in contact with each other.

Yes u are right. N i know ive made it harder now that she knows ill check phone statements for them to keep textn.Or calling.
It makes it harder to sustain an EA without phones to keep texting away stuff n the convenience of using cell phones to communicate in privacy and for hrs unlike at a work phone.
I believe they wont be able to sustain it.Im just wondering how within 2 weeks my wife had gotten into this EA. 2 weeks wow.

This is about protecting her boundaries. A man has been calling and texting her inappropriately. She's allowed it to continue, and only requested him to stop when you discovered it, and even then she asked him to stop because YOU were not comfortable.

Sounds to me like if she's not having an A, she's definitely open to one. All it will take is an OM to push a bit further.

wow u think so?

what surprised me is how close they had become in 2 weeks.I cant imagine if i was away for 2 months or hadnt known about it till 2 months later. She swears no sex happened n that only a deep friendship brought about by her n him havn similar interests n hobbies n workn on same project.

WEe had a talk with her today n she wants me to be involved in her intersts n come volunteer at the productions.

I think you nailed it pretty good here. Assuming there is nothing more here, there is still a problem as she's giving and getting attention from a man that isn't her husband, and it's pushing you away. You can't definitely call it an EA because in her mind, it means nothing and she has no intention of doing anything else, nor is she completely hiding it.

But you have to be insistent on this. She will tell you that jealousy is unattractive, she's hurt that you don't trust her. That's BS, it's not a matter of trust, as it's already been done.

Are you meeting her needs? I'm not saying this is your fault in anyway, but are you giving her the attention she needs?

started on sunday to give her lotsa attention n sunday n last night we have had the best sex of our marriage.somehow i doubt she had sex.

wat i dont know is if there was kissing etc. He had apparently mentioned to her of how i must be a very good husband to allow her out till that time of the night working on theater stuff n commented to her how he wouldnt allow his girl to do so. He asked her if i minded n my wife was like no i dont. This is what she told me today.It was apparently said one of those nights they worked late.

Seriously, are you READING what is being posted to you. I made a whole post about what NC (NO CONTACT) means a few posts back and then you ask this question.

We can help you, but only if you LISTEN and quit making excuses for your WW's actions.

yes im very sorry sir, forgive me

You don't have to apologize ... LOOK, we've all been where you are right now, and we know that you're mind is racing as you try to comprehend the incomprehensible.

UNDERSTAND ... your WW is having an AFFAIR ... she has admitted as much ... you just don't know if has went physical YET.

Go back ... RIGHT NOW ... and re-read this thread from start to finish and then ask questions about what you don't understand.

DON'T tell us what your WW SAID ... SHE'S IN AN AFFAIR, WHICH MEANS SHE'S LYING TO COVER FOR HER ACTIONS.

At this point, it's much more important to look at what she is doing, rather than what she is saying, because you simply can't believe a word that is coming from her mouth.

I know that's hard to believe, but trust us ... IT'S TRUE!!!

Regardless of what has happened and what your wife says and in truth feels right now, there is concern here.

Plutonic friends can turn into more very easily. Don't let the compliments of how trusting you are make you doubt yourself on this. A dangerous situation is dangerous no matter how much everybody says they'll be careful.

SF shouldn't be used as a determination of whether or not she's cheating on you. We enjoyed the best SF in years before, during and after my FWW's A. She said afterwards that when she was with me, she was with me, and when she was with him, she was with him. Simple as that.

k ill keep a look out

You need to do more than just "keep a look out" ... what are your thoughts about establishing a boundary of NC for life between the two of them???

no rehearsals after 10 pm. no unnecessary phone communication

Look G,

Your wife IS ACTIVELY COMMITTING ADULTERY ON YOU.

She and that doucheb@g are making a fool of you.

Will you stand up for your marriage or not?

You need to act now!

Your story sounds exactly like mine. I did not follow my gut instincts at the time, and am now paying the price of trying to recover from my darling wife F-ing her co-worker in my house while I was at work trying to support her.

Don't "F" this up like I did.

Listen to MyRev. He knows what he's saying.

Texts? cell calls? Once my wife knew what I knew, she simply got a pre-paid phone. She started a secret email account to talk to [censored] HEAD. Once I discovered that she had him start a bogus MySpace account under a fictional name... It goes on and on.

He is trying to "F" her.
She is trying to "F" him.

It's probably already happening. She will lie, she will tell you what she needs to to get you off her @ss so she can give that same @ss up to her boyfriend.

Don't buy the bullsh!t.

Stand up for yourself, man.

Do NOT tell her what you know. She will use it to go further underground.

I struggled for months to get my wife to quit her job so they wouldn't see each other, was on her like glue, and trusted that she was at least safe at home with our 2yo son. Well guess what? She used my foolish trust and had him come over to our home while my son was there to "F" him.

Boy was I a fool.

Your Wayward Wife is spouting the same bullsh!t lines EVERY OTHER WW spouts. It's called rewriting history.

She has admitted that she told this knucklehead that you're having trouble in your marriage? He will take advantage of this and feed the lie to make you out to be the bad guy so he can CONTINUE TO BANG HER! WAKE UP, DUDE!!!

Don't allow this same [censored] to happen to you.

Hey G

We guys are generally pretty dumb when it comes to crystallizing the problem.

That why its great that you have come to the right place for help.

Lets look at the facts as you wrote 'em:

1. Frequent texting.
2. Alone time - even though there may have been others nearby.
3. Talked about marriage matters.
4. She changed the deal when speaking to OM regarding NC: Effectively she said that YOU'RE wanting NC, NOT her (as previously explained).
5. The OM invites you and WW to his BBQ so that he can still get his emotional "fix" with your wife.
6. Your W shows deference to OM at BBQ. This is intimate behaviour which flies in the face of your concerns.
7. Why did it become necessary for OM to text your W after the BBQ? This was a personal call. Were he at all concerned about your request to stop communicating, he could have called you. She also appeared not to relay this text to you and therefore has proved secretive.
8. You W begins to find fault in the marriage. Thus starts down the road of "entitlement" that will justify the affair.


I hear alarm bells when they talk about marriage issues. This is a feeler gambit that can say "There are things wonky in my marriage. What about yours?"

This condition opposes "Forsaking all others" in a marriage. I would contact your pastor and discuss this matter with him.

I would like to know if your W became at all tactile with OM. She may have touched his arm while making a point or hugged to say "Hello" or "Thanks". This might have happened away from your presence.

MB'ers here will advise you to EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

Secretly contact OM's W and inform her of hubbies violation of telephonic contact agreement. He may have spun her a yarn about your previous encounter with him. You need to be ready then, to tell her about your W's sudden marital dissatisfaction and possible attraction to her husband.

Arrange a meeting with OM and OMW through his W. This meeting should be unexpected for him so that he has no time to collude with your W nor downplay the situation to advantage.

Now, at this meeting one need to find the extent of the affair (yes, it is an Emotional Affair -EA). Compare accounts of marriage topic. Enquire the extent of W's tactile exploration, etc.

Explain that a NC FOREVER policy is to be instituted. Establish that you would contact his wife if it became necessary. You might want to ask for a look at the nature of texts in the presence of his W.

Sorry that this post may be info overload (TMI) right now. By all means read the "Surviving an Affair" article here at this site.

This site still has a lot more to say. But later...

wow the more i talk with u guys the more i see more possibilities.This is all very possible i hadent thought about it.I spoke with him at 730 pm for 15 min n he assured me nothn was goin on n then he had to leave to attend to business. But 30 min later wife n i are shoppingn i i dunno why i suspect its him

G,

Check out this link>>>Not Just Friends

Take a close look at the Quizzes that are linked on the nav-bar. Try answering the questions for yourself and then do it again as best you can as if you were answering for your wife.

Maybe see if she will answer them for herself as well, but first, you analyze the answers as you think she would give them.

Also look at this from Steve Harley: What is an affair?

Mark

Nice quiz just took it answering it for wife n its like more than just friends.

she is supposed( if she gets someone to work for her) to leave for out of two for a friends baby shower(20 of them). She just mentioned that she thinks he will also be going. Is there any thing wrong if there will be 20 other ppl all going in a van.N offcourse being a church event the ladies will share rooms so there is no chance of adultery. But is there a chance of just them enjoying each others presence. She said " i think he might also be going."

You keep asking if just a little contact is ok. The answer is still a resounding no. No contact means no contact, period! Even if they don't talk, just seeing him will have her remembering all sorts of stuff they did/talked about.

You are walking on a razor thin line. Read and learn from all the other stories here. You are downright crazy if you let her leave town to go to an event at a hotel that he will be at.
If she asserts that she is going anyways, you go too.

That is a great idea! Your marriage survived the game of chicken before, why not again? I doubt you'll get hit if you keep running out in traffic. Heck, the car missed you the last 20 times, right? That is a great way to keep the OM top of mind so she continues to think about him.

Hey, I know people who have survived Russian Roulette! Its not nearly as dangerous as we think... I think an out of town trip with the OM will be a good test of her trustworthiness!

The reason i put this scenarios to you, like the out of town trip is for ur repsonse. I want to get all ideas and suggestion son cheating tactics n i am getting them n im thankful.
I mentioned she should really go for this trip n that i trust her even if she went with him(luring the animal into the trap) n she said" oh i think they(him n i dunno who else) will be going too".
I wanna know, this being a church event with women from church there, n women sharing hotel rooms, how will they do anythn?

So what you're saying Mel is that there's a chance....

This is the best idea I have seen for a while.

Just make plans to go with her. Tell her it will be a special weekend for the two of you.

Bet she decides not to go if you insist on going too.

But first, she'll have 10000 reasons why you shouldn't go along. (You don't really know anyone like she does. You would just be board. You don't have to give up your time to be alone and do as you please while she is gone... Bet I can come up with more, if you'd like me to try)

Then she'll do a bunch of stuff to piss you off and if you take the bait, then she'll be going to get away from you while you're acting crazy. But if you can remain calm and stick to your guns that she is your wife and you want to go just to be there for her, she will likely eventually give up and decide not to go...
And if she stays home, she will be moody, sullen, withdrawn and a total b*tch the whole time...Until OM contacts her again that is.

OR...

She'll blow up. Call you all sorts of names and run off early to get a start on the weekend with OM.

Don't take my word for it, play it out and see what happens.

Anybody want to start a pool?

Oh, and the church thing? Seen way too many affairs that started in church for that to matter. It was Dr Harley's pastor's wife's affair that caused him to begin marriage counseling.

Mark

If you are this clueless about your wife, I suggest you start developing bi-sexual tendencies since your wife is sure to come home one night fresh from rutting with her friend...with your blessing.

WAKE UP....your wife is having an affair. OF COURSE you do not permit any contact. OF COURSE an overnight trip is a ridiculous idea.

WAKE UP....read what is being written to you...or develop a taste for men.

If this hasnt been answered yet.... Honestly WHat do you think???? If you tell her that and if hes going boom you have a full A going right there WITH YOUR PERMISSION. He doesnt need to be going to a baby shower... If its church ladies then y is he going???

GForce,

Because this is a church activity does NOT make it "affair-free safe".

My uncle was a minister. He was having an affair with the church organist (no pun intended ), while my Aunt, his W, sat in the front row pew with their children. When my Aunt took his clerical robe to the cleaners she found that the notes he & this woman were passing during the church service were NOT about the next song.

GForce, you MAY be right. It MIGHT not be a PA (physical affair) yet. But it seriously DOES sound like an EA (emotional affair). Those red flags are flapping LOUD! Listen to them!!

Tell us alittle about you & your W (wife). How long have you been married? How old are you both? Kids? How was the marriage before your suspicions?

Well married 2 yrs.No kids. Marriage was good n okay before this.She had mentioned to me about this trip two days ago.So i spoke with her n told her its okay.She says she needs someone to work for her cause if she doesnt find someone then she will not be going.So imentioned that i trust her n i believe nothn is going on with her n him.I said even if he is going, she can go with him, n she said " i think they(him n i dunno who else)will be going too.Its a surprise baby shower for a sister of a lady from our church.My wife is going cause she grew up with the lady who is giving birth.My wife says its 20 ppl going n they getting a van.Women n men.Ill be out of town helping a friend move. But thats all dependent on if she gets a replacement at work.If she doesnt then shes home all weekend.Im just luring her into a trap , not that im naive.So dunno if she will go or remain here

I said nearly the same thing to my wife after I discovered over 150 text messages between her and a coworker. It just went further underground after she figured out I had access to her phone records. I still don't know if it was physical at that point, but it certainly went physical.


Why on earth would you try and trap your wife like this, rather than act to prevent the affair from progressing. Who wins in this scenario?

You are setting your marriage up for failure. Either you go together or she doesn't go. Is helping your friend move really more important than your marriage?

Wanna bet!!!

You are VERY naive ... and on top of that you are being played for a FOOL by your WW.

... and quit with the nonsense about it being safe because it is with a church group. Read around here a little and you'll see that churches are a breeding ground for adultery.

Furthermore, once you allow yourself to admit that your WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR ... considering that you're only 2 years into this M with no kids ... my BEST advice is to run as fast away from this woman as you can and start a new and better life with someone TRUSTWORTHY.

We can't MAKE you do anything, but there was a reason that you sought out advice from an infidelity forum. QUIT listening to your heart, and start paying attention to what your GUT is telling you ... it is by far the better barometer of what's going on.

Yeah sure let her go.. and if the OM is in the group probally expect something to happien.

You shouldnt lure someone you love into a trap. Thats not love. Thats stupidity.

Open up your eyes. Shes found another male to do things with. She isnt doing them with you. Would she like you going off to the club every night by yourself with all the pretty ladies there tempting you? I dont think so....

She has sought out another male companion to do things with. YOU should be that male companion not the OM. You are allowing her to be with this OM. You should be going to the baby shower with her not this OM.

How are you luring her into a trap when you are not going to be there to spring it??

...this is like watching a Punch and Judy show!

We're the audience shouting "The bad guy is behind the curtain" and you're like Mr Punch, looking in all the wrong places, going "Where? Where? Where?"

Right now you have been outplayed and outmaneuvered.

Lets check an action replay -slow motion:

1. Texting/phonecalls is inappropriate. Why? Because it is private and potentially intimate, even in a crowd. Your wife knew the impact that discovery had on you.
2. She explained away her relationship with OM as a deep friendship. This just told you that she likes him more than you.
3. She changed the wording of NC. Subtle. The expression here at MB is that "she left food out..."
4. She phoned OM when she said she wasn't going to. Why could not Mrs OM phone for those tomatoes. Simple. Your WW wanted her daily "fix"
5. OM initiated a text message in direct opposition to your request. Why? His "deep friendship" is more important than respecting your boundaries.
6. He has gaslighted you by reassuring you that there is "nothing going on". It would be far more convincing if he apologized for calling her and assured you that he will stay out of the picture -for good.
7. She has complained that you do not involve yourself with social activities. Good plan. Now she can get her fix again when he participates in these same activities. Guess what? You feel guilty and let her go without you where OM is present.
8. This week-end activity is made out to be an off chance opportunity. Oh Please! She will make it happen.

Now lets look at you:

1. You are relatively new to marriage. Yes. You are green.
2. You don't listen too good. If you don't pay attention to us. How is it working out for your wife? Oh Yeah, she has found someone who listens to her already.
3. You are prepared to take risks with your marriage. Late night sessions, after-show BBQ, remote trips away. Frankly, this does not give your wife deep security, rather this devalues your importance of her.
4. Your priorities to not anticipate the consequences.
5. You are NOT meeting her needs. Like listening, admiring, validating her abilities, positive contact time.

...and now the OM:

1. Like all OM he has no baggage. No LB's = Love is always kept alive.
2. Common interests and goals with WW.
3. Genial character.
4. He buried you when he said that "He would never let his woman out so late" Buddy this is when you should have responded with a deep apology to W and OM, then enforced it. Ah well! Hindsight is always 20/20.
5. He is a close companion meeting many of her needs.

...and her:

1. Secretive
2. Manipulating
3. Dissatisfied. Even your SF can be to compensate for guilt with OM

My advice:

Temporarily confront OM and OMW for NC on the basis of your working on your marriage during this rocky period.

Conclusion:

I could be wrong but doubt that there is any PA in progress.
It's worse.
They are cultivating a deep enriching relationship that is being built up at the roots. This may take some time unravelling.

Very interesting analyisis. Im listening to what is being said otherwise i wouldnt be here.When i make what sounds like a silly naive statement its cause i want to see the answer from other angles, and im appreciating your responses. Like if i asked a class is it morally wrong to disconnect the lines to a family member whos been in a coma for ten yrs. Some will say yes n support the argument n others will say no n support it too. In the end you have the best.
Its Tue night and wife hasnt found someone to work for her on the weekend.Chances are very slim that she will.So she might stay in town.She knows im going to help my friend move to another state and will be there till next day.What she dont know is that im coming back same day.

Analyze this... an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

Do not play games in this area of your life. Don't set her up, lure her into traps, or hide your head in the sand. Do get "Fall in Love, Stay in Love", read it, and apply it to your marriage.

I don't think you really understand what you are up against here. You have been married two years. It is not coincidence that most affairs don't make it past the two year mark. See, around two years, infatuation fades. In marriages, it means the honeymoon is over, and the reality of "until death do us part" earnestly kicks in. It isn't unusual for a couple to hit their first rough patch at this point. If your wife believes love is the same as infatuation, she will be wondering right now if she made the right choice. She will be thinking it is her heart rather than brain chemistry leading her to wonder why she no longer feels the same way about you, yet this other man is stirring up all those feelings of infatuation she used to hold for you.

You both need to make some changes and set up a solid, protective barrier around your marriage.

If a WS is determined, they will always find other means. My FWW kept her cell phone records secret, claiming all the while nothing was going on. I subsequently was able to access her records on-line, and discovered quite the opposite. When she learned I now could see her cell phone usage, as I later learned, she went out and bought a tracfone (prepaid cellphone). Where there's a will, there's a way.


That's about as long as it took my FWW. It then took less than 2 weeks, after she acknowledges falling in love with OM, to when they were in bed. Thereafter, they were together having sex about twice a week. Once they fall in love, things move quickly.

The question is, is it just a friendship, or has she fallen in love with him (i.e., has become infatuated with him). Unfortunately, at this point even she can't objectively answer that. But, if she has, then now a bunch of hormones are being released in her brain that is making her addicted to OM.

If she has fallen in love, be prepared for at least 6 months of utter hell.

That's called, "enabling the affair". Stop it.


Even if they don't have sex, they are still together and have time to solidify the bond between them. Just hearing each other's voice is enough to deepen their love for each other. No Contact does not mean a little contact, or supervised contact. There is a reason for NO CONTACT. Any contact between lovers only serves to cement and solidify their feelings between each other.

Ur right Galoot. Guess what too? I have some good news. She did not get a replacement to work for her so wont be going for trip. N not only that, she is very excited about the prospect of spending the weekend n labor day with me n two of her girlfriends.OM is still going out of state for this baby shower.

"Real Men" do not go to baby showers.

I have never gone to or wanted to go to a baby shower.

No guy I know has wanted to be the only man to go sit in a room with a bunch of women during a baby shower.

I have never been invited or know of a man that was invited to a baby shower.

I have never known of a bus of 20 coworkers and friends to charter a bus for a long weekend trip to attend a baby shower.

Your WW was out to early morning. Wants to go away with the OM over night. This points out to what your WW is doing.

WW is doing the OM.

Well, that is good news. But, though this battle may have been won, the war is not likely over, so to speak. You must still remain vigilant in insisting on no contact. My FWW went through cycles, where she felt guilty and tired of the lies and broke it off with OM, only to jump back into bed less than a week later. She apparently missed him too much.

A good test would be to watch her behavior after the weekend. After about 3 days of NC, a WS will really start to miss the OP, and will get really crabby and bitchy. If she doesn't get crabby, she's probably already contacted him again on the side. If she does, she's likely looking for ways to contact him. (sounds like a catch-22). Regardless, one weekend of no contact hardly means she's over him.

Yea im very vigilant. Im keeping track of all details like when she leaves hse, when she comes home and keeping record.So ill go back and check this against phone bill.

So what is she doing this weekend while you are moving a friend out? Is she staying at home by herself or going with you?

I think she should go with you. Even if its just 2 guys moving stuff. Only because while you are away a Cat can play!!!

And i will be going outta state too sat morning till sunday afternoon to help someone move. So she will be home and he will be outta state.

No she will stay coz she has to work.

... and you know this how ... because your WW told you??? :crosseyedcrazy:

The Road was right ... does it make sense that a GUY is going on a several hour bus trip with a bunch of other women for a baby shower???

Here's what your WW was likely thinking ...

GFORCE is going to be out of town moving his friend.

GFORCE thinks OM is going to out of state baby shower.

GFORCE thinks I have to stay and work.

OM can blow off baby shower and stay in town.

WW gets off work at adultery thrity.

Happy times with OM while GFORCE remains CLUELESS!!!

No i found out that OM is going outta town from other women on the trip and as per last night he was still going.

Your denial is going to lead to a very RUDE awakening for you, I'm afraid.

Some guys (and I have been like this at times in my life, especially when I was younger) just have to learn things from the School of Hard Knocks, as they will allow no manner of advice or warnings to sink in.

Seriously what man would volunteer to go to a baby shower? Is that just me being an insensitive, typical male?

I would be very careful about going out of town and leaving your wife home alone right now. You need to call and make sure this guy is in the bus with those women and heading out of state.

Be prepared to find out that he backed out at the last second.

Guys im not in denial. I suspected something n uncovered it.Im just stating what i know which is:

1. Wife was going to go for this trip with the other 15 or 20 ppl
2. OM is going too
3. I know he is going from wife an dfrom other women going too
4. As per last night he was still going
5. My wife is scheduled to work sat n sunday
6. OM is not only going, he is driving the rental van.OM i have established from my cousin in that state will be going cause he is picking up somethings from him to bring back this way.

These are just facts.When it smells like a duck i will admit, but when its virtually impossible( like this weekend)i will say it.I prefer facts and im vigilant, but im not going to create a scenario out of every thing.For example if she goes to work n i go by there n see her car is there i can only assume shes inside working. Im not going to assume her car is there but she cant be in there, she must be in a hotel with OM having sex. If i live my life like this then i have allowed this to consume me.Im living positively but also on the look out.Im also concentrating more on what i was doing wrong. I wasnt giving her attention or being involved in her things. I am now very involved and giving her attention.Shes loving it, im loving it and its improving the situation.But if i dont concentrate on this, then all ill be concentrating on is what she could be doing.
Im not naively thinking everything could be okay now so let your guard down.
Im just saying in this situation where

1. He will DEFINATELY be outta town
2. She will DEFINATELY be at home

Then nothing will happen at least for this weekend. But its imperative that i use this weekend wisely to keep showering her with love and attention.

If on the other hand i discover that OM is suddenly not going, then at that point i can go back to the drawing board of suspicion.
I hope u get my point

I will not relax untill i know this guy is on that bus i agree. Im very vigilant.

If I were OM and went to the extent to go to a baby shower...I only did it to get laid.

If the chance of getting laid was taken away...I'd back out.

andrew is right...this guy is probably not going to the shower.

Im actually prepared for him not to be going at the last minute.If he does so believe me, ill help my friend move n drive back same day.But as per now she believes im going to spend the night there.

GF,

If your WW is not going to the shower anymore, and thinks that you are going out of town for the night...it stands to reason that she probably isn't going to the shower because this weekend is an easy weekend for her to see OM, with you being out of town for the night. I would bet dollars to donuts that work has nothing to do with her not going to the shower, and that you going out of town has everything to do with her not going.

OM is probably not going either.

If I were you I would brace myself, because this is a pretty clear cut case of them getting together while you are out of town.

Please be ready, and like I said...brace yourself.

I just wonder if:

1. His gf is going? Cause i dont see how he can be gone friday, saturday , Sunday and retirn Monday night and leave her alone( they live together) all labor day weekend.

2. If other men are going too?

a) if his gf is going then that would completely eliminate anything that would have happened unless it was a threesome.

Yes im ready.Im keeping my ears to the ground cause i wanna know he is on that bus. If he stays in town then id suspect that once im outta state helpn my buddy move, then they assuming im gone for saturday night, could plan something.Now the only way ill know is to do as im planning. To come back.
Ill find out what time shes working untill and plan my return for several hrs after that.Like if work is out at 6 pm then ill be home at 9 pm .

No i was also wondering what man goes to a baby shower.But i can only answer this if i know if there were other males going and if i know if his girlfriend was going.

I'm not very familiar with your sitch. Does OM's girlfriend know? Because if she does know...then she would most likely not be letting OM go out of town with your WW.

first of all how do u know she will have to work till 6?.. i mean its saturday so why work till that late? did she tell u that? or do u know for sure? Just that if this was under normal circumstances i would understand. But believe me and everyone on this board who have been through it. Do not believe anythign ur wife says to u at this point unless u know for sure. I hate to make u become paranoid but if she is in an affair then u have a good chance of finding out


Also if i were u i wouldnt wait till 9pm to get back if I knew that the other man was not on the bus. I would be back wayyy before that and then just wait it out near the house or go to her work place to see what happens. I understand its not a very comfortable thing to do and it will drive u nuts. But remember, its better to know now and be free of this menacing suspicion or u will keep going through it for next few wks and it will eat u alive. It really hurts going through this emotional turmoil preceeding the DDAY and then finding out and then going through the stinging pain again.

I would also check her purse for additional cell phones, credit card receipts, or anything suspicious like hotel reciepts etc. Also a key logger on the home computer is very improtant, especially since this weekend she will be all alone. She may have stopped texting but chatting is not off limits. Also do u have access to her email accoutns? The key logger will let u know for sure if somethings up. The cheating partners ussually go to chat or email for lifeline when their contact on cell phones are exposed.

Like everyone is saying...she may be gaslighting u and the affair just went further underground. And once this happens it becomes even more intense becoz its more secretive.

No i dont think OM gf knows

Yes i know shes workn till 6 pm cause she works till then every sat. Thats y she was wanting to get the day off so she could travel.

Good point about being home alone this weekend n using the computer. Do u have recommendations of cheap key loggers? I dont wanna spend a fortune.

Why doesn't the GF know?

i dont think gf suspects anything.If this goes on further then im going to let her know

Please read this thread.

So, your plan is to wait until you walk in on your WW giving the guy a hummer?...then tell OM's GF?

Tell her about your suspiscions....NOW!!!!

If you think you are going to be like a super-hero and swoop in right at the perfect momment...stop anything from happening...stop the affair...save your marriage...etc...you are wasting your time.

Tell his GF !!!

i agree with introvert. U need to tell his gf and also to see if she suspects anything. But make sure that you two dont let anythng explode till there is evidence otherwise it will just go even more underground. Plus its not like the OM is married. He will just dump his gf in a heartbeat which will send ur wife a strong message which will not be good.

Just search for a free key logger on yahoo. I cant beleive u havent downloaded it yet. U shoudl download it right now. Has she been on the computer a little more than before?

Also u didnt answer if u had access to her email accts and if u checked her purse yet.

Also see if she bought anything new for herself that u r not aware abt especially personal.

What is your plan of action for saturday? Are u just going to arrive home at 9 or were u going to sit outside and wait for something?

Another important thing to remember is that ur wife is going to make sure that u r away for sure before making a move. So either she will call u or ur friend for confirmation that u r really there(the guilty always want to cnfirm becoz they know what they are capable of and thus percieve of others). Anytime she calls, u know for sure that things are in motion.

I really hope for u that all this false. But red flags are flying high all over the place.

She just volunteerd that " after work im coming straight home to rug doctor the carpet in the living room and entire house".That is saturday when im gone. So i asked what time she leaves and she said 4 pm.
Dunno if that is innocent statement or what.

This is all such good info, i love the 15 point steps to sex posted above. All the info here is very good. Its good to talk to people in this situations cause someone will have a point of view you hadent thought about.
Yes i checked her pocket book no extra cell phone. No i dunno her passwords

I know she will rug doctor after work. Its been months since we cleaned it.

well it all depends on the OM now. If he goes then i should say u take this opportunity go and help ur friend move and then come back that day, suprse ur wife with flowers and stuff and take her out for a good dinner.

Also donot forget to install the key logger today. Very very important. If she knows u can check her phone records then it is very likely it is online now thru chats and emails. If nothing pops up then u know u still have her and can make ur marriage prosper again.

slicker yea u right.I just wanna know now that shes cleaning carpet cause it needs cleaning n not cause of anticipation of a guest.

Oh n i didnt know u can get key logger from yahoo for free??/ WHATS THE CATCH?

no catch. Just causes some pop ups at soem time. Also just use it for the next few days and then delete it. causes computer to run a bit slowly and stuff.

Or u can search for a spy software online and install for $30 -$40 bucks. Those are good. And totally worth the peace of mind.

THANKS

she says she wishes she was going as the lady who just gave birth is her girl. But i told her we can go another time and see her friend.Shes buying a gift now 830 pm so that she can drop it off tomorrow with one of the ladies going.

Just seen her page on facebook on computer. On Tuesday( 2 days ago)between 8:53 pm and midnight she emailed him on facebook and him back about 6 times. Messages were just like this

him : Tomorrow
Her: what tomorrow
Her Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow what are you talking about
Him: Im at work
Her: work? Wow always at work huh? You and your tomorrows lol
Him: Yea lol tomorrow.


Or something to that effect. Tuesday evening i was on couch so she must have been emailing him as i was there. Can anyone decipher this for me? PLEASE.

To me it means im busy we will talk tomorrow. Last email was around 1253 am wed morn.
I did not see anything lovey dovey or secret or intimate.

she got a call at about 920 pm and she made a call out for about a min( i was downstairs but i heard it was brief) n i couldnt tell who it was too. But i came up 2 minutes later n she seemed in a baddish mood.Like abit irritated.Im going to bed its midnight n im leaving her watching tv in livn room n she still looks detached( she aint looking me in the eye) and she looks kinda annoyed.She got another text as we were watchn tv at around 1050 pm.Maybe im just being toooooooooooooooooooooo suspicious.

Did you ask her what was bothering her? What has made her in a bad mood? Communication.

The fact that they are emailing at 12:53am isn't intimate enough for you? There clearly appear to be some inside jokes there, too.

I'm sorry man, I know you want to trust your wife, but this has EA written ALL over it. I think your wife has fooled you into backing off. If you are insisting on going out of town this weekend, PLEASE install the keylogger. You can also buy a throw-away T-mobile phone or something that has GPS capability. Hide it in her car and you can track her whereabouts from online.

In the meantime, Plan A your butt off!

I asked her and she says nothings the matter. Shes got that kinda of irritated/distant/not wanting to look me in the eye/exhausted look.
Yes last facebook email at 1253 am but it diesnt show on the laptop history with other facebook pages etc meaning she must have erased it.

GFORCE, some WWs are smart enough to avoid putting anything incriminating in any written correspondence such as e-mail or text letters, lest it turn up in the wrong hands. For example, even at the height of my FWW's A, she never mentioned ANYTHING in her correspondence referring to anything other than friendship. If I was suspicious then as you are now, I would have gotten a voice recorder to hear what she was actually saying on those calls.

Oh, and I got at least one of those "irritated /distant" moments from my FWW too. It was her birthday, and I'd gone out and gotten her some cards and gifts from myself and the children. I got the "irritated / distant" look in return. On D-Day, I found out it was because the OM had forgotten it was her birthday and had gone off somewhere with another woman.

My guess is maybe the OM called his plans off.

If your W is emailing guys on facebook at 1 o'clock in the morning...then deleting the messages...she's having an affair.

Period.

What you have to do is...next time you are certain that she as facebook emailing him, talking with him on the phone, texting, etc...just simply ask her who she was talking to. If she says anything other than him...she's lying. Wive's who lie (even once) about who they are talking to, when it's another guy, are having an affair.

It's all pretty simple, really.

Think about the question you have asked about the emailing on facebook.

I don't know if you have told your wife outright that you want her to have no contact (NC) with this guy again. Even if you haven't, they both know that you are uncomfortable with their relationship. The fact that they are continuing their contact, while knowing your feelings, speaks volumes.

At this point, ANY contact between them is offensive in my book. I shared the 15 steps of adultry link with you, because it shows the little steps that can potentially take any of us down a cruel and heartbreaking path. More importantly, I shared it because it shows that "church folks" aren't immune to affairs and church activities don't make affair partner interaction safe interactions. Any time that they are in contact, they have the opportunity to deepen their relationship.

If you haven't, why haven't you told your wife that you would like her to end all contact with this man? Why haven't you told his live-in-girlfriend what you know about his relationship with your wife?

I know you told them to limit the phone and texting but I think in reality you need to tell her No Contact at ALL.If shes deleting messages etc that is a sign shes hiding something. All you are doing right now is 2 things.

1. allowing her pursue her EA and
2. Hurting yourself over this.

Put an end to it.

all i can say to u is too install the key logger asap. You will know everything!!!!..and then u can start ur recovery.

Facebook passwords, chats, emails...it will all be there and u will know everything. Forget abt deciphering the msgs, just install and get to the bottom of all the messaging.

17 people just left in the van.OM was one of three men.Wife is very sad shes not going cause she has to work and was asking me if we could go.
OM girlfriend is also on board.
So at this point im not sure if my wife was genuinely going to miss the fun of 14 ladies or just OM considering OM girlfriend is there?
So at least i know OM is on the bus and not in town, so when i travel out of state for a day to help friend move i know she aint going to be messing around.

since yesterday wife has been in this mood. Im home now with her n her best friend who did not go for the trip. My wife ordinary would be very excited in her best friends company. She is detached n not happy. I cant tell if its cause she missed this trip.She was suggesting me her n her girlfriend drive to florida sunday( 7 hr trip) morning when i get back from outta town n spend the day n night in florida n come back monday with the rest. N im like whats the point in going to florida( 7 hrs away) for a days vacation? This logic beats me. I told her its too expensive to make a one day trip.
All her girls from church have left n shes bored............

It took a while for me to fully appreciate that my spouse is my best friend. Thirteen years in fact.

Oh yes, the theory of putting my woman as number one was always known to me. But in practice, this condition had to be made real as a choice.

Your wife needs to realize that she has to forsake all others and choose you as her number one friend. Anything else is contamination to that relationship.

I believe it's OK to be jealous of this status. I think it is reasonable to express your sensitivity to impingement of that status. The fact that communication continues is a measure of her level of respect for you.

She and OM are enjoying a fantasy communication. Realities need to pervade their world.

You mentioned in another thread that you and your W had a heart to heart talk. What about another. Re-establish her commitment to the marriage. Don't let her railroad you into maintaining this contact with OM. Have courage to say that she is the most important person in your world and that it is unacceptable that another man can occupy feelings in her heart that would override yours.

If there is the least resistance to No Contact, call out the national guard.

PS. I wonder if your W suspects that you are posting on this board?

What's happening with the key logger?

Your wife is defintely in full wayward mode! Be vigilant and find out what is going on ASAP. Then expose, expose, expose. Don't continue to let her practice her adultery right under your nose.

everything alright?...u seem to have dissapeared.

Yes thanks. We had a lovely weekend with my wife at the beach.
She seems genuinely happy.

did u install the key logger???...remember, things may look good on the outside at times but u need to be sure becoz u dont want to be wasting all ur emotional energy right now. U need it for later.

Do not ignore the red flags, i can understand if u r in denial abt it, i was too. I saw a text from my ww to the OM who was my best friend saying...'see u later, love' and i didnt believe it becoz i was so much in denial of this possibility. And i was in the same place, feeling good abt my wife being happy for a day here and there and then going back to her selfish self.

Yes ill get the key logger soon. Ive just been swamped with bills.Its like 40 dollars i think.
I will also ascertain wheather his girl went for the florida trip with the group or not.She is still communicating with him saying its church stuff.She does so much work for the church and its all for free and she says he is trying to get her into the pay roll.Im like " the church should be able to see what you do for them, they dont need anyone to be advocating for you to them to get some sort of pay."
Very soon they will start editing the last show.I have said that all editing will be done in the house, so if its genuine work let them come here and do it here. No more editing stuff with him and this other guy in church till 3 am the week of the production.Im getting an itemized bill from the phone company and im going to install the key logger when i get some extra cash to spare.

I appreciate yalls help here

I think spectre pro has a free keylogger.

Hmmmm where can i find it???????????????? Do you have a link ?

Just googled and yahood it and the comp link tells me dangerous do not download the free editions of spectre pro.

just google 'free keylogger' and download any of the free ones. It doesnt matter.

What is the position of this guy in the church?

I'm thinking - This chap has a leadership position in a Christian? church and has a live-in gf.

Is this church liberal? or Christian?

Anyroad, church events take way low priority over marriage relations. Talk to your pastor if you are too sensitive to face your W on this matter.

Dang! talk to your pastor anyway. Can it hurt?

Just saw some emails between them. I saw like 30 and they were all work related. Nothing in them to qualify as an EA.

We attended a wedding on saturday and during the reception( we had sat on the same table with 3 other couples from church) she stood and went across the hall to the other side where there was a mini bar and sat there for 3 hrs with her girls from church.I was mad as hell.Everyone kept asking where she was? One lady at the table asked me " where is she?" i said " over at the bar" she asked again " doing what with whom" i said " with some girls from church." I think she was perplexed.My wife apologised immensely saying she didnt realise how rude it seemed( to be gone for 3 hrs).

Clearly, her motivation was such that her heart was more set on greeting her friends than meeting social duties. However, finding gracious ways of dealing with such circumstances is an on-going experience for us all.

Yes! This is an opportunity to analyze a situation and in particular, how to establish boundaries.

Did you go to her and ask her to come join you at the table? This was a chance to demonstrate that you were proud of your wife and delighted in her company. Alternatively, you may have indicated that you needed her support in fielding social interaction. Again, you might have shared that you felt embarrassed having her bale on you as she did.

Did you love bust afterward by expressing your disapproval visibly or vocally?

Aside from this, her actions do seem a little juvenile. How old is she?

Does anyone else here realise that you have become a better secret detective when you suspect infedility?????
I have.

Yesterday after work and we driving downtown with my sister and my best friend and my wife and we all talking loudly and she gets a call and its him and she kinda talks in a lower tone.And he seemed kinda upset and she asked him " are you upset?.." and then proceeded to say " ill make sure i drop it off tomorrow then." I asked who it was and she said " the people from church". You see my wife and him and this other guy are the editors at the church theatre thingis and apparently she had forgotten to bring something to church to give him so he can take home to go qork on - on his computer for the editing.
But this entry was erased from her phone.
Today she is free all day and is just putting resumes out at different agencies. I wanted to see if she would mention his name so this morning i reminded her to remember to drop of the whatever it was at church and she said oh yea i need to call and find out who will be there to pick it up. Offcourse its him.
Then this morning she was on this site.He works from home.
When we got to church we sat on the back pew. He was sitting 4 pews ahead of us.He then moved to the back wall behind us. Im assuming he was checking her out. I had coincidentaly sat next to his girlfriend on the back pew and i noticed she kept looking back at him. I dunno if she was suspecting he was there to check out my wife from behind or maybe just wondering.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK OF THIS?

http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/datingtips/86912/dating-smarts-you-must-have;_ylc=X3oDMTNhanF1NWZjBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMjAyMzcwMjkyNwRrA0RhdGluZyBTbWFydHMgWW91IE11c3QgSGF2ZQRzZWMDZnBfdG9kYXkEc2xrA2RhdGluZy1zbWFydHMteW91LW11c3QtaGF2ZQR6egNhYmM-

I dunno if she stumbled on it by accident.

AND HE TEXT HER AT 935 PM LAST NIGHT SAYING HE IS IN THE AREA WITH HIS GF AND WAS WONDERING IF WE WERE BACK HOME FROM DOWNTOWN CAUSE HE WANTED TO PASS BY AND PICK UO THIS WHATEVER HE WAS THAT HE NEEDED.
SO I DUNNO IF ITS GENUINE WORK OR WHETHER I HAVE BECOME TO PARANOID?
CAUSE IF he had passed by last night, there would be no reason for her to drop it off to him or at church today.
And i dont think he is driving - so he may not be able to get to church. So maybe she will drop it off to him today at his place.

What was the previous site from the date advice?

Can you get GPS for your W cell phone?

Look, you are clearly unhappy with the position. Dr Harley has articles here that explains the difficulties with situations like your W and "OM" association. Is there a problem that you cannot consult the church pastor? Possibly he can organize that she be diverted to manage other tasks.

I would still like to know of the churches position regarding this fellow and live-in gf.

My church would not tolerate this of any member who had a leadership or responsible role in our congregation.

As to dropping off the parcel. I would say that no unchaperoned visits are in order. Drop it at the church. Why start a habit.